Developer Diary Feedback: The Reputation System

[Saffron]

Make friends and influence factions with LOTRO's new Reputation system! Jessie “Vastin” King explains how in the latest developer diary about LOTRO's second free content update - Book 10: The City of the Kings!

Read Vastin's Dev Diary, then post your comments below!

[Jimbaker]

In the dev diary, he states that group players/raiders will most likely pass most of the Rep grinding. However, I see items like the repair anvil in the list of items available with a friendly rep. Are some of these crafted items only available through reputation grinding? If so, thats going to be a real pain. I hate grinding more than anything.

[Schildawg73]

Does anyone have a list of the factions, and the number of trophies needed for each from the test server?

[ewatson]

Can the developers confirm that all of the items from Raiding are avaliable from the reputation system (at least items with the same stats) and vise versa? If that is the case then I think that adding this is a really good addition. So what if a new uber raid item is added....as long as it is avaliable through reputation as well.

This would basically eliminate much of the raider/non-raider issues that can exist in these games. Just make sure that the reputation grind is balanced and it will work fine.

[swisskdl]

Here's what makes me sad. Apparantly this system is designed for me because I'm the guy who logs on for a half hour before dinner, I'm the guy who can't commit to a group because I never know when the wife will need me, or the dog will get into something he shouldn't. I've been level 32 for about a month now because I really want to do GA but I've never been able to find the time where I can play non stop for 2 hours.

What makes me sad is that the people who get to group up and do the big group quests get to go on amazing adventures and slay dragons and do all these other really cool and fun things, while game systems designed for my playstyle has to apparently be kill 1,000 mobs to get 250 trophy's.

/yawn.

There are better ways to give the login for 30 minutes and logout players something to do while advanceing our characters. I've pretty much made the Ettens my home now because I can do that there. I don't have to commit to anything, I can do the little quests or kill freeps for as long as I want and then log out.

The rep system could have been similar to how the ettens functions. A living dynamic system where it's always changing but you can come and go whenever you want.

For instance:
Dwarf Rep: A mine is under attack by goblins. This mine would be a public dungeon and it would be dynamic where one side pushes then the other side pushes and things go back and forth. Push to certain places and you gain more Rep, protect certain places or NPC's and you gain Rep. Kill goblins and you gain Rep. Help mine in the mine and you gain Rep. Save a captured dwarf miner and you gain Rep. Collect trophy's in the mine and gain Rep.

The goblins would keep coming 24 hours so no matter when you login you can go in the mine to help out and gain Rep. But things can be different everytime you go in and you can have an impact when you are in there.

Still a grind, but more fun than simply killing 1000 mobs. Have something fun like this for each faction.


I guess I'm just bitter because I'm all grinded out already in this game. The more grinds you add, the less and less I'll play my alts. Grinding something once is boring enough, doing it all over again on alts is like needles in the eye ball.


I wish you guys would have thought more outside the box on the Rep system. Just because I'm a solo player that can't play for long periods of time does not mean content for me has to be 'slow and steady'. The Ettens is great fun and you don't have to play for a long time to have that fun. Why couldn't the Rep system be great fun? The dev diary pretty much points out that it was designed to be a boring grind solo players without a lot of time can do to get stuff on par with the RAIDers.

Thinking outside the box there could have been something fun and exciting for solo players without a lot of time to do. Make it take a long time like your current Rep Grind, just make it fun and exciting. If I want something relaxing to do and work on for my half hour before dinner, I'll just work on my deed grind or my crafting grind, or my legendary book grind. Why add in another boring slow grind? We don't need more slow boring grinds for us solo players without a lot of time, we need something fun and exciting to do every once in awhile.

Sorry, I'm not happy with this addition. I thought a PvE centric game would have better PvE systems.

I don't mean to be so critical and such a downer, I guess I'll just stick to the Ettens.

[Beowulfe]

Can't wait to try it out. I am one that is about 50-50 solo/group play, but I am also one who's goals include getting every deed in the game...just because I can...so, for me, grinds aren't a big deal.

He brought up an excellent point, in my view, in that running around working on a deed (or reputation) is something you can do when you "only have 20 minutes". I often log on when I'm working at home during lunch just to do that. I got trolls to kill in the North Downs, and 20 minutes to kill? No problem, kill some time, grind a trait or rep. It's nice to know that this is going to have some better rewards associated with it now.

Hopefully the system works out as well as they are advertising

[Martuk]

Make friends and influence factions with LOTRO's new Reputation system! Jessie “Vastin” King explains how in the latest developer diary about LOTRO's second free content update - Book 10: The City of the Kings!

Read Vastin's Dev Diary, then post your comments below!

I am actually glad to see this system. I like questing, but sometimes it feels like all I do. This system will make a nice change to something else for a while. I'm looking foreword to it.

[Kravendao]

When I came to Lotro I thought, wow, a game without a mindless grind, this is great, I can get to end game, have fun, pvp some, raid some when I seldom have time, and not spend 50 hours killing dwarves for banners to get some semi-useful recipe or a new mount.

Thanks for correcting that! About couple DOZEN people in my kin left wow because of this. It's a great way to follow in blizzard's footsteps, props to the devs!

Btw guys, if you want a better mount, be prepared to grind -ALOT- you're either grinding Rep, or an assinine amount of PvMP reknown, either way, welcome back to the grind or continuing to be one-shotted off your horse.

At least the dev's decided not to make it required for certain instances... yet, not including the rep store locations.

[Alakranus]

We're already grinding for deeds and traits so adding rep to the mix isn't all that bad. Besides, its not like you're forced to do it...if its not your thing don't do it. I saw a little bit of the Sarnur instance in Ered Luin for rep with the dwarves and it looked like a cool place so I'm looking forward to it.

[NimTheRat]

For instance:
Dwarf Rep: A mine is under attack by goblins. This mine would be a public dungeon and it would be dynamic where one side pushes then the other side pushes and things go back and forth. Push to certain places and you gain more Rep, protect certain places or NPC's and you gain Rep. Kill goblins and you gain Rep. Help mine in the mine and you gain Rep. Save a captured dwarf miner and you gain Rep. Collect trophy's in the mine and gain Rep.

My understanding is that Sarnur, a new public instance in Ered Luin that is connected to rep gains with the Thorin's Hall faction, works a lot like this. 'Conquerable' objectives, like the Ettenmoors, with waves of mobs trying to retake them. Haven't seen it myself, but that was how someone described it on the Roheryn (preview server) forum.

[swisskdl]

My understanding is that Sarnur, a new public instance in Ered Luin that is connected to rep gains with the Thorin's Hall faction, works a lot like this. 'Conquerable' objectives, like the Ettenmoors, with waves of mobs trying to retake them. Haven't seen it myself, but that was how someone described it on the Roheryn (preview server) forum.

I hope your right

I wonder though, why is the dev diary written like it is just a simple MOB grind added to the game for solo'ers to get good gear?

Why not mention it is in cool instances that work like what you and I kinda described?

[Sojourner]

I hope your right

I wonder though, why is the dev diary written like it is just a simple MOB grind added to the game for solo'ers to get good gear?

Why not mention it is in cool instances that work like what you and I kinda described?

Swiss, maybe they are saving it for another Dev Dairy. After all, conquerable positions have been in the game since launch, but only in PvMP. For pure PvEers it's going to be something novel.

[Dwarflord]

My understanding is that Sarnur, a new public instance in Ered Luin that is connected to rep gains with the Thorin's Hall faction, works a lot like this. 'Conquerable' objectives, like the Ettenmoors, with waves of mobs trying to retake them. Haven't seen it myself, but that was how someone described it on the Roheryn (preview server) forum.

Haven't seen that in Sarnur yet, but that's in Annumenas. You or the "invaders" control parts of the city, it looks awsome (but might have to require a very good group or a raid to accomplish since there's elites and elite masters in the capturable areas...

[DerinSnowboot]

Just wanted to say what a great Dev diary! It hasn't been mentioned yet, so I am not sure if others missed it or just didn't like it, but I loved the "choose-your-own-adventure" part of the diary.

Not only did it bring back some warm and fuzzy feelings of the past (I loved those books!), but it was a great insight into the dev process. Thanks for that!

On the rep system, it sounds great to me. I don't mind grinding in small doeses and it sounds like the rep system supports that. All in all, I am happy with the whole thing.

[L_Loomis]

Thank you for taking the time to explain this!

My wife and I love to duo. It's sad for us that due to our growing family and responsibilities that we can not participate in the end-game group experiences - our schedule is too hectic for the regularity guilds require, and we are interrupted too often when we do get to play by the many important responsibilities we must tend to.

It has always in other games meant that we are only able to experience the surface of the game, and simple early rewards.

Yet this type of faction that will enable us to work towards rewards together, is wonderful. It is so kind of Turbine to take us into account, when we so often are not.

Our gratitude to you!!

~The Loomis Family

[olloksilverhair]

I think this will be a nice addition to the game for me. Something to do when I get tired or am unable to group. and another way to enjoy the world you have created. I'm glad to see that you are still adding to and improving the content of the game, even if it is a "work in progress".

[Merciful_Death]

I like this mostly in that it is optional.
All other opinions I will have must wait for some actual hands-on time.

BTW, is this Jesse King the same Jesse King who was a notable person in Ravenholt some years back? If not, the coincidences are boggling.

[Gandlin]

Hi everyone. I have been playing the game since the Alpha phase, and I can't tell you how happy I am with the Lotro experience. We all really appreciate the hard work. Now my question.

Say for example that you have completed all the quests in Bree-land or the Shire or Ered Luin on a Hobbit Burglar. Does this mean that you will automatically recieve the reputation bonuses once the update goes live, or will you be required to do more quests or deeds to gain the loyalty of a particular faction?

Sorry if this issue has already been anwsered I would have looked, but I work 60 hours a week and don't have much free time when I am not on Lotro.

Take care.

[Lord_Flashard]

Hi everyone. I have been playing the game since the Alpha phase, and I can't tell you how happy I am with the Lotro experience. We all really appreciate the hard work. Now my question.

Say for example that you have completed all the quests in Bree-land or the Shire or Ered Luin on a Hobbit Burglar. Does this mean that you will automatically recieve the reputation bonuses once the update goes live, or will you be required to do more quests or deeds to gain the loyalty of a particular faction?

Sorry if this issue has already been anwsered I would have looked, but I work 60 hours a week and don't have much free time when I am not on Lotro.

Take care.

Sorry mate. You'll have to go back an do some more work in the area's you've finished. You need to collect tokens from dead guys to gain rep. There are also crafting items you can do for curtin factions. Each faction has a profession that they like.

[Vastin]

Say for example that you have completed all the quests in Bree-land or the Shire or Ered Luin on a Hobbit Burglar. Does this mean that you will automatically recieve the reputation bonuses once the update goes live, or will you be required to do more quests or deeds to gain the loyalty of a particular faction?

For the initial pass on the Reputation system, the old quests won't be giving rep - only the new ones we are currently writing.

As we keep moving forward however, we would like to retrofit the older quests to give rep as well, but that exact issue you raise ('Do I get rep for quests I've already completed'), is the sticker. The time required to actually update all those quests is an issue too, but its not the main problem.

Once we have a technical solution we're happy with for retroactively adding rep for these previously completed quests we'll be looking at going back and updating them to give rep (where appropriate) - if retroactive rewards turn out to be too complex, we'll likely go back and update them anyway so that new players and your future alts can benefit from them.

In any case, there are unlimited rep 'sources' for all the existing reps, so even if it turns out that we can't retroactively reward rep for old quests, it should always be possible to 'max out' your rep with a given faction.

[Vastin]

Can the developers confirm that all of the items from Raiding are avaliable from the reputation system (at least items with the same stats) and vise versa? If that is the case then I think that adding this is a really good addition. So what if a new uber raid item is added....as long as it is avaliable through reputation as well.

This would basically eliminate much of the raider/non-raider issues that can exist in these games. Just make sure that the reputation grind is balanced and it will work fine.

We don't currently plan to duplicate the raid item lists via reputation, but hopefully we will be able to offer reasonably equivalent rewards. For example, as we develop more refined methods for creating and statting loot, we'll want that loot to effectively support the playstyle of the player who is getting it. Ex: Reputation gear would tend to be balanced to support a more solo or small-group playstyle for example, while raid gear should tend to be specialized for role fulfilment in a larger group. They might be statistically equivalent overall, but the way those stats are assigned might vary quite a bit.

And just for the record, IMO the division between raiders/non-raiders goes down to a fundamental disagreement in playstyle and approach that no amount of loot is ever likely to rectify. We're just lucky as developers to be working with a style of game that can actually encompass both at once, and a few others besides.

[Alakranus]

I don't think I would want rep rewards to be the same stuff that is dropping in raids.....some variety is always nice so everyone in the world isn't running around wearing the same armor and using the same weapons.

[Teldra]

We don't currently plan to duplicate the raid item lists via reputation, but hopefully we will be able to offer reasonably equivalent rewards. For example, as we develop more refined methods for creating and statting loot, we'll want that loot to effectively support the playstyle of the player who is getting it. Ex: Reputation gear would tend to be balanced to support a more solo or small-group playstyle for example, while raid gear should tend to be specialized for role fulfilment in a larger group. They might be statistically equivalent overall, but the way those stats are assigned might vary quite a bit.

And just for the record, IMO the division between raiders/non-raiders goes down to a fundamental disagreement in playstyle and approach that no amount of loot is ever likely to rectify. We're just lucky as developers to be working with a style of game that can actually encompass both at once, and a few others besides.

A far simpler question: can you get your lvl 50 trait by reputation? As it stands now, I have to go to Carn Dum to get 3 items (a fourth from Ugarath) and then do a quest chain to get my lvl 50 hunter trait. Keep the gear, give the trait somehow.

Teldra

[djheydt]

I'm unclear on a couple of things.

Who are the "factions"? Are they the different races, Elves, Men, and so on?

Why do they have to be factions? Why do they have to be pitted against each other? Aren't we all united against the same Enemy?

Can one garner positive reputation with all the races, and negative reputation with none?

And what, if anything, do we gain by gaining reputation? Anything? Vastin's diary was NOT clear.

[daadkey]

We don't currently plan to duplicate the raid item lists via reputation, but hopefully we will be able to offer reasonably equivalent rewards. For example, as we develop more refined methods for creating and statting loot, we'll want that loot to effectively support the playstyle of the player who is getting it. Ex: Reputation gear would tend to be balanced to support a more solo or small-group playstyle for example, while raid gear should tend to be specialized for role fulfilment in a larger group. They might be statistically equivalent overall, but the way those stats are assigned might vary quite a bit.

And just for the record, IMO the division between raiders/non-raiders goes down to a fundamental disagreement in playstyle and approach that no amount of loot is ever likely to rectify. We're just lucky as developers to be working with a style of game that can actually encompass both at once, and a few others besides.

As a survivor from several previous MMO's who neglected the solo'ers and shifted their focus to the noisy PvP'ers and Raiders, it is so refreshing to read about the thoughtful approach the Turbine team is taking towards satisfying the needs and wants of the quieter solo segment of the player base. Too many MMO's show little love towards this most frequently played playstyle and I am just thrilled your team is an exception to the norm.

Having played with the rep system on Roheryn, for the most part, I like it and look forward to playing through it with all of my characters. My only worry is that it could lead to exploitation by the dreaded gold farmers and other low scum but I trust Turbine will do everything possible to prevent this from happening.

Kudos to Turbine for this focus on the solo'ers. For your efforts, I hope you are rewarded with many happy long term subscribers.

-daad