Monster Play Changes in Bullroarer 3

[SSG_Orion]

Hullo again,

While we are all patiently waiting for the next round of Bullroarer testing, I thought it best to put out a quick primer on the changes that you can expect to see in the upcoming release.

Isendeep Mine

A few small changes to the Grodris fight for consistency and stability. This means she will fight more effectively against you. Beware, she is not a fan of staying with one target and will happily spread her ire around the entire gathered forces. Of course, if you are alone, she will happily blast you.

Announcements

Announcements are now properly set-up and displaying for the different stages of the Isendeep. Each side will receive a specialized announcement when Grodris is ready to fight and when she is defeated.

Map Indicator

The map indicator now properly updates to display what faction currently controls the Isendeep mine. Free People, Angmar, or contested.

Buffs

Controlling the mine with your faction now provides the following for 6 hours:

• Special travel shortcuts, denoted by flags at your main base; Gramsfoot for monser players and Glán Vraig for Free Peoples. Using these flags, tansports you to a random location NEAR the tower at either Lugazag or Tirith Rhaw.
• While your faction controls the Isendeep Mine, you will earn a greater amount of infamy/renown, and commendations.

New Free People entering the Ettenmoors Experience

Free People, newly arrived arrived to the Ettenmoors, are presented with a short tutorial style experience that allows them to learn the secondary accessway out of Glán Vraig, and at the completion of the quest rewards them with a new skill allowing them to travel back to Glán Vraig.

New Player Quests and Rewards

As part of the changes we added two new weekly quests to the Free Player experience.



In the image above, which happens to be the second weekly quest's rewards, there are a number of highlights I want to call out.

Battle-altering quests are those like taking control of a tower, or defeating Grodris. Kill quests are any quests, whether location based or not that are direct conflict with monster players. Supporting quests are all other quests in the Ettenmoors, and even include the kill quests - for this reason, we are likely to increase the number of the supporting quests before we push this change to live, but wanted to get a feel for the reward structure.

Increased Renown is a significant amount of renown for the player completing the quest. Rewards are identical for each quest completion.

Legendary item experience is a very, very large amount. The first completion is higher than the second completion, but both weekly rewards contribute to advancement on the Legendary item Reward Track.

Ettenmoors Spoils, extra spoils in the case of the second completion, are identical and let you choose from consumable restoratives for Ettenmoors use or, crafting materials for your account.

Ettenmoors tracery chests rewards are weighted to give a spread of rare, incomparable, and legendary traceries for your class. The first completion of the quest breaks down to a 20% chance to get a rare tracery, a ~75% chance to get an incomparable tracery, and a ~5% chance to get a legendary tracery. The second completion offers a 4% chance to get a rare tracery, an 88% chance to get an incomparable tracery, and an 8% chance to get a legendary tracery.

Lastly, the Virtue Experience rewards are higher in the first completion and lower in the second completion, giving you another large amount of Virtue experience for completing both weekly Ettenmoors quests.

Other Changes

We fixed some bugs to hide quests that should no longer be available.

Power Changes were implemented to change the power pools for monsters players to be more consistent with their freep counterparts.

Additionally, we have done a pass on all monster player skill power costs. Our initial pass is conservative so that we can more finely tune the new spend of power in the Ettenmoors.

Up Next

More Bug Fixing.

[Elmagor]

Can we change % to get tracery to % to get tracery token? Who will spend huge amount of time in the Moors to get gold BPE tracery?

[Neinda]

Do the creeps get the same rewards to be used on the PVE side of the account? Will creeps now earn xp toward the reward track? Last question: are there alternative quests for the servers outside of Arkenstone and Evernight that are more appropriate for the population of the smaller servers?

[Strider5548]

Other Changes

We fixed some bugs to hide quests that should no longer be available.

I may be misremembering, but I thought you mentioned that Isendeep quests will still be available just in a different place. Is this not the case, and are we going to lose some existing quests in the Moors?

[SSG_Orion]

Do the creeps get the same rewards to be used on the PVE side of the account? Will creeps now earn xp toward the reward track? Last question: are there alternative quests for the servers outside of Arkenstone and Evernight that are more appropriate for the population of the smaller servers?

We have not put in the incentivization quests for the monster player side yet. It is likely that it will not happen for the release of the next update, but rather for an interim release or the next larger release at latest. The long and short, is that we are currently formulating a more fitting reward for the monster player side.

[SSG_Orion]

I may be misremembering, but I thought you mentioned that Isendeep quests will still be available just in a different place. Is this not the case, and are we going to lose some existing quests in the Moors?

For the moment, these quests are not available. They will return; it may just take a little while longer.

[SSG_Orion]

Can we change % to get tracery to % to get tracery token? Who will spend huge amount of time in the Moors to get gold BPE tracery?

The short answer is no.

Not trying to be flippant or coy, here.

There is a fine line between providing alternatives and incentives, and creating what would be perceived as "must play" content.

[Strider5548]

For the moment, these quests are not available. They will return; it may just take a little while longer.

Got it, thanks very much for your responsiveness on these threads!

[Elmagor]

The short answer is no.

Not trying to be flippant or coy, here.

There is a fine line between providing alternatives and incentives, and creating what would be perceived as "must play" content.

Ok, I understand what you don't want to force people "farm" Ettens for gold tracery, it's fine.

[auximenes]

Hullo again,
New Player Quests and Rewards

*Godzilla having a stroke meme*

Can you have a pass at the text on those objectives? Also, all quests that qualify as one of these types of quests should state so in the quest text.

Suggestion:

- Complete 'battle-altering' Ettenmoors quests (0/5)
- Complete 'kill-enemy' Ettenmoors quests (0/10)
- Complete 'support' Ettenmoors quests (0/20)

[Arabani]

Could we please have an option to turn PvP icons/frames/signatures/no idea how they are called off? At least outside the pvp zone? I'd like to explore Ettens, and now there are virtue and LI experience and a chance for legendary items, but I absolutly dislike a pvp icon next to a character frame that appears after one gets the first rank. So I never go in Ettenmoors, not to get that irritating icon.

It would be really nice if there were an option to turn it on and off.

[elvenes]

when's beta 3? tomorrow?

[ScoobySnackz]

We have not put in the incentivization quests for the monster player side yet. It is likely that it will not happen for the release of the next update, but rather for an interim release or the next larger release at latest. The long and short, is that we are currently formulating a more fitting reward for the monster player side.

Ofc you didnt answer the question about the smaller servers that you killed off. But you never want to discuss that topic.

[Pewpewmidget]

The short answer is no.

Not trying to be flippant or coy, here.

There is a fine line between providing alternatives and incentives, and creating what would be perceived as "must play" content.

Nothing but BPE traceries is quite an incentive... If you were trying to sell me this, I would not buy it.
People prefer to do stuff when they know what they are getting so a tracery token being rewarded is incentive.

[Breguilas]

Hullo again,

While we are all patiently waiting for the next round of Bullroarer testing, I thought it best to put out a quick primer on the changes that you can expect to see in the upcoming release.

Isendeep Mine

A few small changes to the Grodris fight for consistency and stability. This means she will fight more effectively against you. Beware, she is not a fan of staying with one target and will happily spread her ire around the entire gathered forces. Of course, if you are alone, she will happily blast you.

Announcements

Announcements are now properly set-up and displaying for the different stages of the Isendeep. Each side will receive a specialized announcement when Grodris is ready to fight and when she is defeated.

Map Indicator

The map indicator now properly updates to display what faction currently controls the Isendeep mine. Free People, Angmar, or contested.

Buffs

Controlling the mine with your faction now provides the following for 6 hours:

• Special travel shortcuts, denoted by flags at your main base; Gramsfoot for monser players and Glán Vraig for Free Peoples. Using these flags, tansports you to a random location NEAR the tower at either Lugazag or Tirith Rhaw.
• While your faction controls the Isendeep Mine, you will earn a greater amount of infamy/renown, and commendations.

New Free People entering the Ettenmoors Experience

Free People, newly arrived arrived to the Ettenmoors, are presented with a short tutorial style experience that allows them to learn the secondary accessway out of Glán Vraig, and at the completion of the quest rewards them with a new skill allowing them to travel back to Glán Vraig.

New Player Quests and Rewards

As part of the changes we added two new weekly quests to the Free Player experience.



In the image above, which happens to be the second weekly quest's rewards, there are a number of highlights I want to call out.

Battle-altering quests are those like taking control of a tower, or defeating Grodris. Kill quests are any quests, whether location based or not that are direct conflict with monster players. Supporting quests are all other quests in the Ettenmoors, and even include the kill quests - for this reason, we are likely to increase the number of the supporting quests before we push this change to live, but wanted to get a feel for the reward structure.

Increased Renown is a significant amount of renown for the player completing the quest. Rewards are identical for each quest completion.

Legendary item experience is a very, very large amount. The first completion is higher than the second completion, but both weekly rewards contribute to advancement on the Legendary item Reward Track.

Ettenmoors Spoils, extra spoils in the case of the second completion, are identical and let you choose from consumable restoratives for Ettenmoors use or, crafting materials for your account.

Ettenmoors tracery chests rewards are weighted to give a spread of rare, incomparable, and legendary traceries for your class. The first completion of the quest breaks down to a 20% chance to get a rare tracery, a ~75% chance to get an incomparable tracery, and a ~5% chance to get a legendary tracery. The second completion offers a 4% chance to get a rare tracery, an 88% chance to get an incomparable tracery, and an 8% chance to get a legendary tracery.

Lastly, the Virtue Experience rewards are higher in the first completion and lower in the second completion, giving you another large amount of Virtue experience for completing both weekly Ettenmoors quests.

Other Changes

We fixed some bugs to hide quests that should no longer be available.

Up Next

More Bug Fixing.

Exciting stuff! Looking forward to all the stuff thats planned for the moors in the future!

[SjsharksBoy]

Could the Virtue XP reward be changed to a Virtue XP consumable? (https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Ite...C000_Virtue_XP)

That way, we don't have to waste that Virtue XP if we are already at cap.

I'd love this change for other weekly wrapper quests as well, but I suppose that is for a different thread.

[Pewpewmidget]

I'd love this change for other weekly wrapper quests as well, but I suppose that is for a different thread.

This sounds to me the best approach to the virtue grind. Consumables over rewarded VXP that can and will inevitably get wasted.
I would also go as far as suggesting to add VXP consumable rewards to past endgame content for only players in that level range.
Ex. Minas Morgul wrappers will give VXP consumables until the wrappers turn gray at level 137. And yes, this is for a different thread.

[Dranak123]

Nothing but BPE traceries is quite an incentive... If you were trying to sell me this, I would not buy it.
People prefer to do stuff when they know what they are getting so a tracery token being rewarded is incentive.

agreed...a token of some name or other (there must be some comical token names for the moors , but i am currently stone cold sober and an example escapes me) that could be exchanged cheaply for common rewards and very expensively for specifically desirable rewards may set the tone with regards to player motivation and game balance.

[SjsharksBoy]

This sounds to me the best approach to the virtue grind. Consumables over rewarded VXP that can and will inevitably get wasted.

Yeah, just to bring it back to the MP wrappers, I would avoid playing freepside on my main as he's right near the VXP cap. I'm probably not the only one would would avoid doing this, instead playing on an alt who still needs extra VXP or avoiding the Moors altogether.

This would be counterintuitive to SSG's goal of trying to bring more people to the Moors.

[SSG_Orion]

I do see the feedback that there is a preference for moving VXP to a consumable.

It is unlikely that the VXP rewarded from the weekly Ettenmoors quests will be turned into a consumable, for the same reason that we will likely avoid provideing tokens in the tracery reward. While we want to incentivize and reward dedicated play in the Ettenmoors, our objective is not to make it the best way to acquire certain advancement, or item rewards.

[SjsharksBoy]

I do see the feedback that there is a preference for moving VXP to a consumable.

It is unlikely that the VXP rewarded from the weekly Ettenmoors quests will be turned into a consumable, for the same reason that we will likely avoid provideing tokens in the tracery reward. While we want to incentivize and reward dedicated play in the Ettenmoors, our objective is not to make it the best way to acquire certain advancement, or item rewards.

Mission wrappers (both the 15 and 45 quest ones) already give those consumables as a reward instead of straight VXP, so this would not be the only wrapper quest with a VXP consumable.

Interestingly, other wrappers (such as the Hiddenhoard weekly or the "Reclaiming the Mountainhold" weekly) do not. Orion, are there specific reasons why different wrappers have these different types of VXP rewards or was it just a case of two developers working on two different quests and not coordinating the reward items?

I would love a change where ALL wrapper VXP rewards are changed to Mission-type VXP rewards, that way the Moors wouldn't be the best/easiest way to acquire VXP after all!

[Treliarhs]

Orion since you see here. Is it possible for old rank 15 players to ask a GM to get us to rank 0 again ? But we keep the buffs of r 15 ?

[Elmagor]

Mission wrappers (both the 15 and 45 quest ones) already give those consumables as a reward instead of straight VXP, so this would not be the only wrapper quest with a VXP consumable.

Interestingly, other wrappers (such as the Hiddenhoard weekly or the "Reclaiming the Mountainhold" weekly) do not. Orion, are there specific reasons why different wrappers have these different types of VXP rewards or was it just a case of two developers working on two different quests and not coordinating the reward items?

I would love a change where ALL wrapper VXP rewards are changed to Mission-type VXP rewards, that way the Moors wouldn't be the best/easiest way to acquire VXP after all!

I think they made that decision because they don't want to see players farm Moors to stack VXP/tokens for their main characters

[SSG_Orion]

Orion since you see here. Is it possible for old rank 15 players to ask a GM to get us to rank 0 again ? But we keep the buffs of r 15 ?

I think it should be pretty clear why we would not do this.

[Saruman_Of_Numbers]

Orion since you are here, Is it possible for HTF to be disabled in the moors?



okok but seriously: good changes that will incrementally boost engagement in PVMP and alleviate some of the worst PVE grind aspects of having a freep character.

But I highly suspect that the Gordoris fight itself is going to heavily favor creeps and I'm willing to bet that about 70-80% of Gordoris kills will be by creeps, and any fights that happen during the Gordoris fight will be heavily tilted in favor of creeps due to a slew healing and mitigation dynamics which I won't exposit on here.

Basically all mechanics of the fight favor a typical creep 24 man over a typical freep 24 man and especially when both are present in the same location.