Occult symbols on warden shield

[Franrago]

Hi, i was searching material middle earth blogspot for good outfits ideas and then come across a warden shield with some occult symbols like a pentagram and a snake on a cross.

I would really like to know the relation that those symbols have with middle earth, if they somehow have one. May they represent a faction or another thing??

Maybe some dev from Turbine or SSG thought that it would be a cool design, but i believe it doenst have a place in the middle earth lore, nor that Tolkien would have wanted it.

* I know that he also took references from legends and myths, like elves and dwarves or runes, but he did in mostly a good way and they have a proper place in the story. And they arent dangerous at all.

These are the shields (there must be more, since many things share the same skin):



- Guardman's Warden Shield of Nailan -#Bartered from the Skirmish Camp
- Warden's Shield of the Sentinel - Crafted from the Warden's Shield
of the Sentinel recipe
- Superb Warden's Shield of the Sentinel - Crafted from recipe.

I found these.

[Ulor]

I agree that if these symbols are not in line with canon or have any reference to lore, they should be removed. Designs and patterns are one thing, obvious symbols are another.

[Joedangod]

* I know that he also took references from legends and myths, like elves and dwarves or runes, but he did in mostly a good way and they have a proper place in the story. And they arent dangerous at all.

It's true, ever since equipping one of these shields I have been possessed by the demon Gilgamesh. Whilst he's an alright guy it's clear SSG truly didn't comprehend the forces they were meddling with when they added these shields. For the sake of the children they must be removed.

[Franrago]

It's true, ever since equipping one of these shields I have been possessed by the demon Gilgamesh. Whilst he's an alright guy it's clear SSG truly didn't comprehend the forces they were meddling with when they added these shields. For the sake of the children they must be removed.

Picking one sentence and ignoring the rest... Yes, you contribute a lot to the discussion.
I see you play since 2011, you have one year more than me!! Congrats!!!
With that on mind can i have some of your maturity and less of your trolling since we are grown adults?

I understand that it doesnt matter to you, and the same to more people. But those we care about , being it for IRL reasons, lore keeping, or directly admiration to Tolkien, its important.

Have a good day

[Joedangod]

I understand that it doesnt matter to you, and the same to more people. But those we care about , being it for IRL reasons, lore keeping, or directly admiration to Tolkien, its important.

There's no IRL issue here, it's not an actual occult symbol, at best it pays homage to European symbology. Lorewise...it's not entirely out of place, Christians can hardly claim a symbol as basic as a cross as their own. As for admiration for Tolkein? I can't imagine he'd be upset that American artists are looking towards European influences for the art they add into the game.

Thinking this is a problem is somewhat immature.

[MourneBlade]

There is no place in a game that is rated for children to play where subtle or obvious blatant real life symbolism is displayed...be that Christianity or Satanism.

The game is rated Teen plus. As far as occult symbols that you have no idea about as you claim do some research.

Also do I really need to mention that way back any kind of RPG tabletop game was considered DEVIL WORSHIPPING. Those who played them were considered satan and occult worshippers. Shall we bring back the Inquisition for those who don't believe what you do should be burned at the stake? How about book burning rallies and that you could accuse anyone of anything and have them murdered because they didn't live life how you wanted.

Where are all the people who want drinking, smoking, running around drunk, building snowmen (false idols) and etc...up in arms about this??? How about stomping on small animals, gambling addicts who can't control spending irl money on hobbit prestents, loot boxes, etc....

Pick your battles. Quit trying to police the rest of us. You play in a fantasy Genre, get used to it. This isn't real life.

Okay while I'm at it-nah done with imbeciles on here who need to take offense at anything and everything they can think of. Oh wait I forgot to mention hitting some kids with nerf bats in Rohan was a major upset awhile back.

How about we show some kindness and understanding to orcs, half orcs, giants, undead, etc... they didn't want to be that way. It's just they way they were brought up. So lets all just end war by sitting down with them and sing some campfire songs and have some understanding with eachother. Sauron was a craptastic dad, It's not thier fault!

Killing wildlife-Wow so many have taken up arms against this. Lets get rid of anything and everything having to do with this, including killing baby dragons that will kill dwarves later.

Killing female brigands or any female of anything-where is the up in arms about this?

And last for now-Those Satanic Rune Keepers who use ancient mysticism and symbols to slay thier enemies? calliing on unnatural things to do thier bidding-ya know kinda like the undead, unseen, etc...that call up and reanimate the dead for their bidding.

Lets get rid of all this stuff and have a boring as hell game!!!

[StoatMandible]

Hi, i was searching material middle earth blogspot for good outfits ideas and then come across a warden shield with some occult symbols like a pentagram and a snake on a cross.

I don't mean to be facetious when I say that "penta" means five, but for those who missed it, there appear to be four points. I also don't see a cross: the see a sword (pomell at top, guard running left/right, and long blade obscured by snake).

I do see a snake.

Unless "the occult" has cornered the market on snakes, I think we're looking at something innocuous.

[Tancanspanc]

Nice looking shield.

I wasn't aware of this design so Thanks for spotlighting it.

Think I'll get one for my warden.

kind regards

A 'grown up'.

[TharbadThief]

All of those themes have been in use in all kinds of contexts throughout the centuries. But seeing that particular layout of the snake & cross, to me it seems plausible that the person who drew the shield was a fan of Full Metal Alchemist manga/anime and didn't probably think further than that.

Google "Edward Elric symbol".

[DiannaHimi]

I do not understand the point of this thread.

A minor shield engraving, that might or might not have anything to do with religion or occults, calling it an anti-Tolkien lore, in a game where Black Book of Mordor, Cosmetic Wings, Rune-Keepers and a certain female character in Volume 1 exist?

And if you are so worried about what isn't safe visually, let me kindly point towards Angmar, Dol Guldur, Mordor and so many other in-game locations where literal human sacrifice, symbols drawn with blood, rotten bodies and necromancy is displayed? The game is rated for Teen and I can assure you that our teenagers probably know way more twisted and darker stuff that a barely visible 'possible' pentagram.

However, I would like to thank you for showing the shield, as I find it looking very interesting and can see it fitted with certain cosmetics.

[Hallandil]

I don't mean to be facetious when I say that "penta" means five, but for those who missed it, there appear to be four points. I also don't see a cross: the see a sword (pomell at top, guard running left/right, and long blade obscured by snake).

I do see a snake.

Unless "the occult" has cornered the market on snakes, I think we're looking at something innocuous.

*SNIP*

It's just the ancient symbol for medicine. No doubt meant as a warden shielf meant to aid in healing/defence.

The "Snake on a Cross" symbol no different than an eye or a sword with wings when it comes to random iconography.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nehushtan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caduceus

The version here isn't even "occult" as it ressembles the Judaism icon moreso than the Greek one.

-Even still in a game that uses Norse runes, Elemental avatars of nature, Immortal creatures and talking animals... You're a bit past the point.

The greater issue is the inability to players to separate the fact that this is a ficticious world and beyond any superficial association with real world meanings and imagery.
And that there is the true detail that would irritate Tolkien so, NOT the risk unorthodox and "pagan" (barf at that idiotic word) symbols dare being present in adaptations.

All of those themes have been in use in all kinds of contexts throughout the centuries. But seeing that particular layout of the snake & cross, to me it seems plausible that the person who drew the shield was a fan of Full Metal Alchemist manga/anime and didn't probably think further than that.

Google "Edward Elric symbol".

As Fullmetal Alchemist is heavily influenced by ancient chemistry and medicine, it's no doubt inspired by the Nehushtan/Caduceus

[Hallandil]

I have no experience in matters of the occult and would have never noticed it but if they are Occult symbols then they should be removed.

Carebear brigade has nothing to do with it. If these are occult signs (again I don't know) then they may have been slipped in by a member of staff who did so for any number of reasons or it could just be that they didn't realise what they were. That being said it doesn't make it correct for them not to be addressed as they are uncovered.

Learn social history and realise the nefarious ways subtle hints or dropping things into the everyday slowly corrupts or makes one susceptible to suggestion.

That all being said, if you believe in Christianity then the inverted cross is a symbol of allegedly Peter death and how he didn't feel worthy to be crucified the same way as Christ and so had them invert the cross so he was crucified upside down and has also been adopted by the Popes as their physical manifestation of Peter hereafter. But the snake makes it more sinister in that it does pull it then closer into a sinful state clearly pointing to when the "devil" tempted Eve in the garden of Eden.

There is no place in a game that is rated for children to play where subtle or obvious blatant real life symbolism is displayed...be that Christianity or Satanism.

Quick lessson here, "Occult" is literally just a slur for anything that isn't Christian.

Most of the Satanic Panic in the 1980s comes directly from people listening to rock, metal and reading Fantasy books like Lord of the Rings.

Modern Satanism isn't a cabal to convert people to worshipping Satan but an Athiest movement that pokes fun a Christianity.

Either way, almost the entirely of Lord of the Rings can be considered "Occult" in your above context. This game isn't even directed to Children, it's rated for Teens.

[TharbadThief]

*snip*
As Fullmetal Alchemist is heavily influenced by ancient chemistry and medicine, it's no doubt inspired by the Nehushtan/Caduceus

Sure. But as that snake & cross on that shield is not just any kind of snake and any kind of cross, but actually 1:1 copy of the symbol of the protagonist of FMA, I find it more probable that instead of it being a reference to healing or medicine, the artist knew exactly what and where s/he ripped that logo from.

EDIT: Although, it may also be that the artists occasionally just browse "cool looking symbols" from websites and books, and don't spend that much time thinking of what they are .. but if I worked as a game artist, I sure as heck would like to know the details of the pic I'm going to replicate. That's why I thought it plausible it was a deliberate choice.

[TharbadThief]

Oh, it looks like even the pentagram part is copied as well. I admit, I'm not that well versed in Fullmetal Alchemist, so I don't know if the pic below is fan art or from the actual series, but I do know the exact same snake+cross pattern is on the protagonist's jacket.

Also, I'm not judging .. just hope that SSG reminds their artists not to copy Adidas or Nike logos in their cosmetics, because they'd be sued yesterday.




(source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWRsI6bA8p4 )

[Altair6]

And they arent dangerous at all.

Implying that the ones on the shield are. Best laugh I've had all day.

Don't worry, they won't burn your eyes out or melt your brain or anything. They're just symbols appropriated by stupid people who believe in "the occult".

The pentagram was even, for a time, appropriated by Christians. In cuneiform it's a symbol for a word. Gawain has it as a symbol on his shield (Sir Gawain and the Green Knight). So, is it good or is it bad? (Assuming the question has any meaning at all.)

Sometimes a thing is just a thing.

[Naurduin]

I'd like some of your pipe-weed, sir.

This is the funniest #### I have read in a while.

[Rugongrod]

I'm not worried about the snake on a cross. I'm more concerned that there are triangles. OMG Triangles!

[DavidmeetHal]

.

I thought about this and came back to look at it a second time, and I still see nothing wrong with it, on the contrary, I hope I can use it as a cosmetic. It looks cool.


I really and honestly hate it when someone brings an agenda into a game.

[Starsmith]

...Y'all are getting really upset about a poster asking a question that turned out to be a good one. Imagery yoinked from Full Metal Alchemist probably doesn't belong in any game that isn't related to Full Metal Alchemist.

[afuturestrader]

As the West celebrates the Resurrection - the East using an older calendar does so at the end of the month - many here chose to use the argumentation of choice of school children - mockery.

Personally, I have no idea if the symbol in question represents paganism, satanism or nothing at all. But placing the oldest symbol of Lucifer on or over a cross is bound to raise eyebrows. Unless of course
the serpent is placed underneath the Cross (better yet, a Crucifix) accurately representing what historically happened.

LOTRO's main strengths are its world class story, lore and world building. It has always been my impression these elements are why most remaining players are here. I find the game is much more enjoyable
as one further understands the meaning behind LOTR. Some of the responses suggest a lack of any understanding what the story is really all about.

Mr. Tolkien was a Christian. The religion he practiced would today be called Traditional Roman Catholicism. No Traditional Catholic I have ever met - and I know many - would approve of the symbol in question. Nor
would they white wash the topic as a nothing burger. Nor mock the one who raised questions.

Paganism, occultism and satanism are a serious business and should not be taken lightly. There is a reason the Old Testament Jews had to go to the pagan Romans to get their killing done.

For those who might like to learn more about the symbolism behind LOTR a large number of resources exist. One good starting place might be to search for Joseph Pearce in reference to Lord of the Rings.
Hope that helps some.

The symbol raised by the OP is out of character for LOTR whether placed in LOTRO innocuously or not.

[Hallandil]

Sure. But as that snake & cross on that shield is not just any kind of snake and any kind of cross, but actually 1:1 copy of the symbol of the protagonist of FMA, I find it more probable that instead of it being a reference to healing or medicine, the artist knew exactly what and where s/he ripped that logo from.

EDIT: Although, it may also be that the artists occasionally just browse "cool looking symbols" from websites and books, and don't spend that much time thinking of what they are .. but if I worked as a game artist, I sure as heck would like to know the details of the pic I'm going to replicate. That's why I thought it plausible it was a deliberate choice.

Seeing the circles, geometry and rings behind it too.... lol yeah, that's definitely the same.

F

[Hallandil]

As the West celebrates the Resurrection - Going to snip this here because... yikes.

I'm also certain that as a tenured Oxford Professor of Old English, Ancient Languages and Cultures Tolkien with audibly gag at the term "Pagan"

Maybe leave the Inquisition at the door and remember that this is Tolkien and not CS Lewis.

[SingularityNow]

Mr. Tolkien was a Christian. The religion he practiced would today be called Traditional Roman Catholicism. No Traditional Catholic I have ever met - and I know many - would approve of the symbol in question. Nor
would they white wash the topic as a nothing burger. Nor mock the one who raised questions.

Ya'll can mock all you want, but this snippet right here is the 100% truth. Tolkien was a devout Christian.

[oldsneakers]

you would be surprised...those Satanists are everywhere...lol...


alfa romeo (cross and serpent eating a bloke)



salvation army crest (you really think it is an S?)

[Universal7]

Lord of the Rings is no place for such symbols. There are things which are good and those that aren't. This won't be removed from the game or anything, but calling it out for what it is shines a light and exposes it.

Good job, OP.