2nd step: Take action against multiboxing and bots

[Squelcher]

Those of you who believe that multi-boxing is acceptable in PVP are <insert infractible word here>.

PVP means 'player versus player'. Not 'player versus player and his additional characters'. Do not give me that rubbish of 'multi-boxing isn't botting'. I know it isn't. However, the fact of the matter is that the majority of players who use multi-boxing in the Moors are also using extra software to control those characters. I don't care about Turbine's 'Code of Conduct' or 'Rules' because they simply do not exist. It is absolutely absurd that cheating of such a magnitude is allowed to happen in a PVP environment. NO other self-respecting developer company with a self-respecting community would allow it to happen.

[Zanishi]

Your issue is with botting... which is justifiably so... not multiboxing...

if you have ever tried multiboxing (without botting) you would know just how hard it is... and in that same case I have fought against many multiboxers and came out on top simply because multiboxing is that hard... if your afraid of a little competition i dont know what to say about why your in a pvp zone... fighting 2 people vs fighting 2 people being multiboxed you will always see the 2 minds defeat the 1... this is not an advantage its a disadvantage... and with that mentality you might as well have an issue with grouping up in general because we all know how well zergs work...

[Squelcher]

if you have ever tried multiboxing (without botting) you would know just how hard it is... and in that same case I have fought against many multiboxers and came out on top simply because multiboxing is that hard... if your afraid of a little competition i dont know what to say about why your in a pvp zone... fighting 2 people vs fighting 2 people being multiboxed you will always see the 2 minds defeat the 1... this is not an advantage its a disadvantage... and with that mentality you might as well have an issue with grouping up in general because we all know how well zergs work...

Ok, next time I want to play Stacraft 2 competitively I'll just run two clients, and hit my enemy with a double zerg rush. If they complain I'll just tell them that it is twice as hard to run two clients so I deserve the reward.
Next time I play Counter Strike I'm sure my opponents won't have a problem if I use a decoy character to distract them while I snipe them.

I'll just tell them it's a PVP game...

[Zanishi]

OK.... your kind of exaggerating a bit aren't you? In all of those games (not lotro BTW) you are not allowed to have 2 clients on 1 PC... I won't ge getting into the semantics over those differences, however if that is your goal to try to get turbine to change their minds on allowing multiple clients then why has it never been an issue before? Because it never bothered you prior to F2P? Again I'll mention that F2P abuse is an issue but that isn't because of multiboxing....

Have you ever ran 2 clients on your PC before? If you have ever experienced lag imagine it 2x over.... the way things are now, multiboxing is available to everyone.... if you take away multiple clients on a PC then what have you resolved? That only people with multiple PCs can multi box? And if your trying to say 1 IP = 1 client, then are you saying families and friends can't play together as well? How will you determine someone is multi boxing or if its simply because 2 or 3 people are on /follow?

What I am trying to help you with is get a better understanding that multi boxing is not the issue.... F2P abuse and bottling is.... if something is to be done you need to aim your cause at the right problem.... or you will be asking for the impossible....

[Squelcher]

if you take away multiple clients on a PC then what have you resolved?

Rank farming.

[Zanishi]

Not only is that unrelated but its false.... in my past it was easier for me to farm on multiple PCs then on 1 and had nothing to do with multi boxing.... but again unrelated.... farming is illegal... and therefore if spotted it can be reported it has nothjng to do with multiboxing

[Squelcher]

Not only is that unrelated but its false.... in my past it was easier for me to farm on multiple PCs then on 1 and had nothing to do with multi boxing.... but again unrelated.... farming is illegal... and therefore if spotted it can be reported it has nothjng to do with multiboxing

It would put an end to people 'soloing' DoF bosses.

[Zanishi]

Again false.. I have tried to solo delving bosses via 3 accounts and found it impossible to keep up... and even then 1 person could stop me... after that it is a bottling issue not multi boxing.... I did almost take ost once but got stopped by a solo player.... so maybe? Even so... your fishing for reasons to ban a concept of the game that has more vulnerabilities then advantages... any any scenario an equal and even lesser number of individuals would destroy a multi boxer...

You can try to come up with a hundred ways that multi boxing defies the game but unless a bot is involved.... nada.... I come from tears of experience with doing it and fighting against it... and if I hear someone is multi boxing I think "ooo easy kills" and make them my target....

[Squelcher]

Again false.. I have tried to solo delving bosses via 3 accounts and found it impossible to keep up

Then you're not very good. A single warden can easily solo the tree, and a multi-boxing RK on my server has solo'd Gaergoth before.

[Zanishi]

I have only multi boxed via creep side... and even then 1 person could stop any of your examples...

[Squelcher]

Just like one person could stop one guy from farming 20 clubbing reavers. That doesn't mean it's okay to do it.

[Glohir]

I can't really think of one game where multiboxing is actually good PvP wise. People shouldn't have the power to play for 2 in a player versus player envoirement.

[Zanishi]

Farming is illegal and unrelated.... 20 reavers is obviously F2P abuse and botting.... your going in circles ....

Anyways I tried to help you get a better understanding and your arguing semantics.... if you have something constructive to say for your cause answer my previous questions and I'll gladly debate with you... at this point I made my case and you ignored it... good day...

@glohir ... it exists in every game despite what anyone thinks and the issue with it is usually followed with botting.... as I had explained before in LOTRO I find multi boxers easy targets and I aim for them... just like people have aimed for me when I have multi boxed... if you have tried to (which you can for free) you will find it is not only challenging but very difficult to control... if you really think someone is getting an advantage over you this way try it yourself and bring some feedback about it... in most cases people have issues with multi boxers it is because of the bot giving them the advantage....

Anyways if your afraid of 2-3 characters running around the map together you might as well have an issue with small groups and raids....

[Squelcher]

f you have something constructive to say for your cause answer my previous questions and I'll gladly debate with you... at this point I made my case and you ignored it... good day...

All you argued was that multi-boxing was laggy (won't be if you have a half-decent rig) and that it was hard (just put a character on follow to hog its buffs) and thus it is for some reason okay to multi-box in PVP. Gee, no wonder I ignored that 'argument'.

[Zanishi]

And yet all I hear is qq..... there was a list of questions you ignored... not just the diffuliculty I expressed (which was not a question)... why don't you man up and fight your opponent instead of complaining about how many there are?

[Glohir]

@glohir ... it exists in every game despite what anyone thinks and the issue with it is usually followed with botting.... as I had explained before in LOTRO I find multi boxers easy targets and I aim for them... just like people have aimed for me when I have multi boxed... if you have tried to (which you can for free) you will find it is not only challenging but very difficult to control... if you really think someone is getting an advantage over you this way try it yourself and bring some feedback about it... in most cases people have issues with multi boxers it is because of the bot giving them the advantage.....

Well.. most people will use multiboxing to gain an advantage, this means:

A. They are not easy targets, because if they were they would't multibox anymore because it has no use.
B. Most of them use bots in which case Turbine should do something about it.

Idk if you play on other servers too, and multiboxing might be not gving too much trouble on the bigger servers, but here on Gilrain that one more number gives an significant advantage.

[Zanishi]

@glohir your at least understanding part of my point and that is where the bot is giving the advantage.... if you were to face a real multi boxer you would find that it is quiet easy to take them down... I implore you to try it if you want proof otherwise....

Most multi boxers use isboxer which clones keyboard commands to separate windows this gives them an edge where as a traditional multi boxer needs to salt tab between windows and give commands separately and therefore producing a much slowed response....

Look at it this way.... say I use a WL and BA to duo box.... I can run around and pew pew and heal myself but if you strategize you can easily disable my healing or my damage and defeat one and then the other.... if not and I some how get you... if you were to get one person to help you I wouldn't stand a chance.... the difference is minimal except that there would be no way to control both simultaneously...

In most cases these days I only multi box at rez/grams camps where my healer won't be interrupted.... this is the only true place I can keep myself alive... and even then I have been defeated by clever tactics...

[Squelcher]

If regular multi-boxing was all disadvantages and no advantages, then nobody would do it. Having an extra captain simply on follow so you can benefit from his buffs even without actively using his skills provides an edge over other players and does not require any extra effort.

[Ugmo]

Setup a special server for multiboxers. Call it a Free For All server or something.

Give free transfers to all the multiboxers to transfer their private armies there.

Then we'll see how many of these multi client enthusiasts are looking to conquer the challenge of running multiple clients and which ones are just trying to gain an advantage over people who adhere to the standard "1 player, 1 toon" etiquette in PVP games.

[Zanishi]

@ugmo or we can have a dedicated 1v1 server so when people run into groups they don't rage about how unfair it is....

I think part of this is being missed.... some people only play when they can get a group... does that make them any less taking advantage of the game? When you run into a multi boxer you are running into 2-3 characters working together.... just as you would when running into a small group.... you can see how many there are and if you KNOW it is a multi boxer they are at a disadvantage to any equal number of characters who could be grouped up.... this isn't creating some advantage where 1 character is twice as strong... they have weaknesses you can capitalize on just like when facing a "normal" group....

Now I am not saying that the people who abuse F2P aren't taking advantage of the game nor am i saying that the people who multi box and use a bot are not.... both of those types of people are breaking the rules and are intentionally trying to grief players and/or even the game... and something should be done about them...

[Ugmo]

You don't want to play on a special server where everyone you face is a boxer and where boxing is celebrated instead of condemned?

I thought you guys would like the opportunity to fight a couple of people 12 boxing and discuss the finer points of running your own army in OOC without people bugging you.

[Zanishi]

I dont care whichever truthfully... but considering this is more related to an issue of fighting groups of characters rather than one it might be more enticing to those against it to have one special for those who like to engage in 1v1 and solo combat...

I would personally like a Eyes & Guard Server where everyone can max out and fight on equal terms but that isnt likely to happen either...