Warrior's Fortitude idea

[head0nfire]

When the heal crits, it clears all debuffs. How bout dat?

[DackRover]

I like it...good thought We can add it to 100% bleed on KB capstone, having our sprint make us stun/fm immune, and having Deep Breath reset TtT also.

[head0nfire]

I like it...good thought We can add it to 100% bleed on KB capstone, having our sprint make us stun/fm immune, and having Deep Breath reset TtT also.

Yeah, I pretty much agree with all those as well. How about making SS/TtK fast, just like the rest of the block/parry chains? I find that they both take a while to go off right after other skills, and if I'm in the middle of both chains (which is pretty much all the time if I have more than 1 mob on me) I often lose reactives because of their non-responsiveness.

[DackRover]

Yeah, I pretty much agree with all those as well. How about making SS/TtK fast, just like the rest of the block/parry chains? I find that they both take a while to go off right after other skills, and if I'm in the middle of both chains (which is pretty much all the time if I have more than 1 mob on me) I often lose reactives because of their non-responsiveness.

I have seen this too and concur. I say we start singing a mantra about these things the way some other classes do...they are little nagging things, but apparently proclaiming how fail we are without them has inspired the dev's to rectify and give love to certain other classes making similar claims over and over.

Maybe if we start now, we can get some notice and one or two adjustments worked into the next update/realease!

[Eliel]

Don't forget that TTT needs to pull all our fellows out of stun. Not much good starting an FM against a target if half the group is still stunned from the AoE stun you're reacting to.

[DackRover]

Don't forget that TTT needs to pull all our fellows out of stun. Not much good starting an FM against a target if half the group is still stunned from the AoE stun you're reacting to.

Now you have me salivating...NOT good while at work...gonna scare the secretaries.

[PhiltheBold]

Warriors fortitude has enough upgrades IMO, I think this should definitely be implimented on the new Ignore the Pain skill to actually make it worth it and justify a 5min CD. And yeah Haemorrage needs an upgrade, 50% chance to bleed? Awesome capstone there.

[DackRover]

Warriors fortitude has enough upgrades IMO, I think this should definitely be implimented on the new Ignore the Pain skill to actually make it worth it and justify a 5min CD. And yeah Haemorrage needs an upgrade, 50% chance to bleed? Awesome capstone there.

Oh...yeah add that to the list...oversight by me...1 minute CD, but skill as is for Ignore, imo.

[Evendale]

WF crit clears debuffs: What practical use would that really have? Almost none. It's not like it crits often since its based on our tactical crit level, so you would never actually use it with the hope of removing buffs. It'd just be a nice fluff thing that happens once in a while. Meh.

100% bleed on KB capstone: I agree that the red capstone needs to be improved, but I actually think a 100% bleed would be too good. Maybe make it ~75% or make it 100% but reduce the size of the bleed (maybe make it require salting).

Sprint make us stun/fm immune: Would be somewhat useful in PvE, but I don't really like adding too much to sprint because I always want to use it to ... "sprint" :P. In PvP, on the other hand, this would be extremely useful. Given that Guardians play a pretty minimal role in PvP, I think it would actually be a pretty good change, but sadly Reavers would complain endlessly if this ever happened, so it won't.

Deep Breath resetting TtT: Yes, this should always have been the case. Surely just an oversight by the devs?

Making SS/TTK fast: While this would be very nice, I think it would be a little too good. The number of fast skills we would have would become so high that attack duration debuffs wouldn't even hurt us anymore...

But what is SS anyway? TTK = To the King; Does SS = Salt the Wound?

TtT pulling fellows out of a stun: Shouldn't be necessary as you should be tanking the mob in a place where your fellows aren't hit by frontal AOE (there are a couple of mobs that do 360 stuns, but this is quite rare, and in these cases, you can time your TtT to go off towards the end of the stun).

Reducing the cooldown of Ignore the Pain/Making it have a chance to remove all buffs: Yes, this would be extremely nice. Although, personally I would prefer that it (and Deep Breath as well!) is first given an instant animation (it takes too long to go off atm).

[DackRover]

WF crit clears debuffs: What practical use would that really have? Almost none. It's not like it crits often since its based on our tactical crit level, so you would never actually use it with the hope of removing buffs. It'd just be a nice fluff thing that happens once in a while. Meh.

MEH TO THE QUIBBLE!

100% bleed on KB capstone: I agree that the red capstone needs to be improved, but I actually think a 100% bleed would be too good. Maybe make it ~75% or make it 100% but reduce the size of the bleed (maybe make it require salting).

NO! 5 IN LINE PLUS A LEGENDARY SHOULD BE LEGENDARY.

Sprint make us stun/fm immune: Would be somewhat useful in PvE, but I don't really like adding too much to sprint because I always want to use it to ... "sprint" :P. In PvP, on the other hand, this would be extremely useful. Given that Guardians play a pretty minimal role in PvP, I think it would actually be a pretty good change, but sadly Reavers would complain endlessly if this ever happened, so it won't.

REAVERS AND CHAMPS ALREADY GOT THIS IN LAST UPDATE, NOTES SAID THEY WERE ANYWAY. NO REASON FOR INEQUITY IN OUR DISFAVOR AND WE ARE THE ONES WHO NEED TO COMPLAINING ENDLESSLY.

Deep Breath resetting TtT: Yes, this should always have been the case. Surely just an oversight by the devs?

AGREED.

Making SS/TTK fast: While this would be very nice, I think it would be a little too good. The number of fast skills we would have would become so high that attack duration debuffs wouldn't even hurt us anymore...

But what is SS anyway? TTK = To the King; Does SS = Salt the Wound?

SHIELD SWIPE... THAT IS NOT HOW ATTACK DURATION DEBUFFS WORK.


TtT pulling fellows out of a stun: Shouldn't be necessary as you should be tanking the mob in a place where your fellows aren't hit by frontal AOE (there are a couple of mobs that do 360 stuns, but this is quite rare, and in these cases, you can time your TtT to go off towards the end of the stun).

WHATEVER.

Reducing the cooldown of Ignore the Pain/Making it have a chance to remove all buffs: Yes, this would be extremely nice. Although, personally I would prefer that it (and Deep Breath as well!) is first given an instant animation (it takes too long to go off atm).

AGREED THAT THE ANIMATION IS TOO LONG ALSO...DID THEY SLOW IT DOWN ACTUALLY?

I put my responses to your notes in bold inside the quote for speed at my end.

[Evendale]

I put my responses to your notes in bold inside the quote for speed at my end.

Honestly if Brutal Assault started a ~1k bleed everytime you used it (every ~15s), Guardians would just have too much dps imo. I'm all for moar Guardian dps... but still, I think that would be a little too much.

Heh, I didn't realize that champs Sprint now made them immune to stuns. If so, we should definitely get it too. I mean surely it makes more sense for Guardians to have the skill work that way anyway.

Is Shield Swipe not a "fast" skill? I thought it was?

Attack Duration Debuffs only slow down the delay between auto attacks and the action duration of skills (ie: the amount of time you have to wait after a skill has completed before you can start a new skill). They do not affect animation speeds. Now all fast skills are able to ignore the action duration of the previous skill used: if queued up, they will start as soon as the animation of the previous skill completes. As such, when spamming several fast skills in a row, any action duration debuffs will be almost entirely circumvented (other than a reduced number of auto attacks over the period).

As for deep breath, I don't think it was ever slowed down. It's just always been really annoyingly slow. Often I don't know if I'm gonna need to use a second pledge, and I don't want to waste my 15m cooldown "just in case", but I kinda have to cause the animation time of deep breath might result in my death if I later discover I do need to hit pledge. Arg!

[DackRover]

Honestly if Brutal Assault started a ~1k bleed everytime you used it (every ~15s), Guardians would just have too much dps imo. I'm all for moar Guardian dps... but still, I think that would be a little too much.


Is Shield Swipe not a "fast" skill? I thought it was?


As for deep breath, I don't think it was ever slowed down. It's just always been really annoyingly slow. Often I don't know if I'm gonna need to use a second pledge, and I don't want to waste my 15m cooldown "just in case", but I kinda have to cause the animation time of deep breath might result in my death if I later discover I do need to hit pledge. Arg!

1) I think other classes have spammable 100% bleeds, even without traiting 5 plus a legendary as we do, no? (am asking sincerely)

2) it may be fast...

3) I agree as to DB....have actually noticed (maybe subjective mind fart on my part...dunno) that TtT takes longer now...seems like ages waiting for it to go off and time for mob to move out of range. Also, I seem to recall being able to hit it and get a reverse even while targeted on a different mob, say while attacking a defiler and getting jumoed by a warg...I do not remember needing to retarget the warg. Now you do have to retarget the possibly reversed mob/MP that stunned or fm'd you. Again, maybe I am getting senile...but it "feels" different to me lately.

[Evendale]

1) I think other classes have spammable 100% bleeds, even without traiting 5 plus a legendary as we do, no? (am asking sincerely).

Well, Hunters have a quite similar bleed, but it isn't horizontally stackable (the same Hunter can't put the bleed on again until the other runs out) and it requires a small induction.

The bleed from Brutal Assault is definitely stackable with the bleed from Thrust + StW. Is it stackable with another bleed from Brutal Assault? I'm not certain, but I'm fairly confident the answer is yes. If they increased the bleed to a 100% chance, they would definitely need to make it not stackable with other Brutal Assault bleeds.

The Hunter bleed is also a bit of an exception, anyway, I believe. Burglars for example get a tiny wee bleed that is about 5x smaller than Brutal Assault (it does have a stackable chance, but only fools would try to stack it - and there are a lot of fools out there who do try). They also have another DoT that is still smaller, but at least comparable to our bleed in terms of total damage (5s per tick over 30s though, so much slower) but has a looong cooldown, an induction, and must be applied from behind.


I do agree with you that the legendary should be improved (even though I run 5 red most of the time, I usually don't bother slotting it due to the ridiculous cost in silver for switching traits, which only gives a minimal gains in dps), just not that much. Perhaps a 100% chance with no stacking ability (at least not with other Brutal Assault bleeds, and maybe also not with a Thrust+StW) would be a good compromise.

[head0nfire]

Just to clear this up, SS = Shield Smash. Shield Swipe is fast, like the rest of the block/parry chains (except the legendaries).

The bleed from Brutal Assault is definitely stackable with the bleed from Thrust + StW. Is it stackable with another bleed from Brutal Assault? I'm not certain, but I'm fairly confident the answer is yes. If they increased the bleed to a 100% chance, they would definitely need to make it not stackable with other Brutal Assault bleeds.

Why? Are legendaries supposed to be on-par with basic skills?
I see what you're saying, and if Barbed Arrow stacked with itself that would be horribly OP because traited it would have a 20s duration and a 1.5s CD. But Brutal Assault would be a 30s duration on a 15s CD. One guard could only actually stack it twice, which would make guard bleeds (when fully KB traited) about as powerful as warg bleeds (assuming the warg opens with Bloody Maul)

[Evendale]

Just to clear this up, SS = Shield Smash. Shield Swipe is fast, like the rest of the block/parry chains (except the legendaries).

That makes more sense, and yes I agree that it should be made a "fast" skill.

Why? Are legendaries supposed to be on-par with basic skills?

No, but if you slot Hemorrhage as is now, Brutal Assault already becomes our best dps skill against mobs that will live (at least close to) 20s (even if not by a large margin). Making it twice as good (50% --> 100%) will make it too much better than any of our other basic skills. I never thought I'd be arguing against moar dps, but I don't think you realize how much of a difference this would make.

[DackRover]

That makes more sense, and yes I agree that it should be made a "fast" skill.



No, but if you slot Hemorrhage as is now, Brutal Assault already becomes our best dps skill against mobs that will live (at least close to) 20s (even if not by a large margin). Making it twice as good (50% --> 100%) will make it too much better than any of our other basic skills. I never thought I'd be arguing against moar dps, but I don't think you realize how much of a difference this would make.

Yes...it would make ~25% more....calculated on an assumption that the bleed does ~50% of the total damage...but hits only 50% of the time...thus, we'd be getting ~25% more total damage across a sequence of hits. Not too much to ask from a 5 line legendasry, imo. Yes...it is 20s, the dev's discussed that a single guard should potentially be able to self-stack Hem for a one or two pulse overlap at most (they actually said exactly one, but i am extrapolating the time it takes the skill to fire, and think 2 might theoretically be possible, ticks at 18s and 20s over 2s and 4s). I have not observed it yet, and do not think that aspect is a major concern against the 100% bleed either way. Yes Hem stacks on top of thrust/StW...two different types of bleeds, essentially...but thrust/StW does not self-stack at all.

Thrust is a 100% bleed btw, but then need to be aggrivated by StW to be worthwhile...thus there are TWO chances to be B/P/E'd before netting approx 50-65% the dmg of a bleed from Hem. Don't forget, even with a 100% bleed on Hem, if the hit misses, there is no bleed dmg from hit and no dmg from bleed either. Not too OP, imo...just right...like a warm bowl of porridge or a comfortable bed

We wants it...its our birfday....gives it to us!

[Damsulegna]

Don't forget that TTT needs to pull all our fellows out of stun. Not much good starting an FM against a target if half the group is still stunned from the AoE stun you're reacting to.

Agreed... Good Idea

[Evendale]

Yea, I did exaggerate a bit there when I said the skill would be twice as good, hehe.

When the bleed occurs, it is for 98 per tick for 10 ticks, so it actually does about 2/3 of the total damage of the skill. If you increased the bleed chance to 100%, the skill would do around 50% more damage overall (assuming the bleed is given enough time to complete all ticks).

And yea, you make a good point that the cooldown + animation time for BA is close to 20s, so stacking bleeds isn't really the issue I thought it was.

In the end I don't know if its too much. I would certainly be extremely happy if the skill was improved this much though, that's for sure.

[DackRover]

I would certainly be extremely happy if the skill was improved this much though, that's for sure.

I agree