Runes thoughout Middle-Earth

[e_h_b]

Aside from this obvious example, the translation of "Katûb" as book is further attested to by its use throughout Moria. There are several place names containing this word, such as "Mezel-katub" and "Katub-zahar". Each of these are the names of places that appear to be libraries or archives. Indeed, I believe the name "Katub-zahar" very nearly means "library". We know from the Dwarvish name of Nogrod, Tumunzahar (or "Hollowbold"), that "zahar" means "bold" or "building". Thus, "Katub-zahar" would appear to mean literally "Book-building" or more figuratively, "library".

Just curious, where did you get the translation of zahar from? The only site I can find that mentions the meaning of Tmunzahar gives it as
tûm “bold / delving” (1st decl., type B) (in Tumunzahar, q.v.)
and
*zahar “hollow” (adj.) (in Tumunzahar, q.v.)
This of course would mean that Katub-zahar means Book-hollow or Hollow-book instead (or even Hollow of the book).
Source: http://forodrim.org/daeron/md_khuzdul.html







e.h.b

[Reddhawk]

Just curious, where did you get the translation of zahar from? The only site I can find that mentions the meaning of Tmunzahar gives it as
tûm “bold / delving” (1st decl., type B) (in Tumunzahar, q.v.)
and
*zahar “hollow” (adj.) (in Tumunzahar, q.v.)
This of course would mean that Katub-zahar means Book-hollow or Hollow-book instead (or even Hollow of the book).
Source: http://forodrim.org/daeron/md_khuzdul.html

I checked several sources actually, but here are a few that verify it:

http://folk.uib.no/hnohf/khuzder.doc

15. 1a2a3: zahar 'bold, *building'

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Part...2/khuzdul.html

Tumunzahar `Hollowbold', or Nogrod, a city of the Dwarves in the Blue Mountains, (S:91, 344, UT:389). It seems to have the elements tumun `hollow' (similar to Q. tumbu `hollow, swell') and zahar `bold, a building' (a noun form).

http://www.realelvish.net/book_names.php#t

Tumunzahar - Hollow Bold (Khuzdul)

tumun - hollow
zahar - bold

Furthermore, we can make the connection from the following site:

http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Nogrod

Hollowbold has an interesting etymology: it is the translation of nogrod, 'hollow dwelling' (early English bold, noun related to the verb build)

This shows us that there is some connection between the words "bold" and "dwelling". In the Peter Jackson films, they seem to have used the word "Zahar" for the Khuzdul equivalent of a dwelling or house:

http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Chamb...ngerthas_Moria

• "(The) house of Durin."

(from Khuzdul: "Zahar Durinul".)

If that's not enough to definitively settle the issue, keep in mind that there is a great deal of crossover between Tolkien's languages. Many of the words in his languages were derived from common roots. In The Etymologies found within The Lost Road and Other Writings, the following listing may be found:

TUB- *tumbu deep valley, under or among hills: Q tumbo, N tum. Cf. Tumladen 'the level vale' [LAT], the vale of Gondolin. *tubnā deep: Q tumna lowlying , deep, low; N tofn, Ilk. tovon. *Utubnu name of Melko's vaults in the North: Q Utumno; N Udun; Ilk. Uduvon; Dan. Utum.

Since a "hollow" is a type of valley, it would appear that the Khuzdul name of Tumunzahar ("Hollowbold") is etymologically linked to this elvish root. Indeed, the second source above mentions that Tumun is similar to the Quenya Tumbu. Thus, it is more than likely that Tumun is intended to refer to "Hollow", while Zahar refers to "Bold", "Building", and roughly "Dwelling" or "House".




Anyways, I hope that helps.

[Magnarr]

Wow, very concise work Reddhawk. Glad you got involved with this post.

[AgamemnonV1]

Wow, that was pretty good, Reddhawk. Are you competing for Berephon's job or something?

[Arasilion]

Wow, that was pretty good, Reddhawk. Are you competing for Berephon's job or something?

Berephron, much like the Istari, is forbidden to show his true power. Nobody can compete :-)

[shoreless]

Very nicely done indeed! That deserves a /bow if anything ever did.

Will you come by Elendilmir and teach me some Khuzdul?

[0rdinary0wl]

The Globe of Arda...just blew my mind.

I remember running past it and stopping to take a look at it because it was one of the coolest things I saw in Moria.

I had no idea all that was written on it!

Thanks so much for that.

[Reddhawk]

Wow, that was pretty good, Reddhawk. Are you competing for Berephon's job or something?

Let's just say if he ever needed an assistant "lore-monkey", I'd be interested.

[Jduerksen]

Incredible translation of the world map. Sorry if this has already been posted, but I couldn't find it. Has anyone translated the Dark Delving Runes?

The runes on the entrance stones, are the same as the ones on the light stones inside
Inside

Assuming this is written in Angerthas Moria,I believe that would translate to Azanturash.

However, translating it to english is another matter, all I can find is that in Khuzdul "Azan that which makes dim?" (http://www.lotrplaza.com/dwarves/dic...ct_khz-eng.htm)

This rune appears identical except that the runes are a mirror image? intentional or an accident?

[Jduerksen]

It appears to me that the floating Runes are just random sequences of the individual runes that are on the stones.

For example

and

[Arasilion]

"Azan that which makes dim?"

Taking it from the context, I would guess it means "Light that which makes dim", in other words "bring light into the darkness". Just a guess.

[Reddhawk]

Taking it from the context, I would guess it means "Light that which makes dim", in other words "bring light into the darkness". Just a guess.

Actually, from what I've been able to find, "azan" itself means "dim" or "dark". The translation given above (Azanturash), should actually be either Azanturas or Azanturah, depending upon the value of the final rune. This final rune is typically an 's', but sometimes swaps meaning with another rune so that it acquires the 'h' sound. The meaning of Azan is attested to in the name Azanulbizar (Dimrill Dale). Alternatively, the name is said to mean "Vale of Dim Streams" and is composed of the elements azan (dim) - ûl (streams) - bizar (valley). I haven't yet found any basis for the word "Turas", although I'm willing to bet that it has a meaning similar to "Delving". My guess would be:


Azanturas = Dark Delving

[Ninth-Laird]

This is a truly awesome work guys...Thanks so much.

I so enjoy the depth of the "Tolkeinian" languages. Guess we are all thankful that Papa Tolkein took all that time to put them together...and the Devs devoted so much time and effort to make use of them. Yet another reason that LOTRO is so awesome.

[tuor66]

Here's a simple one that's been around since launch - approach the throne in Thorin's Hall - carved in the top are 7 runes. I translated them into

th r a i n u l

Thorin was the son of Thrain and we've seen the ul at the end of a name before on Balin's tomb, meaning "son-of"

Simple but it also show's you the designers attention to detail since day 1.

[Magnarr]

Nice catch there Nordi! Tusen takk

[Ameliel]

Another very simple rune brought me to the crest of Weathertop For many of us, the Lone-Land quests revolving around that hill were finished ages ago. A few days ago (while re-reading the chapter Strider and the hobbits' confrontation with the Black Riders) I went up again to verify whether the markings were still visible on the stone if you no longer had the quest--and so they were: G III

[Arasilion]

Another very simple rune brought me to the crest of Weathertop For many of us, the Lone-Land quests revolving around that hill were finished ages ago. A few days ago (while re-reading the chapter Strider and the hobbits' confrontation with the Black Riders) I went up again to verify whether the markings were still visible on the stone if you no longer had the quest--and so they were: G III

I think I stumbled across that rune in beta, not really thinking it would be there. But sure enough, there it was right where it was supposed to. I think that was the first time I came across a "lore nugget" and it's probably what really got me hooked.

[sir-rinthian]

Anyone remember that quest in the misty mountains where the dwarf sends you to put a sign up by helegrod? the sign has runes written on it. My graphics arent good enough to get a descent screenshot, but it would be cool if someone were to find out what the sign says...

[Reddhawk]

Anyone remember that quest in the misty mountains where the dwarf sends you to put a sign up by helegrod? the sign has runes written on it. My graphics arent good enough to get a descent screenshot, but it would be cool if someone were to find out what the sign says...

Next time I'm up that way, I'll see if I can get a shot of it.


Anyways, the other day as I was exploring the crafting instances, I noticed some new runes. This sign appears several times in Mekeb-Farak and Mekeb-Faham:




As discussed in a previous post of mine, zahar means "bold" or "building". Within the lore, nâla is found with the placename Kibil-nâla, rendered into english as Silverlode. Since we know that kibil means "silver", it would seem obvious that nâla means "lode". However, there is this note on the Ardalambion site:

-nâla: According to TI:175, the meaning of this word is not known, but if the Khuzdul name Kibil-nâla has the same meaning as Sindarin Celebrant, Silverlode, it may be assumed to mean "path, course, rivercourse or bed".

This would mean that the building is identified as either Lodebold or as one of several other possibilities with no clear rendering into English (Rivercourse-building, Riverbed-building, Path-building, Course-building). None of these possibilities make any clear sense. Lodebold would seem to hold the most meaning, as it could refer to a building used for the storage of ore. However, considering that these (i.e. Mekeb-Faham and Mekab-Farak) are the scholar instances, even that doesn't seem to make sense. Indeed, the interior of these instances resemble a library more than a storage facility or anything that would be associated with mining or ore. One other possiblity that I have thought of is that the name is used figuratively. Perhaps, nâla has been used to refer to a "rivercourse" in a poetic allusion to the winding path through Durin's Way on which these instances are found. I suppose that's a bit of a stretch, but there doesn't seem to be any clear meaning behind this name without knowing exactly what the devs had in mind.

[Reddhawk]

Here's another one that I meant to post earlier. This involves the runes on the selection ring:



As you can see, the same set of runes appears twice within the rings.


Here's my diagram of the runes:



Unlike most of the runes in the game, these do not represent words in Khuzdul or Elvish. Rather, the selection circle contains English words encoded into runes. As you can see in the diagram, the translated sentence is: "The one that is chosen". The reason that the words "the" and "one" appear as "dhe" and "hwun" is that the Cirth are used to represent words phonetically, rather than literally. Thus, each rune represents a particular sound, rather than a specific letter.

Through the following link, you can see that Tolkien used the same rendering for the word the (i.e. "dhe") in the Cirth that he placed on the title page of The Lord of the Rings.

http://www.acondia.com/fonts/cirth/info/ex_lotr.htm

[Yaksha42]

I found one on the back of a 2nd Age Hunter weapon. It oddly bears almost identical runes to the Book of Mazarbul.



At least, that's what the top of the weapon looks like (you have to look upside down). It spells out Katub Maz.

I'm a little more confused by the bottom runes, it appears as though it's some kind of mirrored copy of the top, but it's not exact. The second rune (reading left to right) is similar to the "A" rune, but the long side is on the wrong side. I mirrored it, it's almost the same as "Katub Maz" except for the last rune, which is S instead of Z.

[Magnarr]

Here's another one that I meant to post earlier. This involves the runes on the selection ring:



As you can see, the same set of runes appears twice within the rings.


Here's my diagram of the runes:



Unlike most of the runes in the game, these do not represent words in Khuzdul or Elvish. Rather, the selection circle contains English words encoded into runes. As you can see in the diagram, the translated sentence is: "The one that is chosen". The reason that the words "the" and "one" appear as "dhe" and "hwun" is that the Cirth are used to represent words phonetically, rather than literally. Thus, each rune represents a particular sound, rather than a specific letter.

Through the following link, you can see that Tolkien used the same rendering for the word the (i.e. "dhe") in the Cirth that he placed on the title page of The Lord of the Rings.

http://www.acondia.com/fonts/cirth/info/ex_lotr.htm

Wow, another nice catch!

[Magnarr]

I found one on the back of a 2nd Age Hunter weapon. It oddly bears almost identical runes to the Book of Mazarbul.



At least, that's what the top of the weapon looks like (you have to look upside down). It spells out Katub Maz.

I'm a little more confused by the bottom runes, it appears as though it's some kind of mirrored copy of the top, but it's not exact. The second rune (reading left to right) is similar to the "A" rune, but the long side is on the wrong side. I mirrored it, it's almost the same as "Katub Maz" except for the last rune, which is S instead of Z.

Good one, Yaksha. That's a hard one to see.

[Magnarr]

Oh! I got called on it. Sorry for misspelling Middle-earth with the capitol in the title.

[Reddhawk]

Oh! I got called on it. Sorry for misspelling Middle-earth with the capitol in the title.

Heh. You'd be surprised (actually you probably wouldn't) how many times this happens. Even the DVD case for The Hobbit cartoon film makes this mistake. But hey, everyone's a critic, right?

The important thing is that it's provided an excuse for bumping this wonderful thread. Now, let's keep the runes coming.