Too many requests, slow down.

[Braer]

When a loophole/exploit is discovered, we are forced to take necessary action to address the underlying problem and the method is not always ideal. I cannot discuss details in this particular case because that has the potential to reveal other weaknesses. I also understand that you feel you're being punished, but that is not our intention. The next game update should loosen restrictions, and multiple teams will work together on determining what, where, and how systems need to be redesigned so that you don't need to click hundreds of times. This is not for a single person to decide and therefore methodical coordination, decision making, and action need to take place on top of our already busy schedule on top of the challenges we are facing because of the pandemic.

Some of us do feel for you guys, however secrecy engenders suspicion. So when infrastructure "updates" occur alongside a very limited explanation and it's only later revealed there's been pressure to "leverage" fixed costs to satisfy a corporate goal we might think it's a degradation of the service. When you have management level input displaying a contempt of the player-base to satisfy an accountancy/sales target over robust implementation we might think they don't care. When the only regular staff display of game-play shows incomprehension of basic game mechanics and abject unwillingness to "better" their lot we might believe the remit is to engender a demographic to be guided/reliant on the store. When marketing focuses on selling the fluff in the top tier packages and ignores the core game content intensions we can think they aren't appreciative of your efforts.

Our bubbles are our defence mechanisms, at least the convid-19 one will get popped at some point next year, others will remain in place; the price of survival? Do what you can, GL.

[Pavlin]

My impression from the comments so far is that some people figured out how to do something NOT intended. Which goes above and beyond just buying things quickly. If so, I'm sure those people know exactly what they did and exactly why SSG had to take steps to stop it. Unfortunately, those steps end up punishing everyone, so as usual the exploiters really just end up hurting the players who did nothing wrong.

Back in time / think was in cataclism expansion/ in other game. WoW we have Arena exploit with one of the classes. Blizzard just say with in game msg and on forums - guys there is a exploit- explained with details- DO NOT use it. Everyone who use it will get baned. We work on fix. Guess what, some ppl continue to use it- get baned for a week then perma if they repeat. Exploit was in gane, and NO ONE use it anymore. Blizz fix it month or smth later. Done. No BS like we have here "" we will put 1.2 sec CD on clicks. with 3 sec punishmend CD if you are unlucky and click too fast, and first we pretend that future is not in game and skip out answers to the question asking in life streams, pretending we dont see them. then we call it a bug, and now we call it a nesesery future till we fix some MISTERIOUS exploit, while in the same time we put reputation items locked behind quest wall, making them useles to ppl who are able to buy them, because at the time they done this quest, they will be close to cap. Sry, i wont take this ""pill"" .

[Braer]

My impression from the comments so far is that some people figured out how to do something NOT intended. Which goes above and beyond just buying things quickly. If so, I'm sure those people know exactly what they did and exactly why SSG had to take steps to stop it. Unfortunately, those steps end up punishing everyone, so as usual the exploiters really just end up hurting the players who did nothing wrong.

And you've fallen for dangerous ploy to blame a minority rather than poor implementation. Maybe someone gets a kick out of clicking a button for an hour and getting some friends to do the same but I imagine it gets (got) old very quickly. The three clicks and wait got old immediately.

If you had been slack with inventory management you might even be perceived to be at fault here just for opening up some storage slots. Liken it to the queue at the bank teller and the guy ahead of you has bags of copper coins to process. You hate them already. Banks set limits on coin bag exchange numbers and charge if it's not your bank, they don't slow down every customer/teller transaction and won't turn that new $10 note back into coins immediately. Even a helpful message in kin chat reminding players they can save on storage by a currency exchange could get the undesired impact and perceived as a threat. Normal game-play. If you have a connexion to the chat server that is.

[Arnenna]

@Arnenna, you're confusing cooks with farmers. Cooks don't plant, they... they cook
Farmer has no speed buff while harvesting, probably it's the same process as collecting ore, time reduced by your tool? So, it also makes 2/3.

Anyway let's see how it will be "loosened" in the next update, with all those valars 75% off people probably are having hard times bartering for scrolls as is.

Cooks farm. There are two steps to farming. Sowing and Harvesting. They plant fields (sowing) to obtain crops (harvesting) and the VIP xp speed boost is applied while planting those fields (during the sowing phase). They do not get the speed buff while harvesting, you are correct in that, but they do while sowing seeds. They also get the speed buff while sorting those harvested crops at a workbench, and then again, when cooking those ingredients.

I have three cooks, so I know how they work.

Speed buff needs to be removed from planting. Cooks then have 2 options where they can still use the speed buff, just like other professions.

If cooking is the secondary profession and not the primary (where they do not have farming as an option), jeweller for example, the alt will have their VIP speed buffs on their primary profession (turning ore to ingots and making jewellery) .

[maartena]

When a loophole/exploit is discovered, we are forced to take necessary action to address the underlying problem and the method is not always ideal. I cannot discuss details in this particular case because that has the potential to reveal other weaknesses. I also understand that you feel you're being punished, but that is not our intention. The next game update should loosen restrictions, and multiple teams will work together on determining what, where, and how systems need to be redesigned so that you don't need to click hundreds of times. This is not for a single person to decide and therefore methodical coordination, decision making, and action need to take place on top of our already busy schedule on top of the challenges we are facing because of the pandemic.

The current code for vendors is a good start: Press CTRL + Buy for a "stack", press ALT + Buy to fill in an amount, and SHIFT + Buy to FILL a stack. (I could have the button order wrong, but you get the idea).

So, you want to buy a STACK of Reputation Acceleration tomes from the skirmish camp, you can do it in one click. Or, type in an amount if you want to have say.... 23 of them.

That vendor code should be present at all barter NPC's across the world. It should not matter if the currency is in-game gold, marks, or festival tokens.

[Thornglen]

And you've fallen for dangerous ploy to blame a minority rather than poor implementation. Maybe someone gets a kick out of clicking a button for an hour and getting some friends to do the same but I imagine it gets (got) old very quickly. The three clicks and wait got old immediately.

If you had been slack with inventory management you might even be perceived to be at fault here just for opening up some storage slots. Liken it to the queue at the bank teller and the guy ahead of you has bags of copper coins to process. You hate them already. Banks set limits on coin bag exchange numbers and charge if it's not your bank, they don't slow down every customer/teller transaction and won't turn that new $10 note back into coins immediately. Even a helpful message in kin chat reminding players they can save on storage by a currency exchange could get the undesired impact and perceived as a threat. Normal game-play. If you have a connexion to the chat server that is.

I'm not saying there isn't poor implementation somewhere along the line here, but I also think you are being purposefully obtuse when it comes to why they possibly needed to do this.

If my interpretation is correct, it is not like the person in front of you having a sack of coins. It is like the person in front of ou robbing the bank. Is it going to affect your day? Yep. Does the bank need security to handle such things? Yep. could the bank have done more to prevent it? Maybe. But right now they have to deal with what is in front of them in a way they can.

[Braer]

I'm not saying there isn't poor implementation somewhere along the line here, but I also think you are being purposefully obtuse when it comes to why they possibly needed to do this.

If my interpretation is correct, it is not like the person in front of you having a sack of coins. It is like the person in front of ou robbing the bank. Is it going to affect your day? Yep. Does the bank need security to handle such things? Yep. could the bank have done more to prevent it? Maybe. But right now they have to deal with what is in front of them in a way they can.

So treating us all like bank robbers, I think not. Lets agree it's a middle ground and they can't be so certain of the intent of the person in front of the teller weighed down with money bags.

What SSG fear is to be held hostage if players threaten a protest when grievances are ignored. They have unwittingly proved the strategy as sound in the case of "naked" loads and empty yards. A nudge didn't work for years, making them take a look had a miraculous change brought about. They don't have our game-play experiences to count on, sadly, along with years of denial. Easier to fall into paranoia rather than go check the code and reveal your mistakes.

[Thornglen]

So treating us all like bank robbers, I think not. Lets agree it's a middle ground and they can't be so certain of the intent of the person in front of the teller weighed down with money bags.

What SSG fear is to be held hostage if players threaten a protest when grievances are ignored. They have unwittingly proved the strategy as sound in the case of "naked" loads and empty yards. A nudge didn't work for years, making them take a look had a miraculous change brought about. They don't have our game-play experiences to count on, sadly, along with years of denial. Easier to fall into paranoia rather than go check the code and reveal your mistakes.

I'm just pointing out that everyone who is saying the "exploit" is the ability to buy things quickly is either missing or intentionally overlooking other possibilities.

[Braer]

Only a Yeoman can farm and cook, there are no primary and secondary professions, that is only a perception of a player. It's also nothing to do with the tabs on the crafting panel either or my Metalsmith would be primarily a Prospector.

Yeoman Cooks can Farm. Farmers got a generous speed boost to harvesting some while back, it didn't need more.

I think I know harvesting so neither a click nor the DEL key are anywhere to be seen.

There are plenty of things in the game I don't agree with, crafting providing exp amongst them. But you have to make the best of it...

To think back to the early days I used to sow then turn a bit, sow and turn a bit. Get about five or six planted then click on a name tag, the white lettering mind not the gap around or inside the lettering, I'd turn again so as not to try harvest the same crop and have a crop disappear on me, the n00b. Not as bad as the guy who planted a hundred crops and just watched them disappear, scratching his head.

Once the sowing has done the selected amount it's spamming two keys the required number and can then sit back to watch it finish off.

[Braer]

I'm just pointing out that everyone who is saying the "exploit" is the ability to buy things quickly is either missing or intentionally overlooking other possibilities.

Yeah the exploit is the ability to continue the process without a diminution of resources so you can continue ad infinitum. The first fix to hobble every transaction even with an expendable resource, the vast majority of such transactions. At least I hope, unless the servers can no longer handle "normal" intended game-play? Their fear is that they don't have the game-play experience to know where else it might be in play and don't trust any of us to tell them. Fear again denying them the thoughts to even seek our help by being transparent.

[Arnenna]

Only a Yeoman can farm and cook, there are no primary and secondary professions, that is only a perception of a player. It's also nothing to do with the tabs on the crafting panel either or my Metalsmith would be primarily a Prospector.

Yeoman Cooks can Farm. Farmers got a generous speed boost to harvesting some while back, it didn't need more.

I think I know harvesting so neither a click nor the DEL key are anywhere to be seen.

There are plenty of things in the game I don't agree with, crafting providing exp amongst them. But you have to make the best of it...

To think back to the early days I used to sow then turn a bit, sow and turn a bit. Get about five or six planted then click on a name tag, the white lettering mind not the gap around or inside the lettering, I'd turn again so as not to try harvest the same crop and have a crop disappear on me, the n00b. Not as bad as the guy who planted a hundred crops and just watched them disappear, scratching his head.

Once the sowing has done the selected amount it's spamming two keys the required number and can then sit back to watch it finish off.

All the professions have a primary and secondary craft within them. The primary being the crafting profession that is coupled up with a gathering method, and then the secondary being one that requires external resources.

Yeoman. Cook, Farmer, Tailor. Cook (primary) uses the ingredients obtained by farming (the gathering method), but to utilise tailoring, they will require an external source of leathers.
Armourer. Metalsmith, Prospector, Tailor. Metalsmith uses ingots obtained from processing materials obtained by prospecting, but to utilise tailoring, they will require an external source of leathers.
Armsman. Weaponsmith, Prospector, Woodworker. Weasponsmith uses ingots obtained from processing materials obtained by prospecting, but to utilise woodworking, they will require an external source of planks/boards.
Tinker. Jeweller, Prospector, Cook. Jeweller uses ingots obtained from processing materials obtained by prospecting, but to utilise cooking, they will require an external source of ingredients.
Historian. Scholar, Farmer, Weaponsmith. Scholar uses ingredients obtained from farming, as well as items gathered from landscape nodes, but to utilise weaponsmith, they will require an external source of ingots.
Explorer. Tailor, Prospector, forester. Tailor uses hides gathered on landscape to make leather for crafting. they have no secondary craft but have two extra gathering options for items they do not use to craft items.
Woodsman. Woodworker, Forester, Farmer. Woodworker uses planks/boards obtained from processing materials obtained by foresting. They have no secondary craft but have an extra source of gathering.

With regard to farming, it's two part process is where some folk see the issue. Planting seeds, with a VIP speed boost is a very fast way to afk farm XP. Harvesting, no so much, but that doesn't have the VIP speed boost so isn't an issue. Yeomans, Scholars and Woodworkers can all afk plant fields rapidly with the boost on, without even bothering to harvest.

[Braer]

A Sow only strategy would diminish a resource I suppose, a little gold. Harvesting included along with vendoring all processed crops generates gold now-a-days. But we all know character level isn't the be all end all of the game yet we still have people thinking it is. Whether it's afk sowing, valars or Warg Pens it's setting themselves up to fail where it matters. I have too many craft alts to consider any profession as secondary any more, especially with the introduction of crafting carry-alls, VIP services and guild access changes.

If people are choosing to take shortcuts then they aren't likely to put the effort in so either won't progress or set themselves to pay later, and pay and pay...

[Arnenna]

A Sow only strategy would diminish a resource I suppose, a little gold. Harvesting included along with vendoring all processed crops generates gold now-a-days. But we all know character level isn't the be all end all of the game yet we still have people thinking it is. Whether it's afk sowing, valars or Warg Pens it's setting themselves up to fail where it matters. I have too many craft alts to consider any profession as secondary any more, especially with the introduction of crafting carry-alls, VIP services and guild access changes.

If people are choosing to take shortcuts then they aren't likely to put the effort in so either won't progress or set themselves to pay later, and pay and pay...

As someone with another army of crafting alts, I agree with you on all those counts. But it's been suggested, by more than a few people that this new measure has been put in place to try and prevent players from farming up swift style (sowing with a VIP speed boost) to 45, in an hour or two and then chewing up all the rep items to earn LP before rinse and repeat. I'm not convinced that it is that, but if it is, then the removal of the speed buff from planting fields, will stop it in it's tracks. It doesn't need to be there. Players getting VIP crafting speed buffs via farming, also get them at the workbench, then again, at whatever craft they do besides farming (cook for example, gets speed buff on sowing, processing crops, then again on cooking). They shouldn't get all three, they should get two, like other professions.

Alternatively, and the better option IMO, is to just get rid of all XP from crafting, and put it where it should be, but I doubt they will ever do that.

[Fegefeuer]

As someone with another army of crafting alts, I agree with you on all those counts. But it's been suggested, by more than a few people that this new measure has been put in place to try and prevent players from farming up swift style (sowing with a VIP speed boost) to 45, in an hour or two and then chewing up all the rep items to earn LP before rinse and repeat. I'm not convinced that it is that, but if it is, then the removal of the speed buff from planting fields, will stop it in it's tracks. It doesn't need to be there. Players getting VIP crafting speed buffs via farming, also get them at the workbench, then again, at whatever craft they do besides farming (cook for example, gets speed buff on sowing, processing crops, then again on cooking). They shouldn't get all three, they should get two, like other professions.

Alternatively, and the better option IMO, is to just get rid of all XP from crafting, and put it where it should be, but I doubt they will ever do that.

You can't level to 45 in an hour or two. I have tested this. You need around 1h with 100% XP tome activated to reach lvl20.

[Arnenna]

You can't level to 45 in an hour or two. I have tested this. You need around 1h with 100% XP tome activated to reach lvl20.

You just confirmed what I thought, hence why I don't think the farm up to 45 thing is the real reason behind this change (stated many times previously), but that's not stopping people from saying it's to blame. People are still pointing fingers at VIPs for using their speed boost here on the forums, as being the root of the problem. I've never tried it, so wouldn't know. I rarely pick a profession on a new alt before arriving at Bree, post level 20.

Still though, as a result of the storm, I've realised that the farming profession is adding a layer of speed buff to characters that have it as a gathering method that non farming characters don't get, so it shouldn't really be there.

Speed buff active . . .
while sowing and again while sorting crops after harvesting.

If there is any truth in the suggestion that VIP AFK speed farming is at fault, then they can easily solve it by removing the buff from the former, and have sowing accumulate XP at a normal speed.

[LadySelene]

Btw, as someone mentioned buying barter/rep items in stacks - please add an (optional) confirmation dialog to it.
...remembers how I accidentally bought 500 of something like raw meat from a supplier, with an intention to get 15 - misclick, and here go my money. Which wasn't exactly much, while I was leveling a newbie cook. After that I actually did click-click-click one at a time when I needed 10 ingredients, fearing I would press a wrong button again.

[BigLotroFan]

Often times when the devs say they are investigating alternatives to some fix they come back with an overly complicated solution that people hate even more. I'd be very surprised if they came back with a simple barter a stack function without adding additional hoops to jump through...

[Overeem]

Good to finally know it was added intentionally.

But why not mention it, and why, when it was implemented?

[Braer]

Good to finally know it was added intentionally.

But why not mention it, and why, when it was implemented?

Annoying your customers is better than the perceived alternative?

Just a distraction, blame it on a minority to placate the mob. Forgive the Roman politics but it all falls apart when you loose the mob you derive your power from.