Gambler needs a DMG boost

[GrinsgarCZ]

I have been mostly in red and yellow line so far. QK does nice dmg and in MM I could heal 3-mans or even easy 6-mans.. those 2 are nice. Gambler seems good for soloing but I found out that I can very easily solo things in QK.

I think Gambler needs his dmg scaled a bit... I went to Limlight Gorge to test my DoTs and sustainable dmg on a Nemesis troll, i did a pure DPS rotation - no debuffing or disabling gambles... I have bleed legacies and cunning attack stack legacy on weapon and I had about 5-8 CA DoTs stacked on him + Gamblers advantage DoT + 4-6 tier gamble. I started with CA from stealth, gamblers strike, CA, gamblers advantage, exposed throat, double edged, cash out dmg gamble, gamblers strike again and so on and I did All in in the end, though it had effect for about 5 secs (dont have the legacy yet:/) so it didnt make much difference. The result was 2.8K dps. In red line I did 4K dps... Self heal from evades was 300 hps in blue line, and 180 hps from crits in red line.. together with 1 touch and go, both were enouhg to keep me alive.

I think 170K morale mob is a situation where a gamblers sustainable dmg should be at least a bit near to QK dps. If I do lot of debuffing gambles and cashing out these and reapply them afterwards, its a different rotation than yes, dps shouldnt be high, but focusing on dmg it should be better

I dont have exactly best equip for Gambler, could have gamble dmg legacy and some others maybe.. but if other classes do hits for 15k+ (heard hunters do crazy hits especially), DoTs which tick from 80 (normal CA) to 800 (T6 gamble).. thats pretty underwhelming.
It seems like these DoTs didnt scale right with rest of the dmg.
Clever Retort bleed with legacy does about 800 dmg and in RoR it did about 700 if i remember right. Most builds (including QK) do up to 2x more dps than they did in RoR while these DoTs changed only little.

On the other hand I really enjoyed playing around with gambler... its just the numbers that should be readjusted a bit imo.

[iolio1]

Agreed. Dots need to be more potent, and ive found 'All in' to add around 20-25% ACTUAL dmg and not 50%

Would be great if we could have a reason to trait outside of QK, because lets face it, the game is basically smash and dash now. No need to f##k around with CC and debuffs when you can plow thru content

[GrinsgarCZ]

ive found 'All in' to add around 20-25% ACTUAL dmg and not 50%

Thats WAI though probably. It would add 50% if you had 0 physical mastery... but because you already have some percentual increase to dmg from mastery (lets say +120%), adding 50% to that increase will increase that actual dmg by those 20-25%

the attack speed buff from All in is more interesting.

[iolio1]

Thats WAI though probably. It would add 50% if you had 0 physical mastery... but because you already have some percentual increase to dmg from mastery (lets say +120%), adding 50% to that increase will increase that actual dmg by those 20-25%

the attack speed buff from All in is more interesting.

Even if you get 80% physical mastery, and use all in to get to 130%, it should actually add more than 50% dmg to your skills, but its still only around 20%ish

Attack speed is nice, but it was much more useful before the fast skill change

[RockX]

I'm taking another look at Gambler DPS levels. If I make any adjustments it would mostly focus around the 'Cash Out' skill and increasing the damage it causes.
As for the 'All In' buff not giving exactly 50%, that's unfortunately what happens when there's multiple sources of damage increases.

[TheOrcsBane]

I'm taking another look at Gambler DPS levels. If I make any adjustments it would mostly focus around the 'Cash Out' skill and increasing the damage it causes.
As for the 'All In' buff not giving exactly 50%, that's unfortunately what happens when there's multiple sources of damage increases.

Maybe boost the DoT on Cunning Attack, as it is pretty pitiful and always has been honestly, unless you can get a positional dev crit.

I like the idea of Gambler DPS being mixed in with bleeds.

[Stever1388]

Even if you get 80% physical mastery, and use all in to get to 130%, it should actually add more than 50% dmg to your skills, but its still only around 20%ish

Attack speed is nice, but it was much more useful before the fast skill change

Because of the way the percentages work, there's a diminishing returns on adding straight percents to your masteries. This is how it has been for a while now, most notably on the champion Fervour stance which said added 20% to melee damage but would normally add much less than that, and is one of the reasons the 10% damage you could get in Ardour stance with the armour set bonuses was actually more powerful, since it added the damage straight to the skill which was then multiplied by your mastery percent. But that's all in the past now since Fervour and Ardour stance no longer exist. But I get off topic...

Basically, when you add 50% to a physical mastery that is already at 80%, you aren't increasing your total damage by 50%, just the bonus multiplier. I've said before it's actually a wording issue. They shouldn't say "+50% damage" they should say "+50% damage multiplier" or something similar.

To give an example, if the base damage of a skill is 100, and your physical mastery is at 0, that skill will do 100 damage (let's ignore mitigations and such), because when physical mastery is at 0 you actually multiply the damage by 1 (you are at 100% of the normal damage). If you increase your physical mastery to 80%, you multiply the damage by 1.8 (180%), so you'd do 180 damage. Now if you are 80% PM already and add the 50% bonus from All In, your PM goes to 130%, so you multiply the 100 by 2.3 (230%) and so you deal 230 damage. But this isn't a 50%, it's only a 27.7% increase (230-180 then divide that by 180). A true 50% increase would have been 270 (180*1.5).

Also attack speed buffs are very powerful, almost more so than most damage increases (well, minor damage increases, not 50% ones). Basically a 5% decrease in attack duration yields a slightly larger than 5% increase in damage. At 20% decrease in attack duration, you are looking at a 25% increase in damage. I'm not sure what All Ins attack duration buff is (burg is about my 4th main), but it could be pretty significant increase in damage.

[Sneaky]

Maybe boost the DoT on Cunning Attack, as it is pretty pitiful and always has been honestly, unless you can get a positional dev crit.

I like the idea of Gambler DPS being mixed in with bleeds.

This.


If you are going to boost our dps, make our t6 damaging gamble dot much higher and effective as well as increasing our other bleeds. Pretty weak atm.

[Tromblon]

I personally disagree. Gambler tree is fine as it is for all of my former legacies are useless in it, I find myself being pretty much undying against even masses of mobs, dealing physical damage at least. I was all Quiet Knife before HD and now, I find myself dealing less damage than before even though my Legacies would be of use in that red tree. If any tree need a damage boost, it's the Quiet Knife one. In Gambler, I could solo the first part of Glinghant at level (was still 85), Tier 1, with ease the other night.. testing. Also did I solo the Forges of Khazad-dum..

I read in another post about the Cash Out being underwhelming and on that I agree. Otherwise that "heal on Evade" thing that can proc every second is just so strong that while dealing less overall damage, it's enough to go through masses with ease. I used to play my Burglar very carefully, planning my attacks on groups, quickly taking down some before the other could wake etc. Now, in Quiet Knife, I can't even solo a four elites group for I can't down any fast enough to rid me of most before the Riddled one wakes up.

I did test stuff around and to get to the same dps I had before in QK I'd have to be focusing on adds for to make the most of Coup-De-Grace and constantly focusing on stealth enhanced skills along with it. So to say that no longer are we the single target damage dealers but rather the "close to healer cleaners".

[GrinsgarCZ]

I personally disagree. Gambler tree is fine as it is for all of my former legacies are useless in it, I find myself being pretty much undying against even masses of mobs, dealing physical damage at least. I was all Quiet Knife before HD and now, I find myself dealing less damage than before even though my Legacies would be of use in that red tree. If any tree need a damage boost, it's the Quiet Knife one. In Gambler, I could solo the first part of Glinghant at level (was still 85), Tier 1, with ease the other night.. testing. Also did I solo the Forges of Khazad-dum..

I read in another post about the Cash Out being underwhelming and on that I agree. Otherwise that "heal on Evade" thing that can proc every second is just so strong that while dealing less overall damage, it's enough to go through masses with ease. I used to play my Burglar very carefully, planning my attacks on groups, quickly taking down some before the other could wake etc. Now, in Quiet Knife, I can't even solo a four elites group for I can't down any fast enough to rid me of most before the Riddled one wakes up.

I did test stuff around and to get to the same dps I had before in QK I'd have to be focusing on adds for to make the most of Coup-De-Grace and constantly focusing on stealth enhanced skills along with it. So to say that no longer are we the single target damage dealers but rather the "close to healer cleaners".

I believe I could solo these things in QK as well, and many times faster than in Gambler. QK does really much much more dps than it did in RoR, you just need to adjust your dps rotation a bit. Gambler tree is fine indeed, we are talking about numbers output.

[Tromblon]

I believe I could solo these things in QK as well, and many times faster than in Gambler. QK does really much much more dps than it did in RoR, you just need to adjust your dps rotation a bit. Gambler tree is fine indeed, we are talking about numbers output.

Well, I do believe I am/was a good burglar before HD. Though I am open to learn for certainly I must miss something if I feel now totally downgraded from before as Quiet Knife. Prior to HD, it was challenging but not too hard to go through the Forges of Khazad-Dum until the two trolls. Trying it back, same level, post-expansion, just clearing the first room and get through the door got me killed a few times in Quiet Knife while building Gambler (forfeiting most of my Legacies bonuses doing so) I could actually gather 2-3 groups of mobs from the first room onto me and slowly kill them all without trouble.. AND solo the whole instance.

I did test stuff on a training dummy I found in Aldburg (I believe it's called?) and to up my dps to as high as before HD, I believe the only way would be to use CdG as often possible AND get a kill from it so to follow up with Cunning Attack or Surprise Strike (the way I was built, prior to HD, was focused on bleed to deal as much possible against bosses so Cunning Attack was dealing more).

Now, I would very gladly like to learn about how to play my burglar for I feel I lost him somewhere before last Wednesday.

[GrinsgarCZ]

I did test stuff on a training dummy I found in Aldburg (I believe it's called?) and to up my dps to as high as before HD, I believe the only way would be to use CdG as often possible AND get a kill from it so to follow up with Cunning Attack or Surprise Strike (the way I was built, prior to HD, was focused on bleed to deal as much possible against bosses so Cunning Attack was dealing more).

Now, I would very gladly like to learn about how to play my burglar for I feel I lost him somewhere before last Wednesday.

I did some testing as well and from a total dps of all fights and listing how much each skill did dmg it came out like that:

1. Flashing Blades (first time ever to do more dmg with some skill in total than with auto attack 2. Melee Auto-Attack 3. Double-edged strike (that skill is nasty) 4. Gamblers Advantage (thats a gamblers skill but I go blue a bit to get it, its worth it) 5. subtle stab 6. feint attack 7. cunning attack 8. CdG

CdG is very nice skill doing lots of dmg and in 1 min parse it does a nice portion of DPS and its great skill to use Aim on but in sustained dps its effect isnt that high.
From those most dmging skills its evident that its good to focus on Crit Chain skills. Have all legacies for that, they are very very effective. I also use 2 armor set bonuses for extra Off-hand damage (used 3 before but I replaced 2 with lvl 95 teals for extra vitality)

for rotation, I posted this in another thread:

My rotation includes 1 skill from blue line, but maybe it will still help you -
I think its an effective rotation as i do much more dps than I did in RoR with unseen set

Open with SS+Addle or Cunning Attack
and then repeat:
feint attack + gamblers advatage + subtle stab + flashing blades + double-edge strike + Coup de grace(if on CD)/cunning attack/SS+addle (depends if i want burst dmg and if there is already CA dot on target)

Im not sure if provoke still consumes feint attack buff, but if not, you could use it as alternative for gamblers advantage

[Elendric]

I won't argue against a damage boost, but I will say that people who are calling for one are underestimating the power and flexibility of the Gambler. Along with the self-heals through Bob and Weave and the healthy sustained damage output, we have the ability to apply some hefty debuffing gambles when we see fit.

Gambling at its heart is a group role; by allowing us to change from damage dealing to debuffing and back again, all on the roll of a dice, makes the spec deliciously potent. A major increase in damage would just result in a nerf bat in the update after it no doubt!

I'm looking forward to seeing a team of Gambling and Mischief burgs in a raid - It should be evil

[Beleg]

I've been playing a burg since the game released, but I'm new to Gambler.

So far I'm just reading the tooltips. I'm confused about Hedge Your Bet (increase gamble potency). It sounds like it does the same thing as Gambler's Strike (add a gamble, or increase it to t6), just not as well. Or is "potency" not the same as "tier"?

Can anyone point me to a good guide? I found some links, but they were no longer working.

[Bootstwaddle]

I've been playing a burg since the game released, but I'm new to Gambler.

So far I'm just reading the tooltips. I'm confused about Hedge Your Bet (increase gamble potency). It sounds like it does the same thing as Gambler's Strike (add a gamble, or increase it to t6), just not as well. Or is "potency" not the same as "tier"?

Can anyone point me to a good guide? I found some links, but they were no longer working.

While the skills are similar, there is one big difference.. Gambler's Strike increases the Tier of an existing Gamble to it's maximum T6, Hedge your Bet only increases the Tier by 1.

So yes, it does about the same thing, but not as well.
And yes, potency is the same as tier.

Although in practice, you could apply a damaging Gamble with Gambler's Strike and immediately increase it's tier/potency (unless it's already at T6) by 1 using Hedge Your Bet (versus waiting the 5 seconds for Gambler's Strike to come off cooldown).

I think Hedge Your Bet was also intended to refresh the length of an existing T6 Damage or Debuffing Gamble .. but I don't recall if it, or Gambler's Strike, does so..

[Iluvatardd]

I just wanna point out that dazing abilities are just stunning XD. Its possible to do daze every 2.5s with provokes and lucky strikes. With both skills you do dmg as well. I can imagine a great pain for mobs without immunity or creeps. Its slow but painful death. Cash out skill needs more dmg and evade rating imo, and additional effect for disabling gamble. Its completely annoying if i want to get dmg gamble after disabling gamble. In that case you have to put debuffing one and cash out becasue disabling can be on for 1 min iirc. Some additional debuff on enemy in that case would be nice (disarm and silence sound right for that )

Also some effect from Hedge your bet on disabling gamble would be nice.

[dwarfThar]

I just wanna point out that dazing abilities are just stunning XD. Its possible to do daze every 2.5s with provokes and lucky strikes. With both skills you do dmg as well. I can imagine a great pain for mobs without immunity or creeps. Its slow but painful death. Cash out skill needs more dmg and evade rating imo, and additional effect for disabling gamble. Its completely annoying if i want to get dmg gamble after disabling gamble. In that case you have to put debuffing one and cash out becasue disabling can be on for 1 min iirc. Some additional debuff on enemy in that case would be nice (disarm and silence sound right for that )

Also some effect from Hedge your bet on disabling gamble would be nice.

The disabling gamble icon only stays 15seconds like the debuffing one. Only the daze can last up to 1min. I agree that cashout should have an effect when cashing out disabling gambles though.
Try a hybrid build blue/yellow and trait for daze grace period... your opponent wont even turn anymore.

[GrinsgarCZ]

I just wanna point out that dazing abilities are just stunning XD. Its possible to do daze every 2.5s with provokes and lucky strikes. With both skills you do dmg as well. I can imagine a great pain for mobs without immunity or creeps. Its slow but painful death. Cash out skill needs more dmg and evade rating imo, and additional effect for disabling gamble. Its completely annoying if i want to get dmg gamble after disabling gamble. In that case you have to put debuffing one and cash out becasue disabling can be on for 1 min iirc. Some additional debuff on enemy in that case would be nice (disarm and silence sound right for that )

Also some effect from Hedge your bet on disabling gamble would be nice.

Dazes are indeed awesome. But it is difficult to use this against creeps cause of diminishing returns. I guess it could be awesome in a group play but in solo action your opponent soon becomes immune to CC.

[Tromblon]

My rotation includes 1 skill from blue line, but maybe it will still help you -
I think its an effective rotation as i do much more dps than I did in RoR with unseen set

Open with SS+Addle or Cunning Attack
and then repeat:
feint attack + gamblers advatage + subtle stab + flashing blades + double-edge strike + Coup de grace(if on CD)/cunning attack/SS+addle (depends if i want burst dmg and if there is already CA dot on target)

Im not sure if provoke still consumes feint attack buff, but if not, you could use it as alternative for gamblers advantage

Now that I got a second age dagger with all legacies rank 6, using the skill rotation you suggested I can really deal loads of damage very quickly. And like you pointed out in some other post, it does depend on your luck for if you don't crit at key moments, you will end up dealing much less DPS than otherwise. Though it can go both ways. I managed to have my flashing blade crit for 9k + 7k with a 3k normal attack in between both hits.

Though recently I've re-speced so I can use both Gambler's Advantage AND Startling Twist, sacrificing the 10% dmg on crit response skills but having the many different stuns is just very appealing to me. Especially the few times I tried it out dueling and fooling around with friends. (8sec stun from ST, Riddle to waste some stun immunity time, then 5 sec stun gives me a load of time to dish out massive damage)

[Bootstwaddle]

For 12.1 I believe there's been a small damage increase to Cash Out, Hedge Your Bet, and the Damaging Gamble.

It's up on Bullroarer, but I haven't been able to check how small the small increase is.