Dadi's Guide to Imbuement

[Dadislotroguides]

Hello All,

Imbued Legendary Items are coming with U16 (See Pre-Patch Notes) and I wanted to get a rough guide out there to assist people with how to plan their approach.

Unfortunately the LOTRO Forums only allow 5 pictures per post and my write-up is laden with them.

Here is a link to it on the Rarebreed Kin Site

Dadi's Guide to Imbuement

As this has not yet been released to live (still on Bullroarer) there is much that can change. Any feedback on the write-up would be appreciated.

[Tirian-Hammerfist]

This is an excellent write up of the changes so far - thank you

[Silmelin]

Nice! Thank you!

[Coeprandua]

Your passives are fail and the bleed pulses legacy is a waste since bleeds get refreshed anyway. And have you ever heard of legendary titles?

Just kidding. It's awesome. xD Thanks for the guide.

[farmhand99]

You have put a lot of thought into this and thank you. First off I've been pleasantly surprised with all the work Turbine has put into this new part of the game. I went in with the understanding that there would be changes and for my main which is a Rune Keeper I believe they are mainly positive ones.

[Dadislotroguides]

You have put a lot of thought into this and thank you. First off I've been pleasantly surprised with all the work Turbine has put into this new part of the game. I went in with the understanding that there would be changes and for my main which is a Rune Keeper I believe they are mainly positive ones.

Wholeheartedly agree !

[Erlo]

Awesome guide!

One question. Anyone knows what happens To stat legacies, might, vitality etc. Can They be lvled as well. Like the Other legacies?

[danielbrown1969]

/subscribed for future easy reference.

thank-you

[Dadislotroguides]

Awesome guide!

One question. Anyone knows what happens To stat legacies, might, vitality etc. Can They be lvled as well. Like the Other legacies?

Yes they can.

[Vexendynamus]

Thank you for the guide. It still leaves me with many questions, but it is a start.

Can a player replace legacies on an Imbued Weapon? Do Major and Minor legacies still exist after imbuing? Can a Major Legacy replace a Minor Legacy after imbuing? What does it cost?

What happens if a player imbues a Third Age Weapon? A Second Age Weapon? Is it more cost efficient to Imbue a Third Age Weapon, a Second Age Weapon, or a First Age Weapon, and if so, what is the difference? What is the formula for determining levels on a legacy, locked and unlocked, before and after imbuing? For example, if a player possesses a Third Age Weapon with 6 desired Major Legacies and a First Age Weapon with 4 desired Major Legacies, would imbuing the Third Age Weapon ultimately cost more or less to get exactly the weapon desired?

How does one replace passive bonuses to get exactly the weapon desired?

[Dadislotroguides]

Can a player replace legacies on an Imbued Weapon?

Yes, via Mithril Coins. This is why I stated to get the legacies you want before imbuing. They may introduce other ways of doing this ...

Do Major and Minor legacies still exist after imbuing?

Yes, but no limit on which ones you can have after imbuing.

Can a Major Legacy replace a Minor Legacy after imbuing? What does it cost?

Yes, same with Mithril Coins (79)

What happens if a player imbues a Third Age Weapon? A Second Age Weapon?

Same as a FA, but with lesser stats.

Is it more cost efficient to Imbue a Third Age Weapon, a Second Age Weapon, or a First Age Weapon, and if so, what is the difference? What is the formula for determining levels on a legacy, locked and unlocked, before and after imbuing? For example, if a player possesses a Third Age Weapon with 6 desired Major Legacies and a First Age Weapon with 4 desired Major Legacies, would imbuing the Third Age Weapon ultimately cost more or less to get exactly the weapon desired?

FA is the best option for a maxed out LI.

How does one replace passive bonuses to get exactly the weapon desired?

They are passive and automatic.

[Vexendynamus]

Yes, via Mithril Coins. This is why I stated to get the legacies you want before imbuing. They may introduce other ways of doing this ...

If a First Age Weapon IDs with 3 Major and 3 Minor Legacies, it may not be possible to make the desired weapon. It appears the only way to trade up from a Minor to a Major Legacy costs 79 Mithril Coins per legacy, so that answers my question.

Same as a FA, but with lesser stats.

Does anyone know the formula? For example, one of my Burglars has a Third Age bag with 6 Major Legacies and 0 Minor Legacies. Am I better off making a First Age Weapon, possibly getting 3 Major Legacies and 3 Minor Legacies, then paying Mirthil Coins to fix it, or advancing the Third Age bag that already has exactly the legacies I want?

FA is the best option for a maxed out LI.

I would like to see the math so I can properly evaluate boundary cases. Can anyone help?

They are passive and automatic.

Do all Imbued Weapons of a given type have the same passive benefits now? Are you saying an Imbued Weapon inherits the randomly determined passive benefits of the original weapon?

I still have many questions but threads like this one are helping. Thank you.

[Dadislotroguides]

Does anyone know the formula? For example, one of my Burglars has a Third Age bag with 6 Major Legacies and 0 Minor Legacies. Am I better off making a First Age Weapon, possibly getting 3 Major Legacies and 3 Minor Legacies, then paying Mirthil Coins to fix it, or advancing the Third Age bag that already has exactly the legacies I want?

Essentially this comes down to whether or not the content you do requires the absolute best in the game. If the answer is yes, then the FA is the way to go regardless of the "cost."

A 100 3rd Age will never compare to a 100 1st Age.

However, there are times when a 95 1st Age (Item, not Weapon) may be advantageous over a 100 1st Age because of the reduced cost of Eorlingas Scrolls and Crystals.

Do all Imbued Weapons of a given type have the same passive benefits now? Are you saying an Imbued Weapon inherits the randomly determined passive benefits of the original weapon?

Correct, whatever passives they had before Imbuing will show up after.

------

It is important to note that as of this moment there is no way to replace a legacy other than Mithril coins. However, this is Beta and I am sure feedback has been given to Turbine about this subject. Perhaps they may implement another mechanism for doing this. I hope they do as it seems wrong to have the only option cost RL money.

[Scirocco]

Correct, whatever passives they had before Imbuing will show up after.

For class items and 2-H weapons, this means that you may have to make multiple FAs until you get exactly the passive stats you want. You probably don't want to imbue an FA with stats you aren't happy with, since you'll be stuck with them.

One question that has not yet been answered is whether these can increase in the future, assuming we have character level increases. Similarly, what will happen to the base damage range of the weapon? That currently is fixed, although the melee classes can use the DPS legacy to boost the actual DPS (tactical classes like LMs have a set damage range that cannot be modified).

If no new weapons with higher base damage ranges are introduced, there's no problem. But if new weapons with higher base damage ranges are introduced, are the base damage ranges of the imbued LIs going to be increased to match? Or will we be spending resources to increase the DPS legacy just to try to catch up?

[Dadislotroguides]

For class items and 2-H weapons, this means that you may have to make multiple FAs until you get exactly the passive stats you want. You probably don't want to imbue an FA with stats you aren't happy with, since you'll be stuck with them.

One question that has not yet been answered is whether these can increase in the future, assuming we have character level increases. Similarly, what will happen to the base damage range of the weapon? That currently is fixed, although the melee classes can use the DPS legacy to boost the actual DPS (tactical classes like LMs have a set damage range that cannot be modified).

If no new weapons with higher base damage ranges are introduced, there's no problem. But if new weapons with higher base damage ranges are introduced, are the base damage ranges of the imbued LIs going to be increased to match? Or will we be spending resources to increase the DPS legacy just to try to catch up?

I have not heard of any plans to be able to change the passive stats, although I think this is a great idea for a future update. Would be great if this was done via questing.

As far as the DPS, yes, that can be changed. Right now the hard cap for the main stat is Tier 20. I am positive the tier cap will be raised as we progress through updates. Applying Anfalas Star-lit Crystals will unlock tiers.

[Macroscian]

I have not heard of any plans to be able to change the passive stats, although I think this is a great idea for a future update.

I'd rather have them removed, with an old main hunter I just can't see one stat legacy extra balancing out a passive like 1300 morale. That system must be reviewed. Make the passives into hard stats only, like +will, +agility. And make them one passive.

It sounds very, very complicated to plan ahead for the new imbues. Also extremely costly! It appears to be all about in-game gold or my wallet? With 1100 game gold total, I can make 1.5 legacies to max (if I buy a store crystal of rememberance, otherwise that's another 250g gone), compared to someone at capped full legacies. Until such a time that I can amass another 5-6 thousand gold or find an additional 28 000 medallions, I'm at a disadvantage and with the have-nots, from being at an advantage with full virtues and long time /played. This means nothing now, since I didn't spend months in an orc field camp spamming HL RAID 18/24. Should I buy this stuff from the store? I am...angry.

[Dadislotroguides]

I'd rather have them removed, with an old main hunter I just can't see one stat legacy extra balancing out a passive like 1300 morale. That system must be reviewed. Make the passives into hard stats only, like +will, +agility. And make them one passive.

It sounds very, very complicated to plan ahead for the new imbues. Also extremely costly! It appears to be all about in-game gold or my wallet? With 1100 game gold total, I can make 1.5 legacies to max (if I buy a store crystal of rememberance, otherwise that's another 250g gone), compared to someone at capped full legacies. Until such a time that I can amass another 5-6 thousand gold or find an additional 28 000 medallions, I'm at a disadvantage and with the have-nots, from being at an advantage with full virtues and long time /played. This means nothing now, since I didn't spend months in an orc field camp spamming HL RAID 18/24. Should I buy this stuff from the store? I am...angry.

In its current form you need nothing but IXP to get an imbued LI to the same (actually slightly better stats) than a pre-imbued one.

It is Tiers 34-40 that are costly and we need to continue to give feedback to Turbine about our concerns with it.

I think we are need to consider;

1) This is still on Bullroarer and in Beta. Continue to provide feedback via the Bullroarer threads and the Devs can decide if any changes need to be made (I think we all agree that there are some).

2) In its current state you can get a pre-imbued fully maxed (tier 6s) LI to Tier 32 post imbued via IXP only and the stats will be nearly identical. I would like to see Turbine start the post imbued tiers to be comparable to the pre-imbued.

3) They might decrease the cost of Anfalas Scrolls of Empowerment.

4) They might increase IXP for Quests, Deeds, kills.

5) They might increase the IXP available on runes (loot drops).

6) They might increase the drop rate of Crystals of Remembrance and Star-lit Crystals.

Until we know the answers to the points above I suggest leaving constructive feedback via the Bullroarer threads.

[Scirocco]

As far as the DPS, yes, that can be changed. Right now the hard cap for the main stat is Tier 20. I am positive the tier cap will be raised as we progress through updates. Applying Anfalas Star-lit Crystals will unlock tiers.

I think you miss my point. The DPS legacy only exists on melee weapons, and it works off a base damage range. The base damage range is fixed for the weapon based on ilvl. In other words, the base damage range is equivalent to a passive stat.

The DPS legacy disguises this for melee classes, but it is more clear for LM staves. My base DPS is 807 dps, and it cannot be changed. I have no DPS legacy, but instead, I have a tactical damage legacy that doesn't affect the weapon DPS.

On live, with each new character level cap, we get higher level LIs with a higher base damage range. We are driven to get the new LIs because the starting point in base DPS is higher.

Suppose we get a character level increase to 110 next year. With that, we get new level 110 LIs, with a higher base DPS range than the 100 LIs we have now. Say, for example, the base DPS on my level 110 LI is 875, as opposed to the level 100 LI base dps of 807. There is no way to get my level 100 imbued LI from a base of 807 dps to 875 dps, so I toss it and start again with a 110 LI (which has to be imbued, etc.).

I bet the same thing will happen for melee weapons. Since the DPS legacy applies the same percentage increase with each tier (i.e., rank), the LI with the higher starting point (base damage range) ends up with the higher final DPS.

[Dadislotroguides]

Suppose we get a character level increase to 110 next year. With that, we get new level 110 LIs, with a higher base DPS range than the 100 LIs we have now. Say, for example, the base DPS on my level 110 LI is 875, as opposed to the level 100 LI base dps of 807. There is no way to get my level 100 imbued LI from a base of 807 dps to 875 dps, so I toss it and start again with a 110 LI (which has to be imbued, etc.).

My understanding is that there will be no new FA above 100, even if they do raise the level cap. You will need to get a FA prior to 100 and imbue it. This system is replacing the old one. All old LIs are "grandfathered" and allowed to persist; as is the system.

The base DPS on these LIs is changed by adding Anfalas Star-lit Crystals. The current cap is Tier 20. As the game progresses they will raise this cap and more crystals can be added, thus increasing the DPS.

[Macroscian]

In its current form you need nothing but IXP to get an imbued LI to the same (actually slightly better stats) than a pre-imbued one.

It is Tiers 34-40 that are costly and we need to continue to give feedback to Turbine about our concerns with it.

I think we are need to consider;

1) This is still on Bullroarer and in Beta. Continue to provide feedback via the Bullroarer threads and the Devs can decide if any changes need to be made (I think we all agree that there are some).

2) In its current state you can get a pre-imbued fully maxed (tier 6s) LI to Tier 32 post imbued via IXP only and the stats will be nearly identical. I would like to see Turbine start the post imbued tiers to be comparable to the pre-imbued.

3) They might decrease the cost of Anfalas Scrolls of Empowerment.

4) They might increase IXP for Quests, Deeds, kills.

5) They might increase the IXP available on runes (loot drops).

6) They might increase the drop rate of Crystals of Remembrance and Star-lit Crystals.

Until we know the answers to the points above I suggest leaving constructive feedback via the Bullroarer threads.

Beta time is good!

I have no doubt I can make my new FA slightly better than before, but I'm not fighting for instance spots with myself, I'm fighting with those who will have a vastly greater effect than I'm unlikely to ever achieve
They will have this edge from the start, immediately. Instead of running stuff I will be begging for runs.
Instead of having a half decent old character I will - by comparison - run around with the current game equivalent of an SA 85. I can max one DPS legacy, not 14.

[Scirocco]

My understanding is that there will be no new FA above 100, even if they do raise the level cap. You will need to get a FA prior to 100 and imbue it. This system is replacing the old one. All old LIs are "grandfathered" and allowed to persist; as is the system.

The base DPS on these LIs is changed by adding Anfalas Star-lit Crystals. The current cap is Tier 20. As the game progresses they will raise this cap and more crystals can be added, thus increasing the DPS.

If so, then we really have reached the end of the game, or are about to.

More particularly, if this is the case, then LM staves are a problem because their DPS will be forever stuck at 807. It may be that Turbine wants to eventually stop LMs from engaging in melee combat, but that doesn't make sense in light of the reduction in the staff strike and staff sweep cool downs.

At some point, the DPS of a new non-LI staff will be hundreds of points higher than my old Imbued staff, and it will be time to trash the LI. This has the advantage of freeing me from the LI system, so there is a bright side...

[Jinjaah]

One quick update on things mentioned in this post:

We are currently working on the starting points for each legacies' potency over the next couple builds. What you will start to see is the base value of each legacy begin to creep closer to the current pre-imbued max. The intention in the end is that while you may lose a little bit of legacy potency upon imbuement, it will catch and surpass pre-imbued cap values at much earlier tiers than in your current build. So expect these numbers to constantly be in flux over the next couple weeks as we continue to tweak and fine tune them.

-Jinjaah

[Dadislotroguides]

One quick update on things mentioned in this post:

We are currently working on the starting points for each legacies' potency over the next couple builds. What you will start to see is the base value of each legacy begin to creep closer to the current pre-imbued max. The intention in the end is that while you may lose a little bit of legacy potency upon imbuement, it will catch and surpass pre-imbued cap values at much earlier tiers than in your current build. So expect these numbers to constantly be in flux over the next couple weeks as we continue to tweak and fine tune them.

-Jinjaah

This is great news ! Thank you for the update

[Tarlywyn]

My understanding is that there will be no new FA above 100, even if they do raise the level cap. You will need to get a FA prior to 100 and imbue it. This system is replacing the old one. All old LIs are "grandfathered" and allowed to persist; as is the system.

The base DPS on these LIs is changed by adding Anfalas Star-lit Crystals. The current cap is Tier 20. As the game progresses they will raise this cap and more crystals can be added, thus increasing the DPS.

So there will be no LIs above level 100, meaning you have to buy into imbuement to continue having an up-to-date LI beyond level 100?

If so, then we really have reached the end of the game, or are about to.

More particularly, if this is the case, then LM staves are a problem because their DPS will be forever stuck at 807. It may be that Turbine wants to eventually stop LMs from engaging in melee combat, but that doesn't make sense in light of the reduction in the staff strike and staff sweep cool downs.

At some point, the DPS of a new non-LI staff will be hundreds of points higher than my old Imbued staff, and it will be time to trash the LI. This has the advantage of freeing me from the LI system, so there is a bright side...

There has been no move to create level 100 recipes for crafters - maybe this trend will continue beyond level 100, so you can't just use a non LI weapon - ie you have to submit to embuement if you want a current weapon. Of course this disadvantages those with off hand weapons, unless they make non LI weapons off-hand only.

Forcing players into imbuement isn't going to sit well with some, maybe many. Certainly not making my level 99's any closer to being played again at the mo.

As an aside I'm wondering if there actually will be another level increase before all new content ceases.

[Dadislotroguides]

So there will be no LIs above level 100, meaning you have to buy into imbuement to continue having an up-to-date LI beyond level 100?

From what has been said so far, yes I think that is the case. The idea is that these Imbued LIs are the last ones we will ever need to create. We simply continue to tweak and upgrade them as they release new content.

At the moment Imbuement is only available for level 100 1st, 2nd, and 3rd age LIs. The intent seems to be to implement the system for all LI levels (45-99) once they are sure it is working as intended.

Keep in mind, the Imbuement System is completely optional. You can continue the old way if you choose. However, the best LIs in game will only be achievable via Imbuing.