Level 65 2nd age Songbook

[Fortinobrand]

That is exactly what my 2nd age book looked like. It had every single healing legacy with the exception of the H&M. Well my 3rd age was healing for more since it does have H&M, so I decon'd my 2nd ager. A songbook without H&M is Useless IMHO. H&M increase ALL heals so it is 1 legacy you can't go without.

Agreed -- I'm grinding for another symbol, where would we be without the LI lottery? Meanwhile, crafting for a new 3rd with all the goods.

[doug01]

I don't consider substantial parts of Durchest, the Twins and the LT to be non-crucial parts of those fights. Both phase 1 LT and Twins are dps races from start to end and it's a bad call to not use BoW during them. What are you doing in phase 1 of the LT fight if not using BoW/CTG/Song of Aid/WS?

Last night in the LT we were consistently getting 3 puddles (almost 2) in phase 1 despite only taking 2 hunters with us and taking more melee classes. I grouped the champs/burg with me and kept 20% BoW up and it made a huge difference in phase 1 time.

Durchest isn't a really a DPS race for most of it, and when it becomes one the damage being dealt at that point makes doing anything other then spam healing a liability. The twins, is the same thing. LT, your doing ~10% more damage with BoW legacy vs not having it(or about 35k in P1, assuming ALL of the damage is melee), that translates to, at best, one puddle drop, again assuming ALL melee DPS (<--note).

Twins HM, are you having all your DPS in AoE fire all the time?

That directly impacts good positioning in phase 2 and enables us to fight the LT without stacking ranged classes.

Are you sending melee DPS in on the LT after the drake is down? Are you burning power tiering up?

And using ballads during phase 2 of the LT is vital. If you're just heal-botting during phase 2, you're going to run out of power. The room is a great size in that one can hit Morskor just about anywhere with ballads to get the power buff. Ballads are far more power efficient to use than something like piercing cry, which costs more power, AND they contribute to heals + give the BoW option.


I think you're assuming that folks who use BoW are just tiering up and not healing. That couldn't be further from the case. Heal, Ballad 1, heal if needed, ballad 2, heal if needed, heal again if needed, BoW, heal, rinse and repeat as needed to keep ballads tiered and heal people. Space out the ballads, get and refresh the power buff from Morskor, heal between as needed.

I think your assuming that because someone doesn't have the BoW legacy, they don't tier when possible. Not sure who told you that.

What I am saying is that another minstrel doing exactly what you are doing but without BoW legacy will only extend the LT transition time a few seconds at best, not insignificant, but hardly something to write home about either.

I'm speaking as my kin's raid leader and i'm far harder on myself than anyone else would be. The extra hundred fifty or so morale from a BC legacy isn't going to save anyone the vast majority of the time and since i'm constantly tiering up between heals, I'm healing about as well as someone with a maxed BC leg (10% v. 9%). And BC isn't the spell that is going to save people; Chord or RtS or Gift (if things are really bad) are more likely to "save" someone than BC anyway.

150/BC + the extra 300-500/crit = 3-4k more healing easily every minute when compared to NOT have the BC legacy for the same power consumption. Powers at a premium. I can pop off at least 2 BC in the time it takes to tier up. Tiering up is NEVER going to make up for lost healing during that time. Not even close. IMO, tier+the associate buffs will not make up for the lost healing if healing is needed.


I have to wonder how much harder your making the other members in you group work to back-up heal. Back-up healing is taking place no matter what, just how much of it is an issue.

And as a raid leader, if I see that a mins is trying to only be a healbot in tough fights, I talk to them, b/c that's far from what a good minstrel should be doing during these fights. Just b/c other people who don't know the class want to pigeonhole us into healing-botting doesn't mean that is the right or best way to play the class.

Please share your advice here, your tone is condescending. "Put up, or shut up" so to say. At the release of MoM there were several healing parsings test performed that show a huge advantage to healing straight out verses tier up. If your tiering up to improve your healing, your wasting power and time.

My book is HnM, RtS, BoW, IF, -power cost and +Will. Works well. People don't die b/c I don't have a BC leg.

I never said you couldn't win without BC, Never. What I did say is that in the end any fight that is challenging, healing legacies that benefites EVERY person I heal will be more useful to the healer than a 10% damage buffs to 5 (2 or 3 most likely) other member's the raid (at best). BoW is a very nice legacy. The way I play, and obviously you don't, is that I only tier up when the group is stable (priority #1). So I try to find the legacies that help me meet priority #1. BoW isn't one of them.

EDIT: Looking at the SS from your website it looks like you typically run with only 3-5 melee class in your entire raid (1-2 actually DPS melee classes). Under that formation, BoW is even less useful; where as the healing legacies are still completely useful.

In the end, you prefer a legacy that is situational, temporary, and only affects a few member of your raid vs something that is on all the time, affect the total healing you do, and benefits the entire raid. That's fine, we differ that's all.

[Corienne]

Please share your advice here, your tone is condescending. "Put up, or shut up" so to say.

My tone hasn't been condescending at all. I'm not the one who suggested that people who like to use BoW don't know the end game raids and are just basing their experience on the Watcher and 6 person instances. Or checking out people's gear on mylotro to see how far they've progressed and then denigrating their raid knowledge. That bit of elitism on the previous page was all you.

Yes, I disagree with you and I know these fights. And in response you suggest that I'm a subpar healer making others backup heal more than they should. It is like you are utterly incapable of disagreement without insult and the construction of strawperson arguments. Maybe that's how you boost your post count but I post rarely and did so only this time b/c you made ridiculous comments about how BoW is 'useless,' a claim you've since backed off. At least we agree that you were wrong there!

But you can tell how many melees we typically bring to a raid just by looking at a couple of screenshots on our website? That's amazing, you really are all-knowing.

[doug01]

My tone hasn't been condescending at all. I'm not the one who suggested that people who like to use BoW don't know the end game raids and are just basing their experience on the Watcher and 6 person instances. Or checking out people's gear on mylotro to see how far they've progressed and then denigrating their raid knowledge. That bit of elitism on the previous page was all you.

Wow, First that peticular response was not directed at you super-hero. Second, nice way to NOT address anything I noted. Nice job!

If anything I used to back up my OPINION is wrong, please say so. Otherwise I'm done with you.

Yes, I disagree with you and I know these fights. And in response you suggest that I'm a subpar healer making others backup heal more than they should.

Suggestion or question?

I'd say you have an issue with your ability, not by what I said, but by your defensiveness to my statement, your emotional response, and a complete absence of relevant information.

It is like you are utterly incapable of disagreement without insult and the construction of strawperson arguments.

Wow, if this isn't the "pot calling the kettle black".

Maybe that's how you boost your post count but I post rarely and did so only this time b/c you made ridiculous comments about how BoW is 'useless,' a claim you've since backed off. At least we agree that you were wrong there!

If anything, this does indicate that I do more than just hold to my position regardless of what information is provided. Unlike some, I have the ability to see a point of argument different then mine, see the merit in it, and then change my opinion. (FYI: this is not a bad thing)

Stawman, didn't see it, still don't, but hey, I like to use them so oh well.

But you can tell how many melees we typically bring to a raid just by looking at a couple of screenshots on our website? That's amazing, you really are all-knowing.

I used the information from your kinship website. Your touting of wins bit you in the a**. Its okay, it only hurts for a little bit


Just like this post, your post is nothing constructive and is a complete waste of time for both of us. I hope you continue to use BoW to burn down mobs uber fast, and in the mean time I use my additional healing to keep everyone just a bit more topped off.

EDIT: I did notice you elected to not "put up"

[Corienne]

Strawperson: An informal fallacy that misrepresents the argument of one's opponent.

Example:

In the end, you prefer a legacy that is situational, temporary, and only affects a few member of your raid vs something that is on all the time, affect every heal you do, and benefits the entire raid.

In effect, you created an illusion of what I'm saying that isn't correct and attack that instead of answering the actual arguments. Like when you try to say I'm being emotional (I'm not) or that I'm touting wins (didn't). It's all an effort to make yourself look argumentatively stronger by weakening me with descriptions that are simply untrue.

Let's Recap: You said BoW was 'useless' in the newer raids and claimed that those who didn't agree with you didn't know the raids. I gave multiple reasons why that claim wasn't true and you conceded. The rest is just your egotistical smoke-screening. I never said BoW legacy is a better legacy than HnM. What I said was that your claim that the BoW legacy is 'useless' is wrong.

But hey, try to prove me wrong. Quote away. Where did I say the BoW legacy is a better legacy than HnM?

I hope that helps you in your education. It is far more constructive than anything in your recent post.

[Gillianrial]

Lavi - with all due respect, if you actually read what others who even mildly disagree with you said, this discussion wouldn't even be happening. NO ONE is saying they don't tier and only "healbot" (how boring would that be?). At least what I was saying was when my raid is low on health - and my example was the end of the Twins, which with still low radiance comparatively( most folks are still at 130-140), is really tough - I am not going to spend time tiering and THEN heal them, I'm just going to heal them When most things are going well - like the first 1/2 - 2/3 of that fight, I'm guessing most good minstrels are tiering, provided power is healthy also. Of course BoW, when the only people you have in melee are 3 people on the fire boss, probably isn't a good use of power

Anyway BoW is a must on my everyday book so I agree with you on the usefulness of the skill (and legacy). I just don't have time for it very likely at the end of hard fights. I'm sure it will get easier as people get more radiance.

Cheers.

[doug01]

Strawperson: An informal fallacy that misrepresents the argument of one's opponent.

Example:
In effect, you created an illusion of what I'm saying that isn't correct and attack that instead of answering the actual arguments. Like when you try to say I'm being emotional (I'm not) or that I'm touting wins (didn't). It's all an effort to make yourself look argumentatively stronger by weakening me with descriptions that are simply untrue.

I made several post presenting numbers and percentages to counter your opinon. It is you who as not adressed my fact/numbers. I only noted your emotional response AFTER I was unable to pull any, and I mean any, non-opinion information from you. the "smoke-screen" here is that your last THREE post have nothing of value and are innuendo and detractions from the issue you can no longer defend... And I keep wasting my time telling you so.

You have made several comments about me personally, other than me calling you "super-hero" (I mean, hey, you came to the rescue of the posters I was responding to!), what insults or personal attacks have I made against you? You actually stated I insulted you prior to my "super-hero" comment, please quote, again

Let's Recap: You said BoW was 'useless' in the newer raids and claimed that those who didn't agree with you didn't know the raids.

When you say "you said" I'm assuming you can quote me, please do so.

Or are you trying to put words to me that I never said to misrepresent my arguement? (Strawman)

I gave multiple reasons why that claim wasn't true and you conceded.

I admit, I conceded that BoW wasn't "completely useless", I corrected my opinion upon reading your post to "not much use".

My apologies for being able to change my mind in light of a discussion, it won't happen again. No matter what, from now on I’m never going to give credence to any points offered by others, Close minded mentality FTW!

The rest is just your egotistical smoke-screening. I never said BoW legacy is a better legacy than HnM. What I said was that your claim that the BoW legacy is 'useless' is wrong.

If your inferring I said that you said "BoW legacy is a better legacy than HnM", please quote me.

Again, you’re using a strawman tactic that you seem so set against.

But hey, try to prove me wrong. Quote away. Where did I say the BoW legacy is a better legacy than HnM?

Funny, you're asking me to quote something you never said. Even funnier is I never even inferred you said what you’re asking me to quote. Again, this a strawman tactic, you're attempting to put words to me that I never stated.

I hope that helps you in your education. It is far more constructive than anything in your recent post.

I don't think "education" means what you think it means. You need to re-read the first sentence in your post, and learn it

[doug01]

For you Corienne:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVdhZwK7cS8


I was tired of my lady, we'd been together too long.
Like a worn-out recording, of a favorite song.
So while she lay there sleeping, I read the paper in bed.
And in the personals column, there was this letter I read:

"If you like Pina Coladas, and getting caught in the rain.
If you're not into yoga, if you have half-a-brain.
If you like making l0ve at midnight, in the dunes of the cape.
I'm the love that you've looked for, write to me, and escape."

I didn't think about my lady, I know that sounds kind of mean.
But me and my old lady, had fallen into the same old dull routine.
So I wrote to the paper, took out a personal ad.
And though I'm nobody's poet, I thought it wasn't half-bad.

"Yes, I like Pina Coladas, and getting caught in the rain.
I'm not much into health food, I am into champagne.
I've got to meet you by tomorrow noon, and cut through all this red tape.
At a bar called O'Malley's, where we'll plan our escape."

So I waited with high hopes, then she walked in the place.
I knew her smile in an instant, I knew the curve of her face.
It was my own lovely lady, and she said, "Oh, it's you."
And we laughed for a moment, and I said, "I never knew"..

"That you liked Pina Coladas, and getting caught in the rain.
And the feel of the ocean, and the taste of champagne.
If you like making l0ve at midnight, in the dunes of the cape.
You're the love that I've looked for, come with me, and escape."

"If you like Pina Coladas, and getting caught in the rain.
If you're not into yoga, if you have half-a-brain.
If you like making l0ve at midnight, in the dunes of the cape.
You're the love that I've looked for, come with me, and escape."



+rep to you for being so devoted...

[Reillan]

No insult intended. From looking at both of your lotro pages I can't tell if you ever healed in the the end game raid (singlular). If you have, you've managed to exceeded the healing output of the some of the best raiding minstrels in the game. There are several threads lately especailly, on how the best raiding kinship in the game are not being able to beat the boss fights in BG. Why? Becuase the damage being dealt to the group/individuals just can't be healed by a typical raid set-up.

IF you haven't healed for hardmode runs in BG, then again no insult, you have not idea what your saying. If your using Gorothul, Watcher, or DN as your standard for a Boss fight, you're in for a rude awaking in BG.

Put simply...when the fights get tough, you're a heal bot, your dont have 3-4 seconds to tier up. Tier up=people dead, people dieing = group wipe

For any minstrels in the game who plans on healing for the hardest content in the game, healing/power legacies are going to be the most usefull. If your experience puts you in 6-mans or lv60 raids then BoW might have more benifits over some healing legacies.

I've healed for the first two hard mode fights of BG. Have not even tried the lieutenant yet in easy mode, admittedly, simply because we haven't desired to fight him because we've heard how nasty the fight is. yes, it's difficult to heal and keep these up, I will not argue that - occasionally I do have to give up the vitality and evade buffs and simply tier up via Chorus or spamming my attack ballads, but I will always keep my BoW up. You can have it when you pry it from my cold, dead songbook.

[Mark_J]

AotFP give about 750 moral (IIRC) over thirty seconds, One IF beats it, so for healing puposes sololy AotFP isn't worth the time since IF is faster to execute.

I'd have to disagree with this.

Ballad of Steel provides +780 Armor
Ballad of Balance provides a +804 Evade
Ballad of War provides a +20% Melee damage
Anthem of the Free People provides +1545.4 In-Combat Morale Regeneration

All of the Ballads add +3% Healing and Motivation Skills Morale Healing

Now completing all of the above will cost you 388 power, have no inductions and take you maybe 4 seconds with animations.

Hitting Inspire Fellows once will cost you 382 power and has an induction of 2.5 seconds, so for about the same power and maybe a second longer you're trading all those Ballad Benefits for one Inspire Fellows. In my opinion there is no contest between the benefits of Inspire Fellows VS tiering up with Ballads and AotFP. If you're not using Ballads, you're placing an unnecessary burden on your healing capability.

[Gillianrial]

Ballad of Steel provides +780 Armor (which is not a group buff)
Ballad of Balance provides a +804 Evade
Ballad of War provides a +20% Melee damage (if you have the legacy and it's maxed - otherwise it's 10% or whatever you have the legacy at)
Anthem of the Free People provides +1545.4 In-Combat Morale Regeneration (<3 AotFP)

All of the Ballads add +3% Healing and Motivation Skills Morale Healing (+5% in WoR and two tales is a huge power suck in BG so it works to trait WoR again)

Now completing all of the above will cost you 388 power, have no inductions and take you maybe 4 seconds with animations. (It takes longer than this - evade/vitality buffs are now songs if you're slotting Smooth Voice - and otherwise they're not group buffs...so unless you're slotting Smooth Voice, they're useless to your group unless you're just putting them up for yourself...in which case they don't apply to this discussion)

Hitting Inspire Fellows once will cost you 382 power (less if you're 5/6 DN, slot Life Singer, at least 2 WoR and/or have -power costs) and has an induction of 2.5 seconds, so for about the same power and maybe a second longer you're trading all those Ballad Benefits for one Inspire Fellows. In my opinion there is no contest between the benefits of Inspire Fellows VS tiering up with Ballads and AotFP. If you're not using Ballads, you're placing an unnecessary burden on your healing capability.

Added a couple thoughts above.

BTW, it's funny how much more I use IF now in Mirkwood. It's now a must legacy on my raid book, whereas I would rarely use it before.

[doug01]

I'd have to disagree with this.

Ballad of Steel provides +780 Armor (self buff)
Ballad of Balance provides a +804 Evade (self buff, or groups, but then your 4 seconds is higher)
Ballad of War provides a +20% Melee damage
Anthem of the Free People provides +1545.4 In-Combat Morale Regeneration (or about 750 morale over 30 seconds )

All of the Ballads add +3% Healing and Motivation Skills Morale Healing

Now completing all of the above will cost you 388 power, have no inductions and take you maybe 4 seconds with animations.

Hitting Inspire Fellows once will cost you 382 power and has an induction of 2.5 seconds, so for about the same power and maybe a second longer you're trading all those Ballad Benefits for one Inspire Fellows. In my opinion there is no contest between the benefits of Inspire Fellows VS tiering up with Ballads and AotFP. If you're not using Ballads, you're placing an unnecessary burden on your healing capability.

Again, as I stated in an earlier post, no matter what you are doing with ballads you can not match you're healing output for green numbers compared to spamming heals. Just can't do it. In my case, my IF hits everyone for ~700-1k each time (and I don't even run with the IF Legacy), if anyone crits its can top 2k. Tiering+AotFP can't match that, just can't. If you're pointing out that with the buff the group will take less damage, then you have to factoring the increased time to tier up. I can almost get of TWO IF with ballad inductions counted in.

Time yourself, it take about 7-8 second to chain 4 ballots (assuming one has an induction). Thats about the same time it take to execute two IF (not back to back) but for time/healing return.

This subject was beat to death over a year ago, minstrels presented parses (IIRC) indicating they could almost double the healing output of someone tiering up by simply spamming skills. I'm not saying this is good, or even fun, but it is what it is. In reality, you can heal for more with each individual skill by tiering up, no doubt. What you're not considering is that you are executing less healing skills per minute when tiering up.

If your teiring up, your NOT saving power, you're NOT maximizing your healing/per minute. That's just simple math. Power issue even gets more lopsided once you have the DN set and the -power legacy.

In the end, you're trading off power/overall healing output for the buffs. Its a judgment/opinion as to whether or not the trade-offs are worth it. IMO, when your max potential for healing is required, and not many fights put a minstrel in this situation, teiring up is a liability and an "unnecessary burden on your healing capability".

If you are running stuff that doesn't require your "A" game then the BoW is awesome. Like I said, I use it on my book for running everything except the hardest content. If you can run BoW for hardest content, more power to you, I simple prefer to be a more effective healer. Its not a matter of right/wrong, its a matter of preference.

[Mark_J]

Just to clarify, I certainly do use Inspire Fellows, I just don't replace the Ballads with it. I would also take Ballad of War over Inspire Fellows as a Legacy...

It doesn't take anywhere near 7-8 seconds to chain the Ballads, it's right around 4 seconds unless you are using Smooth Voice.

Again, I'll disagree that just spamming Bolster is the best use of a Minstrel. Everything else we bring to the table makes it foolish to simply spam heals. If we can reduce the time a Mob stays alive, we reduce the need for healing, if we can increase the ICMR of our entire group, we reduce the need for healing, I could go on and on but I'm sure you get the point.


I think it's a mistake not to tier up and use more than just BC in any fight, but it's these types of differences that make this game great

[doug01]

It doesn't take anywhere near 7-8 seconds to chain the Ballads, it's right around 4 seconds unless you are using Smooth Voice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIuazOK1IoQ

First ballot executes at 21 seconds, the 4th ends at 27 seconds. No inductions

Time yourself, it take about 7-8 second to chain 4 ballots (assuming one has an induction)

I might be one second off, maybe

*shrug*

[Gillianrial]

Just to clarify, I certainly do use Inspire Fellows, I just don't replace the Ballads with it. I would also take Ballad of War over Inspire Fellows as a Legacy...

It doesn't take anywhere near 7-8 seconds to chain the Ballads, it's right around 4 seconds unless you are using Smooth Voice.

Without Smooth Voice, you're not buffing your group with +evade or +vitality (or ever with +armor via ballads) - only yourself. So I am completely lost as to how those help your group at all aside from +3% H&M which is < 5% H&M? They don't - not unless they're traited. Of course BoW is useful! 20% melee damage with a legacy is great in places like SG, the Gauntlet, etc. Heck, it's great everywhere where we have a lot of melee. In BG, how melee heavy are you? We take minimal melee after Durchest. *shrugs*

[Mark_J]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIuazOK1IoQ

First ballot executes at 21 seconds, the 4th ends at 27 seconds. No inductions

I might be one second off, maybe

*shrug*

Try your combat log parsed through CStats for a more accurate timestamp rather than a fraps video which is subject to all sorts of lag/delay issues as well as mobs beating on you or the delay you get from Auto Attack even when it's turned off. You'll see how long it takes then, it's just about 4 seconds on average.

Here is an example from just a few minutes ago;

You wound the Conscripted Defender with Ballad of Steel for 141 points of Light damage. 2:49:10 PM
You wound the Conscripted Defender with Ballad of Balance for 345 points of Light damage. 2:49:11 PM

There's no way it could be 7-8 seconds for all 4 when you can execute 2 of them in one second...

Without Smooth Voice, you're not buffing your group with +evade or +vitality (or ever with +armor via ballads) - only yourself. So I am completely lost as to how those help your group at all aside from +3% H&M which is < 5% H&M? They don't - not unless they're traited. Of course BoW is useful! 20% melee damage with a legacy is great in places like SG, the Gauntlet, etc. Heck, it's great everywhere where we have a lot of melee. In BG, how melee heavy are you? We take minimal melee after Durchest. *shrugs*

I agree with what you're saying, but I really don't select my legacies based on two bosses (the Twins and LT) in a single Instance. For those 2 bosses AotFP is really about the only thing worth using other than your Heals although the argument could be made for utilizing BoW on the Fire Twin...

[Anamatronix]

I am going to point out that in Durchest and the Twins I value the fear resist and flame mitigation buffs more then BoW.

We have minimal melee dps (ie probably a grd, 2 captains and a burg in a raid, if there's a champ it's me, so what I do on my minstrel then is moot), but reducing incoming fire damage on the people beating on the fire guy is huge, plus the higher chance to simply resist the first pulse of fear damage from your pool is also very useful. With 3 yellow traits, the buffs last 30,40,50 seconds and I have a maxed lvl 60 2nd age book for my T3 ballads as I've stated before (higher ratings then a lvl 65 3rd age). If I'm going to scale ballads I'll put up my fear/flame buffs first every time in those fights, and then BoW.

[doug01]

Try your combat log parsed through CStats for a more accurate timestamp rather than a fraps video which is subject to all sorts of lag/delay issues as well as mobs beating on you or the delay you get from Auto Attack even when it's turned off. You'll see how long it takes then, it's just about 4 seconds on average.

Here is an example from just a few minutes ago;

You wound the Conscripted Defender with Ballad of Steel for 141 points of Light damage. 2:49:10 PM
You wound the Conscripted Defender with Ballad of Balance for 345 points of Light damage. 2:49:11 PM

There's no way it could be 7-8 seconds for all 4 when you can execute 2 of them in one second...

I must have an older version of cstast. Mine either won’t do time stamps or I don’t know how to make it do time stamps.

Either way, I did test it and you are correct. Spamming just ballads resulted in 1 action per seconds with no interrupts. I shouldn't put so much stock in videos.

25 actions in 25 seconds
27 actions in 27 seconds

With using one induction (song of vigour) once in every 4 actions resulted in the time only increasing about 2 seconds.

Tested on wargs in north downs:
Ballad of resonance-Song of Vigour - Ballad of swiftness- ballad of stout

4 actions in 6 seconds (one induction, 3 ballads) (repeated result 8 times)
5 actions in 7 seconds (one inductions) (4 ballads) (repeated result twice)

So my 7-8 was high. Your 1 second per action is correct, but once you add in one induction, as I stated, it jumps.

Just for the record;

Ballad of resonance-Song of Vigour - Song of Balance- ballad of stout- ballad of steel

5 actions in 10 seconds (repeated 3 times)
(this was a bit harder to get being that I only looked at fights where the mobs initial attack was miss/B/P/E so to avoid set backs.)

So I screwed up with the 7-8, its really 6. Not 4 though, but I think you were referring to ballads only, which I was not.

FYI, not matter how many test I ran, I was never able to execute 2 actions in one second per your statement, or even average better than 1.0 actions per second yet alone 0.5 actions. I always had the skill chained and never AA.

Also, I can execute IF in 3.3 seconds with animations. So I can ALMOST execute 2 IF in the time it takes to tier up (again, assuming one induction). Also, my incoming healing is a whopping 288. In 22 inspire fellowships I average 805 per heal without having the IF legacy

So, although I'll agree you can teir up in 4 seconds, you still aren’t producing more healing with AotFP in the same time frame, and your burning more power to do so. Also, AotFP has a 2m (?) CD so you can, at best, keep it up 40% of the time. The other 60% your tiering up for 5-10% on your heals but you're casting them almost 50% less. That’s a net loss of 40% healing. Even during the time AotFP is up, you’re still healing less, just not as much, rough guess 30%. Also, the only thing you "bring to the table" with a four second tier is BoW and AotFP. I think I clearly shown AotFP is a fail compared to just popping one IF (+associate buff which I forgot about). So its just BoW vs 30-40% more healing. You're choice.

Long post, and I don't think anyone is going to change their preferences so I'll leave this thread as is. Good luck and have fun!

[Yesler]

My first 65 Second-Age got H&M, Bolster Courage, Chord of Salvation CD, -Song Resist, +Ballad of Fire Resists, and Healing Skills Power Cost. Not ideal but pretty good, it's depressing how many I've seen since then that ID'd terribly.

[tsathogga]

I got lucky on a 3A; rolled heal power cost, H&M and BOW; reforge 2 got me bolster. I'll never bother w/ a 2nd age now. Took me 8 scrolls to max these out, so why bother.

[ConstantiaChlorus]

Added a couple thoughts above.

BTW, it's funny how much more I use IF now in Mirkwood. It's now a must legacy on my raid book, whereas I would rarely use it before.

QFT

Mirkwood and our new super crits have completely changed Inspire Fellows for me. I crit it near and sometimes over 2000 on people with incoming heal mods. I'm amazed now at how big and how often it can land for. In Mirkwood it's darn near a group Bolster Courage compared to Moria when you get a lucky roll on it. With the -10% healing cost trait, and my songbook power cost reducer, and my 5 piece DN bonus I can land that thing for about 344 power, That's nothing compared to seeing it super crit now for massive numbers. It does take luck and incoming heal mods on the targets but it can really be worth it now in ways it wasn't before Mirkwood.

I try to work it into skill rotation with Song of Soothing now often several times per pull in ways that I never bothered to before. My power pool also holds out much better than ever before. The downside of that is people are starting to get real sloppy. So when those crits don't land they melt fast. Often they were clueless on how much damage they were taking.