Vitality PvMP Essences have been temporarily removed to address balance concerns.

[Snowlock]

From the patch notes for tomorrow's update. Does this mean then that vit on the armor itself was increased?

[Fants_SSG]

From the patch notes for tomorrow's update. Does this mean then that vit on the armor itself was increased?

No


......

[Snowlock]

I spose it's too late to ditch this idea of pvp gear? Vastin put in some kind of a tuning mechanism on creepside, didn't he? Can't you take the % increase provided by the new item level meta and bring creeps up to match?

[ConsistentRager]

I spose it's too late to ditch this idea of pvp gear? Vastin put in some kind of a tuning mechanism on creepside, didn't he? Can't you take the % increase provided by the new item level meta and bring creeps up to match?

bruh

[bjute]

I spose it's too late to ditch this idea of pvp gear? Vastin put in some kind of a tuning mechanism on creepside, didn't he? Can't you take the % increase provided by the new item level meta and bring creeps up to match?

Isn't it good that PVP players are no longer forced to grind PVE to do PVP?

[Snowlock]

Isn't it good that PVP players are no longer forced to grind PVE to do PVP?

For some. I think this is one of those on-paper ideas that seems like it'll work but people will get bored very quickly without some kind of progression to work toward.

[Dranak123]

For some. I think this is one of those on-paper ideas that seems like it'll work but people will get bored very quickly without some kind of progression to work toward.

er.....not me matey. i played moors last year 2/3 nights a week (literally 1.30am to 4.30am cause i am Uk) just to have loads of fun with a bunch of great players (freeps and creeps) and all to get some useless comms and a rank.....worth every minute. Its not about progression...its about the moors.

[ithinkiamserious]

Its not about progression...its about the moors.

Seconded.

[Snowlock]

er.....not me matey. i played moors last year 2/3 nights a week (literally 1.30am to 4.30am cause i am Uk) just to have loads of fun with a bunch of great players (freeps and creeps) and all to get some useless comms and a rank.....worth every minute. Its not about progression...its about the moors.

We'll see.

[sapienze]

Some players forget or never were willing to admit that, many players want to go to the Moors to PvP. Not spend weeks or months grinding PvE to go PvP.

[Snowlock]

Some players forget or never were willing to admit that, many players want to go to the Moors to PvP. Not spend weeks or months grinding PvE to go PvP.

Fight clubs aren't compelling enough to keep people playing long term which is what this gear is made for, Splay. Without some kind of objective based pvp the game dies out.

[Gozog]

Fight clubs aren't compelling enough to keep people playing long term which is what this gear is made for, Splay. Without some kind of objective based pvp the game dies out.

Snowlock, I have to disagree. What will kill the moors is not having enough creeps and freeps for pvp. Played on freep side from 2016 until 2019. Hardly ever completed quests on freep side. Only logged into the moors for pvp. Always.

Different story on creep side. Was tired of the never ending grind on freep side and decided to try out creep side. Didn't mind the short quests on creep side while waiting for freeps to come out. Because on the same server you play on, (Crick) not that many freeps do come out. Over time, the creep population also died out. Why, no pvp. Many left to go to Ark where there is a lot of action in the moors.

[Snowlock]

Snowlock, I have to disagree. What will kill the moors is not having enough creeps and freeps for pvp. Played on freep side from 2016 until 2019. Hardly ever completed quests on freep side. Only logged into the moors for pvp. Always.

Different story on creep side. Was tired of the never ending grind on freep side and decided to try out creep side. Didn't mind the short quests on creep side while waiting for freeps to come out. Because on the same server you play on, (Crick) not that many freeps do come out. Over time, the creep population also died out. Why, no pvp. Many left to go to Ark where there is a lot of action in the moors.

Why don't the freeps come out Gozog? We've fought a handful of times. I'd come out way more if I thought there were creeps out. You're telling me you'd come out more if you thought there were freeps out, right? So if both sides are looking for the other to play, why aren't they?

[MuddledMage]

Hi Snowlock, this is Smellarat from over on Crick.

If you want an idea of why creeps won't come out after this latest example of Lotro experimentation, I'll try to explain it.

For the rest of the readers, this is true of Crickhollow server, not Arky where the populations are drastically different,

There are only 3-4 Creeps that regularly play Crick these days. The PvMP players have left to find larger populations.The population was driven down to a pitiful level by a policy of making sure that any Freep who could get his pals to drag him along on a Raid or two would end up with much better gear. The rest of us got used to adapting our gameplay tp coming out soloing in order to do some PVEing while trying to avoid 2-3 player Freep groups. So PVEing for rank and mat collection to be able to earn Comms for pots etc. became a way of gaming. QWe akso know thta the Moors would see a drmatic rise in new Creeps and Freep players so they could farm Comms.

Yesterday I come out to find that the Devs have decided they needed to invest resources in an Arena for 1v1s that's at the end of nowhere to make it a long time consuming run for us and ride for mounted freeps. But that's OK because they have also decided we creeps can map too fast and in large groups so it's a double degradation of our gameplay...well played. Once again Lotro solves two non-existent problems with one stroke.

So I decided to go check out some OPs and farm some mats. I take my BA and find a nice tree elder that has been pumped full of steroids and has gone from Pay Atention but Not Major level to OH #### he's 10 M now? Suddenly I realize that I'm taking a lot more damage in a hurry than before as well and remember that my Audacity damage mits were nerfed as well. So I make another mental note,,,,I'm burning more pots than I can earn with this quest. Gee thanks Devs, way to encourage my gameplay. I went into TA to farl some Sergeants and lieutenants as I do on a daily basis and gt another nasty awakening...N{CS got a large increase in damage, I got the more Morale they can chew down much faster Gee Devs, you guys don't miss a trick do you?
o
So, here's the pattern we got used to seeing back in the day when LOTRO was determined to keep Freeps overpowered in relation to Creeps while claiming to the Heavens they wanted "balanced play". The good old days are back, piss down or legs and tell us it's raining.

This is not personal but take these factors into consideration and try to explain why Goz and I and a couple of others should spend our time and money helping Lotro make sure your gameplay satisfaction is superior yo ours?

[Snowlock]

Hi Snowlock, this is Smellarat from over on Crick.

If you want an idea of why creeps won't come out after this latest example of Lotro experimentation, I'll try to explain it.

For the rest of the readers, this is true of Crickhollow server, not Arky where the populations are drastically different,

There are only 3-4 Creeps that regularly play Crick these days. The PvMP players have left to find larger populations.The population was driven down to a pitiful level by a policy of making sure that any Freep who could get his pals to drag him along on a Raid or two would end up with much better gear. The rest of us got used to adapting our gameplay tp coming out soloing in order to do some PVEing while trying to avoid 2-3 player Freep groups. So PVEing for rank and mat collection to be able to earn Comms for pots etc. became a way of gaming. QWe akso know thta the Moors would see a drmatic rise in new Creeps and Freep players so they could farm Comms.

Yesterday I come out to find that the Devs have decided they needed to invest resources in an Arena for 1v1s that's at the end of nowhere to make it a long time consuming run for us and ride for mounted freeps. But that's OK because they have also decided we creeps can map too fast and in large groups so it's a double degradation of our gameplay...well played. Once again Lotro solves two non-existent problems with one stroke.

So I decided to go check out some OPs and farm some mats. I take my BA and find a nice tree elder that has been pumped full of steroids and has gone from Pay Atention but Not Major level to OH #### he's 10 M now? Suddenly I realize that I'm taking a lot more damage in a hurry than before as well and remember that my Audacity damage mits were nerfed as well. So I make another mental note,,,,I'm burning more pots than I can earn with this quest. Gee thanks Devs, way to encourage my gameplay. I went into TA to farl some Sergeants and lieutenants as I do on a daily basis and gt another nasty awakening...N{CS got a large increase in damage, I got the more Morale they can chew down much faster Gee Devs, you guys don't miss a trick do you?
o
So, here's the pattern we got used to seeing back in the day when LOTRO was determined to keep Freeps overpowered in relation to Creeps while claiming to the Heavens they wanted "balanced play". The good old days are back, piss down or legs and tell us it's raining.

This is not personal but take these factors into consideration and try to explain why Goz and I and a couple of others should spend our time and money helping Lotro make sure your gameplay satisfaction is superior yo ours?

There are more creeps on Crick than you think. I wouldn't be able to summon much empathy for players unable to solo content that should never had been made soloable in the first place, I'm sorry about that. It seems more like the solution to the issue you're facing is a larger population. The recurring theme on Crick and other small pop servers has been that if x side was out, y side would play too. Which is a catch 22 since neither side has any reason to go. That needs to be fixed.

[MuddledMage]

Let me see...I spend an average of four hours per day on Crick (one of the few advantages of disability...lots of free time); Most days I run into 2-3 Creeps not counting Freep spies at Grams.

If you're seeing a lot more than 3-4 Creeps I'd suggest an Opthamologist.

[Gozog]

Why don't the freeps come out Gozog? We've fought a handful of times. I'd come out way more if I thought there were creeps out. You're telling me you'd come out more if you thought there were freeps out, right? So if both sides are looking for the other to play, why aren't they?

Yes we have had a few times. You can answer that question yourself. On Crick, the majority of creeps transferred to Ark. Just like you left Ark and transferred to Crick. HOM use to have a large active player base, which dwindled until quite a few went to Ark. No reason to play if neither freeps or creeps come out. And too many freep/creeps who log on a creep just to let freeps know where they are located. No fun in that either.

With the current situation for creeps, don't count on that many higher ranked creeps to bother coming out until they allow us to add audacity. It is what it is.

[Gozog]

There are more creeps on Crick than you think. I wouldn't be able to summon much empathy for players unable to solo content that should never had been made soloable in the first place, I'm sorry about that. It seems more like the solution to the issue you're facing is a larger population. The recurring theme on Crick and other small pop servers has been that if x side was out, y side would play too. Which is a catch 22 since neither side has any reason to go. That needs to be fixed.

No, you are mistaken. There are not really that many creeps that come out on a regular basis. Have seen a few new ones rolled out recently. Your suggestions on a "fix" for small server population is not realistic. Especially since you have not been playing on Crick in the moors for that long.

Incentive - that is the issue. On both sides. When you have a mass exodus to a different server (Ark/Land) what do you expect? I have no issue with adding incentives for freeps (gear etc for the moors), however don't halt/nerf the creeps at the same time. That is not a win-win situation. Do you play a creep?

[Snowlock]

No, you are mistaken. There are not really that many creeps that come out on a regular basis. Have seen a few new ones rolled out recently. Your suggestions on a "fix" for small server population is not realistic. Especially since you have not been playing on Crick in the moors for that long.

Incentive - that is the issue. On both sides. When you have a mass exodus to a different server (Ark/Land) what do you expect? I have no issue with adding incentives for freeps (gear etc for the moors), however don't halt/nerf the creeps at the same time. That is not a win-win situation. Do you play a creep?

I do. We have played together even. I may not have been on crick that long, but I was on Brandy amongst other servers. I get around. They have the same issues as Crick. These aren't server specific problems other than there's Ark & Evernight and then everyone else. They're fixed in the same manner. Add incentives for one of the sides to increase traffic and the other side will come to fight them. Get them to stay after they acquired the incentives by reverting changes made to the map that were designed to chase casual pvp'ers away.

Many that play now are the descendants of the 2nd generation of pvp'ers. The 1st gen were the launch guys that wandered into PVP and were playing for 1 or 2 points of renown/infamy per kill and a high rank was 6. But the 2nd generation was when the population exploded and lots of people played in the moors. The reason that happened was because of pvp gear and the Delving. PVP gear required delving stones, the delving required three keeps to open and freeps went after the gear because it was competitive with Rift gear and players rolled creeps to stop them.

Even long after that gear was obsolete, the players continued because of the experiences they had after they decided to give it a try.

That's what we need now. Some kind of incentive to bring people to the moors then let human nature take its course all the while providing an infrastructure to the game via map improvements where the noobs that would come, would have some kind of competitive chance and hopefully enjoy themselves and continue to play.

[MuddledMage]

While it's nice to imagine noobs being drawn to the Moors, let's see what happens when we roll new Creeps and invite them to the land of 550K slugs, multiple NPCs and level 1 skills.

OK roll a Warg and see for yourself. IF you try I don't think anyone will entertain the idea that the current setup does anything to attract new players.

[Snowlock]

While it's nice to imagine noobs being drawn to the Moors, let's see what happens when we roll new Creeps and invite them to the land of 550K slugs, multiple NPCs and level 1 skills.

OK roll a Warg and see for yourself. IF you try I don't think anyone will entertain the idea that the current setup does anything to attract new players.

I don't think anyone was advocating for 550k slugs, likely a scaling bug which might suggest all of the increases to npcs you're seeing could be that.

[MuddledMage]

Yeah...scaling bugs, like the Elder Trolls being 12M in the OPs, the Bosses in the Keeps, Drakes being 6M vs 2.9M. Not to mention the main guys in OR and DG making Gary look wimpish? BTW don'
t go to sleep in the Mine anymore...the Talons got new claws.

[Areyekuwe]

I spose it's too late to ditch this idea of pvp gear? Vastin put in some kind of a tuning mechanism on creepside, didn't he? Can't you take the % increase provided by the new item level meta and bring creeps up to match?

It will get ditched for next update. No worries, this is how it always went with the devs. Now it is here.

We had a bunch of people come on on freep side. And a better coordinated creep raid of about 8 to actually about 8 can stand ground and have good fights.

When they get to raid gear creeps will be in trouble.

At the moment there seems a number of old timers on freep side that came to try and see what it is all about. Be VERY interesting to inspect these freeps and see what they were wearing.

Good activity so far. And yes creeps will need a bump in a month or so. For sure.

[Areyekuwe]

I don't think anyone was advocating for 550k slugs, likely a scaling bug which might suggest all of the increases to npcs you're seeing could be that.

Moors is not 100% easy mode with this update.

New NPC morale and damage is hard to get used to, because for a while we would just run through them.

Good change that got some right scaling done.

Now just wait for freeps and their new raid gear and Moors will turn into a real difficult challenge.