Spoiler links or Spoilers on the main page?

[Fernelf]

I wanted to find out how the community would like to see spoilers handled in the Lorebook when it becomes public?

I know many people do not like spoilers at all. On the other hand,there are players that enjoy the "security" of a spoiler when playing games.

I would think it is a good bet there will be spoilers listed in the Lorebook because it will be open for everyone to edit. That said, how do you think spoilers should be added?

I would like to see a spoiler link as opposed to the spoiler being on the "main" page of the item,quest,etc but I do not know if this can be accomplished?

I think a spoiler link is perhaps the "middle ground" for those viewing the various sections. Those not interested in spoilers will not see them but the spoilers would be easy enough to access by hitting a link at the bottom of the page.

The above are just my opinion and I am only one of many that hope to use the Lorebook . In no way am I saying My opinions are the "right way". I was curious though how others hope to see spoilers handled.




Thoughts?

[Cherubina]

I wanted to find out how the community would like to see spoilers handled in the Lorebook when it becomes public?

I know many people do not like spoilers at all. On the other hand,there are players that enjoy the "security" of a spoiler when playing games.

I would think it is a good bet there will be spoilers listed in the Lorebook because it will be open for everyone to edit. That said, how do you think spoilers should be added?

I would like to see a spoiler link as opposed to the spoiler being on the "main" page of the item,quest,etc but I do not know if this can be accomplished?

I think a spoiler link is perhaps the "middle ground" for those viewing the various sections. Those not interested in spoilers will not see them but the spoilers would be easy enough to access by hitting a link at the bottom of the page.

The above are just my opinion and I am only one of many that hope to use the Lorebook . In no way am I saying My opinions are the "right way". I was curious though how others hope to see spoilers handled.




Thoughts?

Are you talking to me?

Actually not a bad idea, and yes a link would be easy enough to do, I believe.

[Aylwyne]

I've been giving this some thought and I think it would certainly be easy for the people editing the lorebook (both Turbine and the community) to lay out the content so that 'spoilers' were easily distinguished from other information.

I think the big challenge will be in finding consensus on what is considered a 'spoiler'.

Is knowing the exact location of an NPC a spoiler? Some will say, "No, the point of the game for me is to do the quests, not to hunt down an NPC to give me the quest." Some will say, "Yes, the point of the game for me is exploration so I want to have to hunt for things."

Sure, there's plenty of information that people would be more inclined to agree that is or is not a spoiler. But I think there will be a surprising amount of grey to the problem.

[Cherubina]

I've been giving this some thought and I think it would certainly be easy for the people editing the lorebook (both Turbine and the community) to lay out the content so that 'spoilers' were easily distinguished from other information.

I think the big challenge will be in finding consensus on what is considered a 'spoiler'.

Is knowing the exact location of an NPC a spoiler? Some will say, "No, the point of the game for me is to do the quests, not to hunt down an NPC to give me the quest." Some will say, "Yes, the point of the game for me is exploration so I want to have to hunt for things."

Sure, there's plenty of information that people would be more inclined to agree that is or is not a spoiler. But I think there will be a surprising amount of grey to the problem.

Well, you could do something like make a "Spoilers" category, and then subcategories for different types of spoilers (walkthroughs, npc locations, deed objective locations, monster locations, etc.). And maybe a "Spoiler Alert" template for the main pages, and just list links to spoiler info within the "Spoiler Alert" box.

Maybe you could also have a "Spoilers" section on the front page, with links to just get the spoilers, if that's what you're looking for.

What do you think?

[Khafar]

I like the work Cherubina's been doing on the newbie quest spoilers (good job!), but I too would rather see them be linked off the quest page to a different topic, rather than shown right in the quest page. In fact, it should probably be a new Category (Quest Spoilers).

Even within a Spoiler page, it would be nice to have some sort of summary spoiler information listing NPCs, locations, etc at the top - and a step-by-step quest spoiler down below.

I'd help out with that, but I'm under the gun at work this week .

Khafar

[Cherubina]

I like the work Cherubina's been doing on the newbie quest spoilers (good job!), but I too would rather see them be linked off the quest page to a different topic, rather than shown right in the quest page. In fact, it should probably be a new Category (Quest Spoilers).

Even within a Spoiler page, it would be nice to have some sort of summary spoiler information listing NPCs, locations, etc at the top - and a step-by-step quest spoiler down below.

I'd help out with that, but I'm under the gun at work this week .

Khafar

Take another look. I think you'll like what you see now.

[Aylwyne]

We've talked about this some internally and I think we've come up with a system that should allow us to let people choose to see or hide information that's categorized as 'spoiler' info by the editors without having to create separate pages and excess clutter.

Our idea is that we would make an official 'spoiler' template similar to the one that was already created. However, rather than just calling out the spoiler with big red text, we would make the section collapsable. We would then add a user preference on whether you wanted spoiler information expanded or collapsed by default.

This would allow us to do 2 things:

1) inline the 'spoiler' information with the rest of the article rather than make separate pages. This just helps get all information in one place (the quest walkthrough on the quest page itself, for example) rather than on multiple pages.

2) allows us to 'tone down' the spoiler styling. If there's a general option to hide spoiler information, it's less critical to have the big bold letters calling every spoiler out.

This isn't something that would happen immediately as there's some work to be done to make this happen (adding the user preference and controls, etc.). However, I wanted to give you a heads up as to what we're thinking as a general solution so you can maybe keep that in mind when making updates so it's less painful to integrate once we get a system like that in place.

Right now, I believe there's 2 spoiler templates (Spoiler Alert and Quest Walkthrough). What we'll probably do is use the 'Spoiler Alert' template and rework it to this new functionality and then work on moving quest walkthroughs to the main quest pages using the new functionality.

So just a heads up, keep using the Spoiler Alert template but try not to add a bunch of new templates and pages for the time being.

[Cherubina]

We've talked about this some internally and I think we've come up with a system that should allow us to let people choose to see or hide information that's categorized as 'spoiler' info by the editors without having to create separate pages and excess clutter.

Our idea is that we would make an official 'spoiler' template similar to the one that was already created. However, rather than just calling out the spoiler with big red text, we would make the section collapsable. We would then add a user preference on whether you wanted spoiler information expanded or collapsed by default.

This would allow us to do 2 things:

1) inline the 'spoiler' information with the rest of the article rather than make separate pages. This just helps get all information in one place (the quest walkthrough on the quest page itself, for example) rather than on multiple pages.

2) allows us to 'tone down' the spoiler styling. If there's a general option to hide spoiler information, it's less critical to have the big bold letters calling every spoiler out.

This isn't something that would happen immediately as there's some work to be done to make this happen (adding the user preference and controls, etc.). However, I wanted to give you a heads up as to what we're thinking as a general solution so you can maybe keep that in mind when making updates so it's less painful to integrate once we get a system like that in place.

Right now, I believe there's 2 spoiler templates (Spoiler Alert and Quest Walkthrough). What we'll probably do is use the 'Spoiler Alert' template and rework it to this new functionality and then work on moving quest walkthroughs to the main quest pages using the new functionality.

So just a heads up, keep using the Spoiler Alert template but try not to add a bunch of new templates and pages for the time being.

Very well, I'll behave.

I'm kind of like a kid with a new toy though. It is a new toy for me. I've seen a lot of wiki pages, but the templates, wiki markup, etc., is all new to me. So, I'm learning on the fly.

The collapsible spoiler info sounds perfect!

[Aylwyne]

Very well, I'll behave.

I'm kind of like a kid with a new toy though. It is a new toy for me. I've seen a lot of wiki pages, but the templates, wiki markup, etc., is all new to me. So, I'm learning on the fly.

The collapsible spoiler info sounds perfect!

I didn't mean it to sound like a rebuke in any way In fact, the way you used a template works perfectly with our plan. It could have very well been that you just copied and pasted some standard markup into each page which would make things harder to migrate.

I'm more worried about having you put in a bunch of work only to be frustrated later which is why I want you to understand our plans so we can work better together.

[Cherubina]

I didn't mean it to sound like a rebuke in any way In fact, the way you used a template works perfectly with our plan. It could have very well been that you just copied and pasted some standard markup into each page which would make things harder to migrate.

I'm more worried about having you put in a bunch of work only to be frustrated later which is why I want you to understand our plans so we can work better together.

No problem! I think keeping everything on one page is a great idea.

I'm really glad you like the template. Now please excuse me, while I go pop my buttons.

[Brickle]

This is apart from spoilers but I am unable to edit a category or template page. I like the new kinship list idea but I am unable to get things started with http://lorebook.lotro.com/index.php?...ps&action=edit

EDIT

Now I see that some users are able to edit there user pages. I am unable to. And I am one of the beta contributors. Very frustrating. I cant help contribute without rights. I have been planning to move over the Character Profile template that I developed for Lotro-wiki but I am unable to make any headway.

Thanks for any help devs.

[Cherubina]

This is apart from spoilers but I am unable to edit a category or template page. I like the new kinship list idea but I am unable to get things started with http://lorebook.lotro.com/index.php?...ps&action=edit

EDIT

Now I see that some users are able to edit there user pages. I am unable to. And I am one of the beta contributors. Very frustrating. I cant help contribute without rights. I have been planning to move over the Character Profile template that I developed for Lotro-wiki but I am unable to make any headway.

Thanks for any help devs.

If you are logged into the Lorebook, logout. Then log back in. I wasn't able to edit either, at first. Was about to PM Patience when I realized that might be the issue. Worked like a charm.

[Aylwyne]

If you are logged into the Lorebook, logout. Then log back in. I wasn't able to edit either, at first. Was about to PM Patience when I realized that might be the issue. Worked like a charm.

Yes, that's a good point. MediaWiki checks your user permissions when you first log in and then I think it keeps them for the life of your session. If you come back and are auto-logged in (i.e. the same session), it doesn't refresh your permissions. By logging out and logging back in, your permissions should be picked up and the new editor permission should take effect.

If not, please let us know.

[Brickle]

If you are logged into the Lorebook, logout. Then log back in. I wasn't able to edit either, at first. Was about to PM Patience when I realized that might be the issue. Worked like a charm.

*jumps up and down and brushes off my chops* w00t! That did it. Now I feel silly, but im glad it worked.

Thanks Cherubina.

[Merciful_Death]

I've been giving this some thought and I think it would certainly be easy for the people editing the lorebook (both Turbine and the community) to lay out the content so that 'spoilers' were easily distinguished from other information.

I think the big challenge will be in finding consensus on what is considered a 'spoiler'.

Is knowing the exact location of an NPC a spoiler? Some will say, "No, the point of the game for me is to do the quests, not to hunt down an NPC to give me the quest." Some will say, "Yes, the point of the game for me is exploration so I want to have to hunt for things."

Sure, there's plenty of information that people would be more inclined to agree that is or is not a spoiler. But I think there will be a surprising amount of grey to the problem.

To me, the entire lorebook is a spoiler, but I'm stubbord and bull-headed like that.