Getting in to Gundabad.

[Feldanor]

I may be wrong but at the moment it seems the only way to access the new content is either having done old content or mithril coins. Considering we have paid for this expansion why not make the quests available for everyone, no matter their completion on old content. I personally did it on one char but found it pretty boring. Now I cant even access new stuff without either paying more, or doing old trash content.

Am i missing something or are SSG just a bunch of moronic idiots? At the moment this update is off to a bad start for me since i now have to do stuff that isnt really good content for me, especially after having already completed it on another char.

Please let anyone pick up the quests SSG. Don't be idiots.

[OldMadeOfLions]

Please let anyone pick up the quests SSG. Don't be idiots.

Despite your asking so nicely, I am actually looking into making Chapter 5 an on-ramp for Legacy of Durin.

If you can't wait, you can probably use the Car Bronach entrance to get inside.

MoL

[Feldanor]

Well that would be a nice change. Thankyou if it happens.

[Strider5548]

Despite your asking so nicely

LOL

[Pavlin]

1 mithril. Done

[Feldanor]

1 mithril. Done

Shouldnt have to do that to access paid content.

[Draugris]

Despite your asking so nicely, I am actually looking into making Chapter 5 an on-ramp for Legacy of Durin.

If you can't wait, you can probably use the Car Bronach entrance to get inside.

MoL

I mean do you really wonder why people aks so "nicely" I spent more than an hour now to figure out where i have to go to get into gundabad. I have a quest "Gundabad awaits" , i checked Durin inside Annak-khurfu and Zarkul-sulun he has no quest for me. The Lord of Gundabad quest is also not there, i think i did that quest already. I have absolutely no clue how to move forward. Why do you create such frustrating experiences?

[OldMadeOfLions]

The Lord of Gundabad quest is also not there, i think i did that quest already. I have absolutely no clue how to move forward.

Here's how to find out: look in your quest log, click 'Show Completed,' and scroll down to The Legacy of Durin and the Trials of the Dwarves. Find the highest number quest you've completed -- if you did complete 'Chapter 4.9, The Lord of Gundabad,' it'll be in the list; otherwise you haven't.

As for your other question ('why do you create such frustrating experiences?') it's because a videogame is a very complex machine with a lot of moving parts, and we can't say for certain that everyone has had the same experiences in-game, or knows where to look when they get stuck. In this particular case, we figured that if you were interested in the storyline, you would have done the previous chapters, and if you didn't you might use the Car Bronach entrances (from Elderslade or from Angmar), since you don't care about going in the front entrance with Durin. Maybe that wasn't a safe assumption! So I'm looking into letting you jump right in at 5.1.

MoL

[LagunaD2]

Despite your asking so nicely, I am actually looking into making Chapter 5 an on-ramp for Legacy of Durin.

Nice.

Because you previously flat-out refused when we pleaded for this in beta, I bit the bullet and re-ran this five more times last week so my alts could access the expansion. I don't imagine I was alone. That's 17-18 hours of doing something I absolutely didn't want to do, and didn't enjoy, because you told us there would be no alternative.

And now, lo and behold, there will be an alternative after all...

It's good that you're correcting the initial bad choice; it's a pity that the epiphany took so long.

[OldMadeOfLions]

It's good that you're correcting the initial bad choice; it's a pity that the epiphany took so long.

Well, I still think you should play all that stuff, because you love dwarves and dwarf stories so much.

MoL

[Crell_1]

Well, I still think you should play all that stuff, because you love dwarves and dwarf stories so much.

MoL

Personally, I've played through it once. I've played through it multiple times. (Generally at least on my main 2 characters) Like movies/shows/books I appreciate being able to jump in and out at the parts I really enjoy. Thats why things have skip to 'chapter' functions

[Laurelinarien]

While I think we need more on-ramps in OLD epic content.. I do agree with MoL that this wasn't a long quest chain to complete.

Also, the problem with getting into Gundabad without having the main storyline is mainly aggravated by the fact that the Mission stable-master had Steepset's location locked. I do hope this changes soon coz lower lvl toons can't access missions & allegiance, which defeats the purpose of making them scale.

And tbh I'd also remove the quest requirement to use the teleport item. I'm not a fan of having to be VIP for the War of 3 peaks table but these paid teleports have lesser value due to those specific requirements.

[Crell_1]

While I think we need more on-ramps in OLD epic content.. I do agree with MoL that this wasn't a long quest chain to complete.

There are larger sections without an on ramp, but I feel at the very least each paid expansion should have its own

[FrootLoops]

Here's how to find out: look in your quest log, click 'Show Completed,' and scroll down to The Legacy of Durin and the Trials of the Dwarves. Find the highest number quest you've completed -- if you did complete 'Chapter 4.9, The Lord of Gundabad,' it'll be in the list; otherwise you haven't.

As for your other question ('why do you create such frustrating experiences?') it's because a videogame is a very complex machine with a lot of moving parts, and we can't say for certain that everyone has had the same experiences in-game, or knows where to look when they get stuck. In this particular case, we figured that if you were interested in the storyline, you would have done the previous chapters, and if you didn't you might use the Car Bronach entrances (from Elderslade or from Angmar), since you don't care about going in the front entrance with Durin. Maybe that wasn't a safe assumption! So I'm looking into letting you jump right in at 5.1.

MoL

You are acting like EVERY SINGLE PREVIOUS EXPANSION for this game hasn't been accessible straight away to everyone, why would you change that I think is peoples main frustration or at the very least you could of let people know in more detail that they need to do this quests WEEKS in advance not in the patch notes on release day.

[LagunaD2]

I do agree with MoL that this wasn't a long quest chain to complete.

It's almost 3.5 hours (3 hours and 20 minutes to be more precise).

Now multiply that by 7 alts (and 3 mains) and it's almost a day and a half.

[Wolfhead]

I hadn't fully completed the previous quest line and I can't tell you how annoyed I was to run through a lot of hoops in order to play an expansion I ALREADY PAID FOR!!!

[istvana]

I hope I don't lose too many hard-earned fanboi points for this - but Wolfhead has a point. People that pay possibly over $100 for an expansion *should* be able to play it if they are at the proper level. Even if they haven't played the storylines that lead up to it.

Just as I could have bought book three in the LoTR trilogy without having read any prior book or knowing the difference between a hobbit and an orc.

I have bought many sequels that told me what came before and encouraged me to read them. There is no reason a MMO expansion cannot do the same. My loss if I choose to ignore the advice.

[Seregthol]

I hope I don't lose too many hard-earned fanboi points for this - but Wolfhead has a point. People that pay possibly over $100 for an expansion *should* be able to play it if they are at the proper level. Even if they haven't played the storylines that lead up to it.

This.

To not be able to jump into the new Epic is one thing. But when a customer pays for the new landscape content...and it's STILL a pain to even travel to the content they payed for...that's just frustrating.

[OldMadeOfLions]

You are acting like EVERY SINGLE PREVIOUS EXPANSION for this game hasn't been accessible straight away to everyone...

Well, that's not true: I was actually thinking about the Minas Morgul expansion, where we require you to complete 'Interlude: Shades In The Swamp' before you start Mordor Besieged, and that zone isn't actually contiguous and walktoable in the same way that Gundabad is. But I hear you -- I'm aiming to make Chapter 5 an on-ramp, so if you haven't completed LoD 1-4 you won't have to; just try to ignore the fact that you're getting into Gundabad all out of order, without any of the setup or the obstacles of the War of Three Peaks, and if any of the phasing gets wonky in there out of order, try to ignore it. If you're cool with it, I'm cool with it. Mostly!

I'll keep these learnings in mind for future expansions, and if it means we get the Two Halbarads of Lhanuch again I guess I'll have to live with it.

MoL

[Faudyen]

Well, that's not true: I was actually thinking about the Minas Morgul expansion, where we require you to complete 'Interlude: Shades In The Swamp' before you start Mordor Besieged, and that zone isn't actually contiguous and walktoable in the same way that Gundabad is. But I hear you -- I'm aiming to make Chapter 5 an on-ramp, so if you haven't completed LoD 1-4 you won't have to; just try to ignore the fact that you're getting into Gundabad all out of order, without any of the setup or the obstacles of the War of Three Peaks, and if any of the phasing gets wonky in there out of order, try to ignore it. If you're cool with it, I'm cool with it. Mostly!

I'll keep these learnings in mind for future expansions, and if it means we get the Two Halbarads of Lhanuch again I guess I'll have to live with it.

MoL

Thank you for looking into this.

[Wyllshire]

This.

To not be able to jump into the new Epic is one thing. But when a customer pays for the new landscape content...and it's STILL a pain to even travel to the content they payed for...that's just frustrating.

This is just beyond ridiculous! Do you Devs any idea how many players are upset over this? Who ever thought this was a good idea?

[Seregthol]

It's good that you're correcting the initial bad choice; it's a pity that the epiphany took so long.

Couldn't have said it better.

[WeirdJedi]

This reminds me of a strange case I encountered once in World Chat. A person was being very belligerent against the game, the company, and the developers. He started making a list of demands which essentially boiled down to a full refund with an apology. The server repeatedly tried asking him what was wrong between each line of dialogue, but he continued with his rant for a couple minutes. Finally, we found out the problem. He bought the Collector's Edition of Minas Morgul and was angry he couldn't go straight into the Remmorchant raid... as a freshly-made level 120. That was the problem. That was what he was angry about.

I understand both sides of this situation. The developers make all this wonderful content, establish criteria that helps people along inside the Epic, and people want to do everything in their power to skip it. The more characters a person has, the more someone will view the content as "a grind" or obstacle that prevents them from getting to the level cap. If people weren't willing to do a few chapters for each of their characters, can you imagine how people would feel if they found out they could get something really nice in the Epilogue that required completion of all the previous chapters? We'd have the Ill Omens Fiasco for the portents all over again.

I don't mind if you lock Chapter 5 behind the previous chapters. I don't mind you locking entry into Gundabad behind completing the first four chapters. But with the housing decoration completely vulnerable to the same conditions, the current problem with the mission stable being locked for people, and not having anything established to show us how to get through the back way, the best compromise would be at least allowing people to jump start inside.

[CaerArianrhod]

[...] we figured that if you were interested in the storyline, you would have done the previous chapters, and if you didn't you might use the Car Bronach entrances (from Elderslade or from Angmar), since you don't care about going in the front entrance with Durin. Maybe that wasn't a safe assumption! So I'm looking into letting you jump right in at 5.1.

MoL

Well, I still think you should play all that stuff, because you love dwarves and dwarf stories so much.

MoL

Despite your asking so nicely, I am actually looking into making Chapter 5 an on-ramp for Legacy of Durin.

If you can't wait, you can probably use the Car Bronach entrance to get inside.

MoL

[...] But I hear you -- I'm aiming to make Chapter 5 an on-ramp, so if you haven't completed LoD 1-4 you won't have to; just try to ignore the fact that you're getting into Gundabad all out of order, without any of the setup or the obstacles of the War of Three Peaks, and if any of the phasing gets wonky in there out of order, try to ignore it. If you're cool with it, I'm cool with it. Mostly!

I'll keep these learnings in mind for future expansions, and if it means we get the Two Halbarads of Lhanuch again I guess I'll have to live with it.

MoL

This is not that much about not as not want to play the game or just ignoring some content (well maybe for some players). I think it is for many players rather a question "how much time I am able to spent on repeated questing".
If I am looking at the players in my raid and my friends ... all of us have in real-time more than enough to do(you know: job, family etc. etc.), so there is a certain amount of time one can spend to play the game.

Just take me: I have 10 level 130 characters, 9 of them are (or better to say now: they have been) raid ready. The 10th is a Brawler, but the class is not raid ready at all.
A couple of years ago, I quested with all of my frequently played characters through all quests in all areas. Now? That is just impossible. Not only because the number of my characters increased, but mostly because the requirements to be raid-ready has been dramatically increased in the game. To say it clear: the level of grind (the necessity of doing repetitive content for very few rewards) have been increased over the past couple of years in such a significant amount, that it makes more than very hard (nearly impossible) to quest through everything with each character.

Now, just 2 of my characters are done with Azanulbizar. Another two are ready to start it. Another one is at the start of the 3 Peaks and one if half through the Wells of Langflood. That are my 6 old character I used to quests through with. That I am not finished with them with the old content, is definitely not because I would spend less time in the game, but because we need to grind 3 or 4 times more to get the same amount of rewards out of the game as before. And I am thinking about to skip the 3 Peaks entirely with that 3 of my characters.

Just one example: look at the state of the game and what we have to do to max out a new legendary weapon:
One of the promises of the new legendary system was, that it will solve the problems around the "Anfalas Scrolls". (well ... one could say it solved it, since no more anfalas scrolls are needed for an LI)
But look at the new system: to max out two old LIs, one needed about 420 anfalas scrolls. A really, really huge amount just for one character and for one set. But the LI was usable from level 100 up to level 130.
Now with the new system for two LIs only for the level-range of 131-140 we need 575 enhancement runes! And I am sure SSG will offer 5-10 levels more for the LIs when the raid comes out, and that means 115-230 more enhancement runes.
At level 134 I barely got any of the enhancement runes for questing and that means that SSG is expecting us to get them trough daily and weekly repeatable quest: Say: trough grind.
Not only that, but instead only one type of scrolls, we need now tree different types of them AND we need to play RNG to get the traceries we would like to have. That's not funny at all!

Maybe this all is not your part in the job, but it is affecting questing and the motivation running through the landscape and questing with a couple of characters. Being able to skip "old" content is now a kind of necessity. Beside the fact that some sequences are for sure very interesting (like Nár's story), they are not so interesting anymore after two or three times in "a row", regardless how much time it took to create it or to test it.

When we need to maintain a spreadsheet to keep track of which character did which dailies or weeklies and what is resetting on which day, just not to miss the only resource to get our stuff ...well, that is rather looks and feels like a job but not something for a relaxing evening.
People "ask nicely" not because we would be such rude per se, but because we are frustrated how half done is everything, how bad the game is performing ... just to name two things, but you know them all.

This time was the first time ever that I did not buy the deluxe package for an expansion. Regardless, that it is highly overpriced it is meaning less. It offers me personally absolutely nothing. I bought the middle package just because I wanted to play a Brawler at level 130, but I had NULL motivation to quest trough everything with it. And if SSG fallow the path to turn LOTRO into an asia-grinder it may be the last expansion ever that I bought.

[Norliriel]

...the fact that the Mission stable-master had Steepset's location locked. I do hope this changes soon coz lower lvl toons can't access missions & allegiance, which defeats the purpose of making them scale.

This is what bothers me too. I didn't mind being "forced" to play through the storyline on my lvl 130 characters, but if you make something accessible to low-level characters, it needs to actually be accessible to low-level characters.