Names in Middle-Earth, Quick Guide

[Berephon]

Very interesting thread!

Although my character's name is derived from Latin, I was curious if it had any meaning in Middle Earth, even if that meaning is silly or nonsense

The name is Stilachio Thrax

Unfortunately, no. Nothing similar.

[TheOneRinger]

My background in Tolkien stretches even further back, though. I started reading The Hobbit and LotR at the age of eight (finished all four volumes in four days, one per day)

Not to continue the off-topicness, but that is impressive. I read the Hobbit when I was eight I believe, and in one day, but I have not yet been able to read any of the LotR volumes in one day.

All that and you still thought Anduril was from the Second Age...

Back on topic, I love reading the names!

(pretty pathetic attempt I know)

[Farnik]

I just randomly came up with Farnik as my dwarf's name. I really doubt it means anything, but it'd be cool if it did.

[Shibi]

Thanks, especially for the pronounciation. I guess I need to retrain myself on Eregion.

Recently as I have been using voice chat more another place name in Middle-earth has come up in conversations many times. Does anyone know the correct way to say Michel Delving.

Mi(t)chell, Mickle, Michelle, Michael or some other way?

[Reddhawk]

Valsted looks fairly Germanic to me...the closest I can come to (through a very long string of "this word comes from this word comes from this word, ad nauseum"), I get a compound of Fyllu (by way of that long string of words I mentioned, starting with Fal-) and Stede from Anglo-Saxon, pretty much meaning Place of Fullness.

Couldn't it also mean "Place of Slaughter" or "Place of the Slain"?

We agree on Stede, but my thinking is that 'Val' could come from the Old High German Wal (meaning 'battlefield' or 'slaughter'), similar to the etymology for the Old Norse Valhalla (Hall of the Slain).

[AnomieX]

This is a footnote to the Lorebook entry for "Michel Delving":

2 'Michel' comes from Old English Micel. In Old English, the letter 'c' (in these circumstances, at least) would normally be pronounced as modern 'ch'. So, in rendering the name 'Michel', Tolkien simply seems to be adjusting the spelling to make it simpler for a modern audience to read and pronounce.

I believe this is the preferred pronunciation of most Tolkien-ites, including myself, though there is some debate.

On the subject of character names, most of mine are not really lore-appropriate, such as "Anomie" and "Cerys", however, some of them are very much so. My main character's name, "Ilwe", is Qenya for "the air between the stars". It's thought to be derived from the Finnish name "Ilma", which translates to English as "air" (apparently it's common to use nouns as names in Finland).

I also have a human female character named "Irilde", Qenya for "mortal maiden", which seemed an appropriate, if rather literal, name for a woman. It was apparently the name the elves gave to the elder of Turgon's daughters, who's correct name was "Idril" ("sweetheart"), but which the Kor-eldar mistakenly perceived as "Idhril" ("maiden of mortals"), a synonym of "Irilde". See the Appendix of The Book of Lost Tales for more details.

[Berephon]

Thanks, especially for the pronounciation. I guess I need to retrain myself on Eregion.

Recently as I have been using voice chat more another place name in Middle-earth has come up in conversations many times. Does anyone know the correct way to say Michel Delving.

Mi(t)chell, Mickle, Michelle, Michael or some other way?

I believe it is "Mickle" Delving. I'll have to verify that when I get into the office later.

[gildhur]

I believe it is "Mickle" Delving. I'll have to verify that when I get into the office later.

Is this SoA Beta? That's how I've always pronounced it.

[Berephon]

I believe it is "Mickle" Delving. I'll have to verify that when I get into the office later.

Wow, I quoted myself. Anyway, an interesting quandry. The source from which I derived the Mickle pronunciation was actually only listeng Mickle as another variation, not necessarily the actual pronunciation. However, I spoke with our in-house linguist and we discovered that there are two very specific "c"s in Old English; one with a dot over it and one without. The one without was pronounced "k," the one with was pronounced "ch." However, none of the OE dictionaries we came across used consonant markings, so it is difficult to know which form Micel takes.

So, short answer: I don't have one yet.

EDIT: So, we have received advice from an Old English expert (a bonafide one, not a hobbyist), who also happens to be a Tolkien enthusiast. While Micel does indeed have the "ch" sound we are all familiar with, he advises that it is probable that Michel is pronounced Mickle, due to that being the most common modern pronunciation. All other Shire names verifiably use modern pronunciation. However, he also admits that he does not know what the Modern English pronunciation of Michel was in Tolkien's region back in the 1920s, or whether the Professor chose to spell Michel with a ch for the express purpose of using the ch pronunciation or because it just looked better to him (which, as we all know, would not be the first time--Connexion, anyone?).

Anyway, now I'm going to have to take my J.R.R. Tolkien Audio Collection home, and see if he mentions Michel Delving in any of his readings...that would be conclusive one way or the other.

[Talaina]

While we're on the subject of pronunciation, would you mind clearing up something for me Berephon? How is 'Forochel' supposed to be pronounced? I had always thought of it as 'forohel' (don't ask me why ), where the 'ch' sounds like 'h' (maybe as in 'hate'), but have heard people pronounce the 'ch' as in 'charlie'. What is the correct one?

[Berephon]

While we're on the subject of pronunciation, would you mind clearing up something for me Berephon? How is 'Forochel' supposed to be pronounced? I had always thought of it as 'forohel' (don't ask me why ), where the 'ch' sounds like 'h' (maybe as in 'hate'), but have heard people pronounce the 'ch' as in 'charlie'. What is the correct one?

Neither. In Sindarin, ch is always pronounced like "ach" in German (you know, like clearing your throat.) So think of it as Foro <tv static> el (or if you have trouble with the ch, you could reduce it to Forokel.)

[Elankar]

This is a great thread, thanks for taking time to answer questions.

I'm almost afraid to ask this but do my elf names mean anything inparticular? Aisran and Alhran are the names I like to use. I think they sound cool at least.

[Reddhawk]

While we're on the subject of pronunciation, would you mind clearing up something for me Berephon? How is 'Forochel' supposed to be pronounced?

Neither. In Sindarin, ch is always pronounced like "ach" in German (you know, like clearing your throat.) So think of it as Foro <tv static> el (or if you have trouble with the ch, you could reduce it to Forokel.)

TolkienGateway has a particularly nice audio recording of this pronunciation, which you can hear here: http://tolkiengateway.net/w/images/5/53/Forochel.mp3

[martin93]

Berephon, I hope you still look at this thread.

I'm starting a dominantly warden kin... Maybe you could whip together a few warden-esque names for me? I don't even know where to start.

Ok I've got one started... "Die By My Spear" or "Die By The Spear"

So far I have "Firi" - To die and "Ech" for spear.

[Reddhawk]

Berephon, I hope you still look at this thread.

I'm starting a dominantly warden kin... Maybe you could whip together a few warden-esque names for me? I don't even know where to start.

Ok I've got one started... "Die By My Spear" or "Die By The Spear"

So far I have "Firi" - To die and "Ech" for spear.

I named my hobbit warden Merregar, from Proto-Indo-European Mereg (boundary, edge) and Old English gār (spear). Thus, his name represents his class. Merregar = March Spear, because wardens guard the marches (i.e. borders) and do so using spears.

I hope that gives you some ideas in creating your own names.

[Berephon]

This is a great thread, thanks for taking time to answer questions.

I'm almost afraid to ask this but do my elf names mean anything inparticular? Aisran and Alhran are the names I like to use. I think they sound cool at least.

Nope, at least not in Sindarin. If anyone is more familiar with Middle Eastern dialects, maybe there's some meaning there?

[Berephon]

Berephon, I hope you still look at this thread.

Whenever it hits the first page again.

I'm starting a dominantly warden kin... Maybe you could whip together a few warden-esque names for me? I don't even know where to start.

Ok I've got one started... "Die By My Spear" or "Die By The Spear"

So far I have "Firi" - To die and "Ech" for spear.

So you're looking for a kin name?

It would be something like Firi na Ech, Gwanno na Ech, Firi na Êg, Gwanno na Êg, Firi na Ecthel or Gwanno na Ecthel. (fir- or gwanna- = to die, using the infinitive. na = by)

[PerfectApproach]

I originally named my toon Malferadan out of some twisted, convoluted adaptation of Greek/Latin/Whatever roots Mal for "bad", Fer, for "to do", and -adan, a generic elvish suffix recommended in the character generator. Obviously, I didn't put much thought into it. Sort of a play on "doing bad things."

Recently, I found a pretty cool page that combined different Sindarin words into names. I discovered that Malferadan literally means "Yellow Beech Man."

Pretty awesome, except my toon is an elf.

So I thought of changing my name to "Malferellon Certharnir." My understand is that this means "Yellow Beech Elf / Rune Stone Master." As my toon is from Lorien, this would seem to make a little more sense. What do you think? I guess more specifically, should each part be arranged a certain way?

In English/German/Teutonic languages, the adjective always precedes the noun. In Romance language, the adjective follows the noun. In my understanding of Sindarin, it is designed from Welch/Finnish, so I would assume that adjectives precede nouns. Am I correct in this assumption?

This is a great thread, thanks for taking time to answer questions.

I'm almost afraid to ask this but do my elf names mean anything inparticular? Aisran and Alhran are the names I like to use. I think they sound cool at least.

Aisran has no literal translation; I am not able to find any known roots inside this name.

As to "Ailhran," there is a name "Aelran" that would be literally translated as "Pool of Water Crooked." This would be a VERY liberal version of Ailhran, and a very loose translation.

[Berephon]

I originally named my toon Malferadan out of some twisted, convoluted adaptation of Greek/Latin/Whatever roots Mal for "bad", Fer, for "to do", and -adan, a generic elvish suffix recommended in the character generator. Obviously, I didn't put much thought into it. Sort of a play on "doing bad things."

Recently, I found a pretty cool page that combined different Sindarin words into names. I discovered that Malferadan literally means "Yellow Beech Man."

Pretty awesome, except my toon is an elf.

So I thought of changing my name to "Malferellon Certharnir." My understand is that this means "Yellow Beech Elf / Rune Stone Master." As my toon is from Lorien, this would seem to make a little more sense. What do you think? I guess more specifically, should each part be arranged a certain way?

In English/German/Teutonic languages, the adjective always precedes the noun. In Romance language, the adjective follows the noun. In my understanding of Sindarin, it is designed from Welch/Finnish, so I would assume that adjectives precede nouns. Am I correct in this assumption?



Aisran has no literal translation; I am not able to find any known roots inside this name.

As to "Ailhran," there is a name "Aelran" that would be literally translated as "Pool of Water Crooked." This would be a VERY liberal version of Ailhran, and a very loose translation.

Yes, in Sindarin the adjective almost always precedes the noun in an adjective-noun compound. In a noun-noun compound, the second noun precedes the first (so "A of B" would be written "BA.")

Yellow is actually Malen, rather than Mal; Mâl means "Pollen" or "Yellow Powder."

So using your current roots, you roughly end up with Beech-pollen Man. (But I guess Malenferadan is a bit of a mouthful.) It should actually read Fervaladan (Pollen (A) of the Beech (B) Man, BAC.)

Keeping the same first and second roots and throwing in ellon (Elf-man) or Elen (Elf) would be Malferellon or Malferelen or more correctly Fervalellon or Fervalelen (though those are rather tongue-twisting).

For your last name, I'm assuming you were using the roots certh (rune), sarn (stone), and hîr (master)? That would actually come out Certharchir (the s becomes h, which drops after a fricative like th, an n following an r drops before another consonant, and h becomes ch following r or a vowel).

So the short is, you're looking for Malferellon Certharchir.

[thefallenringbearer]

Whoops! Yes, your name is a compound of mân and riel...So it is Princess of the Departed Spirit. (Except that -n usually mutates to -dh before r, so in most cases it would be Madhriel.)

Princess of the Dead?!

Remind me not to cross you!

[thefallenringbearer]

OKay, now that I'm getting two more character slots soon enough...

I have a couple of research requests...

He who inspires, or
Leader of Men

I don't know how deep your study of the languages of Men goes so I'm not expecting an exact answer and anywhere but Gondor wouldn't have the name in pure form anyways. Yes I know Sindarin 'would' work..but Mannish languages would help.

[Berephon]

OKay, now that I'm getting two more character slots soon enough...

I have a couple of research requests...

He who inspires, or
Leader of Men

I don't know how deep your study of the languages of Men goes so I'm not expecting an exact answer and anywhere but Gondor wouldn't have the name in pure form anyways. Yes I know Sindarin 'would' work..but Mannish languages would help.

Mannheofod (for Rohan or Dale).

[thefallenringbearer]

Mannheofod (for Rohan or Dale).

Stomps off mumbling "They're all going to laugh at me"

edit=good work, the comment was just meaning that I have some harsh kinmates lol.

[PerfectApproach]

Stomps off mumbling "They're all going to laugh at me"

edit=good work, the comment was just meaning that I have some harsh kinmates lol.

Remember that Sindarin is far from complete. Who's to say that you couldn't shorten the name up a bit to make it more presentable (and pronounceable). Tolkein himself was known to modify the language when he "discovered" new words. Tolkein's original invention of the language was based VERY MUCH on how it sounded. Welch and Finnish do have a way of rolling off the tongue gracefully.

Consider:
Manofod
Maneofod
Manhofod
Manheofod

If your kinmates give you guff about your new name, offer to tell them what their own gibberish names mean... and of course, feel free to "discover" your own definitions...hehehe....

[Berephon]

Remember that Sindarin is far from complete. Who's to say that you couldn't shorten the name up a bit to make it more presentable (and pronounceable). Tolkein himself was known to modify the language when he "discovered" new words. Tolkein's original invention of the language was based VERY MUCH on how it sounded. Welch and Finnish do have a way of rolling off the tongue gracefully.

Consider:
Manofod
Maneofod
Manhofod
Manheofod

If your kinmates give you guff about your new name, offer to tell them what their own gibberish names mean... and of course, feel free to "discover" your own definitions...hehehe....

That was Old English.