Tank, Healer, DPS relations: What you think?

[Dalthyn]

Most raid hunters I know spec S:P, I even S:P spec for range tanking Cargaraf. I find it most entertaining when I get in a group with the "heavy DPS Hunter" and after about 3 minutes or so of a boss fight they have dropped below me on the threat table even though I am running S:P and I am only traited one or two deep in bowmaster.

The school of thought on S:P Huntsman is to hit more often more quickly with no artificial threat inflation. I am not sure why anyone would want +power costs and +threat unless they are tanking. But the damage from the S:S build does not justify the costs of up to +40% threat.

Just my thoughts.

Not to mention the increased power costs from S:S. In addition to the Precision Crit Magnitude legacy there are so many nice traits in Huntsman. Decreased focus costs, increased focus over time, shorter NH/IC cooldowns. And when you do run low on power, having no induction on SotE is really nice. Pretty much the only thing that sucks is the capstone. Even if I am range tanking, I'll generally just switch to S:S in the beginning, and then go to S:P when I'm pretty sure I've got solid aggro.

Either way, I'd much rather put out steady DPS with lower power consumption and without the extra threat, than ooh and aah over a big crit now and then. Besides they're big enough anyway with 4 Hunstman/3 Bowmaster. Fast Draw, Swift Recovery, Strong Draw, Enduring Precision, True shot, Swift & True, Deadly Precision = win. More focus faster, less focus cost, shorter inductions all around, NH more often, IC more often, what's not to love...

[Earedhel]

I think one thing to keep in mind is that you can trait as far as you want into bowmaster line and recieve the benefits of the traits themselves without being subject to the line set "bonuses": just stay in precision. I used to spec only 2 bowmaster because i like to stay in strength while soloing, but then it dawned on me (duh) that i could load up on bowmaster for the individual trait benefits and run in precision and not worry about the line set bonuses. This may be obvious to many, but i've been playing a hunter for 2 years and it just dawned on me a few weeks ago...please don't flame me, i'm fragile

[Kreegan]

Since I play all the different classes (my main is a tank, my preferred class, but I also have been the main healer, CC, and DPS in groups), I don't feel it is anyone's fault if anyone dies. It takes group coordination (discussion) before the fur starts flying and cooperation during the fight. As such, it is a collective group failure when that happens.

People need to talk up front, not after the fit hits the shan. If members of a group don't talk up front, then they are all responsible for not organizing the fight.

When I'm tanking, I always remind group members to let me get aggro established before the DPS begins whaling on mobs; I also let folks know that if they steal aggro, my first responsiblity (if somebody else is not assigned to off-tank) is to protect the healer (minstrel or RK). If the main healer dies, odds are we'll all die. If the healer is okay and somebody else grabs aggro, pripority goes to getting it off of the squishiest player with aggro. If a champion or captain grabs aggro, I'll generally let him/her keep it unless the player is at risk (low morale) -- with heavy armor, they can sustain the damage for a while.

If I'm main healing, I always let the group know my first responsibility is to the tank. If the main tank dies, odds are we'll all die.

If I'm DPS'ing, I make sure I start out slow; let the tank get aggro established; then open up when I'm fairly certain I won't be stealing aggro. I also keep an eye on the healer; if the healer takes aggro, I will try to get it away from her by going berserk on the mob (especially if it is a trash mob) on the healer -- but only if the tank (or off-tank, if there is one) can't react. Should I die when in a DPS role, no big deal; the group can still usually survive.

[Aidus]

I think one thing to keep in mind is that you can trait as far as you want into bowmaster line and recieve the benefits of the traits themselves without being subject to the line set "bonuses": just stay in precision. I used to spec only 2 bowmaster because i like to stay in strength while soloing, but then it dawned on me (duh) that i could load up on bowmaster for the individual trait benefits and run in precision and not worry about the line set bonuses. This may be obvious to many, but i've been playing a hunter for 2 years and it just dawned on me a few weeks ago...please don't flame me, i'm fragile

This is true and can add some nice bonuses to S:P, but I will rarely be more than 3 deep in Bow Master, there is just to much yummy goodness in the Huntsman trait line. It has become like crack to me, that and the Great Bow Set bonus. I feel like I am playing with half a hunter when I have to change either of those two things.

[huntermaniac]

This is true and can add some nice bonuses to S:P, but I will rarely be more than 3 deep in Bow Master, there is just to much yummy goodness in the Huntsman trait line. It has become like crack to me, that and the Great Bow Set bonus. I feel like I am playing with half a hunter when I have to change either of those two things.

4 deep in Bowmaster actually only applies to S:S...

[Kannos1600]

nothing wrong with full BM line. I myself just don't like the 30% increase in power cost. I cap at 15% and it's good to go from that point.

[Aidus]

4 deep in Bowmaster actually only applies to S:S...

It is the traits I have to give up from the huntsman line, or ToF since I run BG. I like to Graceful Draw traited always, I find it a great way to help reduce threat while still contributing (if I goof up and generate to much threat).

Once I trait deadly precision and critical eye and then Heighted Senses and/or Graceful draw, I have to devote the remaining 3 or 4 traits to Huntsman. I have been running 3 deep in Bowmaster but I find I don't need the extra threat for Cargaraf so I will be switching back to my normal trait lines soon.

[Aidus]

nothing wrong with full BM line. I myself just don't like the 30% increase in power cost. I cap at 15% and it's good to go from that point.

I agree. While the increased threat is annoying it can be dealt with, the power costs are what really make this Bowmaster line unrealistic for me.

[Fendrone]

I agree. While the increased threat is annoying it can be dealt with, the power costs are what really make this Bowmaster line unrealistic for me.

Meh, you can cope with the power costs just fine, just requires another thing to think about but I admit it is quite nice not to have to worry.

[Malakho]

[quote=Aidus;4541470]It is the traits I have to give up from the huntsman line, or ToF since I run BG. I like to Graceful Draw traited always, I find it a great way to help reduce threat while still contributing (if I goof up and generate to much threat).
/quote]

thats what sort of happened to me. My first hunter was S;S up till her entry into loth (which i did at 58). Hated how much I was missing, and realized at that point that I was already 4 deep in huntsman line (first toon, I just threw on the traits i thought sounded kewl). switched over to precision mostly for the added accuracy, and loved it. shooting in S:S feels very slow now. and Im always running out of focus :P

good to know that my favorite stance is also a good stance to be in!

[Aidus]

Meh, you can cope with the power costs just fine, just requires another thing to think about but I admit it is quite nice not to have to worry.

I think I may have gotten spoiled with my 3rd age bow...

- both power costs and both crits.

I have noticed my power disappear much more quickly since I picked up a 2nd age bow.

I miss the 3rd age most of the time.