The Abyss of Mordath server first challenger deeds are not yet active, and cannot yet be earned.

[Rialtan]

If today's update was viewed as an improvement I doubt that most people would want it delayed for up to a week just to reduce downtime by a few hours.

I suspect almost all of the "wait for the raid" comments are from people that simply want more time to farm ash, get unbound keys and run the dungeons without cooldowns.

I think that players just simply want a balanced new raid and a fair challenge on "original challengers" title.

We are tired of broken instances. In this new 3 instances cluster, only 1 is worth to be played.

I can speak only for myself but im tired to be forced following stupid grind mechanics like ashes to get my gear to run a raid.

That's all

[Taldeen]

If today's update was viewed as an improvement I doubt that most people would want it delayed for up to a week just to reduce downtime by a few hours.

You just told the whole story. xD
But no, people just want a decent raid and instance experience.
The new instances are still buggy, boring and unbalanced. They should just rework them^^. Not even talking about the raid or classes.

[kickman77]

Which are two separate pools of loot. Lootbox items are ilvl 337 while the raid items are ilvl 345 (that and the armour from the raid has set bonuses).

But the point being as of today until the riad is released the only way to get the newest gear is loot box only. So those who saved up keys from dailies (smart) or are mass buying keys have a advantage now when raid opens. (Is that not considered pay to win)

[Tel'aran'rhiod]

If today's update was viewed as an improvement I doubt that most people would want it delayed for up to a week just to reduce downtime by a few hours.

I suspect almost all of the "wait for the raid" comments are from people that simply want more time to farm ash, get unbound keys and run the dungeons without cooldowns.

Agreed. In fairness, part of the update is an improvement: who wants to go back to Archet after logging off in the Vales of Anduin? I jest...there's some good things in the update. However the bigger part of the update - Ash, Keys, Instance cool-downs - is not viewed that way.

[istvana]

My comment was limited solely to whether to have one update or two and had nothing to do with whether it was good or bad to delay the raid. That decision was already made.

I share the general view that it is sad that they were going to release a buggy raid and had to be persuaded at the last minute by a firestorm of objections to delay it. Don't they have people that can see for themselves how finished or unfinished things are? Don't they have people that can read comments from people testing it before the final weekend? (history increasingly suggests the answer to each question is "no")

Actually I suspect that I am being unkind - they knew exactly how buggy it was but felt it should be released anyway so it could move from the alpha test on Bullroarer to the usual beta test on live. What they misguessed was how many objections they would get to releasing it on live without server first completion being activated.

Either the raiders who objected spend a *lot* of money (quite possible) or they were afraid that no one would help on Bullroarer in the future if they couldn't get a huge advantage by doing so in terms of server firsts (at least equally possible).

[DKenny]

If today's update was viewed as an improvement I doubt that most people would want it delayed for up to a week just to reduce downtime by a few hours.

I suspect almost all of the "wait for the raid" comments are from people that simply want more time to farm ash, get unbound keys and run the dungeons without cooldowns.

So people who want the update to wait until the raid is actually working simply want to "exploit" for a few more days the way that the expansion was released months ago and was left working that way until now?

[istvana]

Many people want to be able to take advantage of the current features of the game before they are removed.

I didn't use the word "exploit", I never thought of it as an "exploit", and I never saw anything wrong with farming ash in the landscape or drops in the dungeons.

By guessing that most people who wanted the update delayed didn't *like* that part of the update I wasn't implying that they were wrong or that I disagreed with them.

I half like the changes (it seemed too easy to grind top level currency and items before) and half hate them (since I suspect that the motivation was key sales and I detest how ubiquitous the in-game store has become and how much it drives game design).

[DKenny]

Many people want to be able to take advantage of the current features of the game before they are removed.

I didn't use the word "exploit", I never thought of it as an "exploit", and I never saw anything wrong with farming ash in the landscape or drops in the dungeons.

By guessing that most people who wanted the update delayed didn't *like* that part of the update I wasn't implying that they were wrong or that I disagreed with them.

I half like the changes (it seemed too easy to grind top level currency and items before) and half hate them (since I suspect that the motivation was key sales and I detest how ubiquitous the in-game store has become and how much it drives game design).

OK, but given that it's been like that for months, why the urgency in changing now? Why push ahead with an update today when another update, possibly a couple days hence, will be necessary to fix the raid so that it can be played? It seems like an obvious choice to make to have delayed the update for a few days so everything could be done all at once.

[Northwoods]

How about kicking off the Yule fest a little early while we wait?

[Endoloose]

OK, but given that it's been like that for months, why the urgency in changing now? Why push ahead with an update today when another update, possibly a couple days hence, will be necessary to fix the raid so that it can be played? It seems like an obvious choice to make to have delayed the update for a few days so everything could be done all at once.

OR it may be an obvious choice to get the update out without raid.. Because they're not sure if it can be fixed in that time.. Cordovan wrote it would be a matter of days.. But to be honest, Cordovan is not the person working on the raid, and the people WHO do the Work for sure need time to implement the fixes.. Maybe more time is needed? We don't know, time will show
Not changing an allready announced downtime, seems the right way to do it. If fixes can't be made within the time Yule starts.. Then we're getting this update anyway, and fixes later.

Better let Pinion and Crew get the time to fix the raid, and figure out the title thingy too.

[wolfgarde]

Anyone seeing any great lootbox drops now that the update is in??

[kickman77]

Anyone seeing any great lootbox drops now that the update is in??

Nope opened a few got a essence and a shield (cosmetic) that was fugly

[luckygirl1]

I don't want to commit until people get into the office on Monday and do the work on it, but the likely scenario is in the realm of days rather than anything longer.

About 4 p.m server time now. Ready to commit to a date yet to set your customer expectations? More directed to the development team more than Cordovan

[Denhith]

About 4 p.m server time now. Ready to commit to a date yet to set your customer expectations? More directed to the development team more than Cordovan

They'll probably give it a few days to see how many people buy those loot-box keys and try for the raid gear found inside...

Sweet.....will be buying keys tonight when I get home. Thanks SSG!!