Rune-keeper Q&A with your host, Zombie Columbus

[revoked]

I had the same result when I logged in to the first beta build. My RK was at 30% on live, maybe a bit but not way over cap, and my offense on BR was on the order of 52% if I am remembering correctly. That's before I changed any equipment. I don't remember what the numbers were like on outgoing healing.

[Mao_Mao]

Ok one more question since the +crit multiplier is gone from armour and jewels, are we still crit dependant (when on lightning) or base damage is making up for the loss of the multipliers?Atm i have +28% multi from items, is the new cap making up for it?And if you cap offence how is your crit chance?Or do we have to choose with the itemization between high offence-moderate critchance and highcritchance-moderate offence?

As i see the pvmp armour gives more fate and vita whereas the raid armour is a full blown willfest meaning you get more crit cause you most probably go with lighnting spec in pvmp and fire spec for raiding.. .

[interactii]

There is a whole lot of really old information flying around this thread. Let me try to add some clarity:

With regard to martial Training, the difference between 65 and 75 is 6 ICPR, everything else is unchanged. Yup, that's one serious buff right there.

Comparing Identically geared and equipped characters in Beta vs Live (a unchanged copy):

Beta Tat Offense:
Live: 9610 = 27.2%
Beta: 10140 = 42.0%

Tat Crit:
Live: 4542 = 15.0%
Beta: 3842 = 13.0%

Skills:

• Beta SS: 321-465 + 1170 Finesse 70 Power
• Live SS: 271-393 70 Power
• -
• Beta CA: 260-341 + 1300 Finesse 27 Power
• Live CA: 237-311 27 Power
• -
• Beta EC: 1306-1660 + 2600 Finesse 275 Power
• Live EC: 976-1241 275 Power
• -
• Beta SB: 432-607 295 Power
• Live SB: 384-543 295 Power
• -
• Beta SW: 625-893 181 Power
• Live SW: 444-635 178 Power
• -
• Beta EoS: 341-468 152 Power
• Live EoS: 307-423 139 Power
• -
• Beta Fall to S: -523.1 97 Power
• Live Fall to S: -468.6 97 Power
• -
• Beta: Fall to our Wrath: -1307.6 130 Power
• Live: Fall to our Wrath: -1171.5 130 Power

Nerf? There is no nerf... at all. There is a serious buff, at least as of today.

[Syntastic]

Ok one more question since the +crit multiplier is gone from armour and jewels, are we still crit dependant (when on lightning) or base damage is making up for the loss of the multipliers?Atm i have +28% multi from items, is the new cap making up for it?And if you cap offence how is your crit chance?Or do we have to choose with the itemization between high offence-moderate critchance and highcritchance-moderate offence?

As i see the pvmp armour gives more fate and vita whereas the raid armour is a full blown willfest meaning you get more crit cause you most probably go with lighnting spec in pvmp and fire spec for raiding.. .

Pure % damage will always trump % crit multi. Crits and dev crits are a multiplication of base damage. Bigger base damage = bigger crits. Not to mention your non crit damage is a lot more potent.

I'll take pure damage increase every time over crit multi or crit chance. If my choice was between say 50% tact off 30% crit, and 70% tact off 10-15% crit, i'd go for the second. In a heartbeat.

[Syntastic]

There is a whole lot of really old information flying around this thread. Let me try to add some clarity:

With regard to martial Training, the difference between 65 and 75 is 6 ICPR, everything else is unchanged. Yup, that's one serious buff right there.

Comparing Identically geared and equipped characters in Beta vs Live (a unchanged copy):

Beta Tat Offense:
Live: 9610 = 27.2%
Beta: 10140 = 42.0%

Tat Crit:
Live: 4542 = 15.0%
Beta: 3842 = 13.0%

Skills:

• Beta SS: 321-465 + 1170 Finesse 70 Power
• Live SS: 271-393 70 Power
• -
• Beta CA: 260-341 + 1300 Finesse 27 Power
• Live CA: 237-311 27 Power
• -
• Beta EC: 1306-1660 + 2600 Finesse 275 Power
• Live EC: 976-1241 275 Power
• -
• Beta SB: 432-607 295 Power
• Live SB: 384-543 295 Power
• -
• Beta SW: 625-893 181 Power
• Live SW: 444-635 178 Power
• -
• Beta EoS: 341-468 152 Power
• Live EoS: 307-423 139 Power
• -
• Beta Fall to S: -523.1 97 Power
• Live Fall to S: -468.6 97 Power
• -
• Beta: Fall to our Wrath: -1307.6 130 Power
• Live: Fall to our Wrath: -1171.5 130 Power

Nerf? There is no nerf... at all. There is a serious buff, at least as of today.

Thank you for those numbers. I suspected as much, a confirmation is much appreciated

[Mao_Mao]

Pure % damage will always trump % crit multi. Crits and dev crits are a multiplication of base damage. Bigger base damage = bigger crits. Not to mention your non crit damage is a lot more potent.

I'll take pure damage increase every time over crit multi or crit chance. If my choice was between say 50% tact off 30% crit, and 70% tact off 10-15% crit, i'd go for the second. In a heartbeat.

You clearly havent played in the moors..Id deffinately go with the crit instead..Even in PvE Good luck trying to kill a 7k mob doing 300 CA 500SS while it hits you like a truck for 1k each time..Id go with offence only when i trait fire for raids, solo and moors i will go with the moors armour maybe mixed in with a 2-3 pieces from raid or any other good rewards drops books craft etc.. .

Also not forget about morale i feel really unsafe running around with 5k as people say we will have if we go pure will route..Even when i heal i want morale to survive the big hits bosses like ivar or the balrog in OD for example..Also additional morale can make fates entwined a beast and a raid saver during such AoE damage, in Balrog for example Challenge Mode with improved fates entwined (from OD set) i was being hit by 3-4k Face Your Fears while whole group got 15% less damage, that is life saving for some classes with low morale especially some 4.somethingK minstrels..With 7-8k that was half morale for me on 5k that is a wipe.. .

I always took with me my altenrate jewels and armour (yes that is 1 bag of item wear) so i could switch on the fly for more icpr resists mitigations morale or w/e, i as i see it now that is more of a standard than ever..I take all that with me partially cause moors dont have a bank if i got to switch traits i would need to map somehere to pick up the alternate stuff.. .

And come to think about it DEVS put a friggin bank in the moors already.. .

Il go yell at the PvMP freep thread now.. .

[Syntastic]

You clearly havent played in the moors..Id deffinately go with the crit instead..Even in PvE Good luck trying to kill a 7k mob doing 300 CA 500SS while it hits you like a truck for 1k each time..Id go with offence only when i trait fire for raids, solo and moors i will go with the moors armour maybe mixed in with a 2-3 pieces from raid or any other good rewards drops books craft etc.. .

If you just mean crit chance, then you probably have an argument. I dont bother with the moors personally, so that certainly isnt a factor for me. I just wanted to discuss tact crit multi there, going over to crit chance was my mistake.

But there is no situation where tact crit multi is better than pure damage increase.

[Mao_Mao]

Yes the speculations and questions i had were about offence vs critchance since there are no longer crit multiplier items as they say.. .

Im guessing we can no longer use the old stuff like Cloak of Hwin since we will be giving up on all stats (offence morale and critchance)..For example with the 650 cap i could afford wearing a sarenzer (best vita-morale earring but melee oriented) simply cause offence and fate was maxed with cappies buffs..Now we have to balance between will, fate and vita/morale with no limitations from stat caps and im guessing old crit multi items will just make that balance even worse.. .

So if anyone can provide some info about the will vs fate builds at least what % they give in offence and critchance that would be most helpful..Still farming those brilliants to get the set ready i think im gonna need at least 3 of that set but maybe the whole set is better.. .

[Syntastic]

With regard to martial Training, the difference between 65 and 75 is 6 ICPR, everything else is unchanged. Yup, that's one serious buff right there.

I'd love a clarification here, if you may. Currently Martial gives 1200 melee crit rating. Is that translated into just "crit rating"? And if so, did you have it traited when you pulled the stats you listed in your post?

[interactii]

I'd love a clarification here, if you may. Currently Martial gives 1200 melee crit rating. Is that translated into just "crit rating"? And if so, did you have it traited when you pulled the stats you listed in your post?

It remains 1200 Melee Only Crit rating. Even though we have a unified crit stat, individual modifiers may further add to the three (legacy) sub-stats, ranged, melee and tactical crit. This is one such example.

[Syntastic]

Figured it seemed too good to be true.

Thanks!

[Alad.]

You clearly havent played in the moors..Id deffinately go with the crit instead..Even in PvE Good luck trying to kill a 7k mob doing 300 CA 500SS while it hits you like a truck for 1k each time..Id go with offence only when i trait fire for raids, solo and moors i will go with the moors armour maybe mixed in with a 2-3 pieces from raid or any other good rewards drops books craft etc...

I've made a post that I've been wanting to do for a long time, about comparing different damage bonuses here. Decided it is now time to write it, given all the discussions about crit multipliers and versus offence regarding the RK changes. Perhaps you'll find it helpful.

[Alad.]

It remains 1200 Melee Only Crit rating. Even though we have a unified crit stat, individual modifiers may further add to the three (legacy) sub-stats, ranged, melee and tactical crit. This is one such example.

The fact that they remain, and it makes perfect sense to me, shows that they are not legacy stats at all. The simply created a new Crit bonus which adds to all 3 of them at once. But whether you crit or not will still depend on the old melee/ranged/tactical crits. So in a way what they did was obfuscate the real stats.

[Alad.]

I´m sorry but i don´t get it. I didn´t search the overcap. It simply happened by having the best overall relics and gear.

LOL, no hard feelings mate, but you did grind for endless hours to get such best relics and gear And good for you too!

[melodriel]

Ah, EftA... The problem is that despite what many thing, EftA heals more and faster then Bolster Courage. More then anything, the skill needs nerfs. Yeah, I know, none of your believe me Try spamming back to back BC's and see how many you can use in a minute, then try the same thing with EftA (traited of course).
But despite it's incredible potency (yeah, I know you still don't believe me) the skill is despised. During very early beta, I made attempts to change the skill to a longer cooldown ability with a shorter cast time. Kind of a spot/emergency heal. This was met with near universal hatred, and I was informed that the skill was just fine without my meddling. I was taken aback by this, and decided to not touch it for RoI.

I don't know if someone has mentioned this yet, but I'm just doing a quick response as I don't have time to read the thread in full at the moment.

My big problem is not the amount EftA heals or the cast time or the cooldown or any such thing. My big problem with EftA is that it does not fit the healing style of the RK. You keep comparing EftA to the minstrel's bolster, and I agree that it's a stronger heal. But the question I'd like to pose is this: Why are we trying to make the RK's healing the same as the minstrel's?

RK healing is proactive not reactive like the minstrel's. It's based on heals over time and preemptive healing with careful planning to manage damage. I agree that having an emergency spot heal is important and useful, but it should not be our main heal. When I throw out an EftA, it's much more difficult to manage keeping the HoTs I need on the others. So eventually, people start falling behind, and I have to KEEP spamming EftA. It's not even a question as to whether healing is sustainable by purely spamming EftA. I don't think it is, but my point here is that having to resort to this style of healing fundamentally changes the healing style of the RK. And in that case, (as a raid leader) I would take a minstrel as minstrels have many more tools for reactive healing.

I've struggled with this since the patch where mending verse was nerfed. I didn't disagree that it was too strong a heal, but I strongly objected to buffing EftA over it. If MV was too strong, consumed too little power, I can understand changes. However, I would have much preferred perhaps an additional HoT oriented skill or an extra tier on writs or a trait where using EftA refreshes writs or ANYTHING other than nerfing MV and forcing us to default to EftA.

I'm not much of a complainer, but I've struggled with this since that patch and it's negatively impacted my enjoyment of the RK. It used to be my main, but I rarely touch her anymore unless my raid is short an RK.

Please, consider not the quality of EftA as a single heal in comparison to the "comparable" minstrel's bolster. Rather, consider how it changes the style and rhythm of the healing RK and how it interacts as a whole to the rest of the RK's arsenal. It's literally the only non-HoT heal (which is how it ought to be), yet it's been pushed (particularly by you) to take center stage in the RK heals rotation.

[Alad.]

I would like to make an important suggestion, which is actually a bug (kind of).

When we try to use a healing or buffing skill with a dead mob selected, or an npc, or an ore lode, or lots of other things, the skill refuses to play saying something like "invalid target". That's so easy to fix. If the skill can be applied to me and you reach that error message, then just apply it to me! So simple, and removes a lot of klunkiness. Why would I be trying to buff a corpse or a bush?


The other thing is starting an induction immediately after combat ends, and failing it only at the very end, because your attunement in the meantime has dropped to below the required level. So frustrating! There are several ways to fix this:

1) Abort the induction at the instant the attunement drops below the required level, and save us the pain of waiting.
2) Be nice and consider that the attunement requirement is applies to the moment you click the skill only, not also when the induction ends. That makes sense. The induction is part of the skill, after all.


If you can get this done for RoI, we would be very happy indeed! And think of the poor loremasters too who have exactly the same problem when the mob they're targeting dies during the induction (we have that problem too, btw).

Edit:
If the target dies during the induction and the skill is a single-target heal/buff or damage, abort it as soon as the target dies without waiting for the induction to end. If it's an AoE heal/buff or damage, apply it nevertheless.

[Osgril]

I would like to make an important suggestion, which is actually a bug (kind of).

When we try to use a healing or buffing skill with a dead mob selected, or an npc, or an ore lode, or lots of other things, the skill refuses to play saying something like "invalid target". That's so easy to fix. If the skill can be applied to me and you reach that error message, then just apply it to me! So simple, and removes a lot of klunkiness. Why would I be trying to buff a corpse or a bush?


The other thing is starting an induction, and failing it only at the very end, because your attunement in the meantime has dropped to below the required level. So frustrating! There are several ways to fix this:

1) Abort the induction at the instant the attunement drops below the required level, and save us the pain of waiting.
2) Be nice and consider that the attunement requirement is applies to the moment you click the skill only, not also when the induction ends. That makes sense. The induction is part of the skill, after all.

If you can get this done for RoI, we would be very happy indeed! And think of the poor loremasters too who have exactly the same problem when the mob they're targeting dies during the induction (we have that problem too, btw).

This post, is pure gold. Please Zombie!

[thegneech]

I would like to make an important suggestion, which is actually a bug (kind of).

When we try to use a healing or buffing skill with a dead mob selected, or an npc, or an ore lode, or lots of other things, the skill refuses to play saying something like "invalid target". That's so easy to fix. If the skill can be applied to me and you reach that error message, then just apply it to me! So simple, and removes a lot of klunkiness. Why would I be trying to buff a corpse or a bush?


The other thing is starting an induction, and failing it only at the very end, because your attunement in the meantime has dropped to below the required level. So frustrating! There are several ways to fix this:

1) Abort the induction at the instant the attunement drops below the required level, and save us the pain of waiting.
2) Be nice and consider that the attunement requirement is applies to the moment you click the skill only, not also when the induction ends. That makes sense. The induction is part of the skill, after all.

If you can get this done for RoI, we would be very happy indeed! And think of the poor loremasters too who have exactly the same problem when the mob they're targeting dies during the induction (we have that problem too, btw).

Hear, hear! I would +2 this post if I could.

-The Gneech

[Fasin]

I´m sorry but i don´t get it. I didn´t search the overcap. It simply happened by having the best overall relics and gear. I didn´t choose such gear instead of other one. I´d play with that gear no matter the caps, because it´s simply the best one. So, there will be a buff for me and for many as me who were geared similar to me. In some situations, it´s almost impossible not to overcap. I´m trying hardly not to get Fate to 650 but i can´t. Same with tact offence (which wasn´t bad btw, with old system of tactical defence).

My fact stays true.

When i made my post i did now know about the decreased diminishing returns. So it looks like there will be a net buff.

That said though, if you are more then a little overcap you do not have the best gear.Your tactical offence should not be at 13k. That is 2k overcap.

It's a good thing we don't gear according to what was wasn't bad under the old system then.

[Alad.]

Some people are forgetting the automatic level-up nerfs in lotro. Every time you level up you get nerfed all over the spectrum: defence, offence, healing. Because ratings convert to lower % as you level up and fight higher mobs. So you are forced to improve your ratings across the board.

I did a little calculation to try and understand why the generous decrease in diminishing returns in offence rating-to-% conversion that is coming with Isengard. It turns out that, had they kept the old equation, you would not have been able to reach 50% offence at level 75, nowhere near 50% even. You would have needed 29,750 Offence Rating to get to 50%!! LOL Yes, that's 2975 Might or Will or Agility. At 15,000 rating you would have reached about 33.5% offence only, at 75. So they loosened the curve's saturation because they simply had to, to give some meaning to the removal of caps on base stats (Might etc...).

As it stands now, apparently (from the very little data I was able to get from beta) you will need about 16,500 offence rating to reach 50% offence or healing at 75 (i.e. 1650 Might or Will or Agility without direct rating nor direct % bonuses). AND... they removed the % cap on offence simply because it was not necessary any more! Nobody (or very few) will reach 50% offence at 75 anyway.

So what I suspect we will "feel" when RoI comes, is a boost at 65 on day one, then a gradual nerf as we level up, and when we finally reach 75 and get some decent gear we'll be a bit better off than now at 65 before RoI. But only after we get the decent gear, mind you.

For Outgoing Healing: I'm not sure, but I think they didn't change the formula as they did for Offence. So you'd need 29,750 rating at 75 to reach 50%, which you can forget about. We'll probably be able to reach 30%-35%, maybe a tad more.

As for BEP and Incoming Healing, you will need 9,915 rating to reach the new 25% cap at 75 (if they haven't changed those formulas). That's, for example, 4,958 Agility to reach the new cap of 25% Evade without direct rating or % bonuses. How many do you expect to reach that?

[Bradegor]

When i made my post i did now know about the decreased diminishing returns. So it looks like there will be a net buff.

That said though, if you are more then a little overcap you do not have the best gear.Your tactical offence should not be at 13k. That is 2k overcap.

It's a good thing we don't gear according to what was wasn't bad under the old system then.

Humm actually ... having an overcap in tact offence is/was good. As tactical defence substracts from tactical offence, you could be still keep doing the 30% dmg. Ofc, only raid bosses have high tactical defence.

But in anyways, you can´t help about going so high in the tact offence if you use Adamant Gem of the Dream x2. It also helps alot on crit and on ICPR. So there was no option on getting overcapped.

Also, being capped in Fate is nothing about having not the best gear (which i humbly believe i have), it´s more about me buying 5 tomes of Fate (and Vitality, and Will...). But still, the options are there.

It doesn´t matter now with RoI, not such caps and there is a change about how defences work versus the offences.

[snip101]

Not sure if you are still answering questions but with the new shall not fall this day. What happens when the skill comes off of cd and you use it on another fellowship member and the person you used it on initially has not died.

For example take the watcher fight about 30-45 min fight depending on group skill and makeup. The fight starts and you place it on the healer since you really don't want the healer to stay dead. 10 min into the fight the healer is still alive and still has the shall not fall this day buff on him.what would happen if I applied it to the tank also. Would the buff be removed from the mini and placed on the tank or would it be applied to both. Also if one of them died would it remove the buff from the other one? Also what would happen if I died during the fight with the buff on the mini and I got a res and the mini died a minuet later after I had received a res and was back on my feet would the mini be resed to where I am currently standing or would they go back to the res circle?

[Torgy]

Hi Zombie Columbus.

Let me just say english is not my native language so be warned
It might be late (seeing the dev diary is out now), but here´s my look at the class before and after ROI goes live.

#1
Before i start though i just wanna point out i sadly agree with most peeps here when it comes to lack of general info of our class before the launch of ROI. All other classes had dev. diarys posted ages ago while we (and the hunter - also your class) were left in the dark for so long.
I can understand it if you still worked on changes and felt you would only be misleading us if you posted something unfinshed. If thats the case, just tell us so we know whats going on. Afterall we are paying costumers and communication is important to keep us happy (its not just 100% about the game itself), which leads me to my next point.

#2
The good thing is you are here now communicating with us publishing your own thread with Q&A. Imo good work! Some might think its the least we can expect, but theres class devs. thats been awol for a year now without posting anything on the class forums. What you have done here (and on the hunter forum) is much appreciated imo.

#3
Looking back at the past i believe more or less everyone with a 65 RK will agree that since its birth and the launch of MoM the RK class have been a very good class to play. Imo a cool, fun, competable class beeing able to compete in its own way against all the others. I believe we can thank you for some of that. Exellent work!

#4
If we try and look into the future (after ROI) im not sure we see all the changes we would apprectiate to see once the expansion goes live. I know, im no fortune teller and ive not been part of beta testing, but looking at our changes and what other classes recieve im not very optimistic on our behalf. Not because we get "nerfed", but because other classes will improve more than we do.


Lets look at pure healing first;
Im one of those that actually enjoyed healing on my RK (pre ROI) and geared and traited properly its close between a ministrel and a healing RK when we look at healing output. The ministrel have been the best FS/raid healer because of his fellowships skills, reliable in combat rez and dread removal skill, while we have been the best singel target healer. Im not saying we couldnt swap roles and do a good job the other way around, but for most T2 challenges thats the way it has been.
We need to build up our healing attunement though to max before we can compare ourself to the ministrel (due attunement locks) and sadly each time we use some of our buffing skills we reduces that healing attunement. Traited with 7 of the Benedictions of Peace line we do less damage than a ministrel when we heal.

The changes to Do not fall this Day makes us slightly more reliable when it comes to in combat rez´ing, but we can still not choose targets like the ministrel, and theres still no skill to remove dread (something we desperatly need to compete vs the ministrel - perhaps through legendary traits?). Overall i think both the ministrel and RK have been slightly nerfed when it comes to healing (perhaps to make guards/wardens more in demand vs champion/captain?). Increasing the ministrels dps is a good thing (no one can complain about that - it was poor at best), but after expansion how is our dps when in healing attunement with proper healing gear (stone/satchel/traits etc)?

The ministrel is still the best FS healer, have dread removal skill, an in combat rez skill where they can choose desired targets (the one that actually is dead) and do more damage while beeing main healer. I sense a slightly nerf at best though i like what you have done to Do not fall this Day.

...and it might be me just missing it, but i cant see you have done anything with EftA? I believe you are one of the few ZC that just dont see it not fitting into our HoT skills with its long induction time. Id much rather you make it an instant singel target crisis situation skill, with a longer cooldown and perhaps not possible to use on self.


DPS RK;
I had lots written on dps between the champion (heavy armour aoe tank), hunter (medium armour, induction time and crowd control) and the RK, but due to the last page on your dev diary i guess you have made the same judgement as i did. We need more DPS to not fall to far behind the other top 2 and my question is just how far behind is the burglar now on 4th place?

Sadly imo you make the FS dps RK into a fire duplicate of the hunter with long inductions skills (atleast on paper). Because of the new line traits (need 7 to max out our dps) you also take away some of our healing versability in dps mode (i guess many used 5-2 pre ROI depending on situation).
I just hope you can make sure we get the much needed improvements to our Legendary items in the first patch after ROI goes live and that we dont have to sit on the fence waiting for other classes to get their much needed tweaks first.

And lets hope you are correct when it comes to keeping the RK in awesome town, though it so far looks like my new main might be cappy, burglar or champion....

[Evebel]

Not sure if you are still answering questions but with the new shall not fall this day. What happens when the skill comes off of cd and you use it on another fellowship member and the person you used it on initially has not died.

For example take the watcher fight about 30-45 min fight depending on group skill and makeup. The fight starts and you place it on the healer since you really don't want the healer to stay dead. 10 min into the fight the healer is still alive and still has the shall not fall this day buff on him.what would happen if I applied it to the tank also. Would the buff be removed from the mini and placed on the tank or would it be applied to both. Also if one of them died would it remove the buff from the other one? Also what would happen if I died during the fight with the buff on the mini and I got a res and the mini died a minuet later after I had received a res and was back on my feet would the mini be resed to where I am currently standing or would they go back to the res circle?

According to today's RK dev diary, it will be possible to have up more than one buff. The original buff lasts until combat ends or the target dies. It is not cancelled by you putting a new buff, 10 minutes later, on a different fellowship target.