Bring back the Lorien Archers

[Pontin_Finnberry]

Before if you had no Reputation with the Galadhrim the archers would kill you passing through, I always found stuff like this in the game was fun in my opinion, an its part of the Lore, also gives reason for players to work on Rep there, i would like to see that again.

[farmhand99]

this is interesting and would be good especially since it keeps with lore. I would really like to see this in game or back in game.

[Waynard]

I would love to see this back, but I feel like it wouldn't work because the Bingo quest line goes into Lothlorien

[Nosdracir]

I would love to see this back, but I feel like it wouldn't work because the Bingo quest line goes into Lothlorien

Also the Epic. People often bypass Lorien and go straight from Moria to Enedwaith then Dunland, only returning to Lorien and Mirkwood for deeds & virtues.

[Pontin_Finnberry]

I would love to see this back, but I feel like it wouldn't work because the Bingo quest line goes into Lothlorien

That is true Bingo goes into Lothlorien, but could add note saying you need Acquaintance with the Galadhrim, just like notes saying you need epic quest to go into Moria and Mirkwood just an idea. but other then that i agree wouldn't work for bingo quest much.

[Lady_Lethargy]

Maybe they could have Elven patrols that wander the area and deal with intruders. That way you could still bypass them if you wanted, but with a challenge. This maybe isn't so good from a lore standpoint, since Lothlorien Elves should have eyes everywhere in their territory, but it would be cool for gameplay.

Maybe they could even make it so that the Elves give you a warning and provide you with an escort away from their territory. If you try to leave the escort before arriving at your destination, you are killed. To me, this seems more fitting of the Elves than just killing every intruder on the spot.

[cdq1958]

Before if you had no Reputation with the Galadhrim the archers would kill you passing through, I always found stuff like this in the game was fun in my opinion, an its part of the Lore, also gives reason for players to work on Rep there, i would like to see that again.

This was changed when the Great River quest pack was added, to allow folk who were in the 70 to 75 level range bypass Dunland if they wanted to do so without having Lorien reputation. I don't see them going back at this point, though there is a way it could be done. You'd meet Haldir on the road (currently in the game for one B. B.) in Nanduhiriion, have a bit of dialogue with him, be given a pass (blindfolded ;P) and dropped off on the road to the Great River.

[maartena]

I believe they removed it shortly after Great River was released, because it would essentially "gate" access to Great River to only those that would have certain rep with Lothlorien. It made a bit more sense when Lothlorien was the "final" end game at level 60, but it doesn't make sense anymore. Many people I know prefer going the Enedwaidth route over Mirkwood, and then just go straight to Great River at some point when they get bored with Dunland

This said..... I was used to the other factions killing you on sight in Everquest, where if you were a "evil" player, you could not enter city ruled by the "good", and vice-versa. So I didn't mind the kill on sight when I encountered those arrow elves for the first time.

[djheydt]

Before if you had no Reputation with the Galadhrim the archers would kill you passing through, I always found stuff like this in the game was fun in my opinion, an its part of the Lore, also gives reason for players to work on Rep there, i would like to see that again.

Yes, and you couldn't see them. The only way of figuring
out where the Line of Death was, was by finding the Orc
corpses that the guy in Echad Andestel wanted you to loot.

Before Southern Mirkwood opened, it was visible on the far
bank of Anduin, but if you tried to swim across, invisible
Orc archers would shoot you. Is that still the case? I
haven't tried to swim Anduin lately.

[YamydeAragon]

Before if you had no Reputation with the Galadhrim the archers would kill you passing through, I always found stuff like this in the game was fun in my opinion, an its part of the Lore, also gives reason for players to work on Rep there, i would like to see that again.

I have to agree with this request because i never agreed to get this feature removed. It is one of those things from the lore that feels that it is a must have, no different to the fell statues at Angmar (Don't dare to remove this feature as well!). Also i find not reasonable justification to remove the Lothlorien feature. Isn't like it asked kindred to pass to the woods. Come on... got to be really lazy to don't get it! I did that much reputation yesterday on a lowie alt in a few hours.

[Witch0King]

No thanks. For my part I am glad they were removed.

[Pontin_Finnberry]

This was changed when the Great River quest pack was added, to allow folk who were in the 70 to 75 level range bypass Dunland if they wanted to do so without having Lorien reputation. I don't see them going back at this point, though there is a way it could be done. You'd meet Haldir on the road (currently in the game for one B. B.) in Nanduhiriion, have a bit of dialogue with him, be given a pass (blindfolded ;P) and dropped off on the road to the Great River.

I understand that, but it be nice to see it again stuff like this makes the game more fun, and could just add a fast horse from Echad Andestel to Great river?

No thanks. For my part I am glad they were removed.

I'm not i like stuff like this its more like a real Adventure to me

[Witch0King]

I'm not i like stuff like this its more like a real Adventure to me

I'd hate being gated by rep to move on as I've done that entrance game 7 times. I'd rather just do the important quests and move on if I make an 8th character. Adventure to me isn't picking up arrows and carrying dung.
PS: you can still aquire the amount of rep you see fit before entering. In that way it wouldn't become mandatory and it serves the RP need.

[Erennor]

I would like to talk in more detail about this, but it is late here now and I was about to go. Yet, I wanted to add my voice of support. So in brief, yes: make it as it was before, or, at the very least, have them give you a word of warning.

'Stay stranger from afar!'

'What brings you hither? The days darken and we place no trust to those from without our land, save our kindred in Rivendell. You cannot enter here without our leave, and I cannot set that aside, for I am not the master of the law.'

'If you wish to carry on, you must be blindfolded and walk with us.'

And then, for those that do not have the required reputation (which to begin with does not take much time it seems) have them transferred over the other side so they can continue on their questing.

And as a parting word for now, I want to say, Turbine, do not take away from immersion and the lore in favour of 'gaming' and convenience/mainstream. As you know very well, the greatest strength and draw of LotRO is the recreation of the World of Middle-earth and its lore, and stories. It is most unwise to make shortcuts on these things. This is the main draw that the game had, has, and will ever have it seems as long as it runs. The IP/lore of this setting is timeless. Try to to always uphold it - not lessen it.

[Erennor]

And I would like to take this chance and share the following too, as it is related, and for reminding us all how much mistrust, and in general, estrangement there was among the Free Peoples in Middle-earth. This concept with the archers in Lorien was keeping somewhat in line with that.



The Estrangement Of The Free Peoples
The Elves have their own labours and their own sorrows, and they are now little concerned with the ways of any other creatures upon earth. Men and Elves have become estranged by the arts of the Enemy, and by the slow changes of time in which each kind has walked further down their sundered roads. Even from distant times, the hearts of the Elves have been estranged from Men, (save only the Edain, the ancestors of the Numenoreans). And Men now fear and misdoubt the Elves, and yet know little of them. Dwarves, even from their beginning, Eru (the One) declared that often strife would arise between them and Elves and Men. Their friendship with the Eldar has ever been cool, even before those griefs that lay between them had yet come to pass. Always, it seems, that their relationship and alliance as a people has been rather for profit and common cause than love or league of friendship. As for hobbits, they are shy of the Big People, and are not concerned with them.

The Men of Gondor having grown like other Middle men, are untrusting and fearful of Lothlorien considering it perilous. The Dunlending are afraid of Elvish Folk and flee and hid themselves from them, though few indeed ever come to their country. And these men have for long been enemies of the people of Rohan who also shun the Elves and speak of the Golden Wood with dread; and there is no great love for dwarves either, descending even from older times, from the Éothéod: the ancestors of the Rohirrim. The Wood-elves of Mirkwood too, do not love dwarves, and in ancient days they had had wars with some of them. The Elves of Lothlorien, have not had dealings with them since the Dark Days, and they are not permitted in their land. But even their own kindred in Mirkwood are sundered from them. Also, before the hobbits of the Fellowship came to Lorien, the Galadhrim had not heard of hobbits, for many a long year, and did not know that any yet dwelt in Middle-earth. Elves in Eriador know of hobbits but they are not concerned with them and their small doings, thinking them dull. In the Shire, hobbits have heeded less and less the world outside, and people beyond their little land are Outsiders for them, even other hobbits. Bree-folk too, consider any beyond Bree-land as Outsiders, and affairs away south, are remote and therefore not important for them. Hobbits and men in Bree, though on friendly terms, each mind their own affairs in their own ways.

[From The Complete Guide to Middle-earth Role Play, Immersion, and the Lore]

These are all direct references found throughout the books (not only LotR). Very many references in the books that clearly show the estrangement that devides each race.

[Nymphonic]

Oh I'm glad it's gone. I liked it on my main, and my first and maybe second alt, but I would hate it after that. I disagree with Turbine on a lot of things, but I'm in full agreement with them on this.

[Jewl_of_the_lake]

Realy the only problem with this is choosing Lothlorien as your origin. It was a bit wrong as Elves would not willingly kill other elves. I do miss it, I was able to survive on my mini when I crossed to far over to make it back to the shore.

[Pontin_Finnberry]

And I would like to take this chance and share the following too, as it is related, and for reminding us all how much mistrust, and in general, estrangement there was among the Free Peoples in Middle-earth. This concept with the archers in Lorien was keeping somewhat in line with that.



The Estrangement Of The Free Peoples
The Elves have their own labours and their own sorrows, and they are now little concerned with the ways of any other creatures upon earth. Men and Elves have become estranged by the arts of the Enemy, and by the slow changes of time in which each kind has walked further down their sundered roads. Even from distant times, the hearts of the Elves have been estranged from Men, (save only the Edain, the ancestors of the Numenoreans). And Men now fear and misdoubt the Elves, and yet know little of them. Dwarves, even from their beginning, Eru (the One) declared that often strife would arise between them and Elves and Men. Their friendship with the Eldar has ever been cool, even before those griefs that lay between them had yet come to pass. Always, it seems, that their relationship and alliance as a people has been rather for profit and common cause than love or league of friendship. As for hobbits, they are shy of the Big People, and are not concerned with them.

The Men of Gondor having grown like other Middle men, are untrusting and fearful of Lothlorien considering it perilous. The Dunlending are afraid of Elvish Folk and flee and hid themselves from them, though few indeed ever come to their country. And these men have for long been enemies of the people of Rohan who also shun the Elves and speak of the Golden Wood with dread; and there is no great love for dwarves either, descending even from older times, from the Éothéod: the ancestors of the Rohirrim. The Wood-elves of Mirkwood too, do not love dwarves, and in ancient days they had had wars with some of them. The Elves of Lothlorien, have not had dealings with them since the Dark Days, and they are not permitted in their land. But even their own kindred in Mirkwood are sundered from them. Also, before the hobbits of the Fellowship came to Lorien, the Galadhrim had not heard of hobbits, for many a long year, and did not know that any yet dwelt in Middle-earth. Elves in Eriador know of hobbits but they are not concerned with them and their small doings, thinking them dull. In the Shire, hobbits have heeded less and less the world outside, and people beyond their little land are Outsiders for them, even other hobbits. Bree-folk too, consider any beyond Bree-land as Outsiders, and affairs away south, are remote and therefore not important for them. Hobbits and men in Bree, though on friendly terms, each mind their own affairs in their own ways.

[From The Complete Guide to Middle-earth Role Play, Immersion, and the Lore]

These are all direct references found throughout the books (not only LotR). Very many references in the books that clearly show the estrangement that devides each race.

Very nice post of the Lore on this

[elvenes]

never lose the chance to do some PR hm?

[OldMadeOfLions]

...I always found stuff like this in the game was fun in my opinion, and its part of the Lore...

I always liked it too, but there were definitely a lot of calls over the years to remove the insta-death archers on the perimeter of Lothlorien. Even when they first went into the game, we had to have multiple ways to satisfy the rep requirement; it just didn't make sense that you could do certain quests for the Elves and they still wouldn't trust you. I was sad to see them go, but having gone, I don't think we're going to bring them back.

I still make sure to gain the rep on my characters before entering the Golden Wood -- unless they're Lorien Elves to begin with! But that's a personal choice and I get that not everyone is going to have the patience to do the repeatable quests for it.

MoL

[Arnenna]

I always liked it too, but there were definitely a lot of calls over the years to remove the insta-death archers on the perimeter of Lothlorien. Even when they first went into the game, we had to have multiple ways to satisfy the rep requirement; it just didn't make sense that you could do certain quests for the Elves and they still wouldn't trust you. I was sad to see them go, but having gone, I don't think we're going to bring them back.

I still make sure to gain the rep on my characters before entering the Golden Wood -- unless they're Lorien Elves to begin with! But that's a personal choice and I get that not everyone is going to have the patience to do the repeatable quests for it.

MoL

It's a shame that they can't be revived, as many of us never experienced this part of the game. I understand why they were removed however. Perhaps one day when there isn't a million other more important things to do, you could just put one back at Caras Galadhon bridge. We still need friend to get in there at the moment, so a protective archer just before the main gate wouldn't harm too much.

[Pontin_Finnberry]

I always liked it too, but there were definitely a lot of calls over the years to remove the insta-death archers on the perimeter of Lothlorien. Even when they first went into the game, we had to have multiple ways to satisfy the rep requirement; it just didn't make sense that you could do certain quests for the Elves and they still wouldn't trust you. I was sad to see them go, but having gone, I don't think we're going to bring them back.

I still make sure to gain the rep on my characters before entering the Golden Wood -- unless they're Lorien Elves to begin with! But that's a personal choice and I get that not everyone is going to have the patience to do the repeatable quests for it.

MoL

When i first went to Lothlorien was confused when i died but liked it cause then i remembered in the book about the elves in this part of the story, I see reason it had to go game wise, i just miss this kind of stuff but sadly it will not return i guess

[Urwendil]

I don't think we're going to bring them back.

Well thought and well done. It may have made sense back when Lothlórien was an endgame region. It doesn't now. I could live with it if it were like the Rammas Deluon passive skill gain and not a reputation grind.

Anyway, I'm glad it's not coming back.

[007Squanto]

For me they added a sense of danger and risk while travelling through the landscape.

More than anything I wish the devs would add that sense of danger to the landscape everywhere. Its hard to immerse yourself and really feel a sense of adventure when there's nothing stopping you from Bree to Gondor.

[Vexendynamus]

This was changed when the Great River quest pack was added, to allow folk who were in the 70 to 75 level range bypass Dunland if they wanted to do so without having Lorien reputation.

Incorrect. The archers were removed with the Riders of Rohan expansion. The Epic quest line for Riders of Rohan begins on the central flet in Caras Galadhon with Lady Galadriel and Lord Celeborn. A rope was also added to the wall just outside the city, allowing players without sufficient reputation to 'hop the fence', speak with Lady Galadriel, and start that part of the Epic.

The Great River was originally an L75 end game area. Every single quest was L75, just like all quests in Wildermore are currently L85. It was releveled to L71 to L75 when Riders of Rohan was released, just like Enedwaith was changed from an L65 area to an L61 to L65 area when Rise of Isengard was released.

The Lorien archers did NOT instantly defeat players. When coming too close to Lorien, the archers would begin shooting. A player with quick reactions could back away, causing the archers to stop firing. I know this with certainty, as my very first character accidentally triggered the archers exactly once and was NOT defeated. All of my characters still scold every single border archer in the Golden Wood, especially the jerk near Haldir's Flet. (My characters are all Kindred yet the unfriendly comments from the archers never change.)

It was always a poorly implemented system. Lorien archers should not shoot at elves from Lorien, nor elves in general as this would make them kin slayers. They should not shoot at hobbits who are obviously a novelty and not orcs. Shooting at dwarves could well start a war, and would make little sense. Shooting at man folk makes the most sense, but I still cannot believe they would shoot women or mistake a man for an orc. The game itself establishes that the elves scare away the Rohirrim from Stangard who venture too close, and greet travelers in the Bingo Boffin quest. Finally, Lady Galadriel knows the character is coming. The Bingo Boffin quest involving entering Lorien handles the situation correctly. The 'On Notice' quest in Harwick also handles the very same sort of situation in much more agreeable fashion.