Helm's Deep tested with the result: very bad

[Mar-Evayave]

I'm joking,....I guess I need more smiley emoticons.

RIFT and WOW,..I'd place above those two anyhow,..but is that saying much?

It always surprises me that whenever I log into some past games,..like Rift, TSW,..and DCUO,...I still see a good population. And it saddens me too,..that all these people used to be on one game,..but now there are so many that we are all spread too thin,...but alas,...

Oh I knew you were joking, but I wasn't sure if you genuinely believed that I was some SWTOR/NWO fan or not. I didn't mind NWO too much, but I really don't like SWTOR, and don't want to be flagged as a supporter of theirs. xD

I agree, Rift and WoW would be higher on my list as well, but neither of them seem to be doing all that great. I took it with a grain of salt when I read that thread recently that had estimated log-ins for various games. Since Turbine has stated they do not share that information, then I can only conclude that the chart is very poorly put together. Nevertheless, it did surprise me that those "guesses" pegged SWTOR as being higher than LOTRO. That game has been barely above the waterline since the day it launched. At least LOTRO has had a good number of solid years to build a dedicated player-base.

Rift did indeed have a lot of people, at least on whatever server I was on. I honestly didn't care for it too much. At first I was drawn to the rifts like a kid in a candy shop, but eventually they became a nuisance, getting in the way of my other objectives. I only just got into the second region before I quit.

LOTRO is the only game that I always come back to, and I think that says a lot, for me personally, and I wasn't even here at the beginning (though I sure wish I was). Do I miss my early days? I sure do. Even I can see that not all the changes have been for the best. But then I guess it just reminds me of something Frodo said. He saved the Shire, but not for himself. He couldn't just go back to the way things were. He'd seen too much, experienced too much. In a lot of ways, that reflects my time here on LOTRO. We've come a long way, and there is longer still to go, but the nostalgia that many of us share is just that -- nostalgia.

[Beschutzer]

But then I guess it just reminds me of something Frodo said. He saved the Shire, but not for himself. He couldn't just go back to the way things were. He'd seen too much, experienced too much. In a lot of ways, that reflects my time here on LOTRO. We've come a long way, and there is longer still to go, but the nostalgia that many of us share is just that -- nostalgia.

That's an awesome quote,..I had forgotten it. And I'd wager it is behind so many posts here. It's bittersweet, actually.

[Whatevaplz]

I been playing RIFT (started last year) and only thing I do in LOTRO nowadays is open my Hobbit Weekly sometimes I even forget to log in... Personally I should have waited for reviews to come out before getting HD. In my opinion BBs are mindnumbingly boring including the landscape quest lines, don't get me started with the mobs you encounter. The only thing that was actually pleasurable is watching the cinematics with the Epic Quest lines and how the story unfold.

Don't see how I can repeat Big Battles for a whole year whilst Turbine don't have any plans for actual raid... what is the point of grabbing gear? Guess to try PvP when it has a different path and macro spamming gameplay. Maybe for some folks re-rolling seems like the only option but not for me, I just keep opening my weeklies, I seem to enjoy that the most then log back playing RIFT.

[English]

Very intelligent posts folks. I been with the game since Beta and been taking a break since the summer and before HD's release. Kind of waiting to get back in when things improve, as not to burnout on LOTRO. I now do wonder at times however, if this is really it?

[Feraxks]

Very intelligent posts folks. I been with the game since Beta and been taking a break since the summer and before HD's release. Kind of waiting to get back in when things improve, as not to burnout on LOTRO. I now do wonder at times however, if this is really it?

I can't answer your question for you, no one but you really can. I suspect that if you were a serious raider or PvPer, you'll be disappointed. If you were more of a casual player, you'll probably still enjoy the game. I will say that if peruse the negative threads, you'll notice that its the same core of people posting in each thread.

[Beaniemooch]

Good point. I guess what you might be saying is that you dislike the linear progression through content these days, what with having no choices in which route you take? I could totally understand that, and heartily approve of something along this line. I will note, however, that HD is an expansion. Can Turbine really be expected to produce several different expansions at the same time for the same level range, just so that players can have a choice in what route they take? It seems the only feasible way to implement this sort of choice would be to have multiple quest packs cover the same range, the way Lorien/Mirkwood and Enedwaith did. That's basically what we had in Eriador. Places like the Lone Lands or North Downs that covered much the same levels, or Forochel, Angmar, and the Misties. We had more choices back then. But on the flip side, a lot of people complain about over-leveling content because they want to do all of it. If non-linear progression is such a big hit, why are games like SWTOR and Neverwinter still in the top end of MMOs (at least they both are from what I understand). They have extremely linear progression -- literally no choice whatsoever. You go from A to B to C when the game tells you to.

I am not a huge fan of the linear questing, but I definitely resent linear questing that is pick up slop after lazy NPC #29, fetch item on table next to lazy NPC #32 and get 44K XP for the 5 feet you moved. If I have to quest in a linear fashion at least make it a quest and not kitchen scullery. I understand better when it's go kill 10 orcs and recover the thingy so-and-so had stolen when they were killed, take it back and go out to revenge or explore the situation. Picking up, cleaning up and fetching isn't questing.

[Mar-Evayave]

That's an awesome quote,..I had forgotten it. And I'd wager it is behind so many posts here. It's bittersweet, actually.

Bittersweet is the best definition. I actually almost never watch the LOTR movies because of how sad the ending is.

I am not a huge fan of the linear questing, but I definitely resent linear questing that is pick up slop after lazy NPC #29, fetch item on table next to lazy NPC #32 and get 44K XP for the 5 feet you moved. If I have to quest in a linear fashion at least make it a quest and not kitchen scullery. I understand better when it's go kill 10 orcs and recover the thingy so-and-so had stolen when they were killed, take it back and go out to revenge or explore the situation. Picking up, cleaning up and fetching isn't questing.

Something I always like to say is everything in moderation, or in small amounts. For example, I felt the whole Isengard prisoner sequence to be excellently made. Being forced to clean up slop and run errands made it seem all the more authentic. I do agree about the average questing though. Not enough real stuff to do. Even the other quests (kill 10 things and come back) get on my nerves. I hate being sent back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. For goodness sake, NPC, tell me everything you want me to do and let me go! It's one reason I like the remotely bestowed quests so much; now I don't have to leave the quest area just to run back and get more quests from some NPC.

[Frisco]

"Turbine has not only accomplished the feat to stage the Battle of Helm's Deep as undemanding click ####"

Love the translation! Maybe someday HD will go on sale for a TP price and I'll get to see the "undemanding click ####" for myself!

[yafga]

Also true, but as XP disablers are costly, a lot of people don't want to take them. Just the other day I saw a thread here that complained about the free trial VIP (the one that lasts 14 days and was a limited time offer). They complained because of the rest XP. Unless I misunderstand how they work and that rest XP overrides XP disablers, there does seem to be a fair amount of people who refuse to buy them and continue to complain about how fast they over-level content.

I also doubt it is very feasible to have a non-linear quest progression in expansions. Regular quest packs, sure, but not expansions. Unless of course Turbine releases more than one expansion all at the same time, but that seems like a waste of resources. And, sad as it is, they have enough problems getting one expansion out, much less multiple ones. And why have any single expansion have multiple different paths to take? Would that even be possible?



Hm... I don't claim they are. I despise SWTOR (surprised that game hasn't died yet), and while Neverwinter had a combat system that intrigued me, I didn't much care for that game either. I'm just saying that in general terms, they are seemingly still relatively popular. And that's based on observation alone. Those two games, as well as Rift and WoW, have been the most talked about MMOs (MMOs that have been out at least a few years) in my experience, aside from LOTRO of course. Obviously EQN/EQNL and ESO are talked about a lot and both may join the so-called "top ranks". But still...

You know that Swtor has raids and alot of dungeons at max level? They also have good pvp, spacebattle pvp,warzones and arena. The quests and story in swtor are perfect and far more superior compared to lotro. Trust me, when you name lotro in any other mmo they laugh. This game has become very bugy and a very linear experience. In swtor there is still a challange when leveling up, there are group quests in the world and there is more to do than just facerolling quests while leveling up. Im more supprised that lotro is still alive accually. Swtor has high populated servers atm, and is doing well. The game lost its subscribers early because there were no end-game. But that is fixed now.

[Mar-Evayave]

You know that Swtor has raids and alot of dungeons at max level? They also have good pvp, spacebattle pvp,warzones and arena. The quests and story in swtor are perfect and far more superior compared to lotro. Trust me, when you name lotro in any other mmo they laugh. This game has become very bugy and a very linear experience. In swtor there is still a challange when leveling up, there are group quests in the world and there is more to do than just facerolling quests while leveling up. Im more supprised that lotro is still alive accually. Swtor has high populated servers atm, and is doing well. The game lost its subscribers early because there were no end-game. But that is fixed now.

I doubt I'll have much success as you seem to be a SWTOR fan, but still...

SWTOR's raids, PvP, spacebattles, and all that sort of thing are all benefits of VIP. Non-VIPers get extremely limited access to these on a weekly basis, or must pay to unlock them on a temporary basis. In LOTRO, the only thing of this sort that is locked is PvMP, and even that can be unlocked creepside on a permanent basis per creep race.

The story and quests in SWTOR are far from perfect or superior. They are often just as buggy. SWTOR has nothing but a linear experience. There are no options. LOTRO has a lot of options, particularly in the early areas. Almost every step of the way up to the release of RoI players were given options.

And to be completely frank - I don't believe you at all. Do you want to know why? Because I have mentioned LOTRO and they do not laugh. What's more, aside from a few SWTOR die-hard fans, SWTOR is the biggest laugh on the market. The fact that a game can almost die right after its launch is proof enough of that. It wasn't because there wasn't any end-game -- it was because the game just flat out sucked. If that game hadn't gone F2P, it would have died, mostly because a vast majority of its early subscribers dropped it like a dead rat. In its development they made SWTOR seem so awesome and everyone was extremely hyped up about it. And then it released and the majority realized how wrong that advertizing had been and how really horrible the game was. The fact that they've continued to loosen the reins and give F2Pers more content (more characters per server, for example)) is proof that the game still struggles. It is walking a very fine line and I wouldn't be at all surprised if it dies, even now.

As for server population, that is really odd, because I've seen threads on SWTOR's forums that talk about the servers having low populations.

Quick Edit: Also, one thing about SWTOR and particularly EA, is how every little they care about their players. I played before F2P and I played after, as a VIP. When the xpac released, I purchased it right away. As did many other players. And then what did EA do? They turned right around and made the expansion free to VIPers. Did I, as a VIPer, get any sort of refund? No. And if they'd planned on doing that the entire time, then it was falsely advertized. The VIPers who didn't buy the expansion (for whatever reason, be it inability to pay or unwillingness to pay) ended up getting it for free, while the (initially) loyal VIPers did pay and got nothing for their troubles.

[Whatevaplz]

"Turbine has not only accomplished the feat to stage the Battle of Helm's Deep as undemanding click ####"

Love the translation! Maybe someday HD will go on sale for a TP price and I'll get to see the "undemanding click ####" for myself!

I can sum up the experience I had from HD if you wish.

Here is a sunflower, you plant it on the ground where you want to fire it at against the horde of zombies. Then you click on them.

Siege Engine > Horde of Creature advancing then boom click win!

Oh wait you just don't click at a siege engine, you even get to click on guess what... on... ladders... *MIND BLOWN* you didn't expect that huh? How about that eh? Are you thrilled enough for that EPIC HD adventure? I'm sure that will convince you to buy Plant vs.Zombies I meant LOTRO... Sorry Plant VS. Zombies is free.

[Karimi]

I agree and share most of the opinions expressed on the review.


The article makes mention of landscape quest content, basically the ridiculous premise that ours by this point more than overpowered characters are reduced to running errands, cleaning dishes and being treated like dirt all the time. I find that a painfully accurate description of the questing experience in West Rohan. If anything, seriously taking into account landscape content should LOWER the rating.

Question... If Aragorn were asked to do those menial tasks, would he do them? Of course not. But when asked, you do. Therefore, you are clearly not Aragorn. No one is making you wash dishes. If a quest is beneath your character, then don't do it.

Point... "Overpowered". By what measure? Do you think that, in the lore, Frodo could go back and singlehandedly kill the Watcher or one-shot a Shire bear just because he made a trip to Mordor? Of course not. What you are observing is a standard MMORPG game mechanic called "leveling" which is used to help guide your journey in an order that closely matches that of the fellowship. Do not confuse that story-telling mechanic with your character beooming so powerful that washing dishes is beneath him.

[Beaniemooch]

Question... If Aragorn were asked to do those menial tasks, would he do them? Of course not. But when asked, you do. Therefore, you are clearly not Aragorn. No one is making you wash dishes. If a quest is beneath your character, then don't do it.

Point... "Overpowered". By what measure? Do you think that, in the lore, Frodo could go back and singlehandedly kill the Watcher or one-shot a Shire bear just because he made a trip to Mordor? Of course not. What you are observing is a standard MMORPG game mechanic called "leveling" which is used to help guide your journey in an order that closely matches that of the fellowship. Do not confuse that story-telling mechanic with your character beooming so powerful that washing dishes is beneath him.

Aragorn wouldn't have to wash dishes - if we want to finish a quest line to move on, we DO have to. There used to be the ability to skip quests but no longer. You're stuck til you do, or you're punished by not getting your trait point, not getting your epic book finished, and basically dead in the water. Were questing not linear I could skip it. Questing has changed to linear, so I can't.

Overpowered is when as a minstrel I can run around 95 areas and one-shot 15k mobs. And I've been one-shotting on-level mobs since the class changes. I'm not the only class - they pretty much all can.

[Karimi]

Aragorn wouldn't have to wash dishes - if we want to finish a quest line to move on, we DO have to.

That's my point. You want to finish a quest line, so you feel compelled to do it. Is your Fishing hobby maxed out? If not, then why not?

There used to be the ability to skip quests but no longer. You're stuck til you do, or you're punished by not getting your trait point, not getting your epic book finished, and basically dead in the water. Were questing not linear I could skip it. Questing has changed to linear, so I can't.

Then don't get your trait point? After all, you finish your post about how you are one-shotting on-level mobs everywhere in the game, so it's not like you need it.

The problem is that you want to be a completionist but you also want every task you do in the game to be something heroic. You can't have it both ways. If every task is heroic, then heroism becomes mundane.

Overpowered is when as a minstrel I can run around 95 areas and one-shot 15k mobs. And I've been one-shotting on-level mobs since the class changes. I'm not the only class - they pretty much all can.

Go watch LOTR or the hobbit movies and count how many orcs required more than one "shot" to kill. It won't be many.

[Beaniemooch]

That's my point. You want to finish a quest line, so you feel compelled to do it. Is your Fishing hobby maxed out? If not, then why not?



Then don't get your trait point? After all, you finish your post about how you are one-shotting on-level mobs everywhere in the game, so it's not like you need it.

The problem is that you want to be a completionist but you also want every task you do in the game to be something heroic. You can't have it both ways. If every task is heroic, then heroism becomes mundane.



Go watch LOTR or the hobbit movies and count how many orcs required more than one "shot" to kill. It won't be many.

1. My fishing hobby isn't maxed because I despise fishing. There is also no need to fish.

2. I need the trait points because the trees are miserable enough with full points. Having less than full points makes them worse. If I don't finish the quests in the areas I lose 5 points.

3. I don't want/need to be a completionist so I'm not - there are plenty of old deeds I didn't do because I didn't need to. There are plenty of areas I didn't quest because I didn't need to. In order to get reputation with the areas and complete the Epic lines for things I actually need in the game I have to do the linear quests.

Every task doesn't have to be heroic - but it shouldn't be insulting. Not only that but it seems a large number are dishes and cleaning and fetching for NPCs that in real life I'd look at and say "do it yourself". Turbine seems to have run out of creativity because the content they've turned out lately is boring and mostly a rehash of older areas including the look of the housing and instances.

[bobbylobs]

Go watch LOTR or the hobbit movies and count how many orcs required more than one "shot" to kill. It won't be many.

Lotro isnt based on the films is based on the books, and in the books middle earth was a damn dangerous place to be, just ask Boromir, Theoden, Horn, Halbarad etc etc.

Fact is we should fear death (or defeat) just as the fellowship and the other people of middle earth feared it, right now you really have to try hard to die in the game, would the books be anywhere near as enthralling if Aragorn popped his shield brother during the battle of the hornburg and stood in the middle of all those orcs getting 3k heals from every single hit and never have to do a single thing to survive? or Elrond decided to sit down and eat a sandwich whilst he had his pet go and take down a party of orcs?

How about Gimli jumping on his warsteed and hitting his horn skill or sundering blow and getting a devastate crit for +60k and one shotting half the pellenor fields?

The gaming experience as it stands now, is far from the experience I imagined myself having all those times I read and continue to read the books.

[Laurefinde]

Bump above the spam...

[Andryl]

Go watch LOTR or the hobbit movies and count how many orcs required more than one "shot" to kill. It won't be many.

Sure, but in the same way:
Haldir was 2-shotted....
Boromir was killed by a bunch of arrows.....
Saruman (in the books,i don't remember the movie) was killed by a single backstab of Grima....

So, if you use this example, also our characters should be one-shotted by any mob...

Sorry, I've stopped playing lotro on a regular basis and started FF XIV: even there, there is more challenge.
I'll return here when - and if - things will change a bit, when there will be a purpose to gear up.

[HoldumDown]

Sorry, I've stopped playing lotro on a regular basis and started FF XIV: even there, there is more challenge.
I'll return here when - and if - things will change a bit, when there will be a purpose to gear up.

Well now you've blown it. We can easily write you off as a malcontent and dismiss your opinion. Sorry about that =D

[Neumi]

I saw how big the grind for the HD instances was and how they all didn't give me the feeling to be part of it, so I didn't bother anymore.

Gee, I even started playing WoW recently which turned out to be a lot more fun than Lotro currently is (and not just because you hardly feel lag at all). I hate the setting, crafting is for stupids, traveling is #### and the graphics are ... well ... WoW style. And still it is more fun ... and more brutal, there is a lot of blood in it
I sure hoppe Lotro will come back at it's former glory at some point. I already lost my favorite MMO because the servers were shut down, I would hate to lose this as well because I get all too bored.

[Gandolf_TheOld]

Gamestar not exactly the good group of game testers. Gamestar, but form your own opinion

[Polymachos]

Gamestar is part of a group of three influential German (PC) game magazines, the others being PC Games and Computer Bild Spiele (the latter is by far the biggest one). There are many players (especially the young ones at which this magazine is directed) who read these 'tests' and judge the games by their descriptions.

Remember that many games have grand openings - this is because the developers are well aware that the reporters don't have much time to test a game, so the first impression will be the most influential. Turbine tried to be impressive by creating these so-called Big Battles, and allow even level 10 characters to join them. Well - guess what the journalist did first after reaching level ten. No, he didn't run around Hobbiton, carrying yet another pie; he battled.

Note that in this video, he said for several times that he is concentrating on the *new* content which he found to be lackluster and boring, and excluded the old content that might be still ok for him. Which means, he knows the game already (maybe even well), and had liked it as it was in former times. He is actually disappointed about the direction the game took.

As this magazine tends to be enthusiastic about games which are even barely (or not yet) out, any criticism will have an even worse effect. Sorry, but Turbine's attempt at going big failed. Maybe they should revert back to their old strength, creating a great landscape and intricate dungeons, instead of (non) large scale battles and cheesy intrigue.


Greetings, Polymachos

[Karimi]

Sure, but in the same way:
Haldir was 2-shotted....
Boromir was killed by a bunch of arrows.....
Saruman (in the books,i don't remember the movie) was killed by a single backstab of Grima....

So, if you use this example, also our characters should be one-shotted by any mob...

Your definition of "one-shot" is kind of weird.

Boromir fought off an army of orcs before finally being taken down. Haldir was the same way. Neither of them was "one shot". Both of those things can still happen in this game when players get overwhelmed by mobs.

In the movies, Saruman was stabbed in the back, but FELL from Orthanc to his death. This also can still happen in the game.

[Vhivi]

In the movies, Saruman was stabbed in the back, but FELL from Orthanc to his death. This also can still happen in the game.

I'm sure you and many others know this, but because the movie deviated so far from the book it is not the best source when talking about the story. In the book Saruman was stabbed by Grima after he was discovered by the hobbits upon their return to the Shire. He had lived in Bag End and was the mastermind of the Scouring of the Shire (a chapter foolishly left out by Jackson). Fell from Orthanc to his death. You know? That is as stupid as it sounds. Thanks a lot, Jackson. You completely missed the point of Saruman's fall from grace.