NDA Drop Discussion

[BTiger]

LM are fine as far as soloing goes too. Mins are just mad (as far as soloing goes) because they have to re-trait to DPS to solo as well as they do now.. People like to exaggerate because they think it's the best way to get Turbine to capitulate to their demands. Mins were complaining they could no longer solo a nemesis or 2 elites (2 levels below them) at the same time anymore..while traited as a healer (and not using war-speech).

[greenleaf37911]

I didn't say you were OP, but your DPS at 50 was higher than it should have been, per my experience, and per Turbine, since you're not supposed to be a DPS class either primarily or secondarily. You can still solo just fine. Plenty of LMs in Beta did and are still doing so.

You're really wrong, minstrel and lore-master are DPS secondary to help with leveling and soloing the solo content, otherwise leveling and soloing the solo content would be a tedious chores no one would want to do and there would no minstrel and lore-master around. Since war-speech has been added, there has been more minstrels around because it has made the game a bit more easy and fun for them. Minstrels are close to be tossed back to where they were before war-speech and we will go back to less minstrels again, less lore-master. People should stop having their minstrel/lore-master envy because seriously, they wear light armor (my minstrel does) and they are not overpowered unlike some here who try to convince people they are. I don't see what is wrong with "enjoying" the game. More a class is fun to play, more people play it and obviously, if the minstrel and lore-master become anti-fun to play, you can imagine the result.

[gildhur]

You're really wrong, minstrel and lore-master are DPS secondary to help with leveling and soloing the solo content, otherwise leveling and soloing the solo content would be a tedious chores no one would want to do and there would no minstrel and lore-master around. Since war-speech has been added, there has been more minstrels around because it has made the game a bit more easy and fun for them. Minstrels are close to be tossed back to where they were before war-speech and we will go back to less minstrels again, less lore-master. People should stop having their minstrel/lore-master envie because seriously, they wear light armor (my minstrel does) and they are not overpowered unlike some here who try to convince people they are. I don't see what is wrong with "enjoying" the game. More a class is fun to play, more people play it and obviously, if the minstrel and lore-master become anti-fun to play, you can imagine the result.

[Wisdomandlore]

Why are you posting the new Hunter weapon?

[gildhur]

Why are you posting the new Hunter weapon?

Because as a DPS class, the Hunter has the right to the Win button, like killing a target (or three) before it gets to you. Minstrels do not.

[greenleaf37911]

Because as a DPS class, the Hunter has the right to the Win button, like killing a target (or three) before it gets to you. Minstrels do not.

In other words, you do not want minstrels to have fun playing their class too, to be able to solo the astounding amount of solo content there is ingame and to level up. See? You are definitively having a huge case of envy. As I said, since you want the lore-master and minstrel to suffer because you envy them, that means there will be less minstrels and lore-master to heal you and res you and buff you because of you and the others like you who whine over nothing. Strange how no one mentions how champion and hunter will be overpowered in MoM.

[Dom12]

You're really wrong, minstrel and lore-master are DPS secondary to help with leveling and soloing the solo content, otherwise leveling and soloing the solo content would be a tedious chores no one would want to do and there would no minstrel and lore-master around. Since war-speech has been added, there has been more minstrels around because it has made the game a bit more easy and fun for them. Minstrels are close to be tossed back to where they were before war-speech and we will go back to less minstrels again, less lore-master. People should stop having their minstrel/lore-master envy because seriously, they wear light armor (my minstrel does) and they are not overpowered unlike some here who try to convince people they are. I don't see what is wrong with "enjoying" the game. More a class is fun to play, more people play it and obviously, if the minstrel and lore-master become anti-fun to play, you can imagine the result.

There were lots of people who leveled up minstrels before WS, lots of people leveled guardians before OP. And I'm sure many of those people enjoyed the ride...

Do you really think the light armour makes that much difference? Self healing = nearly unlimited sustainability in solo content, whether you have 900 armour or 9000 armour.

[Cerridwen]

#4. someone said that theres teal PvMP gear, but the only screenshots I have seen show only purple gear. Is this true?

There is the old level 50 teal (and new level 50 teal for the RK & Warden) and the new level 58 (or 56, whatever it is) purple for now. I'm sure they'll add higher level teal at some point, but the above mentioned is what we have access to currently.

[Dom12]

In other words, you do not want minstrels to have fun playing their class too, to be able to solo the astounding amount of solo content there is ingame and to level up. See? You are definitively having a huge case of envy. As I said, since you want the lore-master and minstrel to suffer because you envy them, that means there will be less minstrels and lore-master to heal you and res you and buff you because of you and the others like you who whine over nothing. Strange how no one mentions how champion and hunter will be overpowered in MoM.

That's right...

[greenleaf37911]

Keep being in denial but when you'll go in Moria and there will no minstrel and lore-master to group with, you will regret it. On my side, I will have 5 other alts to play with beside my minstrel and lore-master.

[eanamdar]

I didn't say you were OP, but your DPS at 50 was higher than it should have been, per my experience, and per Turbine, since you're not supposed to be a DPS class either primarily or secondarily. You can still solo just fine. Plenty of LMs in Beta did and are still doing so.

This is exactly the issue I have. LM are not healers, or DPS, primary or secondary. So, we're intended to be a pet class, and cc. Ok, our pets are worthless in high-end encounters, and our cc is fair at best. Moria does not correct these issues, it makes them worse. Our skill sets are horribly structured, at best. Our CC got no love, and pets still are useless outside the small group, solo arena.

As far as our DPS, it was never overpowered. Have you soloed as a LM? Using cc, debuff, and pet, to full advantage, you can barely hold your own in the same type of fight any other class would win effortlessly. Why is simple: 1. Very limited self heal. 2. Poor armor. 3. Pets can't tank for you. All that made this work, was the dps.
.

[eanamdar]

Keep being in denial but when you'll go in Moria and there will no minstrel and lore-master to group with, you will regret it. On my side, I will have 5 other alts to play with beside my minstrel and lore-master.

Do we know how many additional slots moria will give us?

[gildhur]

Keep being in denial but when you'll go in Moria and there will no minstrel and lore-master to group with, you will regret it. On my side, I will have 5 other alts to play with beside my minstrel and lore-master.

Quoting for hilarious future use.

[gildhur]

Do we know how many additional slots moria will give us?

Two. One for Hobbit Warden, one for Dwarf Rune-keeper.

[eanamdar]

Two. One for Hobbit Warden, one for Dwarf Rune-keeper.

I think you're right, those two will be the fotd. I'm going to give in and do the dwarf runekeeper, but my other will be a burg. I've never played burg very far. Currently I have a 50 LM, 50 Hunt, 50 Champ, 30 Min, and 23 Champ. I played guard to 25 and Burg to 20.

[deathman22]

OK so from what i have heard on various threads has led me into beleiving hunters are going to receive outrageous dps come MOM, one thread in particualr declared a hunter will be able to hs for upwards of 6k, my rank 7 black arrow is traited all dmg and 1 power i have a total of 4.3k health how are the moors going to be balanced if that is true?

[be0wulfe]

If you have client side lag related to file fragmentation (often called stuttering) then Moria should help. That stuttering is usually linked to fragmentation issues with the data files. Since most of Moria is in new data files you should see performance improvements when accessing those regions. Make sure to defragment your hard drive before installation to maximize the benefit.

Other client issues have been addressed as well, but for people with filesystem lag, Moria should help a bit.

Defrag after and after every update too.

Lordy I've never seen a file system get more susceptible to fragmentation ... Vista? HAH!

[Gravious]

LM is my main. I can do more with that class than I can with any of my other 4 classes (burg being second). Although it takes a long time, some luck and patience, I can solo things other classes would instantly turn tail at. It's a tactical (ha!) class that rewards those that plan ahead and consider the various ways you can use your panoply of skills to tackle a specific situation. It's not for those that just want to burn down a target as fast as possible and move on (I have my hunter and champ for that). The fact that I could generally destroy most targets faster than my melee/dps classes while still being able to control mobs like marienettes means that we were probably due for a nerf, or in this case, not as large a buff as other classes got.

I'm probably in the minority, but I welcome the additional challenge. However, I'll wait till I get my hands on it before making a final judgement. Also, I don't play a minstrel, so I can't comment on that aspect.

EDIT: Bit of thread derailment... so to bring it back on track, can someone elaborate on the 'legendary items as quest hubs' concept that's been mentioned a few times in various interviews?

[Castegyre]

I'm kind of confused by this whole "LM's suck" thing. I'm more than willing to wait and see for myself what changes MoM will bring to the class before I comment on that, but right now I don't feel like I suck at all. My wife plays a Captain and we regularly group with a couple of Champs and a couple of Guards. Solo or in a group I am often the most survivable and versatile of the lot. I guess it might come down to play style and the fact that a lot of people don't seem to make it out of the teens playing a LM as to where that perspective comes from. My LM is not a nuker, he's a CC and debuff fight manipulator. I don't try to be a lineman, I'm the quarterback. I seem to do just fine at that job. I'm hoping that continues to be the case in MoM.

[jayspeed]

I love when we get new content but I also hate it because everytime there's a new patch some people claim the sky is falling. Turbine must hate Lore Master's and Minstrels because they've been reduced in power. I'm sorry but no class should be able to solo a Nemesis tier mob. This game needs a major nerf for all classes. Either that or make content much harder cause alot of characters are god like. IMO each fight should be tough. You shouldn't destory a same level mob in 20 seconds. The mob is the same level as you. It should put up a good fight and 2 same level mobs should be a major challenge. That's just my opinion but we need less hold my hand cupcake content and more challenge in Middle Earth.

[gildhur]

OK so from what i have heard on various threads has led me into beleiving hunters are going to receive outrageous dps come MOM, one thread in particualr declared a hunter will be able to hs for upwards of 6k, my rank 7 black arrow is traited all dmg and 1 power i have a total of 4.3k health how are the moors going to be balanced if that is true?

We don't know. The last stress test we did, the dev players noticed the obscene amounts of Freep DPS and said they would take it into consideration. But Creep health is not substantially up. So we'll just have to deal with it. And a 4-6k Heartseeker is hardly the norm. That's a devastated crit, not even a normal crit. So don't expect every Creep in the Moors to be one-shooted instantly by a raid of Hunters.

[greenleaf37911]

I love when we get new content but I also hate it because everytime there's a new patch some people claim the sky is falling. Turbine must hate Lore Master's and Minstrels because they've been reduced in power. I'm sorry but no class should be able to solo a Nemesis tier mob. This game needs a major nerf for all classes. Either that or make content much harder cause alot of characters are god like. IMO each fight should be tough. You shouldn't destory a same level mob in 20 seconds. The mob is the same level as you. It should put up a good fight and 2 same level mobs should be a major challenge. That's just my opinion but we need less hold my hand cupcake content and more challenge in Middle Earth.

I disagree with this, if I wanted challenge I'd play a hardcore game. LOTRO caters first and foremost to casual players who play for one purpose: FUN. If you cannot get that, then you are playing the wrong game. And it is wrong that all minstrels can solo elites by the way, the minority can manage in a long tedious fight to kill one but most cannot. And in the beta of Moria they cannot at all. In the minstrel thread, one showed up a video of a minstrel fighting different mobs with different traits and setups, and she can't kill any elite there, she dies trying. It's not because you're a hardcore player it means everyone is.

[DarkCntry]

Heartseekers, on average, will only do about 3.5k damage in Strength stance without on a baseline. In strength stance + devastate + legacies + Burn Hot, you can probably see upwards to 8k-10k, but getting all of those to work at once in one huge luck of the draw is probably going to be rarer than finding a huge boulder of pure Mithril.

Fear not Creeps, you'll still only be one-shotted by Freep NPC Guards on regular basis

As for LMs and Minis...I still saw an LM solo a +2 EM, so either they've learned to adapt rather quickly, or it's all a placebo problem.

[greenleaf37911]

As for LMs and Minis...I still saw an LM solo a +2 EM, so either they've learned to adapt rather quickly, or it's all a placebo problem.

Considering how upset LMs and minstrels and how vocal they are in their forums, I disagree with this.

[jayspeed]

I disagree with this, if I wanted challenge I'd play a hardcore game. LOTRO caters first and foremost to casual players who play for one purpose: FUN. If you cannot get that, then you are playing the wrong game. And it is wrong that all minstrels can solo elites by the way, the minority can manage in a long tedious fight to kill one but most cannot. And in the beta of Moria they cannot at all. In the minstrel thread, one showed up a video of a minstrel fighting different mobs with different traits and setups, and she can't kill any elite there, she dies trying. It's not because you're a hardcore player it means everyone is.

I didn't say all minstrels can solo elites but IMO none should be able to. So they needed to either make minstrels weaker or make elites stronger. If you have a hard time killing a normal same level mob one on one then you can complain. Let's wait until we see the finished product and adjust to the new play styles before we declare the end of the world. I'm a minstrel and I'll at least give it a try to see how much has changed. If I don't like what has changed I'll shelf my mini till there are adjustments. I have alts for a reason.