Weaver need a range slow

[timmyloo22546]

That's fine. I don't doubt your experience. I have never dev critted against an equal level freep for anything near that high. Even when I ran with a full DPS build, the highest I ever hit npcs was 550ish....Real Freeps have better mits and were equal levels.

and you still are going off with your 250-600 hit...again...like many a freep defending the big guns on their side...(RK EC Dev crit or hunter Dev crits) not every hit of TK is a dev crit. To use the extreme highest possible damage as your baseline is egregious bias on your own part. I HAVE NEVER HIT AN NPC FOR 600 ON A DEV CRIT MUCH LESS A FREEP FOR THAT AMOUNT. PERIOD. I would bet my toon and delete it if that turned out to be incorrect, that's how certain I am of that fact.

don't you gain power not doing anything? (and health for that matter)

IDK what your ICPR is or what Tub's was...however I notice that Toxin alone doesn't really make a dent in the power pools of freeps I use it against. It only has any value w/a banner (thereby killing the regen of power), if the freep is low on power already it will keep them low (the ICPR seems to be enough to keep up with the drain, but not outpace), and for knocking burgs out of stealth after they've hips'd, or in conjunction with LP/Hatch


I could be mistaken, I thought is was a 40% slow. If I mis-stated, it wasn't intentional.

I guess it's not possible that a freep would already be OOC upon seeing a spider eh? Or that they would already be mounted up? Couldn't ever happen.

Well, nonmoronic freeps on BW have strats that can keep a creep incombat while others in the group can drop combat in order to mount up or use run buffs. When you grow up, you might sit at the adult table to learn this stuff.

a single burg and mez me and run away while I can't follow...it takes...WAHHH more than 1 creep to chase down a burg intent on getting away... man you are one emo little boy.

wahhhh...a guardian's sprint + their mitigation means I can chase them from grams to GV solo plinking away and they'd still make it unless I had the assistance of another creep....

Sorry, I fail to sympathize with your emo tantrum about 1 weaver being able to get away from a single freep. Most classes that are intent on getting away (freep or creep) from a single toon of the opposite faction can do so in most cases.

I'm sure I have some weaver centric bias...it's the primary class I've played since the game started. However, I do try to remain open as much as human nature allows. i try to be level and try to see things from the other side and expand my viewpoint.

however, your bias is just trying to shout down those who don't agree with you. You are biased and your bias makes you closeminded...and even more dangerous, you can't see your own bias.

Why would I possibly refer to crits vs lvl 40 toons? I don't have brandywhine or emolindimer logic.

I'll see if I can get the spider to take a SS for me of his ticks on freeps (lvl 65). Either way: 80power/3s over 1 minute...1,600 power/min. Other than a chmp/wrdn in stances (that already use a fair bit of power), i don't know any other class that has over 1400 icpr unbuffed (even high fate classes). So when the class is in combat with the power drain on...they are literally losing power even if they just stand there (while in combat). If you can't understand that 1,400icpr<1,600icpr, you might wanna go back to school, mommy shouldn't do all your work for you.

A single burg will mez you and run away and you can't follow it? Simply pot the mez and DoT it. Not only that...you never said it slowed you so you will have a 10% runspeed on it while keeping your DoT on it. You also fail to realize that the +10% runspeed is a full-time thing...the sprints you used in your example is a cooldown. The idiotic examples would definately come from a Brandywhine person tho.

The funnist part about all of this...I haven't defended the "big guns" on freep side. You are simply putting words in my mouth that aren't there. You are so bias that you imagine me saying things I never said and then claim I said them. As far as the whole tantrum and emo comments, I haven't made any/done anything until this post. Because you are experiencing the tantrums and emo activities yourself it would make sense that is what comes to your mind. O well tho, if you need help i'd gladly let ya be miserable instead and just laugh at you.



Notice how in a lil bit of playing I dev crit an npc for 657 damage with tainted kiss. Granted, I had the WL banner(+3%?), the 5% buff from isen (assuming it gives +% ranged damage. Some keeps are diff), and the reaver armour rend on CG...however, I was 16.5% dps from being full dps spec'd on the spider. So unless you build your spider around health AND power <which is totally stupid>, i'm not quite sure how you NEVER dev critted an npc for 550+.

[mikeakarobinhood]

emolindimer logic

That sounds nothing like Elendilmir.

[timmyloo22546]

We show bias because we've played them for over 2 years and understand how they work to the max, know their ups and downs, and know what we can and can't do.

Spiders are strong 1v1, yes. Small group? Quite powerful if ranked and played properly. Raid vs raid? More than 3 spiders hurts dps and healing. We're the CC class creepside but our CC is quite pathetic. That's why I lead raids on a spider. I can CC the target, do a small amount of dps, while target calling from range or melee if need be, and can slow the enemy to allow my raid to tactically retreat.

I agree the power drain is a good skill, but it is affected by mitigation VERY heavily. Pots and skills can give you power. Don't forget it roots you in place for 1.5s, just like LK. Have power problems? Get an LM to give you power. LM's can also power drain if they're out. So few actually do because they're too busy dpsing instead of wound curing or sharing power or debuffing.

It's funny how much complaining there was when spiders got the unbreakable root, but when they were nerfed into oblivion no-one really cared.

You actually think clearly so i'll respond. I agree that no more than 2-3 spiders per raid -- but the same goes for other classes. I wouldn't want more than 2-3 defilers per raid (i'd rather have an extra WL over a 3rd defiler). On freepside, I wouldn't want more than 2-3 wardens and no more than 3 burgs. The power drain is mitigated a bit (it is common mitigation tho...so much more for heavies than light, but heavies also tend to have less power) -- it can crit and cannot be resisted. <btw it does stack with warg power drain>. If a LM is draining power all it takes is for 1 BA to simply switch to the LM and no-you-don't it. Simple as that for 1 BA to stop the LM from power draining. I'm not saying that 1 spider skill by itself is over powered, just when you put all of them together they become powerful (not overpowered) -- but giving them more would put them over that line in my opinion.

[BrotherGab]

I'm not saying that 1 spider skill by itself is over powered, just when you put all of them together they become powerful (not overpowered) -- but giving them more would put them over that line in my opinion.

I agree with this, but don't you think spiders should get something nice at higher ranks? I mean, it's a spider. Not the hardest class to rank, but still quite a pain. As I suggested earlier, a change to WtE with a r10 advanced and a slow on LK at r11 would in no way be game-breaking, unless far too many people obtain it, which by that time freeps would (hopefully) be a lot stronger

Heed me, I want spiders to get some more things, but I want freeps buffed. Freeps are still the stronger raid vs raid atm, but book 6 was the greatest challenge of PvMP in my eyes for creeps, it kept the easymoders away and the hardcores in. WTB book 6 again plz. Just with more inf/ren in raids

[Perfectlotus]

Why would I possibly refer to crits vs lvl 40 toons? I don't have brandywhine or emolindimer logic.

I'll see if I can get the spider to take a SS for me of his ticks on freeps (lvl 65). Either way: 80power/3s over 1 minute...1,600 power/min. Other than a chmp/wrdn in stances (that already use a fair bit of power), i don't know any other class that has over 1400 icpr unbuffed (even high fate classes). So when the class is in combat with the power drain on...they are literally losing power even if they just stand there (while in combat). If you can't understand that 1,400icpr<1,600icpr, you might wanna go back to school, mommy shouldn't do all your work for you.

A single burg will mez you and run away and you can't follow it? Simply pot the mez and DoT it. Not only that...you never said it slowed you so you will have a 10% runspeed on it while keeping your DoT on it. You also fail to realize that the +10% runspeed is a full-time thing...the sprints you used in your example is a cooldown. The idiotic examples would definately come from a Brandywhine person tho.

The funnist part about all of this...I haven't defended the "big guns" on freep side. You are simply putting words in my mouth that aren't there. You are so bias that you imagine me saying things I never said and then claim I said them. As far as the whole tantrum and emo comments, I haven't made any/done anything until this post. Because you are experiencing the tantrums and emo activities yourself it would make sense that is what comes to your mind. O well tho, if you need help i'd gladly let ya be miserable instead and just laugh at you.

***picture***

Notice how in a lil bit of playing I dev crit an npc for 657 damage with tainted kiss. Granted, I had the WL banner(+3%?), the 5% buff from isen (assuming it gives +% ranged damage. Some keeps are diff), and the reaver armour rend on CG...however, I was 16.5% dps from being full dps spec'd on the spider. So unless you build your spider around health AND power <which is totally stupid>, i'm not quite sure how you NEVER dev critted an npc for 550+.

Ive never seen damage above around 550 either on my spider (or heard another spider get over 600) and thoose Ive seen have been on NPCs. Granted Im not pure damage built, but the poor damage trait we get is not worth it imo. Either way, isnt this a bit redicilous to argue about anyway? I mean it clearly shows how darn low DPS we have and thats the end of that discussion imo.

The powerdrain is what Nidor say it is. Its a useful skill against certain classes, but far to inferior to be any bother to most "power" classes. Best used togheter with hatchlings and Latent Poison too if you want some sort of powerdrain effect out of it (Toxin alone is usually to weak by itself even against thoose classes that are a bit vulnerable to it.)

Funny how you mention "just pot out of it", because thats what we spiders have to endure all the time. Not to mention all other skills some classes have or why not highlighting the cursed SoP:R? A spammable INCOMBAT brand given to the Loremasters friends and himself. Which leaves us with only our 5 min CD conjunction, a root and WtE left. Apart from the 5 second CJ, means people are free to pew pew away at their will while being under the immunity. Nope, our CC aint very strong.

A constant +10% runspeed is also almost a must if we want to effectively be able to use our CC with 60% of them being melee applied. Just as Freeps melee classes we spiders are also a melee class (or hybrid). We also needs to close the distance to our target or decrease it at times. Freep classes have sprints for this, well on our side we have a constant small sprint. I see nothing weird with this. I kinda like how we aint mirrors off each others. I also cant count all the times when Ive lost preys due to the sprints or when I wont be able to escape due to sprints. It certainly have its ups and downs having a constant +10% runspeed instead of a sprint. While in most pure combat situations the small constant runspeed is a nice little bonus to have, while in others you start to dream of that sprint

/Silkdawn

[NYSEguy1970]

Why would I possibly refer to crits vs lvl 40 toons? I don't have brandywhine or emolindimer logic.

I'll see if I can get the spider to take a SS for me of his ticks on freeps (lvl 65). Either way: 80power/3s over 1 minute...1,600 power/min. Other than a chmp/wrdn in stances (that already use a fair bit of power), i don't know any other class that has over 1400 icpr unbuffed (even high fate classes). So when the class is in combat with the power drain on...they are literally losing power even if they just stand there (while in combat). If you can't understand that 1,400icpr<1,600icpr, you might wanna go back to school, mommy shouldn't do all your work for you.

A single burg will mez you and run away and you can't follow it? Simply pot the mez and DoT it. Not only that...you never said it slowed you so you will have a 10% runspeed on it while keeping your DoT on it. You also fail to realize that the +10% runspeed is a full-time thing...the sprints you used in your example is a cooldown. The idiotic examples would definately come from a Brandywhine person tho.

The funnist part about all of this...I haven't defended the "big guns" on freep side. You are simply putting words in my mouth that aren't there. You are so bias that you imagine me saying things I never said and then claim I said them. As far as the whole tantrum and emo comments, I haven't made any/done anything until this post. Because you are experiencing the tantrums and emo activities yourself it would make sense that is what comes to your mind. O well tho, if you need help i'd gladly let ya be miserable instead and just laugh at you.



Notice how in a lil bit of playing I dev crit an npc for 657 damage with tainted kiss. Granted, I had the WL banner(+3%?), the 5% buff from isen (assuming it gives +% ranged damage. Some keeps are diff), and the reaver armour rend on CG...however, I was 16.5% dps from being full dps spec'd on the spider. So unless you build your spider around health AND power <which is totally stupid>, i'm not quite sure how you NEVER dev critted an npc for 550+.

I said in xs of 600...stop changing my numbers to suit your bias.

anyway,

Is this SS supposed to demonstrate you are op'd against NPCs?

Armor Rend, WL Banner, and Keep damage buff against an NPC..Once again you are taking an extreme example of the highest possible damage in a situation where nearly every damage buff and armor debuff was in place (another extreme situation) against a NPC.

You seriously think that using an extreme example of a Dev Crit and buffs/debuffs against an NPC serves as a valid comparison of a normal baseline fight against an equal level freep?

Ok, it makes sense. You are trying to defend NPCs against how OP'd a weaver is against them. My apologies, I thought we were talking about freeps and fights between a weaver and another player controlled avatar.

Next time I'm fighting slugs I'll take a look at my combat log so I can appreciate my toon's superiority and relative OP'd status against them. In that regard, I agree with you...against an NPC weavers could be considered OP. Your point has been made and heard. Thank you for allowing me to see that more clearly.

I never really considered the uphill fight NPCs had against player controlled toons. We all should be nerfed, because of OP'd crits against poor old Meldun and his other NPC bretheren.

[BrotherGab]

Save The Poor Little Dwarves!!!!

[NYSEguy1970]

Save The Poor Little Dwarves!!!!

little dwarves is redundant

[CQ-Reborn]

little dwarves is redundant

Oh, I see. So it would be like saying overpowered weaver? Or whiny creep?

[timmyloo22546]

I said in xs of 600...stop changing my numbers to suit your bias.

My apologies. You said mid 500s previously (which I just put as 550ish), althought i went back and you did say 600 one time.

Is this SS supposed to demonstrate you are op'd against NPCs?

I HAVE NEVER HIT AN NPC FOR 600 ON A DEV CRIT MUCH LESS A FREEP FOR THAT AMOUNT. PERIOD. I would bet my toon and delete it if that turned out to be incorrect, that's how certain I am of that fact.

What it demonstrates is how I can be 16.5% damage shy of full dps build and achieve 600+ damage on a dev crit...showing how horrifying your statements are saying you never achieved that even when full damage spec'd whether on an npc or not...and this was just like 1hr of playing around, it wasn't even days or weeks of playing:

So from that log....

125 pts of Acid from the TK dot (Line 1 and working down)
270 pts of Acid from an initial TK application
80 pts of Power damage from Toxin
125 pts from the TK dot
120 pts to power from a Tox Dot crit
125 pts TK Dot
72 pts from my auto attack
.

Right now I am logged in and have Health for Power 1&2 traited as well as Health for Damage 1&2 traited. (other 2 slots are open for sake of argument). The build is now considered a full health build with the least (competent person playing) possible damage. Initial is 368, tick is 171.

No (competent) mid-high ranked spider is going have LESS damage than that, right? If it would, it would likely trait power for damage <--and if a spider does that they might as well just delete their toon IMO.

So...while being traited full health (and not traited for any damage): That freep would of had almost 27% acid mitigation which I hope everyone can agree on is HIGH for a freep. If you have any damage for power or damage for health traited...the mitigation would actually be slightly higher for that freep. You seem to show lowest damage build vs highest mitigation freep out in the Moors. I'd call that an extreme and bias screenshot if wanting to prove your point.

Im curious tho...what corruptions do you slot?

[timmyloo22546]

Either way, isnt this a bit redicilous to argue about anyway? I mean it clearly shows how darn low DPS we have and thats the end of that discussion imo.

It isn't a bit ridiculous to argue about. The initial debate is that weavers should get a ranged slow: and part of deciding that should be how much dps they have, how much CC, what type of skills/abilities they already have: and how would adding the slow change the spider's ability/capability. What it shows it that the low DPS is fine where it is at for a spider...not underpowered or overpowered. Unfortunately a spider wanted to talk specifically about damage and then it made some absurd statements and i figured i'd hop on my R3 and 4 spiders to check some things out and call out the absurdities.

The powerdrain is what Nidor say it is. Its a useful skill against certain classes, but far to inferior to be any bother to most "power" classes. Best used togheter with hatchlings and Latent Poison too if you want some sort of powerdrain effect out of it (Toxin alone is usually to weak by itself even against thoose classes that are a bit vulnerable to it..

I'd say you are far off in saying it is inferior when used on "power" classes. It isn't the best skill in every situation -- but in many situations it is far from inferior even when used on "power" classes. I'd call into question tactics/skill before listening to what Nidor says.

Funny how you mention "just pot out of it", because thats what we spiders have to endure all the time. Not to mention all other skills some classes have or why not highlighting the cursed SoP:R? A spammable INCOMBAT brand given to the Loremasters friends and himself. Which leaves us with only our 5 min CD conjunction, a root and WtE left. Apart from the 5 second CJ, means people are free to pew pew away at their will while being under the immunity. Nope, our CC aint very strong.

Because you only fight LMs out in the Moors or only fight people in LMs group that keep SoP:R up 100% of the time? *rolls eyes* Again...you are picking situations to fit your needs and apparently trying to say that is the only situation out in the Moors... Guess what: LMs run around with SoP:R all the time and still get wrecked in 5 seconds by wargs because the LM got CJ'd -- kinda ironic how the class that supposedly has this godmode CC immunity gets wrecked in 5 seconds by...CC!

A constant +10% runspeed is...

I am not sure what you are trying to point out. It sounds like you are saying spider runspeed is fine where it is at given the current skillset, which I agree.

I agree with this, but don't you think spiders should get something nice at higher ranks? I mean, it's a spider. Not the hardest class to rank, but still quite a pain. As I suggested earlier, a change to WtE with a r10 advanced and a slow on LK at r11 would in no way be game-breaking, unless far too many people obtain it, which by that time freeps would (hopefully) be a lot stronger

Heed me, I want spiders to get some more things, but I want freeps buffed. Freeps are still the stronger raid vs raid atm, but book 6 was the greatest challenge of PvMP in my eyes for creeps, it kept the easymoders away and the hardcores in. WTB book 6 again plz. Just with more inf/ren in raids

Maybe...i forgot what your suggestions were to the changes At least if you played a class that is OP, you could admit it. I am doubting the other spiders meet your skill level tho so thats why. I'll go with sure, you can have the R10 advanced skill and R11 assuming freeps will be slightly buffed by then.

[Notaforumguy007]

i need to know if people are still actually debating weavers should get a range slow (which they shouldn't) or if the thread has been derailed to some other topic around weavers...

[Perfectlotus]

It isn't a bit ridiculous to argue about. The initial debate is that weavers should get a ranged slow: and part of deciding that should be how much dps they have, how much CC, what type of skills/abilities they already have: and how would adding the slow change the spider's ability/capability. What it shows it that the low DPS is fine where it is at for a spider...not underpowered or overpowered. Unfortunately a spider wanted to talk specifically about damage and then it made some absurd statements and i figured i'd hop on my R3 and 4 spiders to check some things out and call out the absurdities.

With another absurdity?

No, I still stick with Nidor on this even if I saw that little nice dev crit. I wanna see some normal Freep combat log with a crit like that first. Thoose times Ive checked my crits Ive been down in the delving shooting NPCs and I cant recall the exact numbers but Ive never seen a tripple number starting with a 6 and never heard anyone else seen it either.

I think we have already derailed away from the initial topic, but I think we all agreed it was an unfortunate topic name that should have stated WANT instead of NEED.

I'd say you are far off in saying it is inferior when used on "power" classes. It isn't the best skill in every situation -- but in many situations it is far from inferior even when used on "power" classes. I'd call into question tactics/skill before listening to what Nidor says.

Ive been having solo fights with powerclasses and apart from a RK, who wont even bother about power, since his enemies or him will be dead within 30 seconds top anyway, Ive never been able to drain one in under 2 mins, by this time someone is usually dead either way. Really long fights are usually with Minis forced into healingmode. Thoose fights can last up to 3-4 mins sometimes. Makes me really wonder if I should bother with the powerdrain at all and just go more damage instead?

I dont deny its usefullness, it is usefull, but not so much on certain classes and theres absolutly nothing gamebreaking with the weak Toxin we have. It would be a killer if it was stackable however and I would probably argue WITH the Freeps in that case or at least stay very very silent in the arguments

Because you only fight LMs out in the Moors or only fight people in LMs group that keep SoP:R up 100% of the time? *rolls eyes* Again...you are picking situations to fit your needs and apparently trying to say that is the only situation out in the Moors... Guess what: LMs run around with SoP:R all the time and still get wrecked in 5 seconds by wargs because the LM got CJ'd -- kinda ironic how the class that supposedly has this godmode CC immunity gets wrecked in 5 seconds by...CC!

I dont buy that argument. When comparing sides you gonna have to watch the whole spectra and not just exclude things just because its convenient. Also you wonder why this LM will get CJed? Because thats the only thing we can do against one whos immune to the rest of the CC or doesnt bother about a root or slow (which a LM rarely do.)

Theres a reason why LMs dies before Healers in my attacks at least and I believe the Wargs feel the same way. This if anything should be an indication that the Creep side gives LMs more credit then they give themselfs. If we considered them weak they wouldnt be such high priority targets now would they?

I am not sure what you are trying to point out. It sounds like you are saying spider runspeed is fine where it is at given the current skillset, which I agree.

Yup think we can agree on this, but you made it sound like +10% was superior to a sprint. Which it isnt in a flee or chase situation.

/Silkdawn

[Perfectlotus]

i need to know if people are still actually debating weavers should get a range slow (which they shouldn't) or if the thread has been derailed to some other topic around weavers...

Derailed and we have all already made our points about it being something nice and something to dream about, but not needed as far as Ive followed the thread.

/Silkdawn

[BrotherGab]

Maybe...i forgot what your suggestions were to the changes At least if you played a class that is OP, you could admit it. I am doubting the other spiders meet your skill level tho so thats why. I'll go with sure, you can have the R10 advanced skill and R11 assuming freeps will be slightly buffed by then.

R11:TK gets a 15% slow added, lasts 10s, curable via poison.
R10:Enhanced Skill: Poison the Earth. Changes Web The Earth to the following:

Slow reduced to 25%. 2s induction added. Adds a 200 acid dot every 3s for 15s to all enemies in the radius.

[gloinfast]

Why would I possibly refer to crits vs lvl 40 toons? I don't have brandywhine or emolindimer logic.

I'll see if I can get the spider to take a SS for me of his ticks on freeps (lvl 65). Either way: 80power/3s over 1 minute...1,600 power/min. Other than a chmp/wrdn in stances (that already use a fair bit of power), i don't know any other class that has over 1400 icpr unbuffed (even high fate classes). So when the class is in combat with the power drain on...they are literally losing power even if they just stand there (while in combat). If you can't understand that 1,400icpr<1,600icpr, you might wanna go back to school, mommy shouldn't do all your work for you.

A single burg will mez you and run away and you can't follow it? Simply pot the mez and DoT it. Not only that...you never said it slowed you so you will have a 10% runspeed on it while keeping your DoT on it. You also fail to realize that the +10% runspeed is a full-time thing...the sprints you used in your example is a cooldown. The idiotic examples would definately come from a Brandywhine person tho.

The funnist part about all of this...I haven't defended the "big guns" on freep side. You are simply putting words in my mouth that aren't there. You are so bias that you imagine me saying things I never said and then claim I said them. As far as the whole tantrum and emo comments, I haven't made any/done anything until this post. Because you are experiencing the tantrums and emo activities yourself it would make sense that is what comes to your mind. O well tho, if you need help i'd gladly let ya be miserable instead and just laugh at you.



Notice how in a lil bit of playing I dev crit an npc for 657 damage with tainted kiss. Granted, I had the WL banner(+3%?), the 5% buff from isen (assuming it gives +% ranged damage. Some keeps are diff), and the reaver armour rend on CG...however, I was 16.5% dps from being full dps spec'd on the spider. So unless you build your spider around health AND power <which is totally stupid>, i'm not quite sure how you NEVER dev critted an npc for 550+.

LOL at all the E-thug **** you posted here, get out of here you trash, Nidor is over 9000% of the player and guy you'd ever hope to be

[NYSEguy1970]

My apologies. You said mid 500s previously (which I just put as 550ish), althought i went back and you did say 600 one time.

yes, you are right because the highest I've ever hit an NPC for is 550ish and I've said that a few times, and I said I've never hit for above that (6XX). That would have been against an sub 65 npc (but while solo so no other debuffs like armor rend and such that you had with the CG.) However, again I fail to see how dev crits against an NPC has any relevance against what one's normal damage is when fighting a freep, who would have better mits, better crit protection (being and presuming equal level) and the wherewithal to remove debuffs if they could. (i think armor rend is a wound?) Anyway, I'm talking about a fighting and damage w/o the consideration of outside debuffs and buffs that other characters contribute. If you start to bring that into the picture, then you could bring in things like WL buffs as well as Cappy buffs and so forth...which then begin to distort the picture IMO.

A weaver can't armor rend, therefore that shouldn't be a part of the consideration (from my viewpoint) just like a burg can't have a Morale buff that a cappy could bestow (if they can do such a thing, i only am using it as an illustration).

What it demonstrates is how I can be 16.5% damage shy of full dps build and achieve 600+ damage on a dev crit...showing how horrifying your statements are saying you never achieved that even when full damage spec'd whether on an npc or not...and this was just like 1hr of playing around, it wasn't even days or weeks of playing:

what's horrifying is you are achieving what you say against an NPC w/the deck stacked as much in your favor w/OUTSIDE modifications to that NPC that you as a weaver couldn't bring to the table on your own (armor rend) and calling that a good proxy for what would typify a fight w/a freep. IMO that's being disingenuous at the very least. IMO you are comparing apples to oranges. Let me see a combat log where you are fighting an equal level freep and you hit for over 600 with any semblance of regularity without any debuffs that you yourself didn't bring to the fight. Your 600 is not a regular hit. It's predicated on some very specific precursors to maximize that dev against an unthinking foe.

Right now I am logged in and have Health for Power 1&2 traited as well as Health for Damage 1&2 traited. (other 2 slots are open for sake of argument). The build is now considered a full health build with the least (competent person playing) possible damage. Initial is 368, tick is 171.

My initial on TK is 383/178 Dot

No (competent) mid-high ranked spider is going have LESS damage than that, right? If it would, it would likely trait power for damage <--and if a spider does that they might as well just delete their toon IMO.

So...while being traited full health (and not traited for any damage): That freep would of had almost 27% acid mitigation which I hope everyone can agree on is HIGH for a freep. If you have any damage for power or damage for health traited...the mitigation would actually be slightly higher for that freep. You seem to show lowest damage build vs highest mitigation freep out in the Moors. I'd call that an extreme and bias screenshot if wanting to prove your point.

Like I said, I don't know that Tub's gear is. If 27% or whatever his acid mit is, is considered high, then again it wasn't intentionally chosen for that fact. It's entirely possible he's built for spider fighting because he went for high acid mit. I don't play freep so i don't know that aspect, only from what I see on the creep side of the combat logs.

Also, you are wrong again in you assumptions. I actually have a higher Damage build than you, based on what you quoted your Initial/DOT on tk...so I'm not showing a screenshot of the "Lowest damage build vs highest mitigation freep out in the moors" Therefore that is not a biased screenshot trying to prove my point, but actually once again demonstrates your extreme bias in trying to tear down what I've provided as proof, only for you to be wrong again.

You stated my bias showed (before i provided the screen shot) that a 90 Tox tic was essentially a lowball amount that you doubted but was gracious enough to accept...and it turned out that I had overstated that by 10 points and you were wrong.

My bias apparently showed in a low TK dot and initial damage from my memory that I stated, and again, you were proven wrong because once again I overstated my damage from my memories of that fight and turned out I did less initial damage and less on the dot than I had stated.

you stated that my bias showed because I was purposely showing the lowest health build possible and most gimped damage build possible, and once again you were proven wrong because from the figures you provided, i have a slightly higher damage on my initial and dot than your build (if that is your regular build, IDK).

Each time you have tried to call me out on my bias, it's actually you who has reinforced your own extreme bias over and over. You have been wrong on all of these accounts and frankly I have no confidence in anything you say as any sort of credible observer any longer.

Im curious tho...what corruptions do you slot?

I'm fine with satisfying your curiosity...even though you may no doubt claim that it also shows my extreme bias.

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Stealth Detect

I have 7311 Morale and I notice quite a few of the higher ranked weavers on BW run w/the same health, so I presume this is one of the more popular build setups on BW.

[timmyloo22546]

LOL at all the E-thug **** you posted here, get out of here you trash, Nidor is over 9000% of the player and guy you'd ever hope to be

You fail. Enough said.

yes, you are right because the highest I've ever hit an NPC for is 550ish and I've said that a few times, and I said I've never hit for above that (6XX). That would have been against an sub 65 npc (but while solo so no other debuffs like armor rend and such that you had with the CG.) However, again I fail to see how dev crits against an NPC has any relevance against what one's normal damage is when fighting a freep, who would have better mits, better crit protection (being and presuming equal level) and the wherewithal to remove debuffs if they could. (i think armor rend is a wound?) Anyway, I'm talking about a fighting and damage w/o the consideration of outside debuffs and buffs that other characters contribute. If you start to bring that into the picture, then you could bring in things like WL buffs as well as Cappy buffs and so forth...which then begin to distort the picture IMO

I never said critting against an npc was relevant to damage that you'd do to a freep. One of the spiders brought up the damage that they were never able to achieve (including on npcs). My screenshot was simply to show it was easy to achieve...i'll elaborate more further down.

On a level 65 captain my initial TK was 362 (was removed from a hunter right away at EC). On a lvl 65 LM, my initial TK was 383, the tick was 178 on the LM. This was full damage spec'd on my spider and R3. So from the spider's screenshot against Tub to the numbers I just provided (I do have a SS but it isn't worth time to upload it), the difference is a fair amount.

A weaver can't armor rend, therefore that shouldn't be a part of the consideration (from my viewpoint) just like a burg can't have a Morale buff that a cappy could bestow (if they can do such a thing, i only am using it as an illustration).

Well...when people say they've never hit that high, on anything. PERIOD. <--I interpret that "PERIOD" as including any and all buffs available. Why else would a person include that?

what's horrifying is you are achieving what you say against an NPC w/the deck stacked as much in your favor w/OUTSIDE modifications to that NPC that you as a weaver couldn't bring to the table on your own (armor rend) and calling that a good proxy for what would typify a fight w/a freep. IMO that's being disingenuous at the very least. IMO you are comparing apples to oranges. Let me see a combat log where you are fighting an equal level freep and you hit for over 600 with any semblance of regularity without any debuffs that you yourself didn't bring to the fight. Your 600 is not a regular hit. It's predicated on some very specific precursors to maximize that dev against an unthinking foe.

Again, I never called it a good proxy for npc damage = freep damage. It was simply to point out how you've never hit anything that high PERIOD, and how I could in one night. I'll play my spider tomorrow if I get time and try n sit back and just TK stuff so I can actually SS my combat log other than the 3 damge numbers I gave above. I've been critting lvl 65s for 500+ on initial TK (not being a dev crit). When I come across a starefest i'll take a SS of my combat log when I get around to it.

Also, you are wrong again in you assumptions. I actually have a higher Damage build than you, based on what you quoted your Initial/DOT on tk...so I'm not showing a screenshot of the "Lowest damage build vs highest mitigation freep out in the moors" Therefore that is not a biased screenshot trying to prove my point, but actually once again demonstrates your extreme bias in trying to tear down what I've provided as proof, only for you to be wrong again. .

I said for "sake of argument." If you don't understand the difference that isn't my fault. Your whole point just became invalid in terms of my bias.

You stated my bias showed (before i provided the screen shot) that a 90 Tox tic was essentially a lowball amount that you doubted but was gracious enough to accept...and it turned out that I had overstated that by 10 points and you were wrong.

Well to answer that, i'd have to know the class. The power drain is common mitigation. Heavies will mitigate 10-15% more than light and medium armour wearers. And then on top of that, your lower dps spider build factors into that.

i have a slightly higher damage on my initial and dot than your build (if that is your regular build, IDK).

Each time you have tried to call me out on my bias, it's actually you who has reinforced your own extreme bias over and over. You have been wrong on all of these accounts and frankly I have no confidence in anything you say as any sort of credible observer any longer.
.

Maybe if you stop interchanging words or phrases that don't mean the same thing and stop trying to say I said things I never said, you might make more sense of the argument.

I'm fine with satisfying your curiosity...even though you may no doubt claim that it also shows my extreme bias.

H4P1
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Stealth Detect

I have 7311 Morale and I notice quite a few of the higher ranked weavers on BW run w/the same health, so I presume this is one of the more popular build setups on BW.

Nice to know. It is pretty close to what I expected. Although I can't say I noticed 1 spider running with a full morale build today on the server I was on. I also hit R4 on my spider last night so I can get the power drain numbers as well.

[timmyloo22546]

R11:TK gets a 15% slow added, lasts 10s, curable via poison.
R10:Enhanced Skill: Poison the Earth. Changes Web The Earth to the following:

Slow reduced to 25%. 2s induction added. Adds a 200 acid dot every 3s for 15s to all enemies in the radius.

Sure. R11 would kinda just be like a passive uprade, right? Are the enhanced skills the one that require a class trait? Been so long since I messed with buying and traiting high ranked skills.

P.S. Your idea is completely burried and no one will ever know about it. Hahahaha

[BrotherGab]

Sure. R11 would kinda just be like a passive uprade, right? Are the enhanced skills the one that require a class trait? Been so long since I messed with buying and traiting high ranked skills.

P.S. Your idea is completely burried and no one will ever know about it. Hahahaha

Nope. Both require class traits. That's how it works, the r11, r14 and r15 upgrades require a class trait slot. Same with Enhanced skill. It's an upgrade that requires a trait.

[gloinfast]

Nope. Both require class traits. That's how it works, the r11, r14 and r15 upgrades require a class trait slot. Same with Enhanced skill. It's an upgrade that requires a trait.

that poison of the earth is better than a flippin firetrap...

and once you hit r11 I will no longer be sparring you

[Perfectlotus]

that poison of the earth is better than a flippin firetrap...

and once you hit r11 I will no longer be sparring you

Just what we needed a f*cking Dwarf in the thread!

/Silkdawn

[BrotherGab]

that poison of the earth is better than a flippin firetrap...

and once you hit r11 I will no longer be sparring you

250 every 3s for 15s is not as good as 200 every 2s for 30s.