New Vault

[macdadg]

You are not the only one in the world here, personally I look forward to the new filters and such - they are not wasting their time on them.

He never said that they had given up on manual sorting, he just said that it wasn't going in at this time. I am sorry you are having a hard time figuring out how to make the new vault work for you, maybe when you actually see the improvements you will have more of an open mind instead of insisting that it must work exactly as you want it to or it's broke.

Maybe YOU should have an open mind and think before you call someone close-minded. I am responding to ransroth's posts regarding the possibility of manual sorting and letting him know that it is still an important issue for me. If you had read my post, you'd see that I said I was looking forward to the improvements that are forthcoming, and I commended him on the work he's already done to this point to make it as usable as it is.

I have tried having an open mind since the first version of the vault appeared in BETA, and it just doesn't work for me. Is it a deal-breaker? No. Will I stop playing? No, but I have found that I am not playing as much as I have in the past. I don't know if it is specifically in relation to the vault changes, but the vault changes don't help.

I've said several times that the old vault wasn't broke, and now for me, and lots of other people, it isn't necessarily broke, but the lost functionality is a huge step backwards.

I am against adding more and more filters and searches and automatic sorting in an effort to not to do manual sorting. That's throwing dev time and money at a problem they'll never quite fix. If they want to add more filters and searches and automatic sorting, fine, good for you and the people who use them. For me they're inelegant, slow down the process of using the vault, and unnecessarily complex. I need manual sorting for my optimum enjoyment of the game.

Is it selfish? Yes. Do I care about other people's views of the vault? No. Do I care if you like this version? Not really. I want my functionality back. If they can make it so you can have your frilly little filters and automatic sorting, fine, as long as I don't have to use them.

[OneArmedScissor]

You are not the only one in the world here, personally I look forward to the new filters and such - they are not wasting their time on them.

He never said that they had given up on manual sorting, he just said that it wasn't going in at this time. I am sorry you are having a hard time figuring out how to make the new vault work for you, maybe when you actually see the improvements you will have more of an open mind instead of insisting that it must work exactly as you want it to or it's broke.

Reading this thread is like nodding smugly for 100 minutes in a hall of mirrors, with nothing but fragmented glimpses of hollow satisfaction as a reward.

[findorin-gilrain]

Maybe YOU should have an open mind and think before you call someone close-minded.
Is it selfish? Yes. Do I care about other people's views of the vault? No. Do I care if you like this version? Not really. I want my functionality back. If they can make it so you can have your frilly little filters and automatic sorting, fine, as long as I don't have to use them.

Selfish is selfish. I don't want manual sorting I like what's there and what seems to be coming. So there, I will be selfish too and that's your vote cancelled out. I have faith that ransroth will continue to work on the new vault as much as able. I don't have a lot of faith in all things Turbine at the moment, but this is one of them.

[macdadg]

Selfish is selfish. I don't want manual sorting I like what's there and what seems to be coming. So there, I will be selfish too and that's your vote cancelled out. I have faith that ransroth will continue to work on the new vault as much as able. I don't have a lot of faith in all things Turbine at the moment, but this is one of them.

+rep for honesty.

I'm not looking to "cancel out" anyone's vote.

I never said not to have automatic sorting or filters, I said it would be a waste of time to continue to add more and more automatic filtering instead of adding manual sorting. I mean seriously, are you going to have an automatic sort for every type of item? How are you going to determine how to sort them by? Take rep items. There are generally 3 items per rep faction. Do you organize them all alphabetical? Do you organize them by rep reward? Do you organize them by rep faction? No matter how you do it, it's going to be wrong for a number of people.

Keep the automatic sorting for the people who don't know how to organize their stuff. For most of those people, alphabetic sorting may be all they need. Let those of us who want control over our inventories have it too.

[digger48]

I really dont understand why there just can't be a switch in the UI setting that says "Old Vault".

The old code is already written and works to many people's satisfaction. The new vault code works and also performs to many peoples satisfaction. Allowing people to use whichever they prefer at any given time seems the way to go.

Personally, I hated the new vault when I first used it but now I'm getting more used to it. I am still annoyed that I cannot see everything at once, but in general I find the new vault useful. I'd like to have both worlds.

[gildhur]

I really dont understand why there just can't be a switch in the UI setting that says "Old Vault".

The old code is already written and works to many people's satisfaction. The new vault code works and also performs to many peoples satisfaction. Allowing people to use whichever they prefer at any given time seems the way to go.

The old code no longer exists. It's like asking for a tobble to be able to use the old version of Angmar before the revamp. Physically impossible.

[Ascus2]

Multi-Select of filter types would be be great.

Rename bags would also be great. That way I could label my 10 bags, if possible showing how many items in the bag would be awesome.

The thing I miss is being able to see all the content of my inventory at one time. I always organized my items so I could tell what they were at a glace, like crafting materials organized by tiers, bound items separated from unbound items, etc. Those would not be recreateable by any form of filter.

There are so many ways people like to organize their stuff, IMHO getting the LUA interface asap would be most effective. See what the players build and use, work the best one into the standard UI.

[DougHillman]

If I had put in more effort into organizing my vault earlier, carefully designing it so that each tier was its own row or whatnot, then it may be comparably easy, but I would have had to spend a not-insignificant time into that original organization.

While I'm sure you know it, THIS is the issue that many of us have. We DID put some time (you're exaggerating to say that it was a significant amount of time. I'd wager that for most of us, it didn't take much time or thought at all. We've learned that being organized doesn't actually take much time AND it's better in the long run.) into our vault layout and now our effort has been kicked in the teeth in order to coddle to the people who can't be bothered.


I'll take this moment to say again the sorting by tier/level/whatnot will be a much-needed improvement. How about another pass at the horrible, HORRIBLE naming conventions? That alone would have made Alphabetical a little easier to stomach. The flowery "Sprig of" this, "Lump of" that and "Chunk of" the other surely made some intern happy to come up with, but it's just a ******, ****** way to name things. It was a ****** idea when all we had to do way find the junk to buy on a vendor, but now that we've got to organize stuff in our vaults this way, it's even worse.

As a previous poster said, I don't want to have to type junk into a search box. This stuff should be intuitive & easy to find. If I want Strawberries, I want to look near the end of my alphabetical list under "S" for "Strawberries" NOT at the top because someone decided they were a "Bunch of Strawberries." Seriously, that's just idiotic. Your flavor text doesn't add anything to the game, it just adds frustration. Ingots are another example. If I want to see what ingots I have available, I've got to track them down individually. "Khazad-Iron ingots" "Mithril-Infused Ingot" "Copper Ingot" "Westernesse Steel Ingot"

Fix your naming conventions and people wouldn't HAVE to resort to manual searches so much.

[MsHawke]

While I'm sure you know it, THIS is the issue that many of us have. We DID put some time (you're exaggerating to say that it was a significant amount of time. I'd wager that for most of us, it didn't take much time or thought at all. We've learned that being organized doesn't actually take much time AND it's better in the long run.) into our vault layout and now our effort has been kicked in the teeth in order to coddle to the people who can't be bothered.


I'll take this moment to say again the sorting by tier/level/whatnot will be a much-needed improvement. How about another pass at the horrible, HORRIBLE naming conventions? That alone would have made Alphabetical a little easier to stomach. The flowery "Sprig of" this, "Lump of" that and "Chunk of" the other surely made some intern happy to come up with, but it's just a ******, ****** way to name things. It was a ****** idea when all we had to do way find the junk to buy on a vendor, but now that we've got to organize stuff in our vaults this way, it's even worse.

As a previous poster said, I don't want to have to type junk into a search box. This stuff should be intuitive & easy to find. If I want Strawberries, I want to look near the end of my alphabetical list under "S" for "Strawberries" NOT at the top because someone decided they were a "Bunch of Strawberries." Seriously, that's just idiotic. Your flavor text doesn't add anything to the game, it just adds frustration. Ingots are another example. If I want to see what ingots I have available, I've got to track them down individually. "Khazad-Iron ingots" "Mithril-Infused Ingot" "Copper Ingot" "Westernesse Steel Ingot"

Fix your naming conventions and people wouldn't HAVE to resort to manual searches so much.

The naming conventions are just fine. I don't want to have to resort to a search feature, period. I would prefer a manual/visual sort and search. I'm really disappointed that manual sorting won't be in the next update. It needs to be a priority, not a "maybe we'll get around to it" or a "you need to get used to doing things our way".

I'm waiting for the next update (is there a date for that btw?) to see if things improve at all. Drop down functions for a chest that leads to a list of stuff that is sorted by someone else's idea of how they think I should sort my bank vault is extremely unappealing. This new vault system does not work for me at all. I absolutely hate it and I've all but given up on it as it is. I've never spent so much time at the vault trying to find things. In the past, this wasn't an issue. I knew where everything was before I opened the vault. It's currently almost unusable for me since I just can't find anything in there in any reasonable amount of time.

Naming chests is an improvement. Ability to kill the item description is an improvement, as is horizontal sizing options. I hope I can make it look something like photoshopped version that Killevan posted on page 7 of this thread.

[Cithryth]

I am here not to post my own opinion, but a kin member of mine's (who would prefer to stay anonymous). She cannot access the forums right now but requested that I submit this feedback on the new vault:

The new vault is impossible to organize the way I had it before. I'm having so much trouble arranging recipes by tier. It is so difficult to find and store things. With the old system I could arrange things at a glance - now I just stand in front of the vault with a confused look on my face. It feels like someone broke into my bank and ransacked my stuff. Please, please revert to the old storage system or at least offer a choice between the old and new vaults. I'm not the only one going nuts - other long time VIP players are like minded. I love lotro and Enedwaith looks great - thanks so much for all the effort you put into making Tolkien's Middle-Earth come alive. I know you've been getting lots of negative feedback but sometimes folks forget to give credit where it is due. Awesome job! Thanks

I figured this would be the best place to post her feedback rather than starting a whole new thread.

[Ayrolen]

Like it or not, the old vault is not coming back. They also aren't going to give us the option of choosing between the old and new vault because there were server performance reasons for switching to the new one. Why would they give us the option of using the old system that was causing problems? Time to accept that and move on. Ransroth (and whoever else is working on it) are doing their best to restore as much of the old functionality as they can.

[Cithryth]

Like I said, not my complaint.

This kin member in question takes it very hard when things change in game. She's in her mid fifties and does not know very much about computers at all so learning new systems in game is hard for her. I was just being a good kin member and going through with her request. I know they aren't going to change it back to the old vault system.

[macdadg]

Like I said, not my complaint.

This kin member in question takes it very hard when things change in game. She's in her mid fifties and does not know very much about computers at all so learning new systems in game is hard for her. I was just being a good kin member and going through with her request. I know they aren't going to change it back to the old vault system.

I feel for your kinmate, and I feel the same way about the new vault system. She is not alone, many people feel the same way. Ransroth is working hard to return the functionality that we had with the old system, and I think we'll get there, but not any time soon. Some of us more vocal people won't stop protesting until we have our old functionality back.

[Unique]

Like I said, not my complaint.

This kin member in question takes it very hard when things change in game. She's in her mid fifties and does not know very much about computers at all so learning new systems in game is hard for her. I was just being a good kin member and going through with her request. I know they aren't going to change it back to the old vault system.

This thread isn't big but it has a couple good suggestions of how to deal with the new vault.
Vault chest layout how are you doing it

I don't know if she can't even read the forum or she just can't post but maybe you can convey the information to her. Tell her to hang in there

[Hrodberht]

In regards to vault expansion space, Ransroth replied-

A decision was made to not offer them at this time.

Um, you might want to check your facts. I was able to purchase 90 extra vault spaces, in increments of 15, on 9/7. I got the in-game confirmation, confirmation emails, and the purchases show in my account records. I just never actually received the space. I hope Turbine isn't really going to try to retcon this into "We never offered that.".

[macdadg]

In regards to vault expansion space, Ransroth replied-



Um, you might want to check your facts. I was able to purchase 90 extra vault spaces, in increments of 15, on 9/7. I got the in-game confirmation, confirmation emails, and the purchases show in my account records. I just never actually received the space. I hope Turbine isn't really going to try to retcon this into "We never offered that.".

They offer the vault spaces up to 120, which is what you can get with in game gold. Ransroth is referring to the 2 15 space upgrades that were in BETA that took you to 135 and 150 spaces respectively. If you bought 90 extra spaces to get to 120, and you have receipts but haven't received them on your character, contact support.

[Hrodberht]

When/if we get detachable chests, we'll probably want to introduce the ability you are talking about to change the view on each one



Yes for tabs



A decision was made to not offer them at this time.

They offer the vault spaces up to 120, which is what you can get with in game gold. Ransroth is referring to the 2 15 space upgrades that were in BETA that took you to 135 and 150 spaces respectively. If you bought 90 extra spaces to get to 120, and you have receipts but haven't received them on your character, contact support.

No, what I am referring to is vault space beyond 120. I have had 120 vault spaces for about 3 years. On 9/7. when I clicked on additional space, it offered me a series of expanded space buys in 15 space increments. Several other people have experienced the same thing. I put in a ticket with account support a week ago, and dead air so far.

[Beldacar]

No, what I am referring to is vault space beyond 120. I have had 120 vault spaces for about 3 years. On 9/7. when I clicked on additional space, it offered me a series of expanded space buys in 15 space increments. Several other people have experienced the same thing. I put in a ticket with account support a week ago, and dead air so far.

That sounds like a store bug. It was offering you the 30 to 45 upgrade, 45 to 60 upgrade, etc., even though you already had them. Hence why they've never appeared in-game. The vault upgrades have very poor thumbnail descriptions: you have to click on the More Info link to see the fine print, like "this upgrades your Vault from 90 to 105 slots."

In short, as far as I can tell based on how the system worked in beta, you were not offered additional expansion beyond 120 slots; instead, you were offered (and apparently purchased) the expansions from 30 to 120. The store should not have offered you those at all; you should have gotten the red message saying that there was nothing available that matched your search criteria.

And yes, I logged in during the advance preview on 9/8 and the first thing I checked was the availability of the 120 to 150 vault upgrades. They were not available and I have not seen them become available since. Unfortunate, since one of the major selling points of the new vault was the fact that it was extensible beyond 120 :^P

[Beldacar]

The thing is that I'd have found both my extraordinary and magnificent hides in under a second, without typing, in the old vault. I kept them in specific slots. For me, the search is just an extra hoop to go through: first I have to click the search box, move my hand from the mouse to the keyboard, think of what the name is, type it, then move my hand back to the mouse. I suppose it's not that much time, but it is orders of magnitude slower than it used to be.

Here's the funny part: I find typing in "extrao" or "magni" to be far more efficient and intuitive than trying to remember which slots in my vault have which hides or, worse, trying to figure out which tiny icon is which. Your system worked fine for you, obviously, but would just annoy me: What do I do if I have a second stack of Extraordinary Leather? What if I use up all my Light Leather? Do I leave those precious bank slots empty or put something else in there and then confuse myself when I come back two weeks later and can't figure out why there's a stack of Hope Tokens in the middle of my Tailoring supplies?

Frankly, I =loathed= the amount of time and effort that the old system =forced= us to invest. So much so that I coined the phrase "LOTRO, the Exciting Game of Inventory Management(TM)!!!" to describe it.

"I don't think having search is bad, and it may have come in useful occasionally in the old vault, but I used to have better ways of finding my stuff.

I have to say that I'm excited about the new sorting options: I wasted plenty of time keeping my LI XP runes sorted by value in the old vault .

And that's a perfect example of why the new system is demonstrably superior: the old system simply could not have been manipulated automatically to produce that result; you were =forced= to organize the IXP runes manually or simply accept disorganization. The new system has the potential to remove all that wasted time and effort with two clicks of the mouse.

With the auto-stacking of items in the vault, does it make sense for different stacks of the same item to be able to exist in different packs? What if all 160 of the hides appeared as one stack, with some indication that they were taking up 2 slots in the vault? That would get around the problems you described above. [Edit] Of course, it'd have problems of its own, like what happens when you drag the "superstack" into your bags: do you get all stacks, just one, a popup asking you? Maybe give some affordance on the "superstack" in the vault to let you drag only one of the stacks at a time.

As a side note: will the next release of the vault auto-stack items in my bags when i withdraw them? In the old vault if you right-clicked to remove an item (but not drag/dropped), it'd auto-stack with items in your inventory; the new vault doesn't do that.

Probably my biggest peeve with the new system. The old system made it a lot faster to get things out of the vault and into your bags (if you knew where everything was, and/or were good at telling apart all the icons); the new system makes it a lot faster to get things out of your bags and into the vault. I prefer the new system, but there are times when I definitely miss having things auto-stack into my bags. It just seems weird that some systems can do that just fine (detaching items from mail, buying items from vendors), while other systems are incapable (player-to-player trades, removing items from the vault). It would be fantastic if all these systems worked the same way. I'm just sayin'....

[zachhope]

Honestly? I HATED the old vault. Had to hover over everything to see what it was, and make sure it was the right thing -- that I was getting t4 crit materials instead of t2, and etcetera. Now, I can see the names. Now I can look for stuff without hovering and without having to open and close "box 1" and "box 2" because I can now scroll through everything, find what I need, and be done with the dang thing.

No, it wasn't broke before, but it's pretty nice now!

[Dunferth]

I must admit, I hated the new vault .......for about 60 seconds until I realized all items are alphbetically listed. Unless you don't know your ABC's, it's not real hard to find stuff lol

[Ulrek]

As you might imagine, this week has been rather crazy for me, but finally made it through this thread.

First an update on the new features - I've been able to get most of what everyone has been asking for implemented. QA has yet to take a pass through it, so it's possible that something will be found to be terribly broken and will need to be pulled, but so far so good.

You will be able to resize the vault (and shared storage) horizontally, rename chests, and turn off item name display.

The major piece we weren't able to get to is manual sort. I'm sure we'll catch a lot of flak over it, but it just didn't fit in the schedule. Instead, there will be a new kind of sort that automatically sorts some items within the vault for you (for example IXP runes by value). Over time, this automatic sort can be extended to become smarter and smarter.

Manual sort is still on the list of possible improvements, but now looks like it probably won't make it to the next major update.

There are also other improvements that you haven't asked for, but I think will like a lot .

Thanks for all your hard work... I like the new vault and these changes will make it even better.

[Ransroth]

They offer the vault spaces up to 120, which is what you can get with in game gold. Ransroth is referring to the 2 15 space upgrades that were in BETA that took you to 135 and 150 spaces respectively. If you bought 90 extra spaces to get to 120, and you have receipts but haven't received them on your character, contact support.

That's exactly right.

That sounds like a store bug. It was offering you the 30 to 45 upgrade, 45 to 60 upgrade, etc., even though you already had them. Hence why they've never appeared in-game. The vault upgrades have very poor thumbnail descriptions: you have to click on the More Info link to see the fine print, like "this upgrades your Vault from 90 to 105 slots."

In short, as far as I can tell based on how the system worked in beta, you were not offered additional expansion beyond 120 slots; instead, you were offered (and apparently purchased) the expansions from 30 to 120. The store should not have offered you those at all; you should have gotten the red message saying that there was nothing available that matched your search criteria.

That's right too. I'm aware of two possible reasons why this might have happened:
1. You hadn't ever opened the new vault yet and the store didn't know your capacity properly. So even though you had expanded your vault under the old system to 120 slots, you were being offered the 30-45 upgrade
2. If you open the store, see the offer to take you from 30-45, then upgrade your vault for gold with the store open, you can then buy the 30-45 upgrade and it won't do anything for you

I'm guessing issue 1 is the trouble. There's a fix for that issue in the works, although I'm not sure exactly when it will go live.

Meanwhile, you should be able to open a ticket, and get help.

[Thoroval]

The new vault is definitely growing on me. Not being restricted to 30/15 slots is quite a boon. I can't tell you how many times I've had to rearrange things because some segment of items I was storing grew so large that it pushed into another bag.

Some observations based on extended usage.

I noticed while moving items (using double mouse click) from the vault into inventory that partial stacks don't fill other partial stacks that are already in inventory. If I recall correctly, we used to be able to right click a stack in the old vault and it would fill partical stacks in inventory. Is the current behavior intentional, a bug, or a future improvement opportunity?

Also, having to right click... every... single... item... one... at... a... time... and selecting the new bag from the right click menu is quite the pain. Any thoughts on how to do a mass move? I know multi-select would be the way to go from a usability perspective, but it doesn't sound like it's something you'll be able to do without a lot of pain. A workable solution may be a keystroke combination that would move items in our inventory to the currently opened vault bag much like double mouse click moves items from the vault to inventory. So 1) double mouse click items we want to move enmass into inventory (temporarily), 2) switch to another vault bag, then 3) shift-double mouse click (just an example of keystroke combo) items back into the currently displayed bag. Have this key stroke combo override auto bag location, but not stacking if a partial stack exists in the displayed bag.

I'm very much hopeful that when the new new vault comes out, it will automatically sort your crafting materials by tier, then by profession

The largest segment of stuff I keep around is for crafting, both on my crafters and mules, so that's what I mess with/move around the most.

For the mules, I've been splitting mats up (separate bags) by tier. (i.e Bag 1 = Tier 1, Bag 2 = Tier 2, etc.) When you implement auto sorting by tier/profession, since they're already separated by tier, they'll just need to be auto sorted by profession.

However, my crafters have their mats separated in bags by profession. (i.e. Bag 1 = Metalsmith, Bag 2 = Tailor, etc.) Again, when you implement auto sorting by tier/profession, since they're already separated by profession, they'll just need to be auto sorted by crafting tier.

I'm kind of curious though how things will be split up for mats such as ingots. For example, many metal ingots are shared between Metalsmith and Weaponsmith. How would those be classified? Both Metalsmith and Weaponsmith? Just Prospector? I really wish we could see the sort order for everything before it gets set in stone.

Btw, I do hope you can implement manual sorting at some point (although I really hope it can be a per bag setting). You just can't get an auto sort that will do things like keep specific cosmetic outfits together, armour sets (i.e. these 6 items are my solo armour set, and these 6 are my healing armour set), keepsakes, etc. Regardless of how good an auto sort is, there are going to be situations it can't cover.

[DougHillman]

I must admit, I hated the new vault .......for about 60 seconds until I realized all items are alphbetically listed. Unless you don't know your ABC's, it's not real hard to find stuff lol

Really? Where are your Strawberries? Where is your Coal? Where are your Mixed Spices? Where's your Extraordinary Leather? Where's your Wax? Where's your untreated Yew?

Alphabetical sort SUCKS with the current fluffy naming conventions. While it's nice that it sorts all of your say, untreated wood together as "Logs of xxxx wood" it's total **** for many other things. Cooking supplies are, in particular, a ridiculous mess. Some of the stuff is named simply so you can find them where you'd expect to (Yellow Onions) while the rest all have fluff descriptors so they're NOT where you'd expect them to be (Head of Cauliflower).

Plus, there's NO consistancy. For a woodworker, at least all of the untreated stuff starts with the same descriptor and the treated starts with another. So while your Yew wood will never be found under "Y", at least it's grouped with other like materials. Anyone who uses metal though, doesn't get the same consideration. Untreated all gets called "Chunks of xxxx" but treated is not "Ingots of xxxx" as you might possibly expect. So my vault has Ancient Iron Ingots here, Khazad-Bronze Ingots there and Westernesse Steel Ingots way down there, with a whole buncha stuff in between.

The fact that this naming issue affects both vaults and buying stuff from a provisioner makes it doubly a pain in the ***.

More sort options for the vault will help, especially tier/level/whatever it is, but until the item names are given another pass to make them more intuitive, it's still going to be far less than optimal.