So no Rohan Allegiance only because a rohirrim is not a "race"?

[Marancil]

I guess the title says it.

I have asked tidbits of this nested in other threads.

I do understand we can not have Allegiances with every faction.

BUT. . .

In my opinion the Allegiances should be expanded to include the following:

• Hobbits: ... jeez.. I really don't know, or care... Fallohides and Tooks? Tooks are WORTHY, the other ones, Harfoots and Stoors; I have no opinion.
  
• Dwarves: Thats easy. Erebor is a given... Blue Mountains a distinct candidate and Iron Hills same.
  
• For Man: Gondor, Rohan, Dale . Basically the same as the Origin we can choose when creating Characters, but not all...
  
• Elves: Now we have High Elves, then Noldor should be selectable as Allegiance... along with Avari and perhaps some more like Rivendell or Lorien.

I do not believe the Origin locations can be used for all of these Allegiances, nor do I think it would be appropriate, 2-3 Allegiances per race should be enough, but I am pretty sure more players would feel a bit more comfortable with an Allegiance that is "closer to home" so to speak, and perhaps your playing style and interest in Middle Earth.

To me the Allegiance should represent the faction you play the most, the identity you feel you have in game, the looks and cosmetics you bother with wearing and the Major Lineage of the Race you belong to. Not just the Race, but its best and most powerful, cunning, immersive representatives to how you identify yourself in playing the game and in Tolkiens world.

...

meh, who am I kidding I am just mad Rohan is not an Allegiance and making excuses for it to become one...

Made of Lions, a reply if you will?

[Gandalphor]

And then Beornings, Ents, High Elves, Bugans, benevolent Goblins and their brothers will need an allegiance. Simply no.

Hobbits shouldn't have been an allegiance in the first place. 4 short ####ers do something and suddenly it's an allegiance. Did you check the story? I pledge allegiance to the picinc cloth and the sandwich which on it rests untill we meet for another meal in an hour. ffs Some of the worst damn quests. Go to Mordor and have a picnic.

[greetingsdownunder]

The dwarf, hobbit, and elf alliegances are clearly a set up for future content.

Dwarf: teased possibly reclaiming Moria (again)
Elves: destruction of Dul Guldur, the end of the Golden Wood kingdom, and Arwen's wedding
Hobbit: teased Scouring of the Shire
Man: actually finished the story of Aragorn without any teasers at future content.

As far as quest style, yes, the hobbit quests were the worst written. For some reason defeated Isengard Uruks have magically found their way into Mordor past the Gondorians at Udun Foothold, and they seek allies among Mordor's defeated to go meet Saruman in the Shire.

As far as Rohan alliegance, they already finished that story. The land is fully at peace, and Gimli has become the only story of focus in Rohan by setting up a dwarf settlement in Glittering Caves.

[Snowlock]

I guess the title says it

I think Rohan Allegiance is def a cool idea. Maybe the quests could be about Eowyn and Faramir.

[MComstock]

Lest I get dragged into the inevitably contentious lore arguments, I will keep my comment on mechanics. IMO, breaking down the current allegiance race factions into additional sub-race factions poses a risk of becoming too complex, possibly clunky, and creates the ever-dangerous slippery slope of where does it end and which sub-race factions get to have allegiance content.

Man, Dwarf, Elf, and hobbit factions are fine. Later content and stories can perhaps get into the specifics of the sub-race factions without having their own allegiance system faction.

[Arnenna]

I think Rohan Allegiance is def a cool idea. Maybe the quests could be about Eowyn and Faramir.

Definitely a possibility where Rohan could be included IMO.

[Radhruin_EU]

The dwarf, hobbit, and elf alliegances are clearly a set up for future content.

Dwarf: teased possibly reclaiming Moria (again)
Elves: destruction of Dul Guldur, the end of the Golden Wood kingdom, and Arwen's wedding
Hobbit: teased Scouring of the Shire
Man: actually finished the story of Aragorn without any teasers at future content.

As far as quest style, yes, the hobbit quests were the worst written. For some reason defeated Isengard Uruks have magically found their way into Mordor past the Gondorians at Udun Foothold, and they seek allies among Mordor's defeated to go meet Saruman in the Shire.

As far as Rohan alliegance, they already finished that story. The land is fully at peace, and Gimli has become the only story of focus in Rohan by setting up a dwarf settlement in Glittering Caves.

I get nothing but grief whenever I say things like that. Plus if that's their idea for teasing their version of the Scouring then it sounds like it's going to be just awful.

[Tirian-Hammerfist]

Definitely a possibility where Rohan could be included IMO.

Agreed - in the same way that the story of the Grey Company isn't done yet, neither is the story of Rohan - more than half of its thanes/reeves died between Helm's Deep and Pelennor - Eomer really does have a lot of rebuilding to do, and as has been said above, this could also link up to the Faramir/Eowyn narrative.

Gondor - plenty of story opportunities here too, particularly with all of the characters that we have met returning home/or not as the case may be. The Grey Company's fates should be included here too (or at least their fates for the moment - I assume some will go to war alongside Aragorn while others will return to the north and then have to start establishing Arnor.

Lothlorien - as detailed previously, finished off the incompleted storylines they started here (Arwen, Dol Guldur, could link in further High Elves stories and we could also accompany some elves to key places in Middle Earth as they prepare to depart.

Erebor - so much to do here without even heading towards Erebor itself. The Moria story needs expanding greatly (Bosi and co being kicked out felt a little rushed imo), Gimli has a colony to set up (can't wait to see that) - and can someone please send us to find Nar?

Hobbits - less to be done unless new land masses are included (e.g. Scouring/pre-Scoured Shire), but they could focus on filling out Frodo and Sam's journey (Emyn Muil, for instance).

Of these, Rohan should definitely be added, but I'm also very excited about Erebor and Gondor in particular.

[Radhruin_EU]

Hobbits - less to be done unless new land masses are included (e.g. Scouring/pre-Scoured Shire), but they could focus on filling out Frodo and Sam's journey (Emyn Muil, for instance).

The whole Ring thing is *over*, man, I can't see what crawling off to the Emyn Muil to peer at rocks would have to do with anything that's now happening in the game's story.

[Marancil]

Wow, jeebus... so Rohan actually has some followers. Happy foals......

I am glad most actually read what I wrote about not having all factions/origins as allegiances, yet still supporting there is definitely room for improvement/change/additions in the Allegiance System.

[Denhith]

Remind me, how many different factions of Rohan do we already have rep with?
Also, given how the Allegiance system is set up, adding Rohan (which falls under Man) makes little to no sense.
The devs don't have to create another Allegiance grind simply to tell a story about Rohan--they could simply just tell a story. With all the tedious grinds in this game already...

[Marancil]

So Gondor does not fall under Man?

[Arnenna]

Remind me, how many different factions of Rohan do we already have rep with?
Also, given how the Allegiance system is set up, adding Rohan (which falls under Man) makes little to no sense.
The devs don't have to create another Allegiance grind simply to tell a story about Rohan--they could simply just tell a story. With all the tedious grinds in this game already...

I think that is what most are getting at. That the sub-factions be included within these allegiance systems. The allegiance system was described as the new end game solo content, and I presume the black book will continue on in further updates. While we pledge our allegiance to men, I'd hope it is to all the factions of men, so that we are not only running around Minas Tirith in Gondor, but that it sends us forth to show loyalty and frailty to the other factions - like Rohan. Same for Dwarves, Elves and Hobbits.

[Denhith]

So Gondor does not fall under Man?

Of course it does. Look, I have no dog in this fight, I was just pointing out the flaw in your argument (based on how the Allegiance system has been set up). The current grind is set up into chapters, no? So why couldn't they simply include several chapters of specific stories that involve Rohan directly--as both Gondor and Rohan all fall under the race of Man? There is no need to create a separate Allegiance tier just for Rohan--and again, it wouldn't make sense to with how it's currently designed.

Personally, I'm not a fan of the entire Allegiance system. Some people spent 10 years grinding out rep, becoming Kindred (and beyond) with these races and now they tack on a separate grind at the end that just seems lazy. Also, what is the purpose of setting up a specific allegiance system if you can have an allegiance with all of them? Other than for grind purposes, there is no significance to the choices we make.

[Palenen]

So Gondor does not fall under Man?

Sure they do. As like Rohan.

[Marancil]

Of course it does. Look, I have no dog in this fight, I was just pointing out the flaw in your argument (based on how the Allegiance system has been set up). The current grind is set up into chapters, no? So why couldn't they simply include several chapters of specific stories that involve Rohan directly--as both Gondor and Rohan all fall under the race of Man? There is no need to create a separate Allegiance tier just for Rohan--and again, it wouldn't make sense to with how it's currently designed.

Personally, I'm not a fan of the entire Allegiance system. Some people spent 10 years grinding out rep, becoming Kindred (and beyond) with these races and now they tack on a separate grind at the end that just seems lazy. Also, what is the purpose of setting up a specific allegiance system if you can have an allegiance with all of them? Other than for grind purposes, there is no significance to the choices we make.

Not saying you don't have some valid points there, just stating the obvious.

[Finnok-2011]

Dwarf: teased possibly reclaiming Moria (again)

That's not the impression I got at all. I thought the quest made it quite clear that the dwarves were deluding themselves, and they actually had no real hope of ever taking Moria. They were #####-slapped there at the end.

can someone please send us to find Nar?

In the epic quest 3.4.20, "In the Presence of Saruman", you're a prisoner at Isengard and you go talk to Saruman. He tells you how he waylaid the Grey Company in Enedwaith and tries to get you to tell him about the ring, but you resist. He also states in this quest that he killed Nar.
Saruman says, "I learned of your purpose from the dwarf Nár. After you left his home, I had no further need for him. He was quite himself when he died, another life lost in your wake."

Personally, I'm not a fan of the entire Allegiance system. Some people spent 10 years grinding out rep, becoming Kindred (and beyond) with these races and now they tack on a separate grind at the end that just seems lazy. Also, what is the purpose of setting up a specific allegiance system if you can have an allegiance with all of them? Other than for grind purposes, there is no significance to the choices we make.

I'm working on my 4th allegiance on 2 different characters, but I kindof agree here. Seems like our choice would be much more meaningful if we actually had to *make* a choice!

[BangoTwinkletoes]

Of course it does. Look, I have no dog in this fight, I was just pointing out the flaw in your argument (based on how the Allegiance system has been set up). The current grind is set up into chapters, no? So why couldn't they simply include several chapters of specific stories that involve Rohan directly--as both Gondor and Rohan all fall under the race of Man? There is no need to create a separate Allegiance tier just for Rohan--and again, it wouldn't make sense to with how it's currently designed.

Personally, I'm not a fan of the entire Allegiance system. Some people spent 10 years grinding out rep, becoming Kindred (and beyond) with these races and now they tack on a separate grind at the end that just seems lazy. Also, what is the purpose of setting up a specific allegiance system if you can have an allegiance with all of them? Other than for grind purposes, there is no significance to the choices we make.

Having ploughed through the Sopranos again recently, one can make the case for needing to continually work in order to maintain favour with someone

[OldMadeOfLions]

I'm working on my 4th allegiance on 2 different characters, but I kindof agree here. Seems like our choice would be much more meaningful if we actually had to *make* a choice!

Lasting choices in MMOs are tough, but as originally designed the Allegiance system was intended to feel more like a choice: you would choose one and couldn't choose another until you finished the one you were on; you couldn't choose all four and swap between them whenever you liked. This way is friendlier, and it does mean you're not locked into your choice for a long period of time, but I'm still playing them one at a time on my characters -- I think it feels more in keeping with the storylines.

MoL

[Saintjoan]

I guess the title says it.

• Hobbits: ... jeez.. I really don't know, or care... Fallohides and Tooks? Tooks are WORTHY, the other ones, Harfoots and Stoors; I have no opinion.
  
• Dwarves: Thats easy. Erebor is a given... Blue Mountains a distinct candidate and Iron Hills same.
  
• For Man: Gondor, Rohan, Dale . Basically the same as the Origin we can choose when creating Characters, but not all...
  
• Elves: Now we have High Elves, then Noldor should be selectable as Allegiance... along with Avari and perhaps some more like Rivendell or Lorien.

Made of Lions, a reply if you will?

Even if this is a great idea, by in large, the player base probably wouldn't like it. They would probably complain that there's too much to do to complete it.

I like the idea, to get more tokens of service. That way when newer rewards are added, I/we would have the tokens to barter for them.

[Snowlock]

Lasting choices in MMOs are tough, but as originally designed the Allegiance system was intended to feel more like a choice: you would choose one and couldn't choose another until you finished the one you were on; you couldn't choose all four and swap between them whenever you liked. This way is friendlier, and it does mean you're not locked into your choice for a long period of time, but I'm still playing them one at a time on my characters -- I think it feels more in keeping with the storylines.

MoL

I was like, doesn't allegiance mean by the nature of the word that you can only belong to one? I like the system, so I'm glad it wasn't that way. I hope to see more of them; so longs they continue with entertaining quests and good rewards. At least for a while.

[MComstock]

Lasting choices in MMOs are tough, but as originally designed the Allegiance system was intended to feel more like a choice: you would choose one and couldn't choose another until you finished the one you were on; you couldn't choose all four and swap between them whenever you liked. This way is friendlier, and it does mean you're not locked into your choice for a long period of time, but I'm still playing them one at a time on my characters -- I think it feels more in keeping with the storylines.

MoL

Very true. While the system carries the name "allegiance," I consider the system as more akin to swearing my character's service to the allegiance of [insert race] to assist them for a time. Once that service/assistance has concluded, I am free to swear my service to another racial allegiance for a time.

And, I still think sub-race/faction stories (e.g. Gondor/Rohan) can be played out within the current system.

[Arnenna]

I was like, doesn't allegiance mean by the nature of the word that you can only belong to one? I like the system, so I'm glad it wasn't that way. I hope to see more of them; so longs they continue with entertaining quests and good rewards. At least for a while.

Allegiance can be offered and given to lots of things. We have been giving our allegiance to hobbits, elves, dwarves and men since we left the intro. This is the same thing, only its after the One is gone, and we get specific rewards tied in with it. I didn't really like the system when I first encountered it, but now that I'm progressing along my second choice, I'm actually enjoying it more than I thought I would. I do hope it won't die a death like so many other systems that have come and gone, where we do 30 levels of each then it never sees the light of day again.

[Radhruin_EU]

Allegiance can be offered and given to lots of things.

Not in the true meaning of the word. Pledging allegiance is like when Pippin swears fealty and service to Gondor and accepts Denethor as his liege-lord. By rights it should be a "pick one" kind of deal and if this was a proper RPG then you'd have to, but modern MMOs tend to wimp out of forcing players to make real, lasting choices. (Plus it makes it easier for the devs if everyone can do all the related content because that keeps people occupied for longer).

[Scirocco]

Not in the true meaning of the word. Pledging allegiance is like when Pippin swears fealty and service to Gondor and accepts Denethor as his liege-lord. By rights it should be a "pick one" kind of deal and if this was a proper RPG then you'd have to, but modern MMOs tend to wimp out of forcing players to make real, lasting choices. (Plus it makes it easier for the devs if everyone can do all the related content because that keeps people occupied for longer).

Actually, it's not that simple. Since we're in LOTRO, let's look at British common law.

Natural allegiance is a common law term of art that refers to your nationality (i.e., where you were born). Allegiance/nationality was permanent, and could not be changed, unlike citizenship. (This inability to revoke your native allegiance without the consent of the sovereign was abandoned in the US in the 1860s by statute.)

Under the original meaning, then, you could only have one allegiance determined by where you were born, and accordingly, none of us could pledge allegiance to any of these four groups in LOTRO, unless, of course, born thereto.

But natural allegiance is one thing. Under local allegiance, even aliens (foreigners) must show deference to the country in which they live. Similarly, a person holding lands under several lords might owe simple allegiance to every such lord.

Obviously, the meaning has expended since then. A common modern definition is "the fidelity owed by a subject or citizen to a sovereign or government."

This need not be singular. Many people have dual (or more) citizenship, and thus owe fidelity to multiple sovereigns or governments. This is becoming more common even in the USA.