The Palantir Private Preview Program

[Arbalister]

Really? Interesting how delphinius just contradicted you with what actually happened...

Not really - unless you count "focus on X" as direction - but we've always had that.

What I mean is that they have to be purposely "vague" with anything that looks like it might be a company representative managing a test team. That's what killed the Asheron's Call volunteer team. Those lawsuits by former volunteers did almost nothing but illustrate how badly someone can stretch the definition of "employment" to try to hold a company liable for back wages.

Not when the devs and NetOps didn't plan for this. They planned events for us to put some large-scale group combat load on the servers and such, but things went south before any of that happened. In other words it was someone's fault at Turbine. It wasn't supposed to happen. I can't fault them for unexpected things during a stress test, but I can fault them for poor planning for when something bad happens.

It was a stress test. It *was* planned for. It was planned that we'd pooch the server. That's the entire point.

[cipher_nemo]

Not really - unless you count "focus on X" as direction - but we've always had that.

We did not have that for the Mines of Moria beta I tested in 2008, or at least I couldn't find anything like that. It would have helped quite a bit.

[Hammerfast]

Both Khafar and Arbalister offer great advice to potential applicants. Both of those posts are above this one - if you haven't seen them yet, be sure and take a gander.

[Xanius]

Good to see this is back Kehleyr. I'm definitely reapplying because I've missed the server.

[Malachi108]

So, what exactly is being ******, the name makes it unclear. Is it the next expansion? A new zone? New gameplay being tested? Or do only the participants know this?

[TheNefarious]

Laying out specific tasks, doing any sort of scheduling etc, is something that's not going to happen in any beta program anywhere (in the US) probably.

It may have been your previous experience that Beta programs do not provide specific tasks or schedules by which to test content, however; it should be noted that this was not the case for the F2P Beta and will not be the case during the upcoming Palatir testing.

As with the F2P Beta, there will be a new schedule posted every week during the active testing time frame to provide a starting point for testers who may be uncertain what to work on.

[Arbalister]

It may have been your previous experience that Beta programs do not provide specific tasks or schedules by which to test content, however; it should be noted that this was not the case for the F2P Beta and will not be the case during the upcoming Palatir testing.

As with the F2P Beta, there will be a new schedule posted every week during the active testing time frame to provide a starting point for testers who may be uncertain what to work on.

That's great! I know a lot of people felt unguided in other tests. Frankly, I never expected to see anything like again, after the aforementioned lawsuits. There was, actually, a time when I was on a similar test program where, in order to avoid the conditions the plaintiffs used to "define" employment, we were actually "hired" as independent contractors, for a minimum number of hours, at a fixed, tiny stipend. (I'm being vague because even though the NDA is long since dead, I tend to stick to the letter...) Anyhow...we were free to test for as many hours as we wanted, but doing this allowed the perception that we're contractors, working for ourselves...etc. Most of the people in the program were actually against getting paid for it, and it didn't last too long. And a month later we were all voluteers again. :-p Hehehe.

[Grampsaz]

Hopefully Turbine has changed the way it's doing betas/tests. In the past my beta experience was soured by the way Turbine handled it. Perhaps they're starting with a new slate for applications since they realize past testers will already be put off after their past experiences?

For example, I was part of the Mines of Moria beta -- NDA long since expired -- in 2008. There was no direction for the testers, little communication from QA or devs during the test, and many of our bugs were never addressed/fixed before Moria's launch any ways (even the small, easy fixes).

Then I was part of a stress test in Spring of 2009 in which we sat around staring at a character unable to move anywhere and unable to participate in what was supposed to be part of the fun due to the enormous server lag (it was a less than ideal stress test). When the dev-lead events started, no one could really do anything. I'm sure the devs got some useful information as a result of that stress-test, but they never guessed the servers would be so burdened that they'd be unable to do the testing events.

Both of these past experiences left me feeling like the testing was either mismanaged and that our feedback and bugs didn't make any difference at all. I understand these are supposed to be tests and things happen, but twice in a row of bad experiences means I'll pass on any volunteer testing for Turbine products.

Don't get me wrong: I love LOTRO and love what Turbine has done with it so far. It's just the beta testing and stress testing I felt was managed/planned poorly. Hopefully that has changed since then?

Mines of Moria testing was with out a doubt the funnest most rewarding testing experience i've ever had.

The feedback via forums, ingame, mIrc and even in vent was phenomenal. I started a RK and a Warden when there were only skills available to lv 10. Every single time they updated the classes I started again from scratch with both classes and wrote of 100s of words worth of feedback, balance concerns and bugs in threads I started. Every single update something was addressed, for better or worse. I can look at both classes and point to specific things that were changed based primarily from my feedback.

The quality of feedback you give, with the data to back up your feedback goes a long way in testing.

[Kehleyr]

So, what exactly is being ******, the name makes it unclear. Is it the next expansion? A new zone? New gameplay being tested? Or do only the participants know this?

I'm not quite sure what you are asking here, but I'm going to guess you're curious if the program's name has significance? Not really. It's just a word we liked.

Since we're starting all over with new hardware, a new community, and a new billing process, a new name seemed like a good idea.

[Arbalister]

Mines of Moria testing was with out a doubt the funnest most rewarding testing experience i've ever had.

The feedback via forums, ingame, mIrc and even in vent was phenomenal.

Yeah, I didn't really remember any issues with lack of feedback.

[Griffy]

It may have been your previous experience that Beta programs do not provide specific tasks or schedules by which to test content, however; it should be noted that this was not the case for the F2P Beta and will not be the case during the upcoming Palatir testing.

As with the F2P Beta, there will be a new schedule posted every week during the active testing time frame to provide a starting point for testers who may be uncertain what to work on.

Having been to all previous programs so far. I gotta say those schedules in F2P were so very nice, Nef. Logging in, just to end up twiddling my thumbs often enough, I never would have imagined putting together a group of 24 people for Helegrod so effeciently. (Having an admin porting them helped a lot too. ) People made themselves available to be there, and I was sorry that we couldn't take them all.
I don't know how many other groups formed that day (or on other Hele-testing days), but I was pleased with the amount of folks who came and asked if there was room for them in the Helegrod testing that I too was able to make myself available for.

[delphinius81]

That's great! I know a lot of people felt unguided in other tests. Frankly, I never expected to see anything like again, after the aforementioned lawsuits. There was, actually, a time when I was on a similar test program where, in order to avoid the conditions the plaintiffs used to "define" employment, we were actually "hired" as independent contractors, for a minimum number of hours, at a fixed, tiny stipend. (I'm being vague because even though the NDA is long since dead, I tend to stick to the letter...) Anyhow...we were free to test for as many hours as we wanted, but doing this allowed the perception that we're contractors, working for ourselves...etc. Most of the people in the program were actually against getting paid for it, and it didn't last too long. And a month later we were all voluteers again. :-p Hehehe.

The agreements you "sign" when volunteering for beta programs these days have since changed. You'll notice that they specifically state that no compensation will be provided and since it is voluntary, that you are under no obligation to test for some minimum number of hours each week. The weekly foci are for guidance purposes, although I've heard of QA teams from various MMOs observing players as they interacted with content to be tested. But even in those cases, there was never a requirement to test at that time. If you wanted to start a group at some non-standard time to test the same content, you were always able and encouraged to.

I'm not quite sure what you are asking here, but I'm going to guess you're curious if the program's name has significance? Not really. It's just a word we liked.

Since we're starting all over with new hardware, a new community, and a new billing process, a new name seemed like a good idea.

When I first saw it, I thought you were referring to Digital_Utopia's Palantir plug-in. I got very confused why Turbine would be hosting a separate program to preview his already released Lua script.

[cipher_nemo]

Mines of Moria testing was with out a doubt the funnest most rewarding testing experience i've ever had.

I'm glad you enjoyed it. I had a much different experience.

[cipher_nemo]

Laying out specific tasks, doing any sort of scheduling etc, is something that's not going to happen in any beta program anywhere (in the US) probably.

It may have been your previous experience that Beta programs do not provide specific tasks or schedules by which to test content, however; it should be noted that this was not the case for the F2P Beta and will not be the case during the upcoming Palatir testing.

As with the F2P Beta, there will be a new schedule posted every week during the active testing time frame to provide a starting point for testers who may be uncertain what to work on.

Thanks! I'm glad that is changing. I will still pass on applying for this testing round, but it's good to know it has improved.

[Nasty8]

Glad to hear this is back. If there's anything extra I can do to get in, (read: bake cookies and pie) let me know.

As to everyone with questions about testing schedules and directions as to what and where to test, having participated in all the previous betas, I can strongly say that the recent F2P beta was the best one yet. The blue-names did a fantastic job letting us know what they needed, and the forums were very very busy with feedback and suggestions. If Palantir is anything like that, and Nef says it will be, you should be very excited to apply and even more anxious to actually test it out!

[Laire]

Oh! Exciting! A new name! Great FAQ, Ms. Keyl!

[Lohi]

Game developers have tight testing windows, and if you're quite busy in real life much of the time, you simply might not be able to help when they need it.

This is the part I'm worried about. Ie, is this a "please log in during east coast hours" sort of thing so that the devs are still online? Or is it a "please test this feature today and today only"? Is this a case of having to monitor the particular forums carefully and daily (a pain with the new forums)?

Generally when I was on Bullroarer I did things at my own pace. I tried to avoid the masses all going to whatever the fashion was, and instead focused on what I thought was useful for for me and my kin and friends; ie, does the low level content still work, does the new storyline make sense, etc. The weekly focused testing often tended to be askew from what I was doing - I had not interest in doing helegrod that week, and probably I didn't have the skills either; or I had already tested the festival stuff the week before; etc. I could never tell if I was the first player to find an obscure bug or merely the one thousandth.

On the other hand, I'd love the chance to do stuff like comment on some of this stuff before they get to the "too late to change it now" bullroarer stage.

[Lohi]

It was a stress test. It *was* planned for. It was planned that we'd pooch the server. That's the entire point.

And it was declared a success after the fact. They learned about issues that needed fixing - a success in my book. The idea of these events wasn't to have fun, so it doesn't matter if two sides in the moors are just staring at each other unable to move.

The other important point here is that Palantir isn't a "beta test", and it isn't replacing Bullroarer. It's replacing Isengard, which was earlier testing than the "nearly ready for release preview-beta". It's a severely smaller set of testers as well.

[Dpsburgping]

It seems like a strange coincidence that this new program has the exact same name as one of the most popular lua plugins, maybe even a little confusing. I seen this post and immediately thought Turbine was doing something with the plugin.

[Kaarnyj]

Didn't see anything in the original post about it, but asking as I'm unsure...Do you allow Canadians into your testing program? Many game companies do not, so though I'd check and see

Thanks!

[Amphoras]

Didn't see anything in the original post about it, but asking as I'm unsure...Do you allow Canadians into your testing program? Many game companies do not, so though I'd check and see

Thanks!

I think you just need to have an active US subscription.

[TheNefarious]

Didn't see anything in the original post about it, but asking as I'm unsure...Do you allow Canadians into your testing program? Many game companies do not, so though I'd check and see

Thanks!

Living in Canada is not an issue so long as you have an active VIP subscription on one of the U.S. servers.

[gildhur]

So, what exactly is being ******, the name makes it unclear. Is it the next expansion? A new zone? New gameplay being tested? Or do only the participants know this?

The PPP (now PPPP) is not a one-off program. It isn't being opened to test one particular release. Isengard was open from shortly before SoA launch until just before SoM and tested almost everything in between. Betas are for expansions (and F2P, being a special case). Isengard/Palantir is for testing everything else. It will probably get first shot at everything up until the Isengard xpac next year.

[Xero852]

Would it be possible to set up an auto-responder that acknowledges applications this time around? I had a bit of apprehensiveness when I last applied to Isengard a long time ago because there was no email notification that an application was received.

[Xanius]

This is the part I'm worried about. Ie, is this a "please log in during east coast hours" sort of thing so that the devs are still online? Or is it a "please test this feature today and today only"? Is this a case of having to monitor the particular forums carefully and daily (a pain with the new forums)?

Generally when I was on Bullroarer I did things at my own pace. I tried to avoid the masses all going to whatever the fashion was, and instead focused on what I thought was useful for for me and my kin and friends; ie, does the low level content still work, does the new storyline make sense, etc. The weekly focused testing often tended to be askew from what I was doing - I had not interest in doing helegrod that week, and probably I didn't have the skills either; or I had already tested the festival stuff the week before; etc. I could never tell if I was the first player to find an obscure bug or merely the one thousandth.

On the other hand, I'd love the chance to do stuff like comment on some of this stuff before they get to the "too late to change it now" bullroarer stage.

In my experience the QA guys will also get on while at home to do focus testing and not just at work depending on what it is. Other things they will stay at work late to do it.
The focus testing was also broken up, they had a weekly list of things to test but they also scheduled test events, major instances and raids were scheduled so that they could have groups set up and multiple QA members watching progress and taking notes on what happened and how, and if it coincided with what they expected or wanted the players to do.

Also, being the first or thousandth person to put in a report on a bug doesn't matter. The other 999 people might have missed a detail on what they were doing to cause it that you didn't and that detail might be the key detail for finding the problem.
They prefer to get 1000 reports on the same bug so they can sort by severity of issue and frequency. If 3/1000 people report the bug, but 1000/1000 people actually experience the bug then they don't know the true scale of the problem.