Update 10 Developer Diary: Warden Stat Change – Agility Wardens!

[roadstein1]

apparantly u don't play a ward. if ur gonna make a class a heavy like a tank type, might makes sense. changing back to agility is stupid. so they're gonna be hunters with a shield? u might as well make champs switch to fate. i've played a ward as my main since the start and they're wrecking the class for no good reason. i for one am scrapping mine. i'll have lots more storage space now.

[TinDragon]

Thus, when Turbine took the Might out of my "Mighty" Wardens, they totally disemboweled my whole fundamental concept for those characters. I don't give a rats rear what the stats look like, my 3 Warden characters were destroyed. And, as collateral damage, my enthusiasm, motivation and desire to play LOTRO was greatly reduced.

You must not have played warden for very long, because agi used to be a pretty important stat to have before RoI as well. It was only in RoI that wardens moved to a primarily might/vit build.

apparantly u don't play a ward. if ur gonna make a class a heavy like a tank type, might makes sense. changing back to agility is stupid. so they're gonna be hunters with a shield? u might as well make champs switch to fate. i've played a ward as my main since the start and they're wrecking the class for no good reason. i for one am scrapping mine. i'll have lots more storage space now.

I literally have no idea what you're trying to say here. Wardens are a medium class, not a heavy class. Agi and might has nothing to do with shields, since champs can't use a shield, and captains are pretty evenly split on the shield/no shield thing. That leaves one class that uses might that uses a shield most of the time. I also don't understand what fate has to do with anything. Are you sure warden is your main? I'd hate to see the quality of your other toons.

[Braymart]

I know this thread is based on Wardens and Agility, but I'd just like to say from my side that I'm not happy with the stat change either. Guardian and Hunter.

For the Hunter I stacked his gear, stat and legendary items towards Agility. This giving me massive crit and ability to dodge.... Well that's all gone out the window!

For the Guardian (shield brawler) and I don't group much, so balanced is the way to go. Stacking stats to might and agility. This gives me the ability to block, thus causing a special manoeuvre and the agility gave me the chance to hit back with force... Well that's all gone out the window! Looking down my armour crafting... everything is might and agility. Heavy armour and fate... Doesn't exist.

So thanks for the screw.

Reminds me of Star Wars Galaxies. They dumped all the classes. "how about you start again folks!" and the game died. OK it's not quite that drastic.

Can someone actually tell me, what the actual reason behind this manoeuvre was???

[TinDragon]

For the Hunter I stacked his gear, stat and legendary items towards Agility. This giving me massive crit and ability to dodge.... Well that's all gone out the window!

You can still dodge as normal, and agility still gives you massive crit (in comparison to any class who doesn't use agility as a main stat). It's a little lower than before, but didn't you find it silly that by stacking your damage dealing stat you also essentially automatically capped crit? I thought it was silly.

For the Guardian (shield brawler) and I don't group much, so balanced is the way to go. Stacking stats to might and agility. This gives me the ability to block, thus causing a special manoeuvre and the agility gave me the chance to hit back with force... Well that's all gone out the window! Looking down my armour crafting... everything is might and agility. Heavy armour and fate... Doesn't exist.

This is a bit of a problem. I do believe they're adding more fate on the new sets, but I'm not sure what they're planning to do with the old ones. From what I hear, captain armour at least got agi switched to fate (on the Moors stuff), so perhaps they'll do the same with all heavy armour.

[Qwyxzl]

apparantly u don't play a ward. if ur gonna make a class a heavy like a tank type, might makes sense. changing back to agility is stupid. so they're gonna be hunters with a shield? u might as well make champs switch to fate. i've played a ward as my main since the start and they're wrecking the class for no good reason. i for one am scrapping mine. i'll have lots more storage space now.

Wardens are now and have always been avoidance tanks not mitigation tanks. The move back to agility not only makes sense it actually makes your character better. Lets break this down.

Either way you are getting mastery from one stat so you break even. Either way you get the same amount of parry so you break even.

You lose block.

You gain evade and crit.

Seems to me in the worst case you reverse your evade and block and gain crit. How did that make you worse? In the best case you have a situation where your total BPE has gone UP due to the ease with which wardens can cap block.

As a Warden I feel this change is not important enough to the point that it drives customers away.

Turbine, think of all the Wardens who have spent hours and money getting their Warden right where they want it, you've just taken that away from them and will not offer them any sort of compensation for it. You're pretty much just flipping them the bird and saying "I do what I want."

Please, rethink this change. The majority of Wardens I've talked to do not like the change and think it's unnecessary.

Now this is a slightly different argument that does carry some weight. Wardens do now have to regrind for jewelry. But given the new gear that is dropping weren't you going to be grinding for new jewelry anyway? And for those that want to mention "wasted" stat tomes, they are not wasted. You still get all the non mastery benefits of having that might. Yes you lost value on those purchases. No you did not get nothing from them.

[Duranos]

Wow.. after reading the past few pages, it is sad to see all the Trolls, guess it was a quiet day on the Blizz Forums.

This is a major change to a class and players have had YEARS to build, grind and play to their own goals. If players decided to grind Might Virtues, that was their choice based on their style of play and to say "Too bad, you Sux if joo did that" is childish and does NOT invalidate their complaints. It was their play-style and they were entitled to it. Might- Stat Tomes, no matter how you gained them, are little more than a wasted purchace now as well. When they were bought, they were for a "PRIMARY" stat of our class, not a secondary. To say we still get something from them is a joke and not said by someone who now finds their Primary Stat switched.

I, like many others, must use the Auction House for all my Jewelry needs and have spent a large sum on "Might/Vit" Jewelry to that effect. When I needed those items, they were still "Hot" and very expensive but at the time, I had the coin and the desire to make my Warden better. Now we are expected to return to the AH and replace it all because the Devs thought it was a good idea? Yes folks are pissed..

This was a good idea, 3 YEARS AGO.. but to pull this after all this time was a Bad one. We all know that Turbine doesn't care what we think.. they have already made the change and have moved on to something else and I don't expect a member of the Dev team to actually read this.. myself, I have expressed my disappointment with this really bad episode of "The Guild, Season 6" type fiasco.. now back to slaughtering thousands of mobs for coin to finance a new set of Jewelry.

[Finglin]

So I see that they're at least helping us with the hytbold armor change, but what about jewelry? I'm sitting on 5 pieces of jewelry that requires tarnished crests. Is the new level cap coming with U11 and I don't need to worry about it, or will they mail me 5 crests so I can replace my jewelry appropriately?

[Faenyl]

Wow.. after reading the past few pages, it is sad to see all the Trolls, guess it was a quiet day on the Blizz Forums.

This is a major change to a class and players have had YEARS to build, grind and play to their own goals. If players decided to grind Might Virtues, that was their choice based on their style of play and to say "Too bad, you Sux if joo did that" is childish and does NOT invalidate their complaints. It was their play-style and they were entitled to it. Might- Stat Tomes, no matter how you gained them, are little more than a wasted purchace now as well. When they were bought, they were for a "PRIMARY" stat of our class, not a secondary. To say we still get something from them is a joke and not said by someone who now finds their Primary Stat switched.

I, like many others, must use the Auction House for all my Jewelry needs and have spent a large sum on "Might/Vit" Jewelry to that effect. When I needed those items, they were still "Hot" and very expensive but at the time, I had the coin and the desire to make my Warden better. Now we are expected to return to the AH and replace it all because the Devs thought it was a good idea? Yes folks are pissed..

This was a good idea, 3 YEARS AGO.. but to pull this after all this time was a Bad one. We all know that Turbine doesn't care what we think.. they have already made the change and have moved on to something else and I don't expect a member of the Dev team to actually read this.. myself, I have expressed my disappointment with this really bad episode of "The Guild, Season 6" type fiasco.. now back to slaughtering thousands of mobs for coin to finance a new set of Jewelry.

Well I for my part am not really spending many resources in stat tomes (they are pretty much changing nothing compared to jewellery/armor, I find them pretty useless to be honest and not worth the high price). But I do have some... I got might AND agility at about 3-4, which is just logical for a tank and bpe. Now I do understand that dps wardens would certainly not stack agility (pre u10) but as tank class it's totally useful next to vitality. Now any warden tank complaining that their might tomes are now useless(totally ignoring agility) did something wrong anyways :P
The same applies to tanking jewellery/armor... you really don't have to change anything to keep a good balance.. I got 1 new jewellery piece and my evade is more capped than ever(I don't need to speak of parry, it's over 30% according to our tooltip), I'm more or less lacking block rating..

I'm really sorry for you guys(tank wardens) but I just don't see the point.

[sirwillow]

I can understand a bit of the angst from those that used stat tomes. You'll still be getting some benefit from them, but not what you originally intended and planned. I highly doubt there will be any way that they could really compensate for that, though, and I'm sure they won't. And with the stat cap removal, in the end 50 extra might isn't a huge deal anyways, but will be handy for the extra block. It's not going to hurt you in any way to have those points in might, and can actually still be a benefit without trying to find the might on items.

Armor they did already update and change for the wardens- not just Hytbold pieces but all the warden sets were updated and changed from might to agility.

For the jewelry though, c'mon. Every time there's an update people update and replace their jewelry with what is newly replaced. It's already happening with the pieces in the instances, skraids, etc on this update. And it'll happen again with the next update. You'd be updating and changing what you're wearing anyways in those slots. So during the transition time what you have now is just fine and will be til you replace it with the new agil pieces that you're working on anyways. And with tarnished crests now on the skirm vendors (and at a pretty cheap price I might add) there's not any large outlays of ingame gold or grinding even needed for new pieces if you don't do the instances. But most are whining about something they would have been doing anyways, which to me is just a bit silly.

Really, for the vast majority of wardens this change is NBD (no big deal) and nothing to worry about. For some there is some reason to complain- and it would be nice if they could find a way to make up for those tomes, but since they won't it would be best to just move on anyways, play the game, and realize that it really hasn't hurt the character at all.

[deryery]

I just deleted my lvl75 warden , i invested a lot of time leveling this char , but im not going to spend time on changing stats / gear / jewelry
Nice to know that hytbold gear is adjusted, but for a lvl75 you need a new makeover

[auximenes]

I just deleted my lvl75 warden , i invested a lot of time leveling this char , but im not going to spend time on changing stats / gear / jewelry
Nice to know that hytbold gear is adjusted, but for a lvl75 you need a new makeover

I think you over-reacted. It is very easy to get new crafted teal armour and jewellery that has Agility instead of Might. You can swap your traits for a small fee. That's most of the battle right there.

[Mobregon]

Still should've done this with the next level cap raise.

I oppose the change from Might to agility for the warden class. I take extreme offense at the emasculation of the class. Many of us have spent a considerable game time creating a character with equipment and traits designed to make the character the best it can be according to the might based Warden rules. I don't understand the reasoning behind this change and respectfully request that you reconsider. I guess you could say: "I hate Change". Thanks alot for the big middle finger you have given those of us who have been working on wardens.

[Aidlywo]

I just deleted my lvl75 warden , i invested a lot of time leveling this char , but im not going to spend time on changing stats / gear / jewelry
Nice to know that hytbold gear is adjusted, but for a lvl75 you need a new makeover

Wow - I think that is a bit of an overreaction, you are 10 levels below cap you WILL be changing everything as you get to lvl85 and grind Hytbold armor - if you read all the release notes you would have seen that the lvl75 barter armor was readjusted to make Agi primary stat anyway.

The grace-period means for levelling when you are DPS'ing all your might based armor, jewelry are still perfectly good.

Tanking I still have all my Jewelry I used at 75 and the odd bit I swapped out before U10 when at lvl 85 and I have no issue tanking any of the Raids , tanking/farming any of the 3/6mans - LOL still can solo Lib/School instances (need a buddy for the burning books to complete challenge).

IMO - A lot of complaining / moaning for no valid reason ... want a valid reason to moan simple RNG , removes skill to a numbers game / time sink

Yeah I am loving my new Agi Warden - My Healer friends are loving my Agi Warden , I really am taking less damage

[Zenwen]

Well the thing is.. if you allow wardens to do this you'll have to allow all other classes the same.. we are getting fate back as an enhanced stat, some hunters/burglars might say: Hey I want 3 of my agility tomes converted to fate!
I kind of understand that it would be nice, but I really don't see it happening.

No, You are completely wrong!

Only classes that have their *PRIMARY STAT* changed need be allowed to convert their *PURCHASED* improvements according to this stat change (in case of Wardens: From Might tomes/upgrades to Agility, removing Might by adding Agility).

That is the least turbine could offer to soothe those wardens who are angry right now - with good reason.

So if your Hunter's get Agility replaced by Fate or RK their Will replaced by Vitality or similar, only then should those players who spend *CURRENCY* on upgrading their main stat should get a chance to convert it to the new Stat.

It's really annoying to have spend TP on Main Stat tomes just to get a kick in the butt for it...


Gear can always be easily replaced in game (and the moaning for this can be safely ignored) - but those permanent changes that are usually purchased for TP are a completely different matter.

They are bound to TP and often to real money. And that's where emotions get serious.

[Zenwen]

Basically this change can be differentiated into the following topic (please correct me if I missed some):

1.) The Idea behind the change (game mechanics, Lore etc.) - As a Warden I fully agree with this change. Agility just makes more sense for my class, both lore-wise and in game mechanics.
Seriously: Warden have never been (not by lore nor intend) to be heavy built soaking Tanks that just absorb any damage they take. They don't even have the right kind of Armor type for that! So by finally acknowledging their main tanking abilities (avoidances/evades/parries) which *are* Agility-related, this change is right and good in my opinion.

2.) Gear.
Every warden who has not reached Level cap yet can completely and utterly ignore this issue. The Grace-period will provide ample time to naturally grow into new gear. You only have to remember to prefer Agility on Items you chose to wear.
End-Game Wardens who wear Warden-Class Set Items will see their items adjusted w/o having to bother. So quit complaining about your set-items, THESE HAVE BEEN OR WILL BE FIXED!
What about Jewelry? Yes, you will have to get new jewelry. This will cost you a trifle. Note that any warden who now complains about U10.0.2 might-based Gold necklaces is just plain wrong and should have read the Patch-notes. All other jewelry was going to be replaced pretty quickly with U10.0.2 by the newly available ones anyhow. This is true for every class, so stop whining!
What about LI? If you got Might on your new First Age Lvl. 85 Gear, see Jewelry above. Your own fault entirely! Shame on YOU for not reading the patch notes. You should have learned this lesson many patches ago :P
If you moan about your Second-Age LI you got before the update: Yes. This is indeed a disadvantage. But if you had Might legacy applied to your LI, with the grace period you should have plenty of time to farm the appropriate Agility LI (purchasable at Skirmish camps and various other barter NPC throughout the world, including Lvl 65 and 75 content barterers!). For most it's instantly available. Sorry about the Empowerment, but then stat legacies start at tier 4 anyway.
Other Gear will get replaced anyway, with or without this update. And class-based gear will be modified to reflect this change.
All in all: a few bumps, but nothing really serious.

3.) Virtues (and Deeds): I can understand the posters who complained about this, but for two reasons I don't see this as serious enough to complain as loud:
a) The Virtues have always been the way they are now. Other classes have to deal with them just as well. There is really no valid point in arguing that Agility-improving Virtues lack certain aspects - there are others who compensate (which you should have chosen anyway!).
b) Deeding - I know a few Players who farmed deeds specifically for the set of Virtues they prefer. Those I call "hard core games" and they should not have much trouble getting the other deeds done (I can sell you Deed boost tomes if you're on Evernight . But since the Stat Bonuses from Virtues are not very big in the first place, those 5 to 10 Points in Agility won't get you killed in the next boss fight. So while the amount of time spent on gaining those Virtues by Deeds amounts to quite a lot - the effect of lower-level virtues is marginal in any way. You should not take this too serious! Most people I know don't have their virtues maxed out - mostly because they are not hard-core enough to spend days and weeks grinding Deeds...
They won't feel any impact by this change whatsoever (except spending 50 silver coins on reassigning their virtues once).

4.) Permanent Stat upgrades (Tomes):
Most players I know who upgraded their main stat by tomes do it the quick way: By spending TP. For most people this means spending either *real money* or countless of days of their life-time (for TP farming). Using in-game dropped tomes is rare enough as you can't buy all tiers (the AH on Evernight rarely has more than a few Tomes in total, mostly the wrong stat or tier)and the drop chances are too low.
Having their Investment ruined by an arbitrary change from game designers without any consideration of this fact or even outlook on a compensation (may that be a refund of spent tomes, or a transfer of these upgrades from Might to Agility, removing the Might upgrades by applying them to Agility - either automatically or by giving each warden a special scroll for that) is a serious overlook by Turbine.

In my opinion, the last point is the only one that would justify turning away from lotro or deleting a warden character - and the only one that Turbine has to address! (the Gear point was sufficiently addressed by Turbine - but the last one was apparently overlooked!)

(for those who want to know: I only ever used a Tier I Tome of Might on my warden which I was lucky enough to roll on my other char. And I already have gathered Agility-based gear for the few remaining levels to come - so I am contend)

Z

[Tuco]

2.) Gear.
Every warden who has not reached Level cap yet can completely and utterly ignore this issue. The Grace-period will provide ample time to naturally grow into new gear. You only have to remember to prefer Agility on Items you chose to wear.
End-Game Wardens who wear Warden-Class Set Items will see their items adjusted w/o having to bother. So quit complaining about your set-items, THESE HAVE BEEN OR WILL BE FIXED!

I agree with many of your points (logically it seems to me a medium class shouldn't have been might-based in the first place), but I have not done enough research to know whether I should continue to be annoyed with this point. I just logged on my 77 warden (on the shelf since the change-over started) to check my cloak again -- it's still might.

Despite the truly massive and extremely annoying armour nerf the Wyrmscale Blademaster's Cloak is still a good piece of gear for a Might warden. Since it's not part of a set, I assume it won't get adjusted to agility. Right? I'm very annoyed with the armour nerf, and somewhat annoyed with the might->agility on this cloak, since I bought Draig scales off the AH for it -- I've only raided a few times on this server, and never Draigoch.

So my (real) question is: are there better crafted or soloable warden cloaks with the new update, so that I'd be replacing the Draigoch one anyway in normal game-play? Or do I start saving up for more Draig scales?

[Elleby]

I just logged on my 77 warden (on the shelf since the change-over started) to check my cloak again -- it's still might.

The only items that auto-converted were class specific items. So in the case of the Draig cloaks those did not change to agility as they can be worn by any class. As far as I am aware the only cloak that was changed was the gold warden cloak as that cloak is class specific.

[I'am_Ccy]

warden !! lv 33 and lazy play =.=

[DarthStrider]

They are working on recompensation stuff so don't fret too much. The only way you guys are getting ripped off with is the stat tomes, there they should do something, maybe even give you the agility tomes as well as letting you keep your might as compensation but they are right in the fact that you change stuff constantly so everything but the stat tomes is a okay. I know you are all mad but calm down and wait till they have fixed and till you are not mad to comment or you will make yourself look bad and nobody(at least not me) wants you to like a whiney crybaby. I am surprised though that anyone would spend 250 dollars on one guy, he should get a freaking award and a hoard of whatever he wants if he did that on one guy.(please don't troll me on this and dissaprove everything out of anger, I'm not with turbine so don't shoot)