Producer's Letter - Forced server merges?

[TheCrossbow]

You miss the point my friend, virtually everybody on my friends list would have to agree to do the same and to choose the same form of communication. If I do and they don't then it solves nothing does it? There is also the problem of if most of my friends decide Turbine has upset them too much and they quit, why would I or the rest of our friends keep playing rather than go to whatever game they go to? This game doesn't have anywhere near the appeal it used to have if your firends are not here to give it the social aspect anymore.

The problem, here, is that you and your kinship never made the move to take advantage of a variety of "out-of-game" communication services - Website, Forums, Facebook, etc.
If you had done this... like many other kinships have (ours has a website, facebook group, and Teamspeak)... you would be in a better position to deal with situations like this.

As others have said... Turbine has forewarned everyone that this event is coming at some point in the future. You, now, have ample opportunity to talk things through with your friends/kinship and decide where you will move together. Heck, you don't even know if you will be having to move... since Turbine hasn't even really told us which servers may be chopped/merged. So, again, you are way overdoing the alarmist tone...

[Beaniemooch]

Some people are overdoing the alarmist tone. Some people are overdoing the condescending tone. Some people are trying to express their concerns.

Too bad we can't realize this affects us all and appreciate the concerns shared. You never know who is going to be the out-of-favor group next.... and I'm rather sick of all the fanbois-alarmists-fear mongerer-vocal minority-elitists-ezmoder labels.

[Mar-Evayave]

That argument worked really well to keep all those players here after HD didn't it and carries about as much weight now as it did then. The big question is "Is the game attractive enough to overcome how upset they might be over this whole issue and how Turbine handles it, or is it the final straw that drives them away?" I can't speak for everyone, only for myself and the kinmates who have ranted about it all to me. If Turbine gets their act together and handles this well, it may be enough. But if they don't and do their usual job of messing it up and then picking up the pieces later (usually much later) I think most of them will have had enough and leave. That's why I said the ball is in Turbine's court.

Well, now it sounds like you are singing an entirely different song. Your initial objections (or just comments) in reply to several of us about outside communication were along the lines of "well, we don't use TS3, social media, etc, so how are we supposed to keep in contact...?" That has absolutely zero to do with Turbine's xfer. If the xfers go well, or if the xfers go bad, it is not going to affect your ability to communicate. You make a choice: either to find a way to contact each other out of game, or don't. Your choice. Turbine can't make that choice for you. The xfers are coming. Is swapping email addresses or getting a voice chat server so you can communicate out of game really so bad?

For my kin, aside from people I don't know, or people who are "honorary permanent members" who haven't logged in for over two years... there is exactly 1 person in my kin that I don't have specific contact information for. Why? Because me and my kinmates value our friendship so much that we purposefully found ways (many ways: fb, email, steam, 3 different voice chats, etc) to communicate out of game. For that matter, some of us have met each other in real life.

If friendship itself (regardless of what game you play) is important to you, then you can find ways (there are so many of them available) to ensure contact is maintained.

[Celebria]

Yeah, this is interesting because I also thought they had already stated that they could never swing server merges due to their outdated game technology. Guess they actually can. Other than that, I'm not really surprised. It's been easy enough for me to tell for years now that the game has been losing players. Merges are an obvious way to deal with that.

I can understand name and kin concerns, though, since any merge at all would most likely mean that plenty of players will lose their names. I doubt this is all going to be completely voluntary and even if you get a choice, you'll still likely lose names. They could, of course, solve most of the problem by allowing last names since this is an effective way for people to keep first names that are the same since it's less likely the same name will also have the exact same last name.

Also, interesting that there is nothing about extending the license beyond 2017. Again, not surprised since I can pretty much tell that the story is screaming to its end and will be over and done with long before the license runs out, so there really won't be any need to renew. We can enjoy Middle Earth for possibly another 2 years at most, I'm guessing. And I seriously doubt the Tolkien estate is going to let WB just make stuff up beyond Mordor simply so they can keep getting sales in the Turbine store.

[Dordain]

Again, people:

These are not server "merges". They are not merging databases. They are going to have everyone voluntarily pick servers to transfer to, and then close the ones with the lowest populations.


It's been widely speculated that the contract is just for the creation of new content. If so, that wouldn't prevent them from keeping the game open indefinitely in Maintenance Mode if the contract isn't renewed at that point.

[bucko39]

Some people are overdoing the alarmist tone. Some people are overdoing the condescending tone. Some people are trying to express their concerns.

Too bad we can't realize this affects us all and appreciate the concerns shared. You never know who is going to be the out-of-favor group next.... and I'm rather sick of all the fanbois-alarmists-fear mongerer-vocal minority-elitists-ezmoder labels.

Beanie, I know you're not particularly happy right now with the game. I know the news of no new raids for the rest of 2015 didn't sit well with you.

I also know from prior conversations with you in other threads that the upcoming server changes hasn't made things any better.

Initially, I was sympathetic to Wof and her concerns. Now, it seems like she is simply ignoring folks who are genuinely trying to put her at ease.

Personally, I don't have the patience for that so I'll put her on /ignore so I don't come across as condescending (which, to be fair, I may have).

You see folks putting people into yet another "out-of-favour" group...all I see is folks saying "wait a second, pull back, wait until we know all the facts and then reassess"

Just my two cents.

[Hammadryad]

Wof is getting bad mouthed needlessly by certain posters on here. She is posting on behalf of her kin, not just herself. I know, because I just joined her kin and am now privy to the discussions and ranting against what's coming in kinspeach! I think perhaps she should never have agreed to post on behalf of 'everybody' but regardless, there are a lot of very unhappy players ingame and I never knew just how widespread the disatisfaction had spread until I saw it for myself. If the number of people (not just in our kin) who say they are going to quit over these forced transfers, loss of name, loss of property, and possessions, etc (many reasons being ranted against) really do quit, and seeing how heated matters are they probably will, then Turbine are not going to have very many characters to transfer from our server! The anger I am seeing amongst my kin and other players I know is even worse than I saw over Skill Trees and I think the outcome could be even worse. Between the angry ragequitters, the gloomy "whats left to stay for" and the despondent "I just don't care anymore" I am hearing then this really could decimate the population.

[bucko39]

Wof is getting bad mouthed needlessly by certain posters on here. She is posting on behalf of her kin, not just herself. I know, because I just joined her kin and am now privy to the discussions and ranting against what's coming in kinspeach! I think perhaps she should never have agreed to post on behalf of 'everybody' but regardless, there are a lot of very unhappy players ingame and I never knew just how widespread the disatisfaction had spread until I saw it for myself. If the number of people (not just in our kin) who say they are going to quit over these forced transfers, loss of name, loss of property, and possessions, etc (many reasons being ranted against) really do quit, and seeing how heated matters are they probably will, then Turbine are not going to have very many characters to transfer from our server! The anger I am seeing amongst my kin and other players I know is even worse than I saw over Skill Trees and I think the outcome could be even worse. Between the angry ragequitters, the gloomy "whats left to stay for" and the despondent "I just don't care anymore" I am hearing then this really could decimate the population.

This is my last post on this particular thread because frankly it's become tedious to repeat the same thing over and over. If Wof has decided to elect herself for martyrdom then so be it.

Personally, I think she needs to communicate to her kin to take a step back for a second and look at what information we actually have. But given the dramatic tone of her posts and her unwillingness to listen to the folks who are replying back to her, I don't see that happening. One could argue, based on some of her posts, that she is part of the problem (her kin-mates angst, etc). Sometimes a cooler head has to prevail.

There is a great thread started by Ellemere on this forum that has consolidated all the known information in regards to the transfers. While Wof's kin-mates might not be able to post, they sure as hell can read the information provided. I suggest they read it, not assume anything and try not to overreact and blow everything out of proportion.

[Brinswith]

As found in this stickied thread, https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...nderstand-them

People don't want the facts though Bucko they just want to look after their own interests... as my sig says...

[Brinswith]

Wof is getting bad mouthed needlessly by certain posters on here. She is posting on behalf of her kin, not just herself. I know, because I just joined her kin and am now privy to the discussions and ranting against what's coming in kinspeach! I think perhaps she should never have agreed to post on behalf of 'everybody' but regardless, there are a lot of very unhappy players ingame and I never knew just how widespread the disatisfaction had spread until I saw it for myself. If the number of people (not just in our kin) who say they are going to quit over these forced transfers, loss of name, loss of property, and possessions, etc (many reasons being ranted against) really do quit, and seeing how heated matters are they probably will, then Turbine are not going to have very many characters to transfer from our server! The anger I am seeing amongst my kin and other players I know is even worse than I saw over Skill Trees and I think the outcome could be even worse. Between the angry ragequitters, the gloomy "whats left to stay for" and the despondent "I just don't care anymore" I am hearing then this really could decimate the population.

Nothing is being lost all of that stuff will still be there indefinately, i suggest you read my thread on known facts, they are working on getting that stuff to us, until that happens it will be safe. Also coming to the forums and claiming you represent a group, in this case Wof's Kin when that just isn't the case is a very bad move. unless you kin has nominated you and everyone is in agreement.

[Halanderiel]

I told my kin I agree with them about everything and will move wherever they go but really I'm lying and just want to avoid stupid arguments while I'm trying to play the game.

[Rhoewyn]

Wof says (paraphrasing) "We want to play on small server where people don't get in our way, this is unacceptable!!!!" Next Wof says "I have so many friends I play with, and if we end up on different servers I won't be able to locate my vast legion of friends, this is unacceptable!!!" Arguments appear to contradict each other. Next Wof says "My friends and I won't be able to find each other, this is unacceptable!!!" Next Wof says "All my friends and I will move to another game together!!!!" Again, contradictory. If you have no way of contacting them outside of game, you won't move to a new game together. If you are able to conspire, in game, to move to a new game, you are able to conspire, in game, to land on the same server. Heck you can conspire, in game right now, on a means of communicating offline on how to identify each other on your new server (or new game) with minimal effort. This is 2015, not 1995. It isn't hard. At all. You don't want to be part of the solution. You want to scream and make threats under the delusion WBG/Turbine will say, Goodness! We might lose Wof! About face we are keeping them servers online baby! Just stop already. You have crossed into the realm of trolling. Even those that agree with you in principal have started refuting you. Truth is, every business decision comes with risk. My bet, being in risk management, is they've done the math. They have a projected worse case scenario in terms of revenue loss from this and believe it's worth risk. They already know there will be attrition. It's a trade they are willing to make to reduce maintenance costs and have more active communities on the servers that remain. Could they be wrong? Of course, the business landscape is littered with failed ventures. Point is, they know they will lose people, they are betting the number will be small. In my line of work we would consider you among "the lunatic fringe," one of the small subset we know we will lose. No, customers are not a disposable commodity and of course in a dream world we want 100% retention, but that's not real life.

[motumbo]

If I'm reading this correctly, you're saying you won't force anyone to leave their server, but you will close down some servers entirely? Doesn't this mean you're forcing people to leave a server if they want to continue to play on their characters?

Not necessarily , closed can mean 2 things.

1) Shut down the server.. kill switch

2) Simply Disable other people from coming to the server.. I.e. like a blockade. To literally close it off from everyone else.

[Thorgrum]

Wof says (paraphrasing) "We want to play on small server where people don't get in our way, this is unacceptable!!!!" Next Wof says "I have so many friends I play with, and if we end up on different servers I won't be able to locate my vast legion of friends, this is unacceptable!!!" Arguments appear to contradict each other. Next Wof says "My friends and I won't be able to find each other, this is unacceptable!!!" Next Wof says "All my friends and I will move to another game together!!!!" Again, contradictory. If you have no way of contacting them outside of game, you won't move to a new game together. If you are able to conspire, in game, to move to a new game, you are able to conspire, in game, to land on the same server. Heck you can conspire, in game right now, on a means of communicating offline on how to identify each other on your new server (or new game) with minimal effort. This is 2015, not 1995. It isn't hard. At all. You don't want to be part of the solution. You want to scream and make threats under the delusion WBG/Turbine will say, Goodness! We might lose Wof! About face we are keeping them servers online baby! Just stop already. You have crossed into the realm of trolling. Even those that agree with you in principal have started refuting you. Truth is, every business decision comes with risk. My bet, being in risk management, is they've done the math. They have a projected worse case scenario in terms of revenue loss from this and believe it's worth risk. They already know there will be attrition. It's a trade they are willing to make to reduce maintenance costs and have more active communities on the servers that remain. Could they be wrong? Of course, the business landscape is littered with failed ventures. Point is, they know they will lose people, they are betting the number will be small. In my line of work we would consider you among "the lunatic fringe," one of the small subset we know we will lose. No, customers are not a disposable commodity and of course in a dream world we want 100% retention, but that's not real life.

It's fantastic to see that, as predicted, the community is turning on one another and devolving to arguing over semantics, insinuations of intellectual capacity and blatant malice towards one another. How LOTRO ever won awards for community of the year is beyond me. The filth, anquish, pointed vitriol and horrific treatment of others who do not share a similar view is a paradise for those of us, like myself, who enjoy observing human interactions, particularly when said participants enjoy the benefits of anonymity.

I wallow in delight and thrive, meantime the game most of you profess to "love" is seriously wounded and as I expected, the true charecter of the lotro community emerges.

[Rhoewyn]

Wof is getting bad mouthed needlessly by certain posters on here. She is posting on behalf of her kin, not just herself. I know, because I just joined her kin and am now privy to the discussions and ranting against what's coming in kinspeach! I think perhaps she should never have agreed to post on behalf of 'everybody' but regardless, there are a lot of very unhappy players ingame and I never knew just how widespread the disatisfaction had spread until I saw it for myself. If the number of people (not just in our kin) who say they are going to quit over these forced transfers, loss of name, loss of property, and possessions, etc (many reasons being ranted against) really do quit, and seeing how heated matters are they probably will, then Turbine are not going to have very many characters to transfer from our server! The anger I am seeing amongst my kin and other players I know is even worse than I saw over Skill Trees and I think the outcome could be even worse. Between the angry ragequitters, the gloomy "whats left to stay for" and the despondent "I just don't care anymore" I am hearing then this really could decimate the population.

And this; I have absolutely no doubt Wof is fanning the flames and fear mongering in an effort to get enough people on her server upset to the point of quitting in order to try to convince WBG/Turbine to not move forward. Business is change. Life is change. A leader reacts to change by being a calming influence of strength. "Here is the siutation. How do we move forward?" Internally they should be thinking "How do I reduce anxiety for my team? How do I bring us through this?" Stirring the pot is the opposite of what a good leader does. Servers are going to close. Your kin needs to decide how to move forward. Is it find a new game, or figure out the most efficient and inclusive way to all end up together on a a new server in this game. If Wof is the elected or self appointed leader, that is her job. Quitting should not be an option, imo. She should never even mention it. Rather it should be, okay team, what are our priorities for this move (IF you server is even closed) and how can I make this easiest for all of you? That's leadership.

[Rhoewyn]

It's fantastic to see that, as predicted, the community is turning on one another and devolving to arguing over semantics, insinuations of intellectual capacity and blatant malice towards one another. How LOTRO ever won awards for community of the year is beyond me. The filth, anquish, pointed vitriol and horrific treatment of others who do not share a similar view is a paradise for those of us, like myself, who enjoy observing human interactions, particularly when said participants enjoy the benefits of anonymity.

I wallow in delight and thrive, meantime the game most of you profess to "love" is seriously wounded and as I expected, the true charecter of the lotro community emerges.

Are you not entertained? And no malice, just a loss of patience. No insinuations about her capacity, nor any vitriol. Just pointing to the obvious.

[Thorunniel]

Again, people:

These are not server "merges". They are not merging databases. They are going to have everyone voluntarily pick servers to transfer to, and then close the ones with the lowest populations.

Semantics. Being moved is being moved. That they aren't merging databases is the heart of the issue for some of us. If they did that, we wouldn't maybe lose our stuff. But Vyv said the other day they are working to hard to get it all moved. That is what I wanted to hear. Now I just want to see it happen.

[Thorgrum]

Are you not entertained? And no malice, just a loss of patience. No insinuations about her capacity, nor any vitriol. Just pointing to the obvious.

Message boards do not contain tones of voice, body language or facial expressions. Hence determining someone elses intent becomes that much harder.

Your "obvious" is subjective outside of your on personal ethos.

and yes, I find you in particular very entertaining. Tell me more about how other people feel and what their intent is.

[mr_toad]

It's fantastic to see that, as predicted, the community is turning on one another and devolving to arguing over semantics, insinuations of intellectual capacity and blatant malice towards one another. How LOTRO ever won awards for community of the year is beyond me. The filth, anquish, pointed vitriol and horrific treatment of others who do not share a similar view is a paradise for those of us, like myself, who enjoy observing human interactions, particularly when said participants enjoy the benefits of anonymity.

I wallow in delight and thrive, meantime the game most of you profess to "love" is seriously wounded and as I expected, the true charecter of the lotro community emerges.

The only semantics going on here Thorgrum is your use of the word community. The people on this thread aren't representative of actual server communities and are less than 1/10 of 1% of the entire game population. Come play on Landroval, we have an awesome community there.

I've kept my mouth shut mostly in this thread because I'm on a server that probably won't be shut. My heart goes out to those on smaller servers who are concerned about their kins, names, etc. I once changed my characters name, hoping to give it right back to another character of mine. Within that 5 minute process, someone created a new character and took that name. I was heartbroken, much as I tried to tell myself it was only a silly name. I think the more feedback people can give Turbine here, the better the transition will be. I have a lot of hope and confidence that my server will welcome anyone and everyone with open arms.

[Thorgrum]

The only semantics going on here Thorgrum is your use of the word community. The people on this thread aren't representative of actual server communities and are less than 1/10 of 1% of the entire game population. Come play on Landroval, we have an awesome community there.

I've kept my mouth shut mostly in this thread because I'm on a server that probably won't be shut. My heart goes out to those on smaller servers who are concerned about their kins, names, etc. I once changed my characters name, hoping to give it right back to another character of mine. Within that 5 minute process, someone created a new character and took that name. I was heartbroken, much as I tried to tell myself it was only a silly name. I think the more feedback people can give Turbine here, the better the transition will be. I have a lot of hope and confidence that my server will welcome anyone and everyone with open arms.

I lol'd, yep im the ONLY one engaged in semantics, of course you being heartbroken dosent qualify.

Please continue....

[Scirocco]

Not necessarily , closed can mean 2 things.

1) Shut down the server.. kill switch

2) Simply Disable other people from coming to the server.. I.e. like a blockade. To literally close it off from everyone else.

While "closed" could have both meanings, in this context it only has the first. You're the first person I've seen to even hint that the second would apply here, probably because it makes no sense. if an underpopulated server is being closed, it is being shut down to reduce costs. No point in keeping it open but stopping other people from coming to it.

[Frelorn]

Alright, thanks for the feedback folks. This thread has completely derailed and is no longer being constructive.