Hidden Nuggets we see all the time...

[Drazulfel]

After visiting Bag End last night (again... even after a month in-game, it still thrills me for some reason), I have a couple of suggestions. There are a couple of things that I was looking for, but did not see. First, a large lamp with a red lamp shade in the dining room. Second, a map hanging in the hallway that is marked (in red) with Bilbo's favorite walking paths. And finally (although, this might be a bit too obscure since it would have happened 50+ years before the time period of the game), a fire poker and shovel knocked over near the fireplace. These things are all mentioned in chapter 1 of The Hobbit, so I can imagine new Tolkien readers (or those, like myself, who have been inspired by LotRO to re-read the books) heading up to The Hill to look for them.

This isn't in any way a knock against the fantastic attention to detail that already exists in the game. It's just a humble and respectful suggestion for even further improvement by a rabid fan. :-)

[Berephon]

After visiting Bag End last night (again... even after a month in-game, it still thrills me for some reason), I have a couple of suggestions. There are a couple of things that I was looking for, but did not see. First, a large lamp with a red lamp shade in the dining room. Second, a map hanging in the hallway that is marked (in red) with Bilbo's favorite walking paths. And finally (although, this might be a bit too obscure since it would have happened 50+ years before the time period of the game), a fire poker and shovel knocked over near the fireplace. These things are all mentioned in chapter 1 of The Hobbit, so I can imagine new Tolkien readers (or those, like myself, who have been inspired by LotRO to re-read the books) heading up to The Hill to look for them.

This isn't in any way a knock against the fantastic attention to detail that already exists in the game. It's just a humble and respectful suggestion for even further improvement by a rabid fan. :-)

The map would likely have been something Bilbo took with him, as for the other details, remember that this is upwards of 60 years after The Hobbit, and the Bagginses are no longer in residence. Not much was left for Lobelia to plunder.

[Silverlocket]

For my part, I remember trying to find the low place in the garden path and the low place in the hedge that both Bilbo and Frodo used. I don't think I ever found it before my attention wandered, though.

[andulinde]

For my part, I remember trying to find the low place in the garden path and the low place in the hedge that both Bilbo and Frodo used. I don't think I ever found it before my attention wandered, though.

Agreed. I wasn't able to find this either, Silver.

[Chrysoprase]

The map would likely have been something Bilbo took with him, as for the other details, remember that this is upwards of 60 years after The Hobbit, and the Bagginses are no longer in residence. Not much was left for Lobelia to plunder.

Even if Bilbo didn't take the map with him, Frodo definitely would havemoved it to Crickhollow. I don't think he would have left it behind for Lobelia or Lotho to desecrate.

[kyeo138]

To echo many other responses, there are so many nuggets in this game it's amazing. Great job by everyone involved!! It's a shame many of these tidbits will be missed by most players, but at least you know 1 more person appreciates all your hard work!

One piece I that sticks out was in Evendim, during the Humphrey Rumming riddle quest on the salamander island. It's not really hidden since it's part of a quest chain, but the riddle was something like 'Lesser get of Ancalagon's spawn Taloned claws and fang-gaped yawn. Scatha's tears would surely flow Saw he his children laid so low.'

Ancalagon was the biggest dragon in Middle Earth history, and Scatha was a salamander-like dragon (but don't tell him that) I had to actually look it up:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_%28Middle-earth%29

Great way to throw in some ancient lore!

Oh, and if you're taking suggestions, I'd LOVE to see some lands east of Mordor, where the Blue Wizards supposedly went. I hope you could get the license to use them, because not much is known about whether they failed and were corrupted or succeded. My personal theory is one stayed good and the other went saruman-like crazy. Maybe throw in some evil elves (Moriquendi aka Dark Elves)

PS - The shire is my favorite zone... No, wait, Evendim... no make that Breeland... I could go on

[Berephon]

Oh, and if you're taking suggestions, I'd LOVE to see some lands east of Mordor, where the Blue Wizards supposedly went. I hope you could get the license to use them, because not much is known about whether they failed and were corrupted or succeded. My personal theory is one stayed good and the other went saruman-like crazy. Maybe throw in some evil elves (Moriquendi aka Dark Elves)

The Moriquendi were not evil. They simply did not go into the West when summoned and never saw the light of the trees (hence, they are called Dark Elves.) Most of the Wood Elves of Mirkwood fall into this category.

[Halbourn]

"Deviating from the literature could damage the game's reputation with hardcore players who come to the game specifically for its Tolkienism."

This is a quote from the Business article featured on the home page.

I think this is the most important part of the game; the effort to adhere to the lore.

My question, how much deviation are you comfortable with before you start to complain?
My biggest fear is the use of 'magic' in the game. (The over abundance of shades being a close second) Those of us who understand the lore accept that only the wizards performed overt acts of magic which is contrasted to the natural abilities of the Elves or Hobbits. The lore-master class is too much like a wizard already (no skills without a staff, where does that wind come from?, no armor...) I am concerned the pressure to be like all the other 'fantasy' games will become too great and 'player-wizards' are on their way as a class.

Please tell me what you think.

[kyeo138]

Surely a bunch were corrupted Well maybe some... a few? a couple? one?

They wouldn't have to be inherently evil like Sauron either, but they could be hostile to outsiders. Kinda like the Dourhands, they're not really 'evil', they just have bad judgment in picking leaders

Of course if that area were even developed, it wouldn't be until after Mordor anway, so that's probably years and years down the road.

[Halbourn]

[QUOTE=kyeo138;1159703]Surely a bunch were corrupted Well maybe some... a few? a couple? one?

They wouldn't have to be inherently evil like Sauron either, but they could be hostile to outsiders. Kinda like the Dourhands, they're not really 'evil', they just have bad judgment in picking leaders

QUOTE]
There are only 5 wizards and one was corrupted.

Sauruman did fall and he turned evil; think about what happened after he died. There is not middle ground in Tolkien, you are either good or evil. The wizards are unique because of their origin and that needs to be protected to maintain the lore.

The three wizards that came from other writings seem to have written Middle-Earth off and they didn't like anyone all that much. Yet they failed in their task, only Gandalf succeeded because he remained faithful to defeating Sauron. They other wizards were not evil but they did not have the ability to train people or pass on their knowledge, so no they couldn't train 'little-wizards'. If lore-masters turn into D&D mages then we have a serious problem.

[Laire]

There are only 5 wizards and one was corrupted.

Sauruman did fall and he turned evil; think about what happened after he died. There is not middle ground in Tolkien, you are either good or evil. The wizards are unique because of their origin and that needs to be protected to maintain the lore.

The three wizards that came from other writings seem to have written Middle-Earth off and they didn't like anyone all that much. Yet they failed in their task, only Gandalf succeeded because he remained faithful to defeating Sauron. They other wizards were not evil but they did not have the ability to train people or pass on their knowledge, so no they couldn't train 'little-wizards'. If lore-masters turn into D&D mages then we have a serious problem.

I'm pretty sure Halbourn was referring to Berephon's Moriquendi statement.

While I understand the Lore-master class was added for gameplay reasons, I do like how they tend to use books to manipulate the world around them, in their animations. I'm a large lore geek myself, but they have never really bothered me.

As for the Blue Wizards, I'm pretty sure that they cannot mention their name or color. Gandalf in LOTR does mention that there are five, two who went to the east. However, only in Unfinished Tales does it mention their names and their colors. So I doubt that we will see a *direct* reference to Alatar and Pallando. We may see a reference to two wizards, but I doubt we will see their names since Turbine does not have the license for UT.

[Locklear93]

The Moriquendi were not evil. They simply did not go into the West when summoned and never saw the light of the trees (hence, they are called Dark Elves.) Most of the Wood Elves of Mirkwood fall into this category.

Yeah. To the best of my knowledge (still reading through the Silmarillion), the only evil "elves" are the ones captured by Melkor (Morgoth), and corrupted over time, becoming the first orcs. Melkor stole some away when they wandered too far from safety, and at first, the elves feared Oromë, believing he was the one kidnapping them. No elf who was still an ELF was truly evil, as far as I know.

[Berephon]

Yeah. To the best of my knowledge (still reading through the Silmarillion), the only evil "elves" are the ones captured by Melkor (Morgoth), and corrupted over time, becoming the first orcs. Melkor stole some away when they wandered too far from safety, and at first, the elves feared Oromë, believing he was the one kidnapping them. No elf who was still an ELF was truly evil, as far as I know.

Indeed. Also, having read some of the Professor's other essays, it also appears that the first Orcs were *not* Elves, but rather Maiar-like fell spirits, such as Balrogs, etc., from whom it might be the Black Uruks of Mordor (and by extension the Uruk-hai) are descended (explaining their relative uberness). There are also Orcs that were corrupted from Men.

[Silverlocket]

I know it's just me, but every time I read the name "Pallando," I hear in the background voices chanting, "So sayeth the wise Alaundo."

It's kind of sad, really.

SL

[Locklear93]

Indeed. Also, having read some of the Professor's other essays, it also appears that the first Orcs were *not* Elves, but rather Maiar-like fell spirits, such as Balrogs, etc., from whom it might be the Black Uruks of Mordor (and by extension the Uruk-hai) are descended (explaining their relative uberness). There are also Orcs that were corrupted from Men.

I'm aware of other Maia-level spirits which were corrupt, creating Balrogs, but I wasn't aware of any becoming orcs of any sort. I'm not challenging your statement, but I'd like a reference, if you know which essay--there's so very much material to read that I might not find it for months of dedicated reading, if I don't know where to look! In any case, I don't think the Silmarillion mentions any orcs before those created from elves, and those were created before the Followers (Men) came about.

[Berephon]

I'm aware of other Maia-level spirits which were corrupt, creating Balrogs, but I wasn't aware of any becoming orcs of any sort. I'm not challenging your statement, but I'd like a reference, if you know which essay--there's so very much material to read that I might not find it for months of dedicated reading, if I don't know where to look! In any case, I don't think the Silmarillion mentions any orcs before those created from elves, and those were created before the Followers (Men) came about.

It's an essay on the Origin of Orcs in the Histories (I believe Vol XII). There are two or three essays on this subject in there. When I hit that one, I was like "Whoa, what the heck?" Of course, over time, they would have become less powerful, but still make for a tough opponent.

[Locklear93]

It's an essay on the Origin of Orcs in the Histories (I believe Vol XII). There are two or three essays on this subject in there. When I hit that one, I was like "Whoa, what the heck?" Of course, over time, they would have become less powerful, but still make for a tough opponent.

Ah, thanks. The Histories I don't have yet--I wanted to get them in the complete, limited edition format, but $300 on top of the $200 for LotRO... yeah, I'll just wrap up the stuff I can get for $10 a book, first.

And definitely, an orc derived from a fallen Maia would be an absolute terror.

[Rahvin]

It's an essay on the Origin of Orcs in the Histories (I believe Vol XII). There are two or three essays on this subject in there. When I hit that one, I was like "Whoa, what the heck?" Of course, over time, they would have become less powerful, but still make for a tough opponent.

I believe it was actually book X - the last few chapters. And although there was some conclusions concerning the origin of Orcs, there was still more confusion created because of them.

One thing that I remember and found fascinating was the origin of the work orc (ork). The elves originally called all Melkors evil creation orcs; this includes Orcs, trolls, and other such beasts. Through the ages, the name Orc ended up just sticking to what we typically call Orc.

[Berephon]

I believe it was actually book X - the last few chapters. And although there was some conclusions concerning the origin of Orcs, there was still more confusion created because of them.

Indeed, I couldn't remember exactly which volume...I spent so much time in X and XII, they've become blurred as to what's in each. (easily the best two volumes of the set.)

[Aringar]

It's already been mentioned that the Ronald Dwaling line of quests in Evendim refer to Tolkien lore like the lead dog, etc. While doing the quest chain one of the things he asks you to do is find the missing first page of his new book. Well just on a hunch I looked at the page in my inventory after finding it and right clicked it to use. The first line of Ronald's book is "In a Hole in the ground there lived a boar" Then in red he adds "No, no thats not right!" The first line in "The Hobbit" is "In a hole in the ground there lived a Hobbit." I took a screen shot of it but Havent uploaded it to a hosting site yet.

Finally uploaded the screen shot of that text.

[Schmidster]

I am not nearly as versed as so many of you, but something that really changed my perspective of the game based on lore facts was Tom Bombadil's house.
Most re-start areas are close to where you die but any where in the Barrow Downs always brings you back to his house.
My wife reminded me that he saved the hobbits from the wights.
Now I appreciate every clinging branch and I couldn't help but sit by the water fall and remember more of the books.
I have to read them again, it has been almost 20 years and as great as the movies are, I know they don't match alot of the book details.

[Caelven]

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[Berephon]

Ooh, I missed this when it was new...do I get a prize for being the first one on the forums to recognize Billina? It's lore, just not LotR lore...

Well, I mean would I get a prize if I wasn't the guy who posted all the fussy stuff? Could we give the prize to the nice Caelevin maybe? 'Cause the other one is my cat and I can't be at home all day to keep him off the net.

Caelevin

Lol, you beat me on that one! I wasn't aware that Billina actually existed. Shame on me for never reading the Oz series.

You win an imaginary invisible pipe! Pretend to smoke it well.

[Caelven]

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[Drazulfel]

In Gondamon, I just saw a dwarf wandering around commenting that some of the guards stationed there were in the Battle of Five Armies. Very cool!