Feature Article Feedback:Warden Mastery

[gildhur]

You had me with the Warden up until the rapid travel.
So lets see, they get good ranged attack as well as melee, they get rapid travel, they get a moving stealth ability ( which is the one that blows me away, hunters do not even get that we have to stand still for ours, and we are suppose to be able to sneak up on things or my definition of a hunter is flawed.) and with stealth they get medium armor and a shield, and self heal. So much for hunters being needed in groups anymore wait until the first Wardens start hitting 60. Spent a lot of time and effort working my hunter up, nice to have made obsolete in one expansion.
Sigh I was looking forward to this class, now all I see is a uber-toon that can fit all rolls expect caster and group healer. I thought they would at lest make them balanced with the other classes, I really see nothing of being balanced.

Hunter is a DPS class. Warden is not. They look to have more ranged damage than Guardians and Champions, but in order for that to be true, all they would need is two ranged skills. Hardly trampling on Hunters toes here. The diary also said that the stealth was "short term", so it's probably not a tobble like Burglars or even Hunters. And since when do you need to "sneak up on" anything as a Hunter. If you need to camo, camo, but there's no reason to move. Just camo, queue up HS, and BLAM. They also get rapid SOLO travel, not group travel. Hunters still rule that roost.

I said it in the RK threads, and I'll say it here. How about you play one first before you start pulling your hair out that your precious pet class is being overshadowed?

[AceItcher]

Actually, the way it's described, it's exactly the opposite.

I read it the way the other poster did. Groups of each type of skill.

"Every time you use one of those core attack skills, you build toward a potential Gambit." I read 'core attack skill' to mean type. I think in the table they just gave an example of those skills. I have a hard time believing that they would implement this gambit system and then give you only 3 skills that will ever contribute to it. Plus, when describing the gambit it talks about 'alternating between shield and fist icons' and not 'X spear skill and Y fist skill'. So, it implies to me there are multiple ways to make a fist or shield. Obviously, we don't know for sure. Just seems like logic to me. I wouldn't ever read any of these class descriptions and think you are getting exact info.

Also, to those hunters worried about Warden's fast travel, they can only go to 4 places. "Eventually a Warden is able to Muster in Esteldín, Evendim, Ost Guruth, and Rivendell." Once you hit level 60, how often will you be going to the first 3 places? Maybe to craft in Esteldin.

I like the description of this class. But rather than say they are over-powered or out of balance because their ability to do so many things, I wonder if they will be diluted to the point of not being able to do anything overly well. Granted having flexbility is great but how often is it required to drastically change roles on the fly? Not so often. And if you do its only because something went wrong (tank died, stuff broke mez, etc.)

If you enjoy playing whatever class you are playing, why would you enjoy it less simply because someone else has a similar but inferior skill?

[Ato7]

We know that they have some ability to heal themselves, but I wonder if it is on par with the single self-heals with a cooldown that many other classes have already, or if it's more than that.

When is the NDA going to be lifted? Does anyone know if it will be before release? I want more details!

[Jfighter777]

Looks great. Once I get MoM, I will probably give em a try. I have to congratulate Turbine on their classes, I have no idea which I want to try more!

[Eredhel_Leafblade]

You had me with the Warden up until the rapid travel.
So lets see, they get good ranged attack as well as melee, they get rapid travel, they get a moving stealth ability ( which is the one that blows me away, hunters do not even get that we have to stand still for ours, and we are suppose to be able to sneak up on things or my definition of a hunter is flawed.) and with stealth they get medium armor and a shield, and self heal. So much for hunters being needed in groups anymore wait until the first Wardens start hitting 60. Spent a lot of time and effort working my hunter up, nice to have made obsolete in one expansion.
Sigh I was looking forward to this class, now all I see is a uber-toon that can fit all rolls expect caster and group healer. I thought they would at lest make them balanced with the other classes, I really see nothing of being balanced.

LOL yesterday it was Guardians. Today it's hunters? Come on people! Stop being so paranoid that the is going to be obsolete with the release of the expansion! Do you really think that Turbine are going to throw all their previous hard work out of the window for the new classes? Of course not!

There is no way in hell that the Warden will out ranged-DPS a hunter. And by the sounds of this article, the Warden will not be able to deal well with trying to tank multiple enemies...which is the Guardian's bread and butter. No-one has anything to worry about here. Just chill

[draconis666]

SWEET keep the diary's coming! PLEASE!

Those of us not in beta need to feed! O_o

So how many potential gambits are there.

Do we learn them like skills or discover them lime FMs?

Seriously My cap may be taking a break while I level my Warden.
Rough math
*edited*
5^3= 125
-42 (left over from doubles)
+3 doubles
86 possible combos

I like the 'rough math'. I had to do a matrix after seeing the math. I came up with 90 combos, but I need someone to double-check the matrix.

F Fist
S Spear
B Shield

1 F F
2 F S
3 F B
4 S S
5 S B
6 B B
7 F S F
8 F S B
9 F B F
10 F B S
11 S F S
12 S F B
13 S B S
14 S B F
15 B F B
16 B F S
17 B S F
18 B S B
19 F S F S
20 F S F B
21 F S B F
22 F S B S
23 F B F S
24 F B F B
25 F B S F
26 F B S B
27 S F S F
28 S F S B
29 S F B S
30 S F B F
31 S B S F
32 S B S B
33 S B F S
34 S B F B
35 B F B S
36 B F B F
37 B F S F
38 B F S B
39 B S F S
40 B S F B
41 B S B S
42 B S B F
43 F S F S F
44 F S F S B
45 F S F B S
46 F S F B F
47 F S B F S
48 F S B F B
49 F S B S F
50 F S B S B
51 F B F S F
52 F B F S B
53 F B F B S
54 F B F B F
55 F B S F S
56 F B S F B
57 F B S B S
58 F B S B F
59 S F S F S
60 S F S F B
61 S F S B S
62 S F S B F
63 S F B S F
64 S F B S B
65 S F B F S
66 S F B F B
67 S B S F S
68 S B S F B
69 S B S B S
70 S B S B F
71 S B F S F
72 S B F S B
73 S B F B S
74 S B F B F
75 B F B S F
76 B F B S B
77 B F B F S
78 B F B F B
79 B F S F S
80 B F S F B
81 B F S B S
82 B F S B F
83 B S F S F
84 B S F S B
85 B S F B S
86 B S F B F
87 B S B S F
88 B S B S B
89 B S B F S
90 B S B F B

90 Possible

[Artanisul]

[QUOTE=draconis666;2308432]I like the 'rough math'. I had to do a matrix after seeing the math. I came up with 90 combos, but I need someone to double-check the matrix.

F Fist
S Spear
B Shield

2 F S
3 F B

5 S B


The article said that the 2 slot gambits were double so ff...bb...ss..otherwise the rest is dead on...far as I can tell. This is gonna be incredible! So far, the only issue I see is the warden will put the amteur Guardians out of business. (meaning those that try to fight to kill rather then fight to agro) My main is a Guardian and I STILL cant wait to play the Warden.

[draconis666]

Ok, good point. I thought it said they were the only one's that COULD use 2. Now that I re-read it, I see that it is a MUST. So, 87 is the final number from what I see.

[Yito_Graft]

Ok, good point. I thought it said they were the only one's that COULD use 2. Now that I re-read it, I see that it is a MUST. So, 87 is the final number from what I see.

I can see wehre you get this. [Edit] I removed a table I made and tried to post, it didn't look right. I wanted to make the point on the first article mention of a gambit:

4 Spear + Spear + Fist + Shield = Deft Strike

The one double from the first article will serusly increase the numbers. Will you all the first two doubles plus non doubles after be gambits?

[Edit]
I just re-Made my table based on this, and now have a total of 135 gambits. As I can't get my table on this thread, here is link: PM if you have problems, I'm new to posting like this. http://dklineburger.googlepages.com/Length.htm

[Belwin]

[Edit]
I just re-Made my table based on this, and now have a total of 135 gambits. As I can't get my table on this thread, here is link: PM if you have problems, I'm new to posting like this. http://dklineburger.googlepages.com/Length.htm

well this is going to become very helpful to me wheni roll my warden thank for posting this!

[Russano]

I like the 'rough math'. I had to do a matrix after seeing the math. I came up with 90 combos, but I need someone to double-check the matrix.

F Fist
S Spear
B Shield

1 F F
2 F S
3 F B
4 S S
5 S B
6 B B

[etc]

I believe your math is correct, but you might be mistaken on the way Gambits work. From the article, it sounds like the order of the components matter, not just the number of each type. So for two slot gambits, there would be nine possibilities:

1 F F
2 F S
3 F B
4 S F
5 S S
6 S B
7 B F
8 B S
9 B B

If this is the case, then the number of gambits possible (assuming every combination was actually valid, which presumably will not be the case) would be:

3x3 2-Slots =9
3x3x3 3-slots =27
3x3x3x3 4-Slots =81
3x3x3x3x3 5-Slots =243

For a total of 360 possible gambits.

But, the article says that only 2-slot gambits start off with two of the same components, so we can eliminate some of those possibilities. Thus:

3x3 2-Slots =9
3x2x3 3-Slots =18
3x2x3x3 4-Slots =54
3x2x3x3x3 5-Slots =162

For a total of 243 possible gambits. That's the upper limit from what we know at the moment.

-R

[Jarandall]

All im going to say is ...........YEAH BABY bring it on

[meister0]

I just re-Made my table based on this, and now have a total of 135 gambits. As I can't get my table on this thread, here is link: PM if you have problems, I'm new to posting like this. http://dklineburger.googlepages.com/Length.htm

Thank you very much for that. Now I really need the touch screen version of these http://gizmodo.com/5064479/mimo-7+in...tleoid-cockpit

[treefallingquietly]

Is spear damage going to be from Might and javelin damage from Agility?
Someone break NDA for us please.

[Trobon]

I've really been looking forward to the warden since it was announced and every article makes it more and more interesting and exciting. My GF and I are going to roll up a Warden Duo and are really excited about trying it out. All of the Warden's Features are very excited.

Features That Make Wardens Awesome:
*Medium Armor and Light and Warden Shields: While not as powerful as heavy armor, it is cheaper to repair and is very good looking armor a lot of times. The new shield sounds like a lot of fun.

*Spears: A class that uses spears is very exciting to me. Spears were a very common weapon and I always wanted to make a character that uses them well.

*Gambit System: It's like a solo version of the Fellowship Maneuvers and that's pretty neat to say the least.

*Utility Powers: Short Term Stealth and Speed boosts are very cool and both things I enjoy a lot. The teleports to places in need of defense is also a great idea.

*Ranged Combat: While not as good as Hunters, the Warden promises some exciting ranged combat in addition to the melee combat.

*Self Heals: Rounding out the Warden is the self healing which will allow for nice solo survivability and makes them a reliable tank as well.


I'm sure I could go on like this, but the point is that I am excited, my GF is excited and 31 days is way too long a wait.

[ararax2]

4 Spear + Spear + Fist + Shield = Deft Strike
I think only the first 2 count.
when you finish a combo you cant add to it anymore.
So
Rule 1
2 of a kind is a combo
Rule 2
Repeating can lead to a combo
Rule 3 (probable)
Upon reaching a combo future attacks will not open new combos.
FF
SS
BB
Are Combos =3
FS
FB
SF
SB
BF
BS
Are incomplete starters to combos
FSF
FSFS
FSFSF
one of those are a combo but only 1 each = 6 of those strings
Now
FSB
FBS
SBF
SFB
BFS
BSF
Those 6 are all combo starters as according to rule #3 =6
Now FSB can end in 27 possible combinations,
BUT
IF
FSBFSB is a combo
Then
FSBFS is not a combo.
FSBF is not a combo
so for a distinct 4th place there is 3 places it can carry out to 4th 5th or 6th.
for a distinct 5th place there is only 2 places it can carry out to.
for a distinct 6th place there is only 1 it can carry out to.
So the unique possibility of distinct endings
is 3*2*1
for each of the 6
so 6*6 = 36
so 36+12+3=51 distinct combinations.
Assuming that adding 1 to a combo does not make a new combo. Also assuming they will follow a pattern of 1 of 3 possibilities complete a combo.

[Miri]

The summation, for i = 2 through 5

[3^i - 3^(i-1) + 3] = 252 unique combinations excluding any over length two that start with the same two icons.

At least according to a cowokers husband who is a mathematician.

Now.. mind you, do I honestly think there are 252 named combinations? Hell no, but I do expect to see at least as many as there are of named conjunctions. Guess we will have to kidnap a dev and force cake and pie on them to find out how many there really are.

[Darej]

well..if i had to hazard a guess....

i would say....you get access to 2 icon combos right off...then get access to 3,4 and 5 later on as you level towrds 60.

i figure you start out knowing at least 2...maybe...3 when you first roll....

then you learn more each even level as you progress...say 1 or 2 each time...and of course just like with other classes at the 40-50 stretch...you skip a few levels between learning new ones.

so....say...~30 gambit combos give or take 5

[Freahelm]

The Warden looks pretty sweet. I love playing the guardian and the hunter, and it looks like this class will fit my needs pretty well. Definitely looking forward to the expansion.

[Yito_Graft]

4 Spear + Spear + Fist + Shield = Deft Strike
I think only the first 2 count.

[Post Partily Edited out]

So the unique possibility of distinct endings
is 3*2*1
for each of the 6
so 6*6 = 36
so 36+12+3=51 distinct combinations.
Assuming that adding 1 to a combo does not make a new combo. Also assuming they will follow a pattern of 1 of 3 possibilities complete a combo.

well..if i had to hazard a guess....

i would say....you get access to 2 icon combos right off...then get access to 3,4 and 5 later on as you level towrds 60.

i figure you start out knowing at least 2...maybe...3 when you first roll....

then you learn more each even level as you progress...say 1 or 2 each time...and of course just like with other classes at the 40-50 stretch...you skip a few levels between learning new ones.

so....say...~30 gambit combos give or take 5

I know I said above i came up with 135, but between 30 and 50 is a much more reasonable number. I still feel that as a warden you will end up with distinct play style. The 10 or so combos you have off the top of the head and like for your play style. That being said, even if you have 50 combos, a lot of them will have the first 3 and end different. That would make me think that f+s+f is hit combo 1, and F+S+F+S is hit combo 1 + small defensive boost, and that F+S+F+S+F is hit combo 2, basically upgraded version of hit combo 1. I don't know, purely speculation. I still think once I max my main at 60, I will roll one for fun.

Also, I'm stepping down from the math as I am not even sure I understand all the math being put out here. I do have a question for Ararax: From what i understood of the math, your saything that deft strike is likely just a Spear Spear combo, and the others on end don't change the combo, are just there as you havn't hit execute yet? I think that is an interesting thing that you can start a 3 combo, throw in some extra hits and execute the 3 after 5 hits.

[sMAk]

Throughout the article, the warden is referred to as "she" and "herslelf". I see the picture looks like a man, but are they limited to female characters? I'm sure they are not, but just thought it a little strange.

[Belwin]

Throughout the article, the warden is referred to as "she" and "herslelf". I see the picture looks like a man, but are they limited to female characters? I'm sure they are not, but just thought it a little strange.

no i don't think it is, if u watch intro movies for classes, the hunters and burgulars are refered to as "she" and guards and champs are refrered to as "he"

[ararax2]

Also, I'm stepping down from the math as I am not even sure I understand all the math being put out here. I do have a question for Ararax: From what i understood of the math, your saything that deft strike is likely just a Spear Spear combo, and the others on end don't change the combo, are just there as you havn't hit execute yet? I think that is an interesting thing that you can start a 3 combo, throw in some extra hits and execute the 3 after 5 hits.

I believe when he said there are no non combos just non completed combos he limited himself to distinct combos that can be added upon.

so FF is a combo but anything added on does not change the combo which should leave us 51 combos assuming a spread that 1 of 3 possibles will end the combo.

[Sijanus]

I am thinking it may be possible for all-warden groups to complete some of the larger dungeons. Which is good, because I also imagine Eriador full of happy little wardens for a while.

I think I am going to level a warden first then go into Moria. I hate dealing with the initial rush to level. It takes away from the uniqueness of Lotro and makes much like any other mmorpg.