Book 13 Dev Diary Feedback: The Orc Defiler

[Cembrye]

Score one for not revisiting the diary after balancing the skills.

Playtests proved that the skill at 10 seconds was too powerful. We changed the cool as a result.

Hi Orion -

Can we have an ETA on when the LM stun-immunity bug (LM with stun immunity on cannot be webbed) will be addressed? Thanks.

[TheScyphozoa]

I always thought an Aurochs skull would be a lot taller.

[cdnsteve]

I do not understand how anyone can believe Rezing in the Morres is balanced.

Freeps: 3 Rezers

Minstal Rez: 1 in-combat Rez (10 min cooldown), 1 out of combat Rez (Chain Cast)

Captain Rez: 1 in-combat (30 min cooldown)

Loremaster Rez: 1 out of combat Rez (chain Cast - requires material)


Creeps: 2 Rezers

Warleader: 1 in-combat Fellowship Rez (5 min cooldown)

Defiler: 1 out of combat Rez (cooldown unknown - requires Defilers Morale and Power)


Not sure if any traits or Deeds effect freep rez's, except for the Captains Deed that increases targets Morale to full and give more power to target when rezed. While the WL's Group Rez is a strong skill we're still looking at 3 Freep Rezers to 2 Creep rezers. Of which 2 of the Freep Rezers can Chain Rez out of combat and it doesn't cost them Morale. The Loremasters Rez requires material but I doubt it's too costly (please confirm).

I still don't see a balance. If you are going to give the defiler a morale cost for rezing it should be available in-combat and maybe additionally give him an out of combat Rez requiring Material.

This is a joke right? Lore-masters rez has a 3m range - must be out of combat and you need material to be able to do it. When the target comes back up he has 50 morale and no power..... So basically I can rez you long as your way back from the fight.

WL's have a 3 minute cooldown AOE rez, not a 5 minute.

The real issue here is that there are virtually no minstrels - captains in the moors, at least on Firefoot. Finding 1 mins for a raid is usually tough. We often run around with no healers. Where as there are always lots of WL's running about, now there will be even more healing power with defilers.

Yes a few classes can rez, but you've forgetten the numbers - I dare to say there are less than half the amount of minstrels than there are WL's on firefoot. Now it will be even worse with defilers - rank 2 WLs get the bubble and defilers have a lot of HoT power. I believe that creeps win this one.

[Solien]

Ive never known a freep who doesn't run from a fair fight.

Ridiculous generalizations FTL. You can always tell the hardcore creeps because they just love that 'us vs them' mindset.

[RootedOak]

That looks pretty fun, an interesting class that will shake up the moors.

Now get to work making a goblin warg-rider

Seriously, we need a goblin class. And warg-riders would be so awesome.

I say wait until the Rohan expansion. Then we can beg for mounted battles. lol. Seriously though, goblins play very small roles in the stories, and they're obviously weak little fellas compared to orcs and the Uruks. Maybe if Turbine makes it to Gondor we can have a cool battleground there somehow. Probably have to change the appearances of all the creeps so fit that section of middle-earth's lore, but we can be hopeful for the future lol .

[a99barnsey]

I say wait until the Rohan expansion. Then we can beg for mounted battles. lol. Seriously though, goblins play very small roles in the stories, and they're obviously weak little fellas compared to orcs and the Uruks. Maybe if Turbine makes it to Gondor we can have a cool battleground there somehow. Probably have to change the appearances of all the creeps so fit that section of middle-earth's lore, but we can be hopeful for the future lol .

I'd say goblins were featured as much as wargs and definitely more than spiders (not counting Shelob).

Anyway I'm kind of skeptical about mounted combat in general, and the way I was thinking about doing a warg rider wouldn't really be like doing true mounted combat. It would just be like a warg except that it would have a more complex model (animated goblin on its back) and would trade stealth for some ranged attacks and other abilities. I guess the difference is that you wouldn't be able to dismount.

Also the next expansion could very well be Mirkwood/Lonly Mntn, so it could easily be over 2 years before rohan comes out.

[protox4]

This is a joke right? Lore-masters rez has a 3m range - must be out of combat and you need material to be able to do it. When the target comes back up he has 50 morale and no power..... So basically I can rez you long as your way back from the fight.

WL's have a 3 minute cooldown AOE rez, not a 5 minute.

The real issue here is that there are virtually no minstrels - captains in the moors, at least on Firefoot. Finding 1 mins for a raid is usually tough. We often run around with no healers. Where as there are always lots of WL's running about, now there will be even more healing power with defilers.

Yes a few classes can rez, but you've forgetten the numbers - I dare to say there are less than half the amount of minstrels than there are WL's on firefoot. Now it will be even worse with defilers - rank 2 WLs get the bubble and defilers have a lot of HoT power. I believe that creeps win this one.

Um, no. WL rez is 5 minute CD to begin with. Upgraded, it's a 4 minute CD. As for the LM rez, sure they rez with 50 morale and no power, but you can boost their morale pretty fast and get their power full almost instantly.

I play on 2 servers: Firefoot as a freep, Nimrodel as a creep. On Firefoot, as a freep in the moors (from my experience) it's 2 creep raids with lots of WLs vs. ½ freep raid with 0-1 healers. We could use some help on Firefoot on the freep side. On Nimrodel, as a creep, the freeps usually outnumber us 2-1, but the map is pretty even, 3/5 keeps 50% of the time, but that's ONLY because the creeps are really good PvPers and the freeps just plain suck (a few good ones lol). This defiler will help out alot on Nimrodel, but it will just KILL us on Firefoot .

[Gumawerian]

I, too, am having mixed feelings about the Defiler, but for completely different reasons: it just doesn't seem to fit the setting. Halucinagenic gases, slimes and molds hardly seem like the fell sorcery, Black Speech, and curses that Tolkien described in his works -- and I always pictured cruel, wickedly-armed Men as Sauron's sorcerous, not staff-wielding orcs wearing bear-skulls.

Only time will tell how natural an addition the Defiler becomes, but so far I think my doubts are pretty valid. Right now it just doesn't seem right.

[RootedOak]

I, too, am having mixed feelings about the Defiler, but for completely different reasons: it just doesn't seem to fit the setting. Halucinagenic gases, slimes and molds hardly seem like the fell sorcery, Black Speech, and curses that Tolkien described in his works -- and I always pictured cruel, wickedly-armed Men as Sauron's sorcerous, not staff-wielding orcs wearing bear-skulls.

I'm near to positive that there are no sorcerors in all of middle earth. In fact most of the Angmar content is conjecture its self, so also are Defilers.

[Gumawerian]

I'm near to positive that there are no sorcerors in all of middle earth. In fact most of the Angmar content is conjecture its self, so also are Defilers.

The Witch-King was said to be a powerful Sorcerer before he became a Wraith. Also, Black Numenorians were said to have unnatural powers, and I imagine followers of that lore would be much akin to Loremasters who follow the lore of the Dunedain.

Again, I'm definately not looking for anything cheesy -- like I said, Black Speech, curses, and perahps orcish medicine were what I was expecting -- but I am definately skeptical about the putrid slimes, molds, and hallucinogens.

[gildhur]

Again, I'm definately not looking for anything cheesy -- like I said, Black Speech, curses, and perahps orcish medicine were what I was expecting -- but I am definately skeptical about the putrid slimes, molds, and hallucinogens.

As far as I know, it's not directly lore-based, but I see it as an evil twist on some of the plant-based abilities of Rangers and other mystical types: athelas, etc. /shrug

[Gumawerian]

As far as I know, it's not directly lore-based, but I see it as an evil twist on some of the plant-based abilities of Rangers and other mystical types: athelas, etc. /shrug

Orc medicine was what I was expected to counter the Rangers' athelas use. The "evil twist" reminded me of the "fell meats" that were fed to the Winged Beasts of the Nazgul. I see the corruption of the Shadow as often practiced by Sauron's wicked men, not orcs. Although it is nice to see more orcs in the Ettenmoors and fewer Uruks.

[Merridew]

Hi Orion -

Can we have an ETA on when the LM stun-immunity bug (LM with stun immunity on cannot be webbed) will be addressed? Thanks.

I agree with this is a serious bug. Also when will the creeps have an AOE stun to answer the freeps with?

[protox4]

Actually, what we need is a creep stun/root immunity. Sure there's pots that get you our of it, but there's no immunity and the instant you use the pot you get mezzed/rooted again. And there's the out of combat stun/root immunity pot which only last 15 seconds... not doing ANY good.

[a99barnsey]

The Witch-King was said to be a powerful Sorcerer before he became a Wraith. Also, Black Numenorians were said to have unnatural powers, and I imagine followers of that lore would be much akin to Loremasters who follow the lore of the Dunedain.

Again, I'm definately not looking for anything cheesy -- like I said, Black Speech, curses, and perahps orcish medicine were what I was expecting -- but I am definately skeptical about the putrid slimes, molds, and hallucinogens.

Have you played or seen the defiler in action? I too was kind of skeptical about how "cool" a healer that's using slimes and whatnot would be. But I played one and it turned out that I liked it a lot.

[Gumawerian]

Have you played or seen the defiler in action? I too was kind of skeptical about how "cool" a healer that's using slimes and whatnot would be. But I played one and it turned out that I liked it a lot.

It's on the Roheryn server, and given just how many of us rolled them, I'd say I saw a fair enough share of the action.


Again, I'm sure the mechanics are fun -- I just wish the creature itself were less "Hollywood B-movie" and more sorcerous, like the followers of Sauron were in the books.

[TheScyphozoa]

I'm actually glad that the Defiler heals with something that would actually keep you from dying IRL as opposed to keeping you from giving up. Two people singing at you won't keep you alive, just encouraged.

[gildhur]

I'm actually glad that the Defiler heals with something that would actually keep you from dying IRL as opposed to keeping you from giving up. Two people singing at you won't keep you alive, just encouraged.

/nod

Freeps have morale, which is encouraged by dainty things like guitar riffs, motivational speakers, and little baubles that people hold up in the air.
Creeps have health, which is improved by cracking whips, yelling, and now fungus.

[wolfaqua]

I think the freeps should start in the moors the same way the creeps do. You should have none of the abilities and attributes that you have gained in the rest of middle earth. The skills you can use should come from questing in the moors and spending DP. That way a rank 2 LM would be just as useless as a rank 2 weaver. Its the only way to make it fair.

yeah right, creeps who start at lv 50, move faster, and have on average 2x hp's , and you think the freep players should start in the moors with what they had at lv1. By the way in case you never noticed but freeps are allowed to play in the moors at level 40. Why do you think very few freeps play in the moors at less than 50? oh might it be that the advantage is too much in the creeps favor? And you want to make the freeps start with the attributes and abilities of level 1. That's a brilliant idea.

[gleowine]

Absolutely true on both servers I have played on. It seems freeps don't really want PvP. Instead they want to effortlessly farm creeps as if we were PvE content. Pathetic really.

Towards the end of my freep play in the moors I never fought a fight unless I was outnumbered 2-1 (very high rank creeps) or 3-1 (lower rank creeps). I let so many low level creeps live I probably passed up a full rank of reknown. This is a generalized statement and not indicative of every freep.

Bluestar, euroklyes, gel, loruan, eclipso, echlon, madzir, and more than a few others on our server would stick around to fight it out even against bad odds.

[VasDrakken]

I just want to say it is cool we get to play those annoying sappers that drove my guard nuts through 45 levels...

[Isilmacil]

Personally, the defiler helps the creeps, and the freeps just have to know how to handle that. like i get frustrated in moors when i'm shooting at someone, then they move just out of range, its smart, but annoying

and also, instead of JUST monsters and orcs, it would be cool if they added like, playable angmarians. cause its not just the monsters who fight, evil men do as well.

[Gumawerian]

Personally, the defiler helps the creeps, and the freeps just have to know how to handle that. like i get frustrated in moors when i'm shooting at someone, then they move just out of range, its smart, but annoying

and also, instead of JUST monsters and orcs, it would be cool if they added like, playable angmarians. cause its not just the monsters who fight, evil men do as well.

That was my point earlier in this thread: orcs weren't really like this. The Angmarim would have been a more suitable choice for such a class. Even if they were just orcs, they used medicines -- not slimes or molds. And I doubt they really wielded staves instead of crueler weapons.

Again, it was more of a lore-based argument -- like your own. But given the prevailing issues I see on the monster-play forums, I'd wager there are more pressing issues to fix.

[esandall]

From http://www.lotro.com/article/531:
"Hailing from lands filled with toxins and disease, the orc Defiler uses his knowledge of these virulent fungi and slime to aid his foes and hamper his enemies."

That should probably read "...aid his allies..." instead of "...aid his foes...".

[myfans14]

I LUV the orc defiler, mine is currnetly not ranked,because I'm trying really hard to get my hunty to 50, but LOVED playing the defiler! The instant heal is great for on the run from those annoying npc chars that help the good side.



(A little help here, I could'nt find where to poison the Hoardale, any one know where it is?)