Mordor Besieged & Third Age Weapons

[maartena]

So, the Orcs and other humanoid mobs in Morder Besieged drop third age weapons.

Why is that a problem, might you ask? You can simply filter them out, right? Yes, we can filter them out.... but that isn't the issue. Mordor Besieged is supposed to be set in the SECOND AGE, so they are dropping weapons from an era that has not yet come to pass. And you can't really let them drop second age weapons either, because well.... they were just "weapons" in the second age, they were not yet legendary.

The point: Third Age Weapons should really be removed from mobs that are supposedly in the Second Age.

[scorrp10]

Another little tidbit: "you" in MB are supposed to be some long-ago character, and mostly you are referred to just by your class.

But if you collect all the lore pages and come to talk to Elendil, he addresses you by your character name...

[OldMadeOfLions]

The point: Third Age Weapons should really be removed from mobs that are supposedly in the Second Age.

We wanted to, but it ended up being very difficult/impossible to remove them based on location. That's the gameplay reason.

My own personal lore justification for the fact that Third Age weapons can drop while you're in Mordor Besieged is that there wasn't anything inherently-significant about the difference between 3441 S.A. and 1 T.A. -- if you were to get a club in the first year of the Third Age, it's just about as old as that same club in the last year of the Second. If you'd like an additional layer of explanation, you can try this one too: perhaps Our Distant Friend Who Is The Same As You actually got that Third Age weapon during one of the first two years of the Third Age, and it got mixed up into the weather-stained coffer from which you're drawing all your quest rewards/item drops at Tol Send.

But if you collect all the lore pages and come to talk to Elendil, he addresses you by your character name...

That this only happens once is honestly a big relief to me, since it was one of my worries all during development. I bet we fix it.

MoL

[Michaleo]

Categorization of ages and associated artifacts happens after the fact, often long after the fact. Whatever distinguishes Third Age from Second Age items would not have happened discretely. It wasn't like they decided one day to switch from making Second Age to making Third Age. This is especially true given the idea that newer items had "lower" "technology". Over time, they lost the ability to make the more-powerful items until they were no more.

There were certainly some lesser items in earlier ages. Their survival into later ages may be why they are distinguished by that label but does not preclude their existing at an earlier time.

You are experiencing the Second Age from the perspective of someone who "lived" into the Third Age. Like a period film that anachronistically uses the term World War I before there was a World War II, it may be technically incorrect but nonetheless more understandable to the audience.

Now let's get serious and talk about "Supreme" being the sixth of thirteen (so far) tiers of crafting.

[maartena]

We wanted to, but it ended up being very difficult/impossible to remove them based on location. That's the gameplay reason.

My own personal lore justification for the fact that Third Age weapons can drop while you're in Mordor Besieged is that there wasn't anything inherently-significant about the difference between 3441 S.A. and 1 T.A. -- if you were to get a club in the first year of the Third Age, it's just about as old as that same club in the last year of the Second. If you'd like an additional layer of explanation, you can try this one too: perhaps Our Distant Friend Who Is The Same As You actually got that Third Age weapon during one of the first two years of the Third Age, and it got mixed up into the weather-stained coffer from which you're drawing all your quest rewards/item drops at Tol Send.

MoL

Yes.... BUT.... isn't it true that a weapon doesn't become "Legendary" until it has a significant age to it? According to Lore, the Fourth Age began after the destruction of the One Ring, so that is where we were - more or less - with the release of the Iron Hills, Vales of Anduin, etc.... The destruction of the ring as depicted in the Mordor expansion set the end of the Third Age. So... with that said, should those two zones not drop Fourth Age weapons by now? (Green ones, I suppose? ) Or.... would "Fourth Age" weapons simply not be old enough to be legendary, and just considered "Current Day Weapons", which go on sale at the local blacksmith.

In that context, a "Day 1 Third Age Weapon" would not be anything "Legendary", it would just be an ordinary sword, one that was forged by a local blacksmith, stolen by an orc on the battle field and then subsequently looted from that orc by the free peoples aka US!.... one that still needed to be proven, one that doesn't have a history or legend attached to it.... a weapon that would not become legendary until passed along a few generations and the energy of the tales and battles it was used in was forged within it!

I accept the game technical reason. But I am not sure about your lore justification...

[HappyCappy]

There is another reason why third ages would drop. That reason is because you are not actually IN the second age. Instead, you are living a memory, but you physically are actually in the third age. Technically, the entire time that you are in the second age you are not physically there according to the story.

[Erionor]

There is another reason why third ages would drop. That reason is because you are not actually IN the second age. Instead, you are living a memory, but you physically are actually in the third age. Technically, the entire time that you are in the second age you are not physically there according to the story.

... and then you step out of the shower, and it was all a dream ...

[Starsmith]

Yes.... BUT.... isn't it true that a weapon doesn't become "Legendary" until it has a significant age to it? According to Lore, the Fourth Age began after the destruction of the One Ring, so that is where we were - more or less - with the release of the Iron Hills, Vales of Anduin, etc.... The destruction of the ring as depicted in the Mordor expansion set the end of the Third Age. So... with that said, should those two zones not drop Fourth Age weapons by now? (Green ones, I suppose? ) Or.... would "Fourth Age" weapons simply not be old enough to be legendary, and just considered "Current Day Weapons", which go on sale at the local blacksmith.

In that context, a "Day 1 Third Age Weapon" would not be anything "Legendary", it would just be an ordinary sword, one that was forged by a local blacksmith, stolen by an orc on the battle field and then subsequently looted from that orc by the free peoples aka US!.... one that still needed to be proven, one that doesn't have a history or legend attached to it.... a weapon that would not become legendary until passed along a few generations and the energy of the tales and battles it was used in was forged within it!

I accept the game technical reason. But I am not sure about your lore justification...

All of LotRO (barring Mordor Besieged) is still in the Third Age! The ship taking the Ringbearers over the Sea has not yet set sail!

When Gandalf, Frodo, Elrond, and Galadriel leave, taking the Three with them, *then* the Third Age will end.

A Day 1 Third Age weapon would certainly be 'legendary' when you pick it up out of a box on Tol Send; after all, Isildur just got through telling you the tale of how it came to be in that chest (along with all those other unimportant details), which is quite a legend.

Now we need to know how all those fragments of Rohirric text got in there...

[Raymore]

While Legendary Weapons are to be thought of as something truly noteworthy, I find it funny that all these simpleton Orcs, are dropping them all over the place.

What would a Legendary Club look like anyway? Well varnished?

[Phantion]

We wanted to, but it ended up being very difficult/impossible to remove them based on location. That's the gameplay reason.

My own personal lore justification for the fact that Third Age weapons can drop while you're in Mordor Besieged is that there wasn't anything inherently-significant about the difference between 3441 S.A. and 1 T.A. -- if you were to get a club in the first year of the Third Age, it's just about as old as that same club in the last year of the Second. If you'd like an additional layer of explanation, you can try this one too: perhaps Our Distant Friend Who Is The Same As You actually got that Third Age weapon during one of the first two years of the Third Age, and it got mixed up into the weather-stained coffer from which you're drawing all your quest rewards/item drops at Tol Send.



That this only happens once is honestly a big relief to me, since it was one of my worries all during development. I bet we fix it.

MoL

Is there a similar gameplay reason behind the anachronistic Blue Caste Sorcerers who appear in the Easterling camp? After all, they are a mid-Third Age group that kind of require the strange, mysterious characters of Yirhkosar the Blue and Yetkeyin the Violet (apologies for any errors in spelling) to make their respective appearances in their regions. So, I'm not sure if it makes sense to me that Second Age Easterling Sorcerers are wearing the robes of the later Khundolar Blue Caste, which is a mid-Third Age thing from what the game-lore tells us or hints at in the Great River / Brown-Lands region. I'd really like it to make sense somehow!

[TheRedfox]

Is there a similar gameplay reason behind the anachronistic...

I see any anachronisms and oddities being explained as this is all a story being told to us by someone who's been mostly alone (w/1 person for company) for a long long time. He's had his memory wiped how many times over the ages? We're just lucky he can string two word together, let alone tell us a tale with any accuracy.

[Narthalion]

Yes.... BUT.... isn't it true that a weapon doesn't become "Legendary" until it has a significant age to it?

Maartena, don't be silly. You know very well that a weapon doesn't become "Legendary" until:

A. You dispose of it after five levels. or

B. You imbue it and grind the living (censored) out of it for five thousand man-hours in actual game time.

At that point, it truly feels like you have worked on it for several millennia, and therefore the "Lore" fits.

[Narthalion]

What would Legendary Club look like anyway? Well varnished?

I was at a "Legendary Club" once. Amazing music. The dancers were fantastic as well.

[Elflord410]

There is another reason why third ages would drop. That reason is because you are not actually IN the second age. Instead, you are living a memory, but you physically are actually in the third age. Technically, the entire time that you are in the second age you are not physically there according to the story.

Oh dear, now we are in quantum string theory or temporal paradox if we are receiving 3rd age weapons on our characters in the 3rd age from "another character" in the 2nd age. MoL, you're going to create a rift in the time/space continuum.

[TheRedfox]

Oh dear, now we are in quantum string theory or temporal paradox if we are receiving 3rd age weapons on our characters in the 3rd age from "another character" in the 2nd age. MoL, you're going to create a rift in the time/space continuum.

LOTRO 2.0 is launching next year with the new alternate timeline where Saruman wins; all of these current paradoxes are just to establish the backstory for the spin-off game. The game will take place in a Sci-Fi based setting thanks to Saruman's use of technology...

[DKenny]

The better solution would be to have all mobs stop dropping any sort of legendary weapons after level 100. The system is bad enough up to that point, however, there's no real need for having buckets full of "legendary" weapons dropping routinely from regular landscape mobs.

[Raymore]

Now that Sauron is defeated and his forces in disarray, why are the enemy mobs stronger than when he was around?

[Ballie]

I can tell you of my uncanny ability to avoid all of the orcs who put siege to Minas Tirith daily but would form a horde to raid the Westermnet for scroll cases and scholar mats, unseen.

[Olebenny]

According to Lore, the Fourth Age began after the destruction of the One Ring

Off topic but i just could not resist, the 4th age doesnt start until all the ring bearers leave middle earth, the last being Samwise (yes he wore the one ring in the books)

I think gondor may recognize it a little earlier if i am remembering cirrectly, technically 2 years after the ring was destroyed i believe? That one im not sure about but in the end its really when they all leavr

[TharbadThief]

Off topic but i just could not resist, the 4th age doesnt start until all the ring bearers leave middle earth, the last being Samwise (yes he wore the one ring in the books)

I think gondor may recognize it a little earlier if i am remembering cirrectly, technically 2 years after the ring was destroyed i believe? That one im not sure about but in the end its really when they all leavr

The last year of 3rd age was 3021 (1421 Shire Reckoning). That year, in Sep 29th, Frodo, Bilbo and the bearers of the Three Rings leave Middle-earth. Sam stays, becomes a mayor of the Shire, and Rosie spawns new hobbits like they were rabbits.