Lifetime Account Members Thread

[Needle]

As a lifer, I like this move that Turbine is doing. This is especially good for family and friends that want to try it out and play with us. If they stay and want to upgrade in the future, they can.

I have friends that play who would like to get some family members their own accounts, so they can play together; but they can't afford it. Now they will be able to. If they need access to higher areas eventually, that can be handled as needed.

I used to hate in game stores; but over the past few years, I've come to appreciate them (although I don't use them). For example...when WoW created that new mount a few months back, it costs $25 to get it in game. They made millions the first day. I was shocked that so many players would spend real money just to get a new mount. But they will do just that. Heh....I pre-ordered Mirkwood just for the bonuses and the goat. These gaming companies know their customers better than we know ourselves sometimes.

If this will help keep LOTRO going in the long run...I'm all for it.

And...this means I'll be able to play with my paying friends along with their family members who couldn't afford to play before. More fun.

[Raven_SB]

This post is more a feedback post to Turbine then an entry into the free to pay debate. I'll save you all lot of reading just by saying I don't like f2p MMO's, and I wont be sticking around for this one.

Maybe later on I'll be able to put down in words what it is about this announcement that I don't like, but I can't at the moment. All I can say is that the moment I'm not happy with this decision by Turbine, and I'm moving on to other games.

I'm sure Turbine will do very well out of it, and if it works the way the DDO f2p system works, then I'm sure the game will thrive, financally anyway. This is going to be a cash cow for Turbine and WB and that the end of the day that's what matters to them.

l I wish them all the very best, and I hope that those who stay on or who join in the community when f2p goes live has as much fun as I had with the game under the old system.

[gildhur]

As a lifer, I like this move that Turbine is doing. This is especially good for family and friends that want to try it out and play with us. If they stay and want to upgrade in the future, they can.

I have friends that play who would like to get some family members their own accounts, so they can play together; but they can't afford it. Now they will be able to. If they need access to higher areas eventually, that can be handled as needed.

I used to hate in game stores; but over the past few years, I've come to appreciate them (although I don't use them). For example...when WoW created that new mount a few months back, it costs $25 to get it in game. They made millions the first day. I was shocked that so many players would spend real money just to get a new mount. But they will do just that. Heh....I pre-ordered Mirkwood just for the bonuses and the goat. These gaming companies know their customers better than we know ourselves sometimes.

If this will help keep LOTRO going in the long run...I'm all for it.

And...this means I'll be able to play with my paying friends along with their family members couldn't afford to play before. More fun.

Your level-headed optimism is not welcome here! This thread is only for uninformed, irrational wailing and gnashing of teeth!

See?

Maybe later on I'll be able to put down in words what it is about this announcement that I don't like, but I can't at the moment. All I can say is that the moment I'm not happy with this decision by Turbine, and I'm moving on to other games.

[Ryinnik]

If this will help keep LOTRO going in the long run...I'm all for it.

Meh this is still the line that continues to irk me. LOTRO was still going in the long run. It was still on the up trend. It didn't need a new business model - the old one was working just fine.

That is why I am upset that it will join the list of F2P games I will not frequent. If this had been a last ditch effort to save this game like it was for DDO then I would have no issue. But it was not.

[imptown]

simple enough--give refunds (or a pro-rated amount) to those who wish it or let them sell their accounts to those posting in the "Give the loyal another opportunity to buy Lifetime memberships!" thread.

lifetime subscriber, very casual, sometimes infrequent, player of this and a few other MMORPGs.

i don't want the extra casual items and points that some of you are hankering for (just like i don't want that new fancy mount in one of the other MMORPGs i play). i'm a basic player, happy to bounce around a few games.

so why would i want to pay for a game i can play for free?

i'd be perfectly happy to putter along with the basic treatment in a free game, rather than pay for extras. i NEVER would have paid for a lifetime subscription had i known this was going to take place.

so, why not make us even--then see if i want to pay for more?

[carlosjuero]

Reminds me of Ghostbusters.. "What he means is Old Testament, real wrath of god type stuff, fire and brimstone coming out of the sky! Rivers and seas boiling! Earthquakes, tornados! The dead rising from the grave! Human sacrifice, dogs and cats, living together.... mass hysteria!"

That was my inspiration - I love that movie quote.

[Brandon_Blackbird]

I have a small kinship because I wanted the house. How does this affect my small kin and my house?

It won't affect it at all.

so, why not make us even--then see if i want to pay for more?

Because now you're getting everything for free what everyone else (sans lifers) has to pay for and on top of that, you're getting paid turbine points just for being here.

Do you really want the account restrictions that a free account has?

[crazyaddict]

What I find most interesting is how some of the "fanbois" are reacting to all this. I remember when the adventure pack first came out, there were comparisons of the pack to MT. Some of the "fanbois" responded in outrage claiming it would never happen and that they would quit if it ever came to this. But now they're defending F2P/MT. Kind of strange how the same people who were arguing with you just a few months ago does a 180 turn and is now on the same side.

(BTW, I'm a fan, but not a fanboi. My views don't change in sync with whatever Turbine does.)

[Cerion]

As a Lifer, I'm happy about this. I'll even go so far as to say if this is successful for Turbine, and they offer much more land to explore (all of Mirkwood for example), even if it had few quests, I'd pay extra points for it.

In fact, would it be possible to say, open up regions without quests for say a few hundred points, and then later add quests for a few hundred more points.

[Ryinnik]

Do you really want the account restrictions that a free account has?

I would GLADLY take the free account restrictions and have my lifetime account be refunded and annulled. I have played other F2P MMOs. For me grinding the system to get things for free becomes the game in F2P - now I am stuck in gameplay I don't like (spending free TP at the store) in the atmosphere I don't like (F2P MMOs in general). So it is an easy choice not to play.

Sucks I bought my lifetime account this year.

[XrioT]

Honestly, this looks like it'll be saving me more money. I got my lifetime account at release, so it's definitely payed itself off by now. And now since I'm getting a free 500 points every month, I should never even need to pay real money for any "expansions." I'll just buy new Adventure Packs (or whatever they're going to be called in LOTRO) as they're released.

The DDO store has been handled extremely well, imo (well, outside of some horribly overpriced items. But these are new items, wouldn't surprise me to see a price drop in the future).

/QFE - I just recently started playing DDO despite being a Lifetime LOTRO subscriber and the store is exactly what they said, "just convenience items". Nothing to worry about at all. Probably scrolls, health potions, weaksauce items that only fill the gap between whats available in an Auction house versus on the NPC vendors.

I am also looking forward to an increase in the number of players in the game. My interest diminished quite a bit between Moria and Now, and every time I try to login and play its been a bit of a boring ghost town - so I welcome as many new players as we can muster, and free stuff for a "Lifetime" sounds good to me

X

[Needle]

Your level-headed optimism is not welcome here! This thread is only for uninformed, irrational wailing and gnashing of teeth!

See?

DOH! I broke the rule of internet posting! *pouts* I'm sorry.

lol

For those that may not understand why some of us say "in the long run" while LOTRO is still doing just fine...it's this (IMHO).

(I spent a few years in management. Although I'm glad I'm not doing that anymore, it was an eye opener)

"In the long run" doesn't mean this year or next year, or even the following year. It doesn't matter how the game is doing now or the near future. They have to plan 5 to 10 years out. During that time, many of us won't be here anymore. Many of us will. But, they must constantly strive to find new customers and grow or else become stagnant and die.

Things change. The gaming community's age bracket changes. The way people think changes. What people want, and what they're willing to do to get it changes. The whole business model of gaming changes.

MMOs 10 years ago vs today are different. Today, many players desire the flashy loot. They want "stuff". In the past, many players wanted the satisfaction of achievement. LOTRO seems to attract the 'achievement' crowd, and I like that. But...in 5 to 10 years, will the gaming community be overrun by the materialistic "must have l33t stuff" crowd? Very possibly.

From a business standpoint, Turbine is going to have to try and plan to be ready for that. They have employees that have families to feed. That means the company needs to stay profitable and be willing to change for the future.

In the asian community of gaming, F2P with in-game stores has proven to be a multi-billion dollar industry. Very profitable. That business model is starting to prove itself here in the US. It's here to stay whether we like it or not.

I play many F2P games. I ignore the store advertisements, and I ignore the idiots, and I focus on the fun. It's not hard to do.

[Ryinnik]

I play many F2P games. I ignore the store advertisements, and I ignore the idiots, and I focus on the fun. It's not hard to do.

You are right. It is NOT hard to do.

If you want to. Personally I shopped long and hard so I didn't HAVE to. I pay my money and spend my entertainment hours in a manner that is entertaining to me, in the environment I carefully chose. That is why I so disappointed that LOTRO is changing like this.

[imptown]

It won't affect it at all.



Because now you're getting everything for free what everyone else (sans lifers) has to pay for and on top of that, you're getting paid turbine points just for being here.

Do you really want the account restrictions that a free account has?

precisely, yes.

after being made even, i want to be treated exactly like one of the free accounts.

it will then be my decision to pay for more or not, based on what i feel the game has to offer.

as things stand now, i was not given a choice.

[Voxin]

I am a lifetime member and a founder. Had LotRO started as a F2P, I would be neither. I don't like the F2P model, and I never will. I don't care what exciting things they offer in the store or how many Turbine points they want to bribe me with so I can get those items free. I won't use the store for the same reason I have never participated in the MyLotro lotteries.

The whole point of playing a game is to earn what you get by (gasp) playing the game. And that includes both fluff and game items. Gaining those items should not be the result of outside resources, and it especially should not be due to the fact that you have a few extra bucks you can waste on in-game items. While an occasional reward (example, some kind of veteran's reward) may be tolerable, as a built-in mechanic flooding the game with items people are getting outside of playing the game, I find it extremely objectionable. I see no difference between this concept and buying gold except for the extent of what you can buy. And, eventually, if there is enough profit to be made, anything can be justified.

That doesn't mean F2P is not a valid model. If you want to play a F2P game, more power to you. People do a lot of things I don't particularly like, and that is their choice. That doesn't, however, mean that I have to participate in it. So all you who are defending this change and putting down anyone who objects need to get over yourselves. This is a matter of fundamental principles of game design, and just because you don't have a problem with it doesn't mean that there are not legitimate objections to the concept as a whole. You are not obligated to agree with the opposing point of view, but neither do we have to accept your assumption that the two approaches can coexist (in the same game) just because it doesn't bother you.

Conversely, to those lifers saying they have been cheated or that they would sue. Sorry. That doesn't fly. Turbine has every right to change the game to a F2P. The EULA and TOS guarantee them the right to change it however they want. And the only thing we purchased with the lifetime subscription is a guarantee that we can login and play what we have paid for (e.g., Moria if you purchased the Moria expansion) as long as the servers are running. As long as we can continue logging in after the change, they have fulfilled their end of the lifetime agreement, and we will be able to do that.

On the other hand, the whole free-market argument cuts both ways. Yes, Turbine has the right to make money from the game. Yes, Turbine has the right to give more to those who pay more. On the other hand, as a subscriber, I don't have to continue paying them money. Even as a lifetime member, I don't have to pay them for any more expansions or premium services nor ever log into their game again. Neither do I have to consider any future Turbine games. As a matter of fact, I won't be doing any of those.

Well, actually, I will be logging in tonight to say goodbye to all my kinmates. However, when I log out again, I will be canceling my subscription even though it is a lifetime membership. I purchased it because I figured I could come and go as I please. However, this is a change I have zero tolerance for. As I said, had LotRO started as a F2P, I would never have played it to begin with, so after the change, I will never be coming back. And since they are making the change, I have no desire to play the game from now until they do. Besides, when people started suggesting this was coming, I stated at the time that I would not play the game if they did, and I am a man of my word. Since my lifetime membership broke even in February 2008, I don't regret buying it. But at this point, it is worthless to me since I will never play LotRO, nor any Turbine game, again.

Do I think losing my subscription means anything to them? No. They clearly had this in mind for a long time despite the propaganda they spewed when DDO went F2P and they tried to play it off when people raised the specter they would do it here. And they heard the objections from the community at the time, and they chose to ignore them. So they clearly don't care how many subscriptions they lose. They obviously think they will make up for it with F2P micro-transactions, and they made a business decision to go ahead with it. So, no, I don't think my canceling my subscription will change this one bit.

On the other hand, I am simply making a business (or, more accurately, a free-market) decision myself. They have chosen to go the micro-transaction route, and I am choosing not to play a game with that mechanic in it. This is not the first time I have made this choice. I came to LotRO from EQ2, and one of the reasons I bought a Lifetime subscription here is that it would allow me to leave this game whenever I wanted and go back to EQ2 (or play some other game) periodically. But the moment EQ2 added microtransactions was the moment I decided I would never go back to EQ2 nor play any other SOE game. This won't be the last time I make this decision either. I have been looking forward to The Old Republic. If they go the microtransaction route, I will not play that game either. So just like Turbine, I have made a free-market decision regarding F2P and microtransactions. I will not play any game that goes either route. Do I think they care? No. But neither will they get my money, and if all MMOs go this route, I will give up on the genre.

Here is a little food for thought for those of you defending this change or deciding to take a wait-and-see approach. There was a lot of speculation that the DDO change to F2P delayed content updates for LotRO. People rightly shot that idea down as they are different games with different development staffs. You cannot make that argument here. Clearly, it is fairly safe to assume that the promised content updates have been delayed, not due to the fact that they are trying to get them right, but, rather, because of the need to prepare for the upcoming F2P changes. After all, the LotRO content development staff are clearly going to be involved in the LotRO F2P content changes and even if they were not, any content development before this change would have to be designed to be compatible with the upcoming change. So there is little doubt that the reason the content updates have been non-existent of late is that this change took priority.

Granted, they are not be obligated to provide those free content updates any more than they are obligated to keep the game from going F2P. But people have been clearly and loudly complaining about the lack of content updates since SOA. I really don't recall a loud outcry for F2P mechanics. And since a large portion of F2P people never make it to the later stages of the game while content updates are by and large directed more towards people already in the game, one has to wonder what this says about their customer retention priorities. You might want to think about that before going on about how good this is for the game.

Oh, and when they tell you how that is nothing to worry about, remember they told us the same thing when people speculated that DDO going F2P was an omen for LotRO going the same route.

At any rate, I don't care anymore at this point. This announcement means that I have lost any interest in participating in this game or any future Turbine product, and I am taking action I feel appropriate to that decision. Good luck and goodbye.

[Sssnapdragon]

I'm torn on the subject. But I bought the lifetime membership and more than used my money's worth. If I don't enjoy the game after the F2P stuff goes live, I'll probably just taper off playing until I realize I never log in anymore.

But I won't make any judgments until I've played it, tried it, given it a chance. There is no point in getting upset about it now, because maybe I will absolutely love it. Then I would feel really silly if I had made a bunch of angry posts on the forums

[Ryinnik]

I am a...

Best written and articulated post I have read today (definitely including my own :-P). Well done you, Sir. See you around in non F2P games and wish you the best.

[GregJL]

Okay folks, please keep it civil..

Why start something new at this point?

[Raath]

Best written and articulated post I have read today (definitely including my own :-P). Well done you, Sir. See you around in non F2P games and wish you the best.

Agreed.

Excellent post, Voxin.

Good luck to you.

[carlosjuero]

While I do not agree with you Voxin, and I am sorry to see a LotRO player leave, I must applaud you for a well written post. You stated your feelings in a non-inflammatory way and you have my respect for that, I hope you find a game that meets your needs in the future.

Well written post

[Brandon_Blackbird]

precisely, yes.

after being made even, i want to be treated exactly like one of the free accounts.

it will then be my decision to pay for more or not, based on what i feel the game has to offer.

as things stand now, i was not given a choice.

...

My mind is utterly blown by this post. Truly. I can't fathom why someone would want less (and pay for) than what they get now (and forever) for free.

You felt this game had enough to offer that you bought a lifetime sub. Nothing is changing except now there will be a free to play option (with massive restrictions). You don't lose anything. I don't get it.

I totally recognize that people will choose to leave the game because of this, and that's fine. I just don't understand it, especially leaving BEFORE finding out exactly what the impact will be.

DDO has had at least 5 content updates since they went F2P. I'm looking forward to similar speeds here once the ball gets rolling with V3B2.

[Bob]

On the plus side, lifer accounts will probably sell on ebay quite well.

[Lohi]

LOL - I don't know if it will be THAT bad, but I do agree that seeing "lock" icons over quest givers that must be purchased will be a tad irritating. :P

Irritating to who? VIP players won't see it; ie, anyone with a subscription of any kind. If you're a subscriber, the game will act much like any other subscription based MMO. The players who will see the lock icon will be those who are not subscribing.

Which I think is perfectly reasonable. There are some games that I would like to play now and then, but I do not want to subscribe to them. If they gave me an option to show up now and then for free, I'd like it. If I could show up in City of Heroes a couple days a month to enjoy some clobberin' time for free and my friends come with me, but we were restricted from some content, I'd go for it! Of course there'd be restrictions, because I'm playing for free, so there'd be absolutely no problem with that for me.

[Ryinnik]

...

My mind is utterly blown by this post. Truly. I can't fathom why someone would want less (and pay for) than what they get now (and forever) for free.

You felt this game had enough to offer that you bought a lifetime sub. Nothing is changing except now there will be a free to play option (with massive restrictions). You don't lose anything. I don't get it.

I totally recognize that people will choose to leave the game because of this, and that's fine. I just don't understand it, especially leaving BEFORE finding out exactly what the impact will be.

DDO has had at least 5 content updates since they went F2P. I'm looking forward to similar speeds here once the ball gets rolling with V3B2.

Because the environment of the game will change. Log onto a F2P game if you don't believe me. So really the aspects will no longer be here that prompted the lifetime account purchase. Why is that hard to understand?

I don't understand how you don't think the impacts are pretty well understood. This is not the first game to go F2P. More tellingly this is not the first TURBINE game to go F2P. Seriously how much evidence would you like us to ingest that this is not the game model we would like to play under?

[XrioT]

On the plus side, lifer accounts will probably sell on ebay quite well.

Haha, just make sure to dump all your stuff on your F2P character before selling.

Oh...
wait....
It's all BoA

X