Question about usurp Kinship leadership

[Beldacar]

There's a full explanation in the Kinship forum.

Yep, it sure is. Unfortunately, it contains incorrect information:

What if my leader went AWOL?

If the leader does not log in for more than 35 days or cancels his or her account, the successor receives a mail indicating the availability of the Usurp option. The successor can click the Usurp button in the Kinship Panel to become leader.

If the successor does not usurp leadership within 10 days, all officers of the kinship receive a mail informing them that any officer can usurp leadership.

If no officer usurps leadership within 20 days, all members of the kinship receive a mail informing them that any member can usurp leadership.

If a kinship goes 65 days without a new leader, the kinship will automatically disband.

None of this actually seems to happen. I can say definitively that the in-game mails do not happen. A few months ago I usurped the leadership of a Rank 10 Kinship. At the time I usurped it, the relevant character was a lowly, lowly Kinswoman. The leader had not logged in for over 90 days. None of my three characters in the kinship ever received an in-game notification. I simply happened to check the Kinship panel one day and saw a big USURP button.

I cannot state definitely that the automatic disbanding does not happen. I am fairly certain that the kinship had gone well over 65 days without a new leader, but I am not 100% certain. I am, however, 100% certain that none of the three relevant characters ever received any sort of in-game mail notification about the opportunity to usurp.

[Arness]

The last log in dates are not accurate. All you know for sure is that the last recorded log in time is ... The character may have logged in after that point.

The only person that can see the successor name is the leader. No one else knows if there is one or who it is.

The logic is fairly simple. Leader does not log in. The successor get the ability to take over. A few days later the ability to take over extends to the officers. A few days after that the ability to take over is extended to all members and above. A few days after this final extension - no one takes over - the kinship is dissolved.

My humble opinion, you can usurp the leader position. Do so. You kin members can work out the leadership situation after someone take responsibility for preserving the kin.

In the kinship panel, the leader has one symbol by his/her name, the heir has another symbol.

[Frishia]

Thank you for the clarification that it is an in-game notification. I have not received any notification either via standard e-mail or in-game mail.
I am going to wait a day and see what my friend says and if I don't get a reply I will perform the coup.

honestly Dunford, based on what you have said, the time, the fact he's a friend in real life, usurp and discuss it later. If it were me, i'd far rather you usurp honestly, then to let the kin take the chance on disbanding OR that it were to go up for usurp and some new member finds it. I've heard of that happening too.

I do believe the disbanding might be broken, I know the mail part seems to be for sure, although the previous officers in the mentioned kin, did get mails back then (over 2 years ago). Not sure about now however, and I know last year when I myself went awol, I honestly did not believe there would be a kin to log into. I really thought it had been over the time limit.

That's quite a tale. It must have been a very upsetting experience. Personally, I would have been very angry in your shoes.

My opinion is that the old leader was not behaving responsibly towards the kinship. If they knew they were going to be off, they should have transfered responsibility to the next most capable, responsible, and willing person. While I realize that sometimes this is not possible, every effort should be made to do so.

The good news is that most of the folks in the kinship seemed to have realized the truth of the matter. And they voted with their feet.

Oh, I was angry Very angry. I gave it back, because I had promised to. That promise meant more to me than anything else. Would I make that same promise now? No way. Then I wouldn't feel bad for breaking what I didn't make.

But you know the saying, what goes around comes around? I notice that kin is no longer showing up in the kin listings. For some reason I checked not all that long ago, don't remember why though. Would of been some reason.

As for those members who walked with their feet, yep, they are still in my kin today, all but I think like 2 or 3 of them. They all chose to walk back then. I had planned on disbanding that kin but you have given me something else to think about. Those folks DID have the faith in me to follow. Thank you.

[Dunford]

Thank you all for your suggestions. I had a discussion with my kinship leader/friend yesterday and the result was that I took leadership of the kinship last night. We agreed that if/when he returns he is more than welcome to resume leadership.

As several have pointed out, it is better to take leadership than risk losing a rank 10 kinship.

[ArahadEketta]

Thank you all for your suggestions. I had a discussion with my kinship leader/friend yesterday and the result was that I took leadership of the kinship last night. We agreed that if/when he returns he is more than welcome to resume leadership.

As several have pointed out, it is better to take leadership than risk losing a rank 10 kinship.

Come on. Tell us the truth. What you really did was stick a gun barrel in his ear and whispered to him that if he did not "peacefully" abdicate his throne you would blow his head off...

[forceofnone]

IA = I agree
SB = So bad
IDK = I don't know (that's a common one )
MP = Most People rather than Military Police
WIWI = What is wors is ... wee wee. I kind of like that one
ABR = Are being reused
TGT = not "target" ... oh no! To go through
JTFOWOTAU = Just to figure out which one they are using
GMAB = Give me a break

What I love is when a new player asks a question and the grognards give them an answer using speicific, game oriented initialisms (SGOI) and then get huffy when and abusive when the new player asks for a definition of the terms!

Thanks, I needed this glossary of common abbreviations in this game. SGOI, in particular, should be quite helpful. Am I correct that IOW is just a long form of the old-school "i.e." ? That is very, very useful to know because the old long form id est was nearly twice as long (I mean, seriously, the number of times I was reduced to using the overly short form because of those three extra letters in the long form... going long form is one thing, but six key strokes is just torture).

[Dunford]

Come on. Tell us the truth. What you really did was stick a gun barrel in his ear and whispered to him that if he did not "peacefully" abdicate his throne you would blow his head off...

Viva la revolution! Freedom for the people!

(Nah, we really are good friends In RL. It was not a hard sell at all. He was actually apologetic that he was not able to spend more time in game with us).

[Frishia]

Thank you all for your suggestions. I had a discussion with my kinship leader/friend yesterday and the result was that I took leadership of the kinship last night. We agreed that if/when he returns he is more than welcome to resume leadership.

As several have pointed out, it is better to take leadership than risk losing a rank 10 kinship.

Good to hear that. That's a years worth of time, 15-17.5 gold or so if you have a kin house, that can just go away if not acted on. It's hard sometimes to make that decision, but its' one that needs to be acted upon fast.

If it goes into member grab, even that new guy no one really knows could grab it, and then kick everyone out.

If kins were families....(for many of us they are more family than not)

The successor would be the one to do with the kin what you would want done if something happens to you. (executor of the will per say) So would be the one you trust most to do what you wish.

The officers get dibs if that person isn't around, idealy, the successor WILL be around. (officers are the good kids, hopefully) but always possible there is that sister who sneaks in to swipe all the good jewelery.

The members, if no one else is around or takes it...well, HOPEFULLY they are all good relatives, but.....all it takes is one of them to be the greedy no good swindling relative that manages to get control of the estate and keeps it all.


So yeah, glad you got it, I can sleep better now, and I'm sure you guys are too

[Laldail]

The successor would be the one to do with the kin what you would want done if something happens to you. (executor of the will per say) So would be the one you trust most to do what you wish.

This is not a criticism since it is a common mistake these days, but in the interest of the discussion on meanings of certain phrasings - "per say" is actually spelled "per se" and is a Latin phrase meaning "in itself" or "in and of itself". Isn't language fascinating?

[Frishia]

This is not a criticism since it is a common mistake these days, but in the interest of the discussion on meanings of certain phrasings - "per say" is actually spelled "per se" and is a Latin phrase meaning "in itself" or "in and of itself". Isn't language fascinating?

yeah, sure is. glad I passed it in school too. Even if a D was passing and was over 30 years ago.....hmmmm.

[Bolderbrook]

Does anyone know what happens if a Successor wasn't ever named? I posted an in-game support request as follows:

"I can only find an incomplete answer to this in the FAQs. our Kinship Founder has now been absent 36 days, and did not name a successor, but there is no "Usurp" option available for the Officers as yet. Must we still wait an additional 10 days for a non-existant Successor to decide whether or not to usurp, or is the system not functioning properly? I've been making preparations since about the 20th day of our Founder's absence, and would like to know what to tell the membership."

and recieved the following answer:

"Thank you for your help request. Unfortunately, the In-Game Support team cannot assist with any Kinship Leadership or Successor issues. IF NO SUCCESSOR HAS BEEN NAMED, THE KINSHIP WILL NEED TO DISBAND AND REFORM. In-game support cannot change or move people to Guild Leader and/or Officers, I do apologize. For more information on usurp functionality, please visit the following link: http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/A_Guide_to_Kinships."

(Capital letters added by me for emphasis)

And then this is from the link he gave (after all the normal stuff about 35-day absence, 10-day time for successor to usurp, etc.)

"Please note that the In-Game Support Team will not resolve issues regarding the transfer of ownership for a kinship or the automatic disbanding of a leaderless kinship. IT IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE KINSHIP MEMBERS TO ENSURE THAT A SUCCESSOR HAS BEEN CHOSEN."

Has anyone ever usurped a Kinship that DID NOT have a named successor? Or are we all wasting our time here?
We are only a Level 5 Kin, but still, starting over from scratch would be debilitating.

[probitas]

This is very interesting to me. Our kinship leader has not logged on for six months yet to my knowledge no one in our kinship has received any e-mail or notification. I am one of the kinship officers and I certainly have not received any notification e-mails nor was I aware that the kinship could be disbanded. Our kinship leader is still subscribed (lifetime member IIRC) but has certainly been AWOL for several months.

With f2p, your account status is unimportant in determining activity, since anyone can log in now without paying, so if they canceled his account without permission, he'd be pretty upset, and rightly so. They should just implement the lack of leader status. IMO, guild leaders should be active, and the game should look for that. If your guild leader didn't have the foresight to choose a successor, he's doing your kin a disservice. But, he may have suffered a serious injury/illness, PC breakdown, many things, that could account for an extended absence. Try to contact him in real life if anyone in the kin has information to do so, and keep your fingers crossed that he's just absent, and not sleeping with the fishes.

[Lightzor]

If u usurp leadership, the old leader will become your successor. u have 65 days until the kin will be disbanded.

[TheNightAngel]

The successor icon is what one of my kin members described as a 'half crown' and said, oh, he's a half king! If you sort by rank, it will be the second character listed.

*Really awful story about a jerk*

This from someone who as a leader, did not log in, and the usurp rule was up. When I did log in, I never ever in my wildest dreams, would of thought I had a kin left. I would of had no one to blame but myself. I honestly thought at the time I logged in, that either someone would of taken over, or it would have disbanded. And no, I would not have asked for it back.

Do I know you in game?