Bullroarer Update 30.3 - Beta 3 - CLOSED

[wispsong]

If the primary goal is to simplify the system for new people coming in, I think you're setting yourself up to fail on that front. Level-locked traceries and enhancement runes with multiple tiers in each window is going to cause a lot of undue grief the same way level 50-95 crystals and SoE's currently do. GM's will be doing a lot of currency refunding because people didn't realize they were bartering for stuff they couldn't actually use or was less useful than an alternative. Or they won't refund and call it user error and then you'll have a bunch of confused and pissed off customers to deal with.

If the secondary goal is to satisfy existing players, I can tell you as a player who has been around since 2008 and participated in Bullroarer that I am dreading this update. With a few exceptions, my characters have been using their same ILI's since the system was released 6 years ago, and even though the work getting them maxed out was considerable, it helped that it happened in steps (3-4 new legacy tiers at a time) and I knew the only thing I needed was a few crystals and SoE's, and to swap for better relics and titles as they came along.

Now it's like the whole weapon is full of relic slots that you stack a massive amount of SoE's on, but only certain SoE's at certain thresholds, and eventually everything is going to expire and you get to restack new SoE's on new relics. It really strips away everything inherently unique and consistent about our LI's and turns it into another system we'll re-grind with every level increase, which frankly I don't know if I have to energy to do that for one character's weapons, let alone all 15.

I mean, the premise of the Legendary Item system is a weapon that grows with you as you use it. Now the only thing that will grow is the dps when you reforge it. Everything else is accessories you have to find or buy. I understand the need to monetize the game, but this is adding toll booths to a road that's already been built when we were promised a light rail a half-decade ago.

I know you're new and I really do appreciate the time and effort you've made to engage with the playerbase on multiple fronts, but it simply isn't enough to know someone's listening if there's no change as a result, and it has been excruciating to watch this team repeat its mistakes year after year as we scream into the void.

The system already is simplified by getting all legacies and relics under one setting. Lot's of items we now have won't be necessary anymore like the crystals for this and that. No more imbuement.

For players like me who play little endgame and mostly the solo part of it only on one or two characters this looks like an improvement because with the traceries being replaced every so many levels we don't have to find 100s of scrolls for every character just to catch up. And the dps/heal crystals are replaced by reforging so no more chasing of them either. So actually 50-cap nobody really has to worry about traceries.

If you want/need the best weapon what is wrong with regrinding the tracery levels? you have to do it with every other piece of equipment. It prevents the hording to be prepared for the next upgrade, only those who min/max need to do this and I'm sure drops will be plentiful in fellowship instances just as they are now. The ILI already is a system and should have never existed in the form it does because it does NOT grow with us. Now at least the dps does.

As I see it this system will be better for new characters because they don't have to make up for 100s of scrolls and 10s of crystals to be able to play through new content and become viable at end game since everybody starts "new" there now. It will also be better for existing characters who never got into this scroll grind due to the endless repetitive content required to do so. And festivals due to the crystal grind have become stale.

[Braer]

Great feedback feedback.

Ultimately a shell, the contents of which we must replace just not as often and not as immediate as 50 - 100 LIs.
Not as simple as ILIs that required us to chase just two resources.
The lazy, inept or entitled who found even that beyond them re-forge Nirvana.
A new shared capped currency that has to be managed over a huge level range for as many 50+ character we play.
Phased in to SSG's not the Player's priorities in mind.
Single lore appropriate but poorly catered travel option and game performance ignoring location for bartering/purchase. Elrond's peaceful contemplation ruined forever.
Re-forge mechanic usurped with no appreciation of impact.

Again no expressed concern over the raid farm vs solo landscape player's access to resources.

Opportunities to make the best of it and make the worst of it for others just not quite so much as before.

[greendarner]

For context, I'm a Founder and a Lifer on my primary account, and have a second Lifer account purchased when we could not have more than five characters and there wasn't enough content to keep us busy. I've never taken a significant break from the game. At present, I have seven level 130's and numerous characters at differing levels who also have LIs (though,non-imbued). And I QUAIL before the apparent grind coming down the pike with this LI update. And update is all that it is, it does not address the grind grind grind that we have so desperately asked for so many, many times. Maybe it will reduce it, but we're getting next to no information on that. People keep bring up the grind again and again, and crickets from TPTB on this concern (if I missed it, someone point me to where anyone SAYS this will be less grind?). And SAYING that you want to communicate better is NOT THE SAME as actually communicating better!

I agree with Post #75 completely.

If you want/need the best weapon what is wrong with regrinding the tracery levels? you have to do it with every other piece of equipment. It prevents the hording to be prepared for the next upgrade, only those who min/max need to do this and I'm sure drops will be plentiful in fellowship instances just as they are now. The ILI already is a system and should have never existed in the form it does because it does NOT grow with us. Now at least the dps does.

Because we have already DONE the grind, and now you think it's good to make us do it more, when the supposed goal was to make this less grind, less complicated, and less of a cause of people (veterans and noobs alike) throwing up their hands and leaving the game? Why doesn't that "count" with you, or more importantly, why wouldn't it count with SSG (It should, but it seems it does not). Why is preventing "hording" (its hoarding) desirable or relevant? And it's not hoarding, it is (or was) preparing for the future when you have the resources in front of you. If one wants to participate in raid content, one needs to have better than "good enough for landscape" gear. This is specifically a company decision (when it was Turbine and continuing on to being SSG), and only recently (one year out of fourteen) have any of the instances/raids been able to be done to just get the basic story level that has been gated away from the populace who do not raid (for whatever reason). My kin and I raid, but we are far, far from "uber" or min/maxxers, only doing the lower tiers; in our case, its from lack of time or inclination to grind harder and longer. The "uber" players would want nothing to do with us, our equipment is not good enough. And what/which are these "other pieces of equipment you think we have to grind to improve in the same manner as improving legendary items?

As I see it this system will be better for new characters because they don't have to make up for 100s of scrolls and 10s of crystals to be able to play through new content and become viable at end game since everybody starts "new" there now. It will also be better for existing characters who never got into this scroll grind due to the endless repetitive content required to do so. And festivals due to the crystal grind have become stale.

You are only looking at it through your Mememeeee Spectacles. The people who raid are an important part of this game, whether YOU like it or not (of course, all players are important). And people currently at end level you think should be punished with more grind because . . . they're already at end level? How is that fair or makes any sense at all? We're all totally on board with not making people have to collect 100s of scrolls, crystals, and misc other stuff, but most of us DON'T think it should also come at the expense of established characters, and that's how this is trending and what you seem to be advocating.

NOTE: For all those who hate Lifer accounts and think its all cream and no monetary payout, I can speak for myself and say that I spend quite a bit on LP points over the course of a year, and I buy all the expansions, usually the highest level. That is, of course, not required and is MY choice and I have the resources to do it, but my point is that I, and many like me, DO monetarily support the game, despite being Lifers.

[Nevyn55]

You're right, I wasn't accounting for someone using legendary traceries vs. uncommon rarity traceries, I was assuming like-for-like.

And your actual damage % (if any after re-forging) loss would also have to take into account how much your base dps increased when going from level 95 to level 120. Yes, your buff %'s changed but so did your base damage.

[Belechael]

I know it is too late to have significant changes to the new LI system, however, I would like to write down what my hopes were/are.

I have characters at all levels, from 20 up to 130, and soon I will do most of the content again with a new brawler character.

When I log after 30.3 with a level cap character I would like to have exactly what was promised: A convert button that will let me trade my existing items with adequate traceries, scripts and runes to have at least the same power level items than before. After that I expect to have drops or rewards that will let me replace my existing traceries with better ones (new regular/rare traceries) or barter better ones (scripts) or improve my existing ones (runes). All these while LEVELING to reach the new level cap. When I do reach the new level cap, which lets face it, for some of us it is a matter of a couple days, I expect to have the chance to get the same things only better (incomparable/legendary traceries), have access (through rep, higher tier instances) and barter for better ones and improve them with better runes that I will get with the aforementioned ways.

If this happens then my level cap characters will be perfectly fine to continue questing and instancing.

Now, for my new brawler I expect the same at logical intervals or at the end of questing from each area, with the additional rewards from level appropriate instance loot. This will without doubt be very difficult to accomplish in time for the new expansion and I expect a lot of bugs and fixes, but it is ok, as long as you provide with alternatives: rep rewards, skirmish rewards, instance rewards and questing rewards. I would absolutely love some crafting rewards as well, but from what I can see this ship has sailed…

If all these happen, even with bugs and delays to fixes, I will be a happy brawler.

The question is: How close are all these to what we will get come 30.3?

[Joedangod]

And your actual damage % (if any after re-forging) loss would also have to take into account how much your base dps increased when going from level 95 to level 120. Yes, your buff %'s changed but so did your base damage.

True, but then the actual jumps people will be doing are from 95-96, there's no base damage boost doing that, you just straight up get weaker by levelling.

[Hephburz-2]

Now it's like the whole weapon is full of relic slots that you stack a massive amount of SoE's on, but only certain SoE's at certain thresholds, and eventually everything is going to expire and you get to restack new SoE's on new relics. It really strips away everything inherently unique and consistent about our LI's and turns it into another system we'll re-grind with every level increase, which frankly I don't know if I have to energy to do that for one character's weapons, let alone all 15.

I mean, the premise of the Legendary Item system is a weapon that grows with you as you use it. Now the only thing that will grow is the dps when you reforge it. Everything else is accessories you have to find or buy. I understand the need to monetize the game, but this is adding toll booths to a road that's already been built when we were promised a light rail a half-decade ago.

Wonderfully accurate depiction of this upcoming farce.

[Harvain]

I know it is too late to have significant changes to the new LI system, however, I would like to write down what my hopes were/are.

I have characters at all levels, from 20 up to 130, and soon I will do most of the content again with a new brawler character.

When I log after 30.3 with a level cap character I would like to have exactly what was promised: A convert button that will let me trade my existing items with adequate traceries, scripts and runes to have at least the same power level items than before. After that I expect to have drops or rewards that will let me replace my existing traceries with better ones (new regular/rare traceries) or barter better ones (scripts) or improve my existing ones (runes). All these while LEVELING to reach the new level cap. When I do reach the new level cap, which lets face it, for some of us it is a matter of a couple days, I expect to have the chance to get the same things only better (incomparable/legendary traceries), have access (through rep, higher tier instances) and barter for better ones and improve them with better runes that I will get with the aforementioned ways.

If this happens then my level cap characters will be perfectly fine to continue questing and instancing.

Now, for my new brawler I expect the same at logical intervals or at the end of questing from each area, with the additional rewards from level appropriate instance loot. This will without doubt be very difficult to accomplish in time for the new expansion and I expect a lot of bugs and fixes, but it is ok, as long as you provide with alternatives: rep rewards, skirmish rewards, instance rewards and questing rewards. I would absolutely love some crafting rewards as well, but from what I can see this ship has sailed…

If all these happen, even with bugs and delays to fixes, I will be a happy brawler.

The question is: How close are all these to what we will get come 30.3?

Update 30.3 is ahead of Update 31: Fate of Gundabad Expansion.

So for the part of "leveling to reach the new level cap" won't be for X amount of Days/Weeks after Update 30.3 comes out.

Until we get Update 30.3 out and being played in the Level 130 Cap for a time ahead of the New Level Cap will most things be answered for how the Fate of Gundabad Expansion will operate in terms of Traceries in the Level 131 to 140 Range.

[LadySelene]

This morning I logged in to BR and found the Ancient Script cost of everything went up another 50% (to 450 on purple and 900 on teal). This means to get a single LI to purple is 5000+ Ancient Scripts (11-12 x 450 AS(s)). Double that for teal assuming you can even get them under T3. Right now running a MM daily T1 you get a single purple from the last boss chest that disenchants for 40 AS(s). So that is 130+ instance runs per LI to PURPLE. Not at all sure what to run for lower level ranges. Unless there are huge sources yet unknown this is a far worse grind than before and while you keep your "base" LI your traceries have to be re-bought what 4-6 times from 50-130+. And the % bonuses are the same each replacement.

The hints from the 131-150 traceries is that we will see a 2.3x higher stat bloat with the next expansion as the mastery given by the base traceries are about that much higher than the 121-130 traceries. So, anyone for stat cap of 1.5million?

I just logged out, deleted BR, and went for a walk. I will wait until release to find out how screwed (or not) I am.

Hope I got all this wrong due to my mistakes.

450 for barter?
(sigh)
The DPS bump on reforge is definitely a huge step in the right direction, but that... I feel we're going to get used to run our leveling characters with heavily nerfed skill boosts. I'm definitely not going to waste precious currency on anything temporary.

There has to be some means to get at least basic skill traceries other than farming some capped nonsense, otherwise the only ones who do it will be either level-locked progression kins (or Treebeard), or cap level raiding community, starting from T1. Who else ever looks at gear while leveling? You get a quest reward better than current, you put it on and destroy the old one. It's no point doing mid-level grind, if it's meant to be thrown away in a few levels.

PS.
Probably the best way is to wait and watch the outcry from the playerbase (and get an Update 30.3.x to apply some patch), and play someone below 100, they won't lose anything crucial from LI conversion

PS2.
Raninia haven't answered my concern (though the question was asked), what will happen if we convert a LI for a character ~20 levels away from cap. Would it be converted to anything that can be used on a cap-level LI, or should we first get our level above 120?

[Starkorm]

I miss the original LI system.

[hoibideptrai]

I dreaded at the numbers on RK's fire DOT. Why are they so slow? Is it a bug or a nerf?

[ConsistentRager]

I miss the original LI system.

I miss normal weapons ffs.

[Braer]

True, but then the actual jumps people will be doing are from 95-96, there's no base damage boost doing that, you just straight up get weaker by levelling.

A concept that's lost on the DDO management we have. Why else all the xpac boost items and experience tomes? D&D was all about getting stronger with level. Lotro it's only gearing and stat increases. Then missions - with tons of exp gains and mote gain far behind the curve... stone up like the gold farmers do, they know what they are doing [From acc sup forum].

[Nevyn55]

Due to income limitations, buying the Ultimate package in one go is prohibitively priced. My plan is to buy the standard prior to the 10/13 release date and then upgrade to the next higher on the 15th (payday), followed by another upgrade to the Ultimate around the end of the month. All purchases would be prior to the Expansion release date of 11/10. My question is: according to the fine print, by only having the Standard edition purchased on 10/13, I only receive the Brawler class with few upgrades. Would I receive the 130 Valar on the 15th when I purchase the first upgrade or am I just SoL? I can read what the fine print says, but is that its intent or should I try to "conjure" up another $40 bucks prior to the 13th?
Also, I have an unused 120 Valar sitting in my Shared Vault. When used, if done after the updates, would that still only take me to 120 or would it be raised to this new 130 Valar?

[Belechael]

Update 30.3 is ahead of Update 31: Fate of Gundabad Expansion.

So for the part of "leveling to reach the new level cap" won't be for X amount of Days/Weeks after Update 30.3 comes out.

Until we get Update 30.3 out and being played in the Level 130 Cap for a time ahead of the New Level Cap will most things be answered for how the Fate of Gundabad Expansion will operate in terms of Traceries in the Level 131 to 140 Range.

Oh, I know, but I don't play level cap characters until Gundabad launches. Nothing new for them anymore.

I will just exchange my existing items for all characters and play a brawler.

There will be plenty of time to get scripts and runes with the new content, cba to run another of the old instances just for currency...