Player Stats are Getting a Little High

[Joedangod]

New gear is letting players bump up the stats a bit.

RK's can now reach mastery cap with just red cappy + blue mini (don't have raid upgrade jewels on it yet):



And Guardians can now reach ~83k buffed morale with 100% partials, 72/75% mits, 35% incoming healing, 60% crit defence, 21.3% finesse... (don't have Pelennor morales, they would bump morale to around 85k+)



Amusingly guardians can go down to a single tactical mitigation essence and still have mitigations fully capped.

Wardens can likely cap mastery purely by themselves. I sure do hope the enemies in Mordor are tough, because players are becoming insanely powerful.

[Oelle]

what I find even more amusing is the minstrel with 84k morale.

[Joedangod]

what I find even more amusing is the minstrel with 84k morale.

Think that mini is actually underdoing it, it's a live build. I'll see what I can do.

[Laerien]

Most players don't use BIS so this is not an issue. The game can't be built thinking in little minority.

[Phindecano]

Seems like it's exactly the devs plan: allow us to reach most of the caps before Mordor comes out. It's not good in terms of challenging content and PvMP balance, but won't change things dramatically.

Anyway, with Mordor we need some fundamental stats/ratings/caps revision. Even current live numbers are absurd. Physical/tactical mastery ratings are the most broken. Many item/class buffs give some +2%, +5% or +10% to the damage that already has some 350% from the ratings. So the real difference between 120k mastery and 140k mastery is not so huge because of their percentage formula. They need to streamline it somehow.

[Mukor]

Seems like it's exactly the devs plan: allow us to reach most of the caps before Mordor comes out. It's not good in terms of challenging content and PvMP balance, but won't change things dramatically.

Anyway, with Mordor we need some fundamental stats/ratings/caps revision. Even current live numbers are absurd. Physical/tactical mastery ratings are the most broken. Many item/class buffs give some +2%, +5% or +10% to the damage that already has some 350% from the ratings. So the real difference between 120k mastery and 140k mastery is not so huge because of their percentage formula. They need to streamline it somehow.

Most broken is the dps as raise of dds vs threatbuild, tanks build up around 4 threat per 1 point dmg, while dds makes 10+ times more dmg as tanks(exept warden). Sothis can´t work. Well tanks have passive threat with a few skills but this passive didn´t grow trouly since orthanc. Like it the huntersbasedmg before the fix, where allgrowed dmg was caused to more mastery and other boni.
There must be aformula fix come as well As for the passive as for the basedmg. Well less mastery but really each autohit of a dd is as high as the most of the skills, this is wrong.
I´m just expirienced with guards but what I see captains have the same porblem, as said wardens not. And for beos never seen maked dps of a (tank)beo.
But for guards and cpatains it must become fixed or we willhave a problem in the future.

[Gilean-EU]

I sure do hope the enemies in Mordor are tough, because players are becoming insanely powerful.

Inside instances of Mordor, sure, but as most of Mordor will be landscape (solo), and you calculated those values with using BIS gear AND with buffs by other players, this will not be an issue there. If someone really has all the best gear there is with very best essences, and then run around landscape in groups with buffs from other players, of course ALL enemies in Mordor landscape should feel easy to him/her.

[Elgrind]

Most broken is the dps as raise of dds vs threatbuild, tanks build up around 4 threat per 1 point dmg, while dds makes 10+ times more dmg as tanks(exept warden). Sothis can´t work. Well tanks have passive threat with a few skills but this passive didn´t grow trouly since orthanc. Like it the huntersbasedmg before the fix, where allgrowed dmg was caused to more mastery and other boni.
There must be aformula fix come as well As for the passive as for the basedmg. Well less mastery but really each autohit of a dd is as high as the most of the skills, this is wrong.
I´m just expirienced with guards but what I see captains have the same porblem, as said wardens not. And for beos never seen maked dps of a (tank)beo.
But for guards and cpatains it must become fixed or we willhave a problem in the future.

We already reach cap with yellow minis btw.
U19 rk unbuffed reach atleast 120k mastery !!!

The problem is force taunt COPY highest threat.
At beginning of fight force taunt has nearly zero threat!!!
If hunter/rk start with very high hit, they will get aggro

In ToDT raid, mummaks will have aggro on most highest RK dps at start.
Even foce taunt is on mummaks
So mummaks kite tank, have to wait until dps got enough threat.
And you have to Force taunt back mummaks on after that.

But yeah lets say this to SSG :
"Too high, no need for anything, just remove it like LI imbued legacy" :-)
So we get only landscape map with some daily :-)

[Macroscian]

It wasn't limited by a true new level cap for 3 years or so, just further inflated stats since HD. If a true cap increase means we get to hunt and build new legendary items and gear to be able to do the new cap. Now it's the same cap, which makes the early bits from three years ago extremely simple. Same cap but great increases.

Did you see the new cloak barters are no longer 355 main stat but a blistering 474? That's the limiting factor.
And extra crit! Isn't that nice for you.
I seem to recall that the opening poster and his forum buddies asked for this change in the bullroarer feedback.
Give more useful and higher and better and badder and more whoompf and bigger numbers and pointless extras - *especially and specifically* aimed at getting the RK will cloak better than it was in build 1 u20.

So...what's the point?

[Laerien]

Another thing is that you have been told that this whole flower/raid gear will serve through 2017. Probably, with this gear you'll be ready (in the eye of the devs) for the next instance cluster.

[Mukor]

We already reach cap with yellow minis btw.
U19 rk unbuffed reach atleast 120k mastery !!!

The problem is force taunt COPY highest threat.
At beginning of fight force taunt has nearly zero threat!!!
If hunter/rk start with very high hit, they will get aggro

In ToDT raid, mummaks will have aggro on most highest RK dps at start.
Even foce taunt is on mummaks
So mummaks kite tank, have to wait until dps got enough threat.
And you have to Force taunt back mummaks on after that.

But yeah lets say this to SSG :
"Too high, no need for anything, just remove it like LI imbued legacy" :-)
So we get only landscape map with some daily :-)

I don´t talk about the copied threat with force taunts. I talked about the builded threat with skill like shield taunt, wich only have ~22k threat or shieldsmah(~4*8k+23k=54k) this is one hit of a hunter for example. There is something wrong in the formula of guards dmg and the passive threat. dmg just growed with masteryand passive did not growed since orthanc times. Back then it was possible to taunt and after 10 seconds you build enugh to hold the attention but now we become outrace, st without fray the edge and on masstanking on each way it´s not possible to hold 15+from start to the end.
The dmg and the passive threat have to become buffed.

[Bhorn_EU]

I think it is slightly disingenuous to show a toon with all BIS and complain about how OP it is on a beta server. For most players who can play a couple of hours a day on 2 or 3 characters, it will still take months of grind to get get that gear.

[Macroscian]

I think it is slightly disingenuous to show a toon with all BIS and complain about how OP it is on a beta server. For most players who can play a couple of hours a day on 2 or 3 characters, it will still take months of grind to get get that gear.

Sadly it's the Best in Slotters who go on to complain about new areas being ezmode. From the other day: My grd can solo 30 of these fellow area mobs!. It is of course not the fault of the player but the lack of forward planning where cap remained the same too long. Player equiplent level is now equivalent of character level 140-150 and the landscape remains 105. Just a shame these trolls that were created can't be made to stop demanding more.

Despite them complaining it's faceroll and whatever other trolling words they use, they don't stop demanding more better higher. Nor do they demand level cap raises or increased virtue cap - no, the same crowd also want all deeds to be account wide, gear that has even more utility and higher stats, no cap raise and more imbued tiers.

[Mukor]

Sadly it's the Best in Slotters who go on to complain about new areas being ezmode. From the other day: My grd can solo 30 of these fellow area mobs!. It is of course not the fault of the player but the lack of forward planning where cap remained the same too long. Player equiplent level is now equivalent of character level 140-150 and the landscape remains 105. Just a shame these trolls that were created can't be made to stop demanding more.

Despite them complaining it's faceroll and whatever other trolling words they use, they don't stop demanding more better higher. Nor do they demand level cap raises or increased virtue cap - no, the same crowd also want all deeds to be account wide, gear that has even more utility and higher stats, no cap raise and more imbued tiers.

A big problem is the gap in player skills for some it will be challenging even with the new gear, cause they don´t know what this colorful bottoms make wich they hit and others have noproblem wih the old gear and get more stats. Therefore it would be a good ifea to split the world you,where everyone can choose if he wants in open world with t2-monster or ow with t1 monsters. Sopalyersof every skill, except wardens I would guess, will have to build a fellowship for fellowshipquest. Maybe t2-world should have a higher droprating of special items but for sure everyone have his challenge. But I´m afraid nearly no one will run t2 if there aren´t any advantages.

[Arnenna]

A big problem is the gap in player skills for some it will be challenging even with the new gear, cause they don´t know what this colorful bottoms make wich they hit and others have noproblem wih the old gear and get more stats. Therefore it would be a good ifea to split the world you,where everyone can choose if he wants in open world with t2-monster or ow with t1 monsters. Sopalyersof every skill, except wardens I would guess, will have to build a fellowship for fellowshipquest. Maybe t2-world should have a higher droprating of special items but for sure everyone have his challenge. But I´m afraid nearly no one will run t2 if there aren´t any advantages.

I'd personally prefer they keep it as it is on the new update - two different avenues to the same goals - one solo one grouped, where the grouped versions allow players to achieve goals faster.

As for difficulty and what's presented in this thread, it's a red herring. Not everyone gears like this for landscape content, and those that do - do by choice. It's gear designed for grouped t2 instances - not landscape. Take it off on landscape (it's very easy to do guys, I do it all the time), and life becomes less faceroll. Its a very simple concept - if you don't want landscape to be a boring one shot fest with your eyes shut, then stop wearing t2c gear to run it, because that gear isn't designed for it. Simple.

[siipperi]

We have been saying this for a while. While on live its certainly possible to reach mastery cap on few characters its extremely hard. Also people need to remember pic is of RK which is really hard to reach mastery cap in comparison to classes with superior off-hand weapon like champs or wardens. So you already give in on stats on RK in comparison.

I hope they nerf existing essences once we get into the mordor. Cutting 30% on strenght would make wonders to the game.

And no you dont even need group armor to reach these numbers. Maybe you are few K short on mastery but thats about it. Situation is as bad as on u17. I have been saying, showering players with golden items is terrible idea.

I think it is slightly disingenuous to show a toon with all BIS and complain about how OP it is on a beta server. For most players who can play a couple of hours a day on 2 or 3 characters, it will still take months of grind to get get that gear.

Its not. Remember this is without yellow minstrel who can give additional ~14k mastery. So as said its very easy to hit the cap. This also means it reduces usefulness of buffing in group play because classes doesnt benefit from it.


So how to fix all this? Get rid of morale essences, replace them with vitality and nerf all existing t6, t7 and t8 essences.

[siipperi]

I'd personally prefer they keep it as it is on the new update - two different avenues to the same goals - one solo one grouped, where the grouped versions allow players to achieve goals faster.

As for difficulty and what's presented in this thread, it's a red herring. Not everyone gears like this for landscape content, and those that do - do by choice. It's gear designed for grouped t2 instances - not landscape. Take it off on landscape (it's very easy to do guys, I do it all the time), and life becomes less faceroll. Its a very simple concept - if you don't want landscape to be a boring one shot fest with your eyes shut, then stop wearing t2c gear to run it, because that gear isn't designed for it. Simple.

You are absolutely right. Nobody should gear like OP for landscape. What they should do is get rid of that overcapped mitigations and replace mitigation essences with few K more madtery or morale.

[Isdryal]

It's gear designed for grouped t2 instances - not landscape.

Wich t2 instances are you refering to?
Everything at level cap t2c has been done with U19 gear by a pretty large percentage of players.
Gear and content are, for a while now no longer streamlined.

[Joedangod]

I seem to recall that the opening poster and his forum buddies asked for this change in the bullroarer feedback.

You are mistaken, I even argued against the LI increase as it would allow the guard build to start closing in on 90k buffed morale and makes the RK obliterate everything in its path. Funnily enough, those builds still aren't quite wearing best in slot, the guard would gain a surprisingly large amount of morale from swapping to pelennor essences and the RK would gain a decent amount of will and be able to up its morale.

I have been against pretty much every gear boost added since the raid launched, stats are far too high as is which has resulted in players being able to do stupid stunts that trivialise the raid content. We have not had anything more difficult added and the raid came with its own increase in stats so I see no reason why characters should continue to grow until a new challenge is actually coming.

[Mukor]

I'd personally prefer they keep it as it is on the new update - two different avenues to the same goals - one solo one grouped, where the grouped versions allow players to achieve goals faster.

As for difficulty and what's presented in this thread, it's a red herring. Not everyone gears like this for landscape content, and those that do - do by choice. It's gear designed for grouped t2 instances - not landscape. Take it off on landscape (it's very easy to do guys, I do it all the time), and life becomes less faceroll. Its a very simple concept - if you don't want landscape to be a boring one shot fest with your eyes shut, then stop wearing t2c gear to run it, because that gear isn't designed for it. Simple.

You don´t undestand my point wich will still have problems with the solocontent wearing this gear during others wouldn´t have any problems wearing weaker gear So yeah two different classes of difficulty will solve this gap and giving the mor difficult quests better rewards and the mops a higher chance of dropping will alsosolve that the more expirienced player can finish faster the process of equipping with less solocontent in wich we get forced. K at the moment there is no need of this equip but to be honestly we all hope that there is need with the next update so we have to equip us for this, that all this possible gear now is needed as starting gear for the next. Sowe are able to raid straight from beginning without collecting the first time.
And the players wich have problems with the solocontent at the moment get better gear now and can finally finished their quest.

You are absolutely right. Nobody should gear like OP for landscape. What they should do is get rid of that overcapped mitigations and replace mitigation essences with few K more madtery or morale.

Yeah that´s why raiders to much overpower for solocontent,cause their wear to much defense. I completly agrre that this it´s the raiders mistake that he doesn´t change this not neededstats tomore dmg that the soloconntent becomes more challenging.

[Arnenna]

Wich t2 instances are you refering to?
Everything at level cap t2c has been done with U19 gear by a pretty large percentage of players.
Gear and content are, for a while now no longer streamlined.

You know what I meant. There are other ways to play landscape content - other than geared to the hilt and back as in the OP.

[Joedangod]

You know what I meant. There are other ways to play landscape content - other than geared to the hilt and back as in the OP.

Why mention landscape? Those builds are clearly for T2C stat caps.

[Arnenna]

You are mistaken, I even argued against the LI increase as it would allow the guard build to start closing in on 90k buffed morale and makes the RK obliterate everything in its path. Funnily enough, those builds still aren't quite wearing best in slot, the guard would gain a surprisingly large amount of morale from swapping to pelennor essences and the RK would gain a decent amount of will and be able to up its morale.

I have been against pretty much every gear boost added since the raid launched, stats are far too high as is which has resulted in players being able to do stupid stunts that trivialise the raid content. We have not had anything more difficult added and the raid came with its own increase in stats so I see no reason why characters should continue to grow until a new challenge is actually coming.

Maybe there is a new challenge coming, but we don't know it yet. It would be a good idea to at least get people through Throne if that's the case right? Not everyone has the skillset required to get through Throne in the early days of it's launch (which they are fine with by the way), but you know that already. The more people that can get through it before the next challenge arrives - the more people are likely to beta test it when it gets here, and the more chance you have of the difficulty bar being set as high as you'd like it to be. The more people trying out the raid, the better IMO, and if it takes a boost to get them there, who cares if you've already travelled the road? The race is over, and was a long while ago. It's not about server firsts and exclusive bragging rights anymore - that's old hat.

[Arnenna]

Why mention landscape? Those builds are clearly for T2C stat caps.

Well, you didn't mention that it wasn't, so for someone so picky about making sure things are specifically stated - you should live by your own words.

[Joedangod]

Well, you didn't mention that it wasn't, so for someone so picky about making sure things are specifically stated - you should live by your own words.

O_o The guard is in full out tank gear....