Flying goblins? I'm out.

[smirkboy]

Ok, I could deal with Rune keepers and Wardens when they were introduced, even though the justification in lore was a stretch. and the guy that teleports in a column of flame was stupid but tolerable. But goblins on bats? No. Please, no.

[Kochur]

Ok, I could deal with Rune keepers and Wardens when they were introduced, even though the justification in lore was a stretch. and the guy that teleports in a column of flame was stupid but tolerable. But goblins on bats? No. Please, no.

I picked up Tolkien's "Father Christmas Letters" recently, and there is an appearance of bat-riding goblins . . . so there is precedent in the lore!

[Seregthol]

I picked up Tolkien's "Father Christmas Letters" recently, and there is an appearance of bat-riding goblins . . . so there is precedent in the lore!

Are you being serious?

[Kochur]

Are you being serious?

Yes, seriously. It's really a charming little book: they are letters and artwork that Tolkien created for his kids over a number of years. It's kind of in the style of "The Hobbit." And there are a few years where goblins cause some problems for Father Christmas up at the North Pole. Fortunately the "North Polar Bear" is there to save the day. I would recommend the book for Tolkien fans.

[ziddersroofurry]

Three thousand year old elves, eight hundred or so year old frog-hobbits and talking eagles are OK but it's the goblins riding bats you think go too far? You do realize this is a universe where everything was created via a bunch of glam rock angels singing, right? lol

[Seregthol]

Yes, seriously. It's really a charming little book: they are letters and artwork that Tolkien created for his kids over a number of years. It's kind of in the style of "The Hobbit." And there are a few years where goblins cause some problems for Father Christmas up at the North Pole. Fortunately the "North Polar Bear" is there to save the day. I would recommend the book for Tolkien fans.

Oh I know. I've read it several times. It's delightful. But that doesn't make it "lore" for Middle-earth.

[Seregthol]

Three thousand year old elves, eight hundred or so year old frog-hobbits and talking eagles are OK but it's the goblins riding bats you think go too far? You do realize this is a universe where everything was created via a bunch of glam rock angels singing, right? lol

For your first post, you picked a whopper.

[wrath247]

There's still a story-logic to LOTR. Goblins, small as they are, would be far too large to ride bats.

But a flying ship in the sky, a girl shapeshifting into a swan, an elf challenging a literal god in a probable anime style due, talking dragons, a dwarf king who didn't die in 1s to the father of dragons and apparently didn't get instacrushed by him, midget ppl in the forest, werewolves, the world being made out of song, two giant lamps lighting the world, gods dooking it out in the FA, and other things still works?

Just make the bat bigger. And with armor. It's a fantasy setting, and idk about everyone else, but that seemed just as legit as the gauredein, or even the Goblin-king being called the Great Goblin King.

LOTR lore is a mix of fantasy and high fantasy aspects. Majority of the stuff doesn't make sense if you take it as is, but usually get solved if you think in fantasy or high fantasy terms. Goblins riding giants bat? No. But midgets in the forest surviving for so long? Yes. There's a big disconnect if you try to not view everything/anything in fantasy terms because it quickly breaks apart if you start questioning them.

I do get that everything should still make sense in-lore, but given how we have giant elephants, giant wolves, giant eagles, giant spiders, a giant bat kinda fits the bill as is.

[istvana]

I find hordes of beornings and elves that spent over 3,000 years on a bed in Imladris somewhat more questionable. If a hobbit can ride on a talking giant eagle why cannot a goblin ride on a bat? And, as you well know, Frodo did just that after rudely giving Smeagol the finger. So did Samwise.

But I greatly sympathize with the spirit of this thread if not the specific example.

[Wyllshire]

Ok, I could deal with Rune keepers and Wardens when they were introduced, even though the justification in lore was a stretch. and the guy that teleports in a column of flame was stupid but tolerable. But goblins on bats? No. Please, no.

I gave up on the lore of this game within (supposedly) Professor Tolkien's world long ago. I'm sure in the next "mini-expansion" you'll be able to purchase your own Unicorn mount as well a personal Leprechaun pet, (as long as you buy the $130 Super Deluxe Edition, of course!)

[orangeman]

You have a problem with Goblins riding bats but not men, dwarves, and elves riding around on pigs? Fortunately I rarely see the pig riding in game and I'm sure the folks that paid extra to get one are feeling like they were scammed. But SSG has never shied away from trying new things and then dropping them if they don't work out (War-steeds, cough!).

[Feirlain]

Weren't there giant bats present in the Battle of Five Armies in 'The Hobbit'? It's been a while since I've read it, but I got the impression that they were somewhat the same size as the Eagles when they fought. That would mean that goblins could theoretically ride them, at least from their size (maneuvering around like beasts of the Nazgul is another thing though).

[Halphast]

I find hordes of beornings and elves that spent over 3,000 years on a bed in Imladris somewhat more questionable.

Hahaha! Yes. Sadly, the High Elf storyline only works if your character is the ONLY high-elf who had that experience. But once you exit the introduction-quest and are out in the world encountering... how many other High Elves who had the same intro? Rivendell must have dug under the hills vast caverns to house their recovery rooms for the 3000-year recovery of the armies of High Elves who got individually struck down by the Witch-King.

Though I gotta say, if I had the Witch-King's sword that (on hit) magically puts people to sleep for 3000 years I would throw away my Imbued Legendary in a heartbeat.

[OldMadeOfLions]

Hahaha! Yes. Sadly, the High Elf storyline only works if your character is the ONLY high-elf who had that experience. But once you exit the introduction-quest and are out in the world encountering... how many other High Elves who had the same intro?

We generally do the 'it's unique to you!' experience with every storyline. Once players start comparing notes and discovering that they're ALL the Hero of Archet, and they're ALL best buds with Aragorn, it tends to fall down a bit. But your character is beautiful and unique (just like everybody).

MoL

[Winnower]

[Halphast]

We generally do the 'it's unique to you!' experience with every storyline. Once players start comparing notes and discovering that they're ALL the Hero of Archet, and they're ALL best buds with Aragorn, it tends to fall down a bit. But your character is beautiful and unique (just like everybody).

MoL

True! XD The Hero of Archet point made me laugh out loud and I had to explain the whole thing to my husband.

[YamydeAragon]

Ok, I could deal with Rune keepers and Wardens when they were introduced, even though the justification in lore was a stretch. and the guy that teleports in a column of flame was stupid but tolerable. But goblins on bats? No. Please, no.

OK! here are a bit of real life facts about gigantic bats that still exist (not counting extinct relatives that may have being bigger)

Pteropus (suborder Yinpterochiroptera) is a genus of megabats which are among the largest bats in the world. They are commonly known as fruit bats or flying foxes, among other colloquial names. They live in the South Asia, Southeast Asia, Australia, East Africa, and some oceanic islands in the Indian and Pacific Oceans. There are at least 60 extant species in the genus.

Flying fox species vary in body weight, ranging from 120–1,600 g (0.26–3.53 lb). Across all species, males are usually larger than females. The large flying fox (Pteropus vampyrus, formerly Pteropus giganteus) has the longest forearm length and reported wingspan of any bat species, but some bat species exceed it in weight. Its wingspan is up to 1.5 m (4 ft 11 in), and it can weigh up to 1.1 kg (2 1?2 lb). The Indian and great flying foxes are heavier, at 1.6 and 1.45 kg (3 1?2 and 3 1?4 lb), respectively. Outside this genus, the giant golden-crowned flying fox (genus Acerodon) is the only bat with similar dimensions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pteropus

Considering that the biggest hobbit may have being not taller than 4 feet, most hobbitses may have being a lot shorter & goblinses may have a similar size to to hobbitses, it may have being viable that a goblin used as steed, a very big bat, similar in size to the Flying Foxes. & Tolkiens had goblinses mounting bats on its lore anyways, is his fantastic world, his rules!

[Arnenna]

OK! here are a bit of real life facts about gigantic bats that still exist (not counting extinct relatives that may have being bigger)

Pteropus (suborder Yinpterochiroptera) is a genus of megabats which are among the largest bats in the world. They are commonly known as fruit bats or flying foxes, among other colloquial names. They live in the South Asia, Southeast Asia, Australia, East Africa, and some oceanic islands in the Indian and Pacific Oceans. There are at least 60 extant species in the genus.

Flying fox species vary in body weight, ranging from 120–1,600 g (0.26–3.53 lb). Across all species, males are usually larger than females. The large flying fox (Pteropus vampyrus, formerly Pteropus giganteus) has the longest forearm length and reported wingspan of any bat species, but some bat species exceed it in weight. Its wingspan is up to 1.5 m (4 ft 11 in), and it can weigh up to 1.1 kg (2 1?2 lb). The Indian and great flying foxes are heavier, at 1.6 and 1.45 kg (3 1?2 and 3 1?4 lb), respectively. Outside this genus, the giant golden-crowned flying fox (genus Acerodon) is the only bat with similar dimensions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pteropus

Considering that the biggest hobbit may have being not taller than 4 feet, most hobbitses may have being a lot shorter & goblinses may have a similar size to to hobbitses, it may have being viable that a goblin used as steed, a very big bat, similar in size to the Flying Foxes. & Tolkiens had goblinses mounting bats on its lore anyways, is his fantastic world, his rules!

Nothing in game surprises me much, and hardly anything upsets me

But, the size of these large bats is really not relevant. the weight however, is. Bats have a large size because of wingspan, but their wings do not have a lot of weight involved. There are larger and heavier birds in the world, but again, not relevant. They can not carry things that are much heavier than themselves.

I'd presume a goblin is more than 4lb in weight (two bags of sugar), and would be more in the region of 4 stone, if small. So it could never be carried in flight by something weighing only 4 lbs. It would be like putting a donkey on a swan and hoping it could fly. Not only would it not fly, it would be dead.

But as you say, this is fantasy, and if they want to have a 10 stone bat carrying a 4 stone goblin around the skies, that's up to them.

[Melkorben]

Ok, I could deal with Rune keepers and Wardens when they were introduced, even though the justification in lore was a stretch. and the guy that teleports in a column of flame was stupid but tolerable. But goblins on bats? No. Please, no.

And an LM "range" bear pet that can be resummon as many as you like during the fight and CC them from more than 30 meter away...bug? exploit? who cares when you have no communication with SSG and so poor/boring game/raid design.

[smirkboy]

Different response from what I expected. My complaint is not about fantastical things that appear in the books- talking dragons, flying ships, talking eagles, etc., it's about things in the game that are not in the books, or not derived reasonably. The mounts of the Nazgul were uniquely bred. the Eagles were ... Reluctant mounts , to put it mildly. I don't have a problem with giant animals. I don't have a problem with bats. I DO have a problem with mobs that seem to have been stolen from Spiderman comics.

[Echoweaver]

Three thousand year old elves, eight hundred or so year old frog-hobbits and talking eagles are OK but it's the goblins riding bats you think go too far? You do realize this is a universe where everything was created via a bunch of glam rock angels singing, right? lol

3000? LOL, Elrond is more than 10,000 years old. I'd have to go look. Galadriel is older than that.

"Glam rock angels," is the best description of Eru and the Valar.

Oh, dear. Eru and the Valar is my new band name.

[Starsmith]

3000? LOL, Elrond is more than 10,000 years old. I'd have to go look. Galadriel is older than that.

"Glam rock angels," is the best description of Eru and the Valar.

Oh, dear. Eru and the Valar is my new band name.

It has been a friend and my's headcanon for a while that Morgoth is the Original Metalhead, having invented it for the Music.

Then of course there is Sauron winning rap battles...

[Seregthol]

Different response from what I expected. My complaint is not about fantastical things that appear in the books- talking dragons, flying ships, talking eagles, etc., it's about things in the game that are not in the books, or not derived reasonably. The mounts of the Nazgul were uniquely bred. the Eagles were ... Reluctant mounts , to put it mildly. I don't have a problem with giant animals. I don't have a problem with bats. I DO have a problem with mobs that seem to have been stolen from Spiderman comics.

lol Exactly. No one is arguing that there couldn't be a bat big enough to hold a goblin...but rather, that it might not fit in the lore of Middle Earth. There are all kinds of animals big enough for a goblin to ride...rhinos, giraffes, hippos, sharks, whales. But does it fit in the official Lore? I don't think anyone wants to see someone riding a whale in LOTRO!

Actually...I guess SSG does that every day.

[Kochur]

Nothing in game surprises me much, and hardly anything upsets me

But, the size of these large bats is really not relevant. the weight however, is. Bats have a large size because of wingspan, but their wings do not have a lot of weight involved. There are larger and heavier birds in the world, but again, not relevant. They can not carry things that are much heavier than themselves.

I'd presume a goblin is more than 4lb in weight (two bags of sugar), and would be more in the region of 4 stone, if small. So it could never be carried in flight by something weighing only 4 lbs. It would be like putting a donkey on a swan and hoping it could fly. Not only would it not fly, it would be dead.

But as you say, this is fantasy, and if they want to have a 10 stone bat carrying a 4 stone goblin around the skies, that's up to them.

Lol, this thread has really taken on a life of its own! I think we're getting into Monty Python territory: "Listen, in order to maintain airspeed velocity, a swallow (substitute "bat") needs to beat it's wings 43 times every second, right?" . . . Now are we talking an Eriador bat or Rhovanion bat?

(Btw, my earlier post wasn't really suggesting that because Tolkien mentioned bat-riding goblins in the Father Christmas Letters, they belonged in Middle Earth. It was merely pointing out that the brain of Tolkien had conceived such a thing.)

[SavinDwarf]

Ok, I could deal with Rune keepers and Wardens when they were introduced, even though the justification in lore was a stretch. and the guy that teleports in a column of flame was stupid but tolerable. But goblins on bats? No. Please, no.

LOL. Maybe we could escape on a sled pulled by rabbits like Radagast. Now that would be a great new mount LOL