XP Reducer

[FoxFire]

Ha! You guys are really funny. This thread has become infinitely more amusing!

Well sorry, but hey if YOUR pet feature desire is as simply coded as an XP toggle (which I am confident the XP toggle would be - though I can't make an absolute claim toward without first seeing the code), I might consider helping Turbine out there as well (but that will cost $200/hr).

[Celt_Ainvar]

Question for both logothesia and Thane9. How many times have you seen a Weapon or Armour that want to craft you look at and go once I get all the supplys. I be able to make it. By the time you are able to make it you are 5 level higher and the item you tried making is useless to you.

Yes I would pay to have the Exp reducer added and have a writen agreement to the company that I will not contact CS due to lost Exp. I wanted the challange and willing to take that risk.

If they added a few extra repeatable quests who would need CS for lost Exp?

[findorin-gilrain]

Funny how things come around again and again...perhaps both sides can take comfort from this.

A question on the EU forums in June 2009

...Regarding the starting areas revamp, just as Scappydog stated in one of the above posts, is there any possibility to implement a perk, or some kind of feature that may adjust your leveling, I mean, getting less xp for the quests you complete/the mobs you kill/etc?...

and an answer from our beloved Orion...(Senior Designer Content Gameplay sounds cool imho)

This comes up often, it is something that we can certainly consider, but we currently have no plans for this at the moment.

and again...same post

So I am asking if you could add an option so players can decide their own gaming experience, in order that they can chose between power leveling and/or enjoying early game content without rushing through it...

Don't you think it will be a good idea to let players take their fate in their own hands? I understand this may take a lot of time to implement, but such a feature will make everybody happy, both, players who want to lvl up really fast and users who enjoy losing their time on the plane fields of Eriador...

This is an interesting question. One that can easily spark several debates. Technically, players do have their fate in their own hands, they can choose to play whichever area they wish after leaving the tutorial zones. The challenge of lower level creatures - in any game - is far less than a higher level creature as we do ramp up difficulty over time.

I certainly do understand the frustration and this is an oft requested feature so there is a chance tht we may see something like this, some day.

[Thane9]

Question for both logothesia and Thane9. How many times have you seen a Weapon or Armour that want to craft you look at and go once I get all the supplys. I be able to make it. By the time you are able to make it you are 5 level higher and the item you tried making is useless to you.

Yes I would pay to have the Exp reducer added and have a writen agreement to the company that I will not contact CS due to lost Exp. I wanted the challange and willing to take that risk.

If they added a few extra repeatable quests who would need CS for lost Exp?

That's a problem with the crafting system. One that has been talked about to death since Beta.

Breaking the base assumption of MMO game design that XP is a positive flow only doesn't seem to me to be the solution. I understand others see it differently, but I strenously believe that those people are a very small minority.

[Thane9]

C. We all know that =you= believe it's a niche feature. We all know that floon believes it's a niche feature. Fortunately, neither your opinion nor his is the final word on this topic.

It's a niche feature, by numerous definitions and I really believe that denying that only weakens your position.

Imagine the marketing gurus and what they'd put on a retail box. NO ONE would imagine they'd put "you can freeze your progression and stop leveling at will" as a selling point. Why? because the masses don't care about that.

I'm all for being passionate about the features and gameplay that you enjoy. Frankly, EVERYONE should be an advocate for what they want out of a subscription game. But to deny the simple truth that this, and many other legitimate features, people are looking for are niche is just delusional.

Heck, I fully recognize that PvMP (in this game) is a niche area. An XP toggle? Come on. At least be honest with yourself.

[klyth]

It's a niche feature, by numerous definitions and I really believe that denying that only weakens your position.

Imagine the marketing gurus and what they'd put on a retail box. NO ONE would imagine they'd put "you can freeze your progression and stop leveling at will" as a selling point. Why? because the masses don't care about that.

I'm all for being passionate about the features and gameplay that you enjoy. Frankly, EVERYONE should be an advocate for what they want out of a subscription game. But to deny the simple truth that this, and many other legitimate features, people are looking for are niche is just delusional.

Heck, I fully recognize that PvMP (in this game) is a niche area. An XP toggle? Come on. At least be honest with yourself.

An XP toggle would likely see more use than PvMP in LOTRO. And it also, would take about a thousandth of the development time that PvMP has (and does).

[Trilli]

An XP toggle would likely see more use than PvMP in LOTRO. And it also, would take about a thousandth of the development time that PvMP has (and does).

It (an XP toggle) would definitely get more use from my Husband and me than PvMP ever did.

As for what the "masses" want... if I cared about that, I'd be playing WoW. Not this niche MMORPG that I enjoy so so much more.

[Beldacar]

That's a problem with the crafting system. One that has been talked about to death since Beta.

Breaking the base assumption of MMO game design that XP is a positive flow only doesn't seem to me to be the solution. I understand others see it differently, but I strenously believe that those people are a very small minority.

Or, more logically, one can view it as a problem with speed of levelling. And I certainly don't have a problem with XP as a "positive flow." I'd just rather have the ability to reduce that flow to a trickle, rather than the current Rest XP / Bonus XP torrent I'm getting.

[FoxFire]

Imagine the marketing gurus and what they'd put on a retail box. NO ONE would imagine they'd put "you can freeze your progression and stop leveling at will" as a selling point. Why? because the masses don't care about that.

And THIS is why Turbine will never hire Thane9 for their marketing department.

Try THIS on for size: "Now, individual players can progress at the rate and level of challenge they enjoy!!".

It (an XP toggle) would definitely get more use from my Husband and me than PvMP ever did.

As for what the "masses" want... if I cared about that, I'd be playing WoW. Not this niche MMORPG that I enjoy so so much more.

Indeed. As stated earlier, I essentially only use PvMP only as a monster player when I see the Freeps have gotten the relics, so that I can help the creeps get it back and thereby eliminate the bonus XP associated with holding them. Then I jump back onto my Freep.

I wouldn't currently use PvMP as a Freep because I would not want to assist the forcing of bonus XP on the entire server population (including myself).

[Tiempko]

It (an XP toggle) would definitely get more use from my Husband and me than PvMP ever did.

As for what the "masses" want... if I cared about that, I'd be playing WoW. Not this niche MMORPG that I enjoy so so much more.

A valid point.

LOTRO itself is a 'niche' market. Clearly a majority of people do not play this game. In fact, a fraction of a percent of the population play it. Therefore, it ought not to exist - because a fraction of a percent is not worth serving.

[Celt_Ainvar]

That's a problem with the crafting system. One that has been talked about to death since Beta.

Breaking the base assumption of MMO game design that XP is a positive flow only doesn't seem to me to be the solution. I understand others see it differently, but I strenously believe that those people are a very small minority.

How would you fix Crafting system if it not the super fast exp. that make people level up to fast for crafting? Most MMO Games tend to have both exp and Crafting work as a group. untel at higher levels which take longer. But working hard you can work both Crafting and xp at the same time. So you could have that Nice level 30 armour at level 30 not level 40 like lotro.

A game should have Both crafting/xp be work at time if one user want to do so. But there tons of people like me, They like Farm there stuff and work hard to make Items. I am not talking about the people who buy there stuff from a AH. I am talking about people who are willing to work hard on there crafts untel they reach there Goal.

I am a Crafter 7 toons 7 Crafts and each toon has a differnt craft so they work as a group to make everything
1 Light Medium
2 heavy armour
3 weapons
4 Jewller
5 Scholar
6 Food
7 Range weapons.

Problem people have with the xp Reducer is they only see one Issue. They dont see the group of issues like I do.

[Thane9]

Problem people have with the xp Reducer is they only see one Issue. They dont see the group of issues like I do.

No you see everything through the XP reducers lens.

When in fact there are NUMEROUS other options for all the other issues you're talking about.

Have you read the crafting boards over the past 3 years? There's been PLENTY of talk about the problem you describe, PLENTY of solutions suggested, and never once in any of them did I see the suggestion that leveling your character was the problem or that slowing the leveling process would be an acceptable solution. Not once.

Granted, most crafter niche fans have either accepted the sytem, moved on, or made so many alts that it's a moot point now. But the reality is you're not even seeing how tainted your views are because everything you see is all about an XP throttle.

Oh and btw...I have 6 Supreme Master Crafting classes between my main and alts. My rather small guild of RL friends has the rest covered several times over. So I'm not just spouting off about crafting like I don't know the system.

I've had max crafters in every MMO I've ever played, multiple ones in fact. And I've played the vast majority of the AAA titles.

[Beldacar]

No you see everything through the XP reducers lens.

When in fact there are NUMEROUS other options for all the other issues you're talking about.

Have you read the crafting boards over the past 3 years? There's been PLENTY of talk about the problem you describe, PLENTY of solutions suggested, and never once in any of them did I see the suggestion that leveling your character was the problem or that slowing the leveling process would be an acceptable solution. Not once.

Granted, most crafter niche fans have either accepted the sytem, moved on, or made so many alts that it's a moot point now. But the reality is you're not even seeing how tainted your views are because everything you see is all about an XP throttle.

Oh and btw...I have 6 Supreme Master Crafting classes between my main and alts. My rather small guild of RL friends has the rest covered several times over. So I'm not just spouting off about crafting like I don't know the system.

I've had max crafters in every MMO I've ever played, multiple ones in fact. And I've played the vast majority of the AAA titles.

The problem is, each of those solutions only resolves one part of the problem. An XP throttle addresses most of them (you will note that I am not claiming it will solve all these issues). It's an elegant option to help keep players from outlevelling quests, outlevelling quest rewards, outlevelling crafting ability, and feeling like they're being rushed through the game.

Calling it a niche feature and using loaded words like "tainted" are not going to convince anyone of your point of view. Your best argument is the same one as floon's: that not enough players want the feature or will use the feature to warrant its inclusion. Unfortunately, you've presented no evidence other than your very strong belief. That's not evidence, it's opinion. You're guilty of the exact same logical fallacy that you project on the proponents of the feature.

I'm far more inclined to believe floon, because at least Turbine has heard the player feedback and considered the issue.

[Algorithm2]

I'll go you one further. Being a software engineer myself, if Turbine were willing (and accepted my signing of an NDA), they can send me the relvant code, give me a week to examine and understand it, and another week to implement the feature, along with its various safeguards (and those are conservative estimates), and I will do the coding for them completely free of charge.

<trim>

So there you go... The offer is on the table (you have my E-mail address).

Sign me up too, there are a number of other methods I wrote about before (but can't find the post right now) that I would like to explore as well. XP loss as a penalty of defeat wasn't on that list yet but could potentially be more useful too.

On the topic of the dollar value, I have previously stated that to me it is one install and two more accounts, probably for at least a year, plus my upgrade to Siege.

With the recent idea that skirmishes are to be an alternative path comes the bonus that anyone over 30 could get unstuck by repeating a few of those. Not that I truly believe anyone trying to slow down will get themselves stuck but there it is. On the flipside, if we can run skirmishes without xp (or perhaps, a mode that gives the option to accept the xp after a win) we can get RealUsageData on a RealFeature on which to guage the real value of similar features.

[Gareth420]

Wow this thread is still here. Guys the developer said he couldnt give a rat's behind what the customer wants. We are all too stupid to understand what we want anyways. Just be a good sheep ok?

[Beldacar]

Wow this thread is still here. Guys the developer said he couldnt give a rat's behind what the customer wants. We are all too stupid to understand what we want anyways. Just be a good sheep ok?

Not technically true. Floon said that not enough players wanted the feature and that those of us who did wouldn't be satisfied with it anyway.

And the reason the thread is still alive is because some opponents of the idea keep coming back and bumping it. When they do, proponents of the idea respond and the cycle continues. *shrug*

[Cerataindisaster]

Just look through this thread, well over half the posts are made by 5 very vocal people. They said it isnt coming in the form you want to be. Well at least you have this thread I guess.

[Beldacar]

Just look through this thread, well over half the posts are made by 5 very vocal people. They said it isnt coming in the form you want to be. Well at least you have this thread I guess.

*shrug*

And the other half of the posts are from the same 3 or 4 people saying "it isn't happening." What's your point?

One dev has said that A. no one is working on it, B. no one perceives a need to work on it, C. in his opinion it's a bad idea. That's one dev, not some mystical "they." Since no one at Turbine perceives a need to work on it, we who are in favor of it are trying to show them why it would be a good idea. If you don't think it's a good idea, your best bet is to simply not keep bumping this thread....

[Thrindal]

Wow this thread is still here. Guys the developer said he couldnt give a rat's behind what the customer wants. We are all too stupid to understand what we want anyways. Just be a good sheep ok?

You and reading comprehension are bitter enemies.

[Celt_Ainvar]

No you see everything through the XP reducers lens.

When in fact there are NUMEROUS other options for all the other issues you're talking about.

Have you read the crafting boards over the past 3 years? There's been PLENTY of talk about the problem you describe, PLENTY of solutions suggested, and never once in any of them did I see the suggestion that leveling your character was the problem or that slowing the leveling process would be an acceptable solution. Not once.

Granted, most crafter niche fans have either accepted the sytem, moved on, or made so many alts that it's a moot point now. But the reality is you're not even seeing how tainted your views are because everything you see is all about an XP throttle.

Oh and btw...I have 6 Supreme Master Crafting classes between my main and alts. My rather small guild of RL friends has the rest covered several times over. So I'm not just spouting off about crafting like I don't know the system.

I've had max crafters in every MMO I've ever played, multiple ones in fact. And I've played the vast majority of the AAA titles.

Oh ya the newbies that go on the crafting forum and ask about crafting and they are told oh buy from the AH or told to advertise to tan hides or Polish gems. Your Solutions sound like Lazyness to me and lack of any challange. Oh let bring up you 6 SM toons. Did you use one Explorer to collect all the ores and give them to your other 5 low level toons. Or if you have one high level Toon killing mobs to make Money so you buy all your materials at the AH and Call that Crafting.

Here what a Ture Crafter likes. They like to be able to Farm there own materials while Monsters are close by and have some type of DANGER feel in the game. Plus they do there own crafts on there own with out the help of a AH or Please can I polish your beryls over and over in the game chat. That always annoying. I want to be able work on stuff that my toons can use. I dont want it to be out dated by the time I get them made. That why the XP Reducer is a good idea.

[Kraggy]

Did you use one Explorer to collect all the ores and give them to your other 5 low level toons. Or if you have one high level Toon killing mobs to make Money so you buy all your materials at the AH and Call that Crafting.

Here what a Ture Crafter likes....

Getting 6 toons to SM+Kindred is a HUGE investment of time no matter how you obtain your materials, there's no 'right' or 'wrong' way.

Your narrow mindedness is showing.

[Celt_Ainvar]

No Kraggy People who Power level and do not understand challange and are narrow minded. All they want is Easy play.

3 weeks of game play 504 hours total is not what I call a Challange and be level 60.

A challange is Being able to Farm ores Fight and Make your own stuff You can use while playing and While you level up is a Challange.

I think the XP Reducer will add a Easy Med and Hard level.

Power levelers easy. Mostly made for younger children, teens.

People who Use the XP reducer some time Medium They want to be able to use the stuff they can make while leveling up.

People who want to do deeds, Crafting and quests and have a challange in the game. Hard.

[Kraggy]

Power levelers easy. Mostly made for younger children, teens.

People who Use the XP reducer some time Medium They want to be able to use the stuff they can make while leveling up.

People who want to do deeds, Crafting and quests and have a challange in the game. Hard.

Get over yourself.

[Celt_Ainvar]

Get over your lazyness. I WANT A CHALLANGE and Lazyness is not a Challange in my View.

Give the people what they want to level up slow and feel the fear of Combat as long as they want. I want to build my class the way I want.

War are not won By lazyness. It won by Courage and valour.

[Forjo]

Guys, please stop the personal attacks. Don't get the thread closed. There is room for all opinions here... even the wrong ones.

-Forjo