Change the Lootsystem for landscape

[Torinik]

Boo to OP, the old loot system suxed so hard. If you played the first year then you know the pain of having to camp a mob to get a crafting drop just to have a botted hunter steal the tag.

[Oelle]

Boo to OP, the old loot system suxed so hard. If you played the first year then you know the pain of having to camp a mob to get a crafting drop just to have a botted hunter steal the tag.

true, but there are no longer mobs that drop something that you need so hard

[watevaplz]

How about gold in every game?

Plus: there i no 'need' in games. Nowhere. So no needing some items doesnt change anything about gold being currency to trade.
Its about wanting something, no one needs anything in a game.

And you cant change in your cup to dollars if no one wants to buy it. Thats the same for bitcoins. However, you CAN trade with bitcoins just like with any other currency. If the other person likes to trade with bitcoins. Which is the same problem for every currency. I cant go to america and buy stuff with my euros.

Ok what is the item you actually need in game, that you can't produce yourself. So we can get a Consumer base product off you.

Just because my cup says I'm the best doesn't meant it will sell for one bit coin. Yes you are correct i can trade something in exchange for bitcoins if someone wants to buy it. But bitcoins in general is backed up with actual money/ currency. That is why when I type bitcoins exchange I can see a $ per 1 bit coin.

[watevaplz]

No, they aren't, in any way, shape, or form. Bitcoins are valuable because (some) people say they are and are willing to accept them in exchange for goods and services. If all other currencies worldwide disappeared and all we had were bitcoins, they would still be valuable. Thank you again for putting your total lack of understanding on display.

Oh right because it has a general backing.

Can you point me to a different website that suggest what you said is relatively true? Gizmodo website, Investopedia website say otherwise. I want insight on someone who is not pretending to be in a committee. Even when i typed in google it clearly says the government currency in question x to y bitcoins.

[Hurin]

This. This is why we can't have nice things.

[watevaplz]

That's why I am taking care not to use the word "inflation" which is indicative of an increase in the cost of goods whose value is measured over time. In lotro, so many non-BOA items that were very valuable during SOA (e.g. Rune of Winged Dominance, or the best stones that the DOF bosses dropped) are either no longer valued currency or just don't exist that we can't use historic data to track a typical sale price of said item on a consistent basis. Instead I use the word devalue to reflect the massively increased supply of gold from NPC sources.

So, when we look back at SOA and consider what an Exquisite Radiant Cloak used to cost (between 6 and 11g and which relied on the input of a valuable recipe, a beryl shard and a crit) to the price of a teal Ithilien Essence (140 gold, which needed just 4 lots of 4 daily quests that take 20 mins tops) then that's enough indication that more gold is in circulation in the game than was before many of the "convenience" changes in the game.

Of course the irony is that whilst we talk about the lack of gold faucets in lotro, Turbine did indeed provide an excellent one - by driving away so many players, all their gold and goods is now trapped in unplayed character bank vaults. I dread to think what would happen if all of that was added to general circulation.

You can look however when you get to 1-50 since there is no need to buy items. I remember in SOA I had 48g when i reached level 50, doing quest, occasional hunting beryls. But we are also looking at a good timeline of 10 years with lots of "blunder" related to gold. Pretty sure those blunders tend to point at store related items *cough*. 1-105 doesn't have any gold required items.. maybe a horse, goat and inventory space?

"This general circulation" is a big question mark. In game everyone can get what they want or need so the basis of gold (currency) being circulated like a normal economy is highly unlikely. Just like the photo I shown you with one of my accounts. Like I've said before the last stuff I bought are pets (large shrews x 6).

The obvious reason of prices going up are level base and rewards. Not "inflation" or money that is out there. if you look at the general prices of items is pretty constant. 2012 15g for Sturdy keys... now it is 25-30g?

[watevaplz]

That's why I don't use the word "inflation". The supply of money has massively increased over the years and that is a given - players can obtain more money through normal gameplay than they ever could with greater convenience. Players have more gold than they would have done and that means more money is deployed when desirable goods are made available via the AH or direct trade.

There's no point going over this as it's indisputable. The real question is what can be done about it.

Yes it is true that there is a big discrepancy between rich folks in terms of new items being introduced in game. Unlimited resources means faster items acquisition.

The best way to combat this is. BOA just like what they did with barter items rep wise or what they intended to do with it. What happens to the gold? Maybe gold dumps in exchange for hobbit presents? like a slot-machine where house more likely always wins... But then again this will create another "oh multiboxers getting more gold to gamble in the casino" post. "Oh players who logged in longer than I am getting more gold to gamble in the casino". There will be no end of it.

[Gyes]

But then again this will create another "oh multiboxers getting more gold to gamble in the casino" post. "Oh players who logged in longer than I am getting more gold to gamble in the casino". There will be no end of it.

What really boggles the mind is that you've managed to convince yourself that multiboxing is no different than playing the game longer. Do you honestly think you're working hard to get all that gold and loot while you sleep, defecate, and watch Netflix? Do you not see the difference between working hard for something and exploiting?

Of course not - you can't see that you're exploiting. You've admitted you're using a system in a way for which it was not intended. You've admitted you're doing it for personal benefit. You've admitted it would be horrible if everyone else acted like you do. And yet, you've managed to rationalize away your own greed by choosing not to connect the dots. Like I said, you'd make a fascinating research subject.

[watevaplz]

What really boggles the mind is that you've managed to convince yourself that multiboxing is no different than playing the game longer. Do you honestly think you're working hard to get all that gold and loot while you sleep, defecate, and watch Netflix? Do you not see the difference between working hard for something and exploiting?

Of course not - you can't see that you're exploiting. You've admitted you're using a system in a way for which it was not intended. You've admitted you're doing it for personal benefit. You've admitted it would be horrible if everyone else acted like you do. And yet, you've managed to rationalize away your own greed by choosing not to connect the dots. Like I said, you'd make a fascinating research subject.

Because me in front of a computer screen can't watch netflix at the same time. Is that your base argument? how hard is it to kill landscape mobs? Is this one of your 36x? If i press ` to hit a mob, kill said mob with auto kills so I can defecate or watch netflix is that a bad?

Because it is not. A system base on your ideal standards. Yeah why would they allow multiboxing if I can't benefit from it... durrr What, when did I say that? I even encouraged players to multibox so Hurin guy gets that 50% SSG's resources. Rationale my own greed base on your jealousy and ill contempt? Sure put me in that pretentious research committee "with a thesis"?

[Hurin]

See what I mean?

[Hurin]

A mathematical fluke which you presented as evidence LOL 1 x 6 x 6 (speed of kills) where my champion can kill faster. Yeah totally irrefutable mathematical formula.

Just in case anyone is still unclear about what arguing in bad faith looks like. . . see the above.

Note how we've repeatedly heard about how a Champ can kill as fast as six or twelve Lore-masters. But, what does that leave out? Well, let's see:

• The Champ can't kill passively while our friend here admittedly watches Netflix or sleeps.
• The Champ won't receive six/twelve times the loot per kill like those six/twelve LMs.

. . . so the argument that LMs passively killing in groups so that a single player receives 6x/12x loot per kill (approaching .75 gold piece per landscape Orc) while killing much faster than a solo LM isn't exploitative because a single Champ can kill just as fast is just utter freakin' nonsense. It willfully misses the point and seeks to distract via misdirection.

You can't have a productive argument/discussions with someone who routinely argues in bad faith. In other words, he knows (or should know) it's a bad argument. But he makes it anyways.

Also. . . "mathematical fluke". . . my new favorite term.

--H

[watevaplz]

Just in case anyone is still unclear about what arguing in bad faith looks like. . . see the above.

Note how we've repeatedly heard about how a Champ can kill as fast as six or twelve Lore-masters. But, what does that leave out? Well, let's see:

• The Champ can't kill passively while our friend here admittedly watches Netflix or sleeps.
• The Champ won't receive six/twelve times the loot per kill like those six/twelve LMs.

. . . so the argument that LMs passively killing in groups so that a single player receives 6x/12x loot per kill (approaching .75 gold piece per landscape Orc) while killing much faster than a solo LM isn't exploitative because a single Champ can kill just as fast is just utter freakin' nonsense. It willfully misses the point and seeks to distract via misdirection.

You can't have a productive argument/discussions with someone who routinely argues in bad faith. In other words, he knows (or should know) it's a bad argument. But he makes it anyways.

Also. . . "mathematical fluke". . . my new favorite term.

--H

- Watching Netflix while infront of the PC. They can't really tell what the other players are doing and make them stick their nose to the monitor and just play LOTR now or could they?
- Hey if turbine/ssg holds me in violation with their rules because I fell asleep fine they can kick me out of the game.
- Finally you are learning simple math not 36x but 6x probability. You should tell that to your friends.

Obviously you missed out the part where Gyes didn't mentioned any of this just "combat multiboxing". Makes me think you just want to revive a failed argument for the sake of arguing. Talking about bad faith.

Now I will post something related to this subject about multiboxing: From Sapience.

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...ht=multiboxing

Here you can tell, how they police it: Like i've said GM ask for a response... etc

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...lowed-in-LoTRO in regards with botting.

I know you will not be satisfied with it, if you suggest that anyone should not be doing anything else while they logged on LOTR like watching Netflix, doing taxes, lifting weights then yeah go make your own game and set your standards there.

[Oelle]

not getting caught is different from doing the right things.
Just see it like some well-known philosoph: If everyone did what you do, would the world look better or worse?

It doesn't matter, if SSG counts what you do as exploit or not. All that matter is, that they see that what happens is not what was intended when they made their changes and that it affects the game in a bad way. When they realize that the current situation is bad, they might think about changing it. And its obviously bad. Thats all this thread is about. Its not about witchhunting multiboxers nor about witchhunting afk-farmers nor about witchhunting farmraids although all of those hurt the games economy. Thats just not the topic here. There are always players that use every opportunity they find and it doesn't matter if they get called opportunists or exploiters. The game should be fair to all players and if not to all, then to their biggest majority. If it should be unfair then towards those with malicious behaviour, not towards those that play as intended. The thread is about showing that its unfair and changing whats bad, not about fighting with bad people.

[watevaplz]

not getting caught is different from doing the right things.
Just see it like some well-known philosoph: If everyone did what you do, would the world look better or worse?

It doesn't matter, if SSG counts what you do as exploit or not. All that matter is, that they see that what happens is not what was intended when they made their changes and that it affects the game in a bad way. When they realize that the current situation is bad, they might think about changing it. And its obviously bad. Thats all this thread is about. Its not about witchhunting multiboxers nor about witchhunting afk-farmers nor about witchhunting farmraids although all of those hurt the games economy. Thats just not the topic here. There are always players that use every opportunity they find and it doesn't matter if they get called opportunists or exploiters. The game should be fair to all players and if not to all, then to their biggest majority. If it should be unfair then towards those with malicious behaviour, not towards those that play as intended. The thread is about showing that its unfair and changing whats bad, not about fighting with bad people.

They clearly don't. The make belief inflation, lag and "36x" loot is something they really need to look into, if it is such a "bad" thing. Hurting the "economy" amazing you guys are still in this stance. Can you please tell me an item that you can't afford now because inflation is bad and you can't get it but really need it.

Lol Opportunity more like relaxing.... if I really want opportunity or gold I would grab my champion and pull the whole camp and kill them all. The game is fair making up outrageous claims like cause of "lag", cause of "inflation", cause of "moral / game integrity, 36x or any other multiplier that doesn't makes sense is what makes it unfair. Multiboxing is playing as intended.

[Hurin]

- Watching Netflix while infront of the PC. They can't really tell what the other players are doing and make them stick their nose to the monitor and just play LOTR now or could they?
- Hey if turbine/ssg holds me in violation with their rules because I fell asleep fine they can kick me out of the game.
- Finally you are learning simple math not 36x but 6x probability. You should tell that to your friends.

Obviously you missed out the part where Gyes didn't mentioned any of this just "combat multiboxing". Makes me think you just want to revive a failed argument for the sake of arguing. Talking about bad faith.

Ummmm. . . let's all note how you change the subject entirely. None of that is relevant to my pointing out the bad faith of your "My champ kills faster than a group of LMs" argument.

As usual, you reply. But you reply with irrelevant nonsense. In order to just give the impression that you're holding your own in the argument.

Now I will post something related to this subject about multiboxing: From Sapience.

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...ht=multiboxing

Here you can tell, how they police it: Like i've said GM ask for a response... etc

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...lowed-in-LoTRO in regards with botting.

I know you will not be satisfied with it, if you suggest that anyone should not be doing anything else while they logged on LOTR like watching Netflix, doing taxes, lifting weights then yeah go make your own game and set your standards there.

And let's all note that only the first links has anything said by Sapience and the second one merely contains discussion by players no more authoritative than the one taking place here. And all Sapience said in the first link that is relevant to this discussion is: "Multi-boxing in-and-of-itself is not inherently bad or against our TOS."

Which, of course, does not support your case at all. In fact, it buttresses my (and others') claim that there are good/legitimate and bad/illegitimate uses for multiboxing. And they could very easily decide, overnight, with no changes to the EULA, to begin disciplining you for how you admittedly abuse multiboxing.

--H

[Hurin]

Lol Opportunity more like relaxing.... if I really want opportunity or gold I would grab my champion and pull the whole camp and kill them all.

Which, of course, would net you 1/6 of how much gold you get by pulling the camp with your LMs. But of course, you know that. You have to be doing this (obtusely making bad arguments) on purpose at this point.

I leave you to your other playmates. Enjoy your game. The one you "play" while sleeping.

[Gyes]

Multiboxing is playing as intended.

Which is why there are features built into the game to allow you to log in multiple accounts and control them without needing to alt-tab or run 3rd party software. It's why the devs allow you to log in all of your account's characters at once. It's why the devs have repeatedly said they are in favor of combat multiboxing. Yup, all of those things.

Also notice that the embarrassing nonsense about economics has dried up right around the point where your absurd misunderstands led to their undeniable conclusion. Convenient, that.

I've said this on several occasions, but it's worth repeating once more. Your arguments are in shambles. You've made yourself look completely ridiculous. Just cut your losses, stop posting, and go back to cheating. It's not likely the devs are ever going to clean up their game, no matter how painfully obvious it is that you and your ilk are ruining it. Take solace in that fact. And if they do ever wake up, you'll still have all that gold and loot. Heck, you can probably keep on exploiting even if they decide to actually police you. That's how it worked in Asheron's Call. The devs banned unattended combat macroing and large swaths of the population still did it - for well over a decade! They found remote locations where it wasn't likely they'd be reported. They created a mindset among the majority of the playerbase that snitching on them was uncool. And if they did happen to get caught on occasion, they waited out their bans and went right back to work. The rewards were just too great for a couple days' ban to slow them down. You'd be in basically the same position.

[watevaplz]

Which is why there are features built into the game to allow you to log in multiple accounts and control them without needing to alt-tab or run 3rd party software. It's why the devs allow you to log in all of your account's characters at once. It's why the devs have repeatedly said they are in favor of combat multiboxing. Yup, all of those things.

Also notice that the embarrassing nonsense about economics has dried up right around the point where your absurd misunderstands led to their undeniable conclusion. Convenient, that.

I've said this on several occasions, but it's worth repeating once more. Your arguments are in shambles. You've made yourself look completely ridiculous. Just cut your losses, stop posting, and go back to cheating. It's not likely the devs are ever going to clean up their game, no matter how painfully obvious it is that you and your ilk are ruining it. Take solace in that fact. And if they do ever wake up, you'll still have all that gold and loot. Heck, you can probably keep on exploiting even if they decide to actually police you. That's how it worked in Asheron's Call. The devs banned unattended combat macroing and large swaths of the population still did it - for well over a decade! They found remote locations where it wasn't likely they'd be reported. They created a mindset among the majority of the playerbase that snitching on them was uncool. And if they did happen to get caught on occasion, they waited out their bans and went right back to work. The rewards were just too great for a couple days' ban to slow them down. You'd be in basically the same position.

So basically you made up more things, now pointing that I use a 3rd party program? Did you even read the post with Sapience in it? Do you even know how to use a computer? Everything is easy now you don't need to type in cmd line what you need to do. Point and click.

Is that the reason why you can't point me to an item that was affected by this inflation you been talking about for the last 7th post. Yeah definitely a bad "economist". Just say it "exists" because you got an committee and a thesis

So clearly i'm not in that line, I don't macro or use 3rd party program.

Your list:
- 36x
- Inflation
- In game economy same as real life economy
- Combat Mulltiboxing
- Now 3rd party program

You should take your advice and quit. Then keep crying about someone "speeding" as an "exploit" and him being too "obfuscate". Funny.

[watevaplz]

Which, of course, would net you 1/6 of how much gold you get by pulling the camp with your LMs. But of course, you know that. You have to be doing this (obtusely making bad arguments) on purpose at this point.

I leave you to your other playmates. Enjoy your game. The one you "play" while sleeping.

I don't know if you know how to play but if I wanted gold i won't be farming in landscape lol. I won't be posting too much either since basically if I'm in game, it is unattended gameplay according to your standards. I'm certain however if you are just posting activity you be crying about other players getting ahead of you since well.... you can't play and post at the same time right according to you?

Yeah definitely going to watch Netflix while I'm playing LOTR, take a poop at times or do some work. The worst awkward part of this discussion is that you are part of the group that replied to Sapience about the 20 questions which one pointing out that multiboxing is ok.
https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...ht=multiboxing and you never said anything regarding it.... and now still claim it is "cheating". What happen selective hearing suddenly pops in? Or is this the part where you see unicorns, pegasus and multiboxers causing lag and taking up 50% of SSG's resources? Being old sounds fun, I can't wait.

[watevaplz]

And let's all note that only the first links has anything said by Sapience and the second one merely contains discussion by players no more authoritative than the one taking place here. And all Sapience said in the first link that is relevant to this discussion is: "Multi-boxing in-and-of-itself is not inherently bad or against our TOS."

Which, of course, does not support your case at all. In fact, it buttresses my (and others') claim that there are good/legitimate and bad/illegitimate uses for multiboxing. And they could very easily decide, overnight, with no changes to the EULA, to begin disciplining you for how you admittedly abuse multiboxing.

--H

The second post was regarding about botters. Pretty sure we already straighten that out. In fact it is clear on the steps on how they spot them. Responding to GM tells is not botting/macroing.

Because you said that watching Netflix while logged in is bad? Well that is where you just make new rules to conform with your own standards.

[Hurin]

I don't know if you know how to play but if I wanted gold i won't be farming in landscape lol. I won't be posting too much either since basically if I'm in game, it is unattended gameplay according to your standards. I'm certain however if you are just posting activity you be crying about other players getting ahead of you since well.... you can't play and post at the same time right according to you?

Sure you can post while you play. You just shouldn't have six LMs' pets farming stuff for you while you sleep, or are otherwise not playing the game. You know this of course. More intellectual dishonesty from you. It's all you have left.

Yeah definitely going to watch Netflix while I'm playing LOTR, take a poop at times or do some work. The worst awkward part of this discussion is that you are part of the group that replied to Sapience about the 20 questions which one pointing out that multiboxing is ok.
https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...ht=multiboxing and you never said anything regarding it.... and now still claim it is "cheating". What happen selective hearing suddenly pops in? Or is this the part where you see unicorns, pegasus and multiboxers causing lag and taking up 50% of SSG's resources? Being old sounds fun, I can't wait.

Heh, it's "worst awkward" that Sapience said that multiboxing itself isn't the problem, but how people abuse it. Why would I "say something" about that? I agree with it. Oh, I get it, you are still finding it necessary to pretend that I want to ban multiboxing outright. Or you are pretending that Sapience said something other than what he said?

Man, look what you've been reduced to. . . finding a quote from Sapience where he says: "We view it as a question of hammers. Is a hammer a bad thing? Nope. Can a hammer be used to do bad things? Yes. Does this mean banning hammers? No. Does this mean investigating ways to make people who do bad things with hammers wish they hadn't? Yes.". . . and pretending that it backs you up when in fact it's the very thing we've been telling you. . . multiboxing is being abused by you (admittedly) and others. . . and they could very well crack down on you for it.

I look forward to you randomly inserting some bizarre statement about "hammers" in every other one of your posts from now on.

--H

[watevaplz]

Sure you can post while you play. You just shouldn't have six LMs' pets farming stuff for you while you sleep, or are otherwise not playing the game. You know this of course. More intellectual dishonesty from you. It's all you have left.


Heh, it's "worst awkward" that Sapience said that multiboxing itself isn't the problem, but how people abuse it. Why would I "say something" about that? I agree with it. Oh, I get it, you are still finding it necessary to pretend that I want to ban multiboxing outright. Or you are pretending that Sapience said something other than what he said?

Man, look what you've been reduced to. . . finding a quote from Sapience where he says: "We view it as a question of hammers. Is a hammer a bad thing? Nope. Can a hammer be used to do bad things? Yes. Does this mean banning hammers? No. Does this mean investigating ways to make people who do bad things with hammers wish they hadn't? Yes.". . . and pretending that it backs you up when in fact it's the very thing we've been telling you. . . multiboxing is being abused by you (admittedly) and others. . . and they could very well crack down on you for it.

I look forward to you randomly inserting some bizarre statement about "hammers" in every other one of your posts from now on.

--H

Lol the reply was from a rank farmer related incident that was multiboxed intensively. So that is where the analogy came from. Even the concept of the question tells exactly the intent of the subject "multiboxing/rank farmers"

I know it is hard to follow things get with me here. Just go a tad faster.

[Hurin]

The second post was regarding about botters. Pretty sure we already straighten that out. In fact it is clear on the steps on how they spot them. Responding to GM tells is not botting/macroing.

Because you said that watching Netflix while logged in is bad? Well that is where you just make new rules to conform with your own standards.

Yes. We know. You "play" the game unattended but stay close enough to make it appear that you are not doing so when a GM checks on you. As I said, it's akin to burglarizing houses and considering it legal so long as you don't trip the burglar alarms.

You circumvent the detection mechanisms and then willfully confuse that for approval by those trying to catch you.

The fundamental problem here is that you want to cheat/exploit/abuse multiboxing/LM Pets/Loot Sytems and yet won't accept the nature of what you're doing. Everyone wants to think well of themselves. You just want to cheat/exploit/abuse and continue to do so. Which. . . is just sorta getting sad now.

--H

[Hurin]

Lol the reply was from a rank farmer related incident that was multiboxed intensively. So that is where the analogy came from. Even the concept of the question tells exactly the intent of the subject "multiboxing/rank farmers"

I know it is hard to follow things get with me here. Just go a tad faster.

Keep telling yourself that. He was asked about rank farming. Note that in all replies, he mentioned multiboxing more generally.

Or has it not occurred to you that they stay relatively silent on this topic for a reason? Because they want to retain the flexibility to either continue allowing it, or bring down the hammer on you?

[Hurin]

Anyways, thanks for helping me test out my new mechanical keyboard. Carry on exploiting/abusing the game's systems. Sleep, watch Netflix, whatever while your six game clients scoop up resources completely without you. Enjoy the sextupled loot/items that you are not earning in any way. . . and then, of course, tell us how it's all by design.

This is why we can't have nice things.

--H