Feedback: New Player Tips for Weavers

[Frelorn]

Over the next few weeks we will be focusing on the classes in our Tell the Community Team threads. In keeping with that theme, we want your help. If you could give one tip to a new player about playing a Weaver, what would it be?

[Ozthorn]

Accept that you are squishy and will die a lot, especially early on.

[MummyLord]

I'd advise them to play another class as they are the most forgotten mp class when it comes to Turbine. They are fairly strong at higher ranks but early on you are basically fodder. First what should be your main weapon, your ranged webbed, it is mostly just a minor incovenience to a target as they are free almost immediately if damaged. Most of your attacks have to occur at range but at only 30m you are often the target of choice for the enemy and while the your attack can have an effect it takes a long time to be a bother to free persons running around with 5k plus in morale.

Up close where spiders should shine you are too slow to do much. Your stun which was a cj is too slow and short-ranged to use very often. Your close range attacks are weak with the exception of melee bite that can stun after several seconds but is easily cured. When you need to escape you are left with a quick burrow which is simply a 60 second delay in your death and a call to party so all the free persons in the area can congeal over your grave waiting to get a small piece of you. Your strongest weapon is web of the earth which is simply a slow and while it can be used to hinder freeps in battle it does nothing to help you against the plethora of ranged damage and holds the enemy has at their disposal.

So your long burrow is your only hope to have any chance at a fight. It gives you a chance to pick your fight but ties you to one spot for long periods and to get into position to burrow can mean several deaths since you are such an easy target.

So the moral of the story is you have to group or raid up and play follow the leader till your rank is high enough that you start to instill some fear in the free peoples hearts and once that happens you will be so unskilled in combat that you are just another cog in a wheel helpless to act on your own.

I'm sorry this is downbeat but I've been a weaver since I came to the moors over 2 years ago and have watched them be turned into a poor copy of a loremaster instead of an evil spider that haunts the nightmares of those evil free people.

[Yicky]

Read the Weaver Monster manual

www.theblackappendage.com/monstermanual

[MysterX]

If you are new to the class, join a group to get some infamy, but don't expect a rez when you die.

[SeigneurDude]

I'd advise them to play another class as they are the most forgotten mp class when it comes to Turbine. They are fairly strong at higher ranks but early on you are basically fodder. First what should be your main weapon, your ranged webbed, it is mostly just a minor incovenience to a target as they are free almost immediately if damaged. Most of your attacks have to occur at range but at only 30m you are often the target of choice for the enemy and while the your attack can have an effect it takes a long time to be a bother to free persons running around with 5k plus in morale.

Up close where spiders should shine you are too slow to do much. Your stun which was a cj is too slow and short-ranged to use very often. Your close range attacks are weak with the exception of melee bite that can stun after several seconds but is easily cured. When you need to escape you are left with a quick burrow which is simply a 60 second delay in your death and a call to party so all the free persons in the area can congeal over your grave waiting to get a small piece of you. Your strongest weapon is web of the earth which is simply a slow and while it can be used to hinder freeps in battle it does nothing to help you against the plethora of ranged damage and holds the enemy has at their disposal.

So your long burrow is your only hope to have any chance at a fight. It gives you a chance to pick your fight but ties you to one spot for long periods and to get into position to burrow can mean several deaths since you are such an easy target.

So the moral of the story is you have to group or raid up and play follow the leader till your rank is high enough that you start to instill some fear in the free peoples hearts and once that happens you will be so unskilled in combat that you are just another cog in a wheel helpless to act on your own.

I'm sorry this is downbeat but I've been a weaver since I came to the moors over 2 years ago and have watched them be turned into a poor copy of a loremaster instead of an evil spider that haunts the nightmares of those evil free people.

Well written.


Nevertheless, if you like the idea of playing a big bad spider, go right ahead and make one. They are still a lot of fun to play, even if they do sometimes blow up like moths in a flame...

[Perfectlotus]

Adopt the mentality of a trapdoor spider. As in be patient and choose your prey carefully.

/Silkdawn

[NYSEguy1970]

First off, spiders do have their drawbacks and one is that they are very weak at low ranks. You almost have no survivability solo until rank 5 or 6, however if you are plucky enough to decide to not be dissuaded by the others who have posted in this thread, then let me try to give you a few pointers.


1) Know your NPCs. Something that will enhance your survivability is dragging your enemies into NPCs. As a spider, you can utilize NPCs that are friendly to you (obviously) and get them to aggro any freeps you drag into them. You can then burrow and hope that the NPCs are too much for the freeps to handle and they are driven off, or that the NPCs weaken the freeps enough that you can pop from your burrow and finish the job.

However, spiders can also utilize NPCs that are also hostile to both creeps and freeps. This would include the Darktide wolves, the polar bears, the trees. In fact these NPCs probably are more helpful because if you are running into them, you are grabbing their initial aggro, which many times embolden the freeps giving chase to follow you into their midst. When you burrow, you drop their aggro and now the freeps are the one acquiring the aggro when the npc's reset.

2) Don't stop moving. I have found that a still spider quickly gets spotted and focused. Use your run and gun tainted kiss skill to always keep on the move. try not to just sit still and slug it out, especially at low rank. You won't have the DPS to be effective as a 'finisher'. IMO you should be harassing by spreading your poison dot and power drain around as much as possible, then debuffing the feep that appears to be getting focused fired to make it easier to bring them down.

So, if you are trying to keep on the move you have to know what skills are run and gun and what skills require you to remain stationary.

Obviously any skill with an induction requires you to be still, but there are a few "instacast" skills we have that still have stationary to use.

IIRC Run and Gun:

Latent Poison
Piercing Attack
Tainted Kiss
Venomous Haze
Poison Spray
Hatchlings
WTE

Instacast/Stationary

Toxin
Lethal Kiss

[Sezneg]

The first few ranks of any creep class are pretty rough, and I would recommend working on maps/destiny points from quests as your first priority. You need your passives, and skills ASAP. Mapping up first means that when you DO rank, you have the destiny points saved up for your new goodies. Here are some combat tips for lower rank spiders:

1. Entangling Web is your most vital debuff. 30% attack duration is a big deal, it will prolong the fight and give your slow and steady damage more time to work.

2. When a freep melee opponent gets in your face, don't panic. Turning your back to him will only make it easier for him to hit you, and since you lack web the earth or the 10% run speed buff from our racial trait (both available at rank 5) you will not get him/her off your backside without help. It's far better to keep yourself facing your opponent; you have pretty decent avoidances (parry/evade especially) and you will take less hits just from facing your enemy.

3. Spiders work best when they "set up" for fights. Use your web to hold someone long enough to hit an induction debuff like entangling web. Later on you will have other/better ways to get your inductions off, but starting off this is your best bet.

4. Use latent poison (once you have it) As early in the fight as you can. It lowers your targets maximum power by 450 or so, that's power your opponent will no longer have at their disposal. The stun will likely be removed with a potion, but if not 10 seconds is a VERY long stun.

5. Have fun. Being a low ranked creep is not supposed to be "fair". We start off weak, and you will die a lot. Try to keep things in perspective, it WILL get better and you WILL be stronger for it with a few ranks under your belt.

The weaver is a very rewarding and entertaining class to play. Once you master the finer points you are one of the strongest solo friendly classes on either side.

[NYSEguy1970]

Nice pointers all.

Also, know that LP is also good because it won't break a mez or root.

Use the immobilization of your quarry (by mez or root) to debuff them as much as you can and get LP on them, since none of those will break the web or mez.

[ti-pere]

Nice pointers all.

Also, know that LP is also good because it won't break a mez or root.

Use the immobilization of your quarry (by mez or root) to debuff them as much as you can and get LP on them, since none of those will break the web or mez.

The probleme with what you are saying is that since root and mez or on the same diminishing return as stun, your combination is not good cause your root will chop 5 seconde on your 10 seconde stun. So you will wait 15 seconde for a 5 seconde stunt instead of a 10 seconde stun.

What i usualy do if you dont get suprised, really important when your a spiders is to strike the first, i trow the +30% attack duration debuff, than tanted kiss, when in melee piercing attack and LP. That way, the freep will attack you less, you have 2 DOT on him + your auto attack, and afther 15 seconde if the stun proc, ( cause it can be resisted) You reply a fresh tainted kiss and a piercing attack, than get away, turn around, when the stun is over root, reapply entangling web, tainted kiss and wait for the root to break, try to stay in range if its a melee, more long the fight is, more adventage you are taking of it with your DOT.

If in trouble, use trapdoor sanctuary to recover some of your cooldown and a bit of moral ( if you have used food before the fight this will make more difference)

This is the way i do with only low ranked skill. Passive skill a veary important, get them as soon as possible. The weaver is not a classe that will finish and doing big hits, its a bit of CC, bit of range and bit of melee. The weaver is not the best in anny situation, but can work on anny kind of situation. It can range, CC, do some melee. They are hard to play before R5, when you get R5 and 6 you begin to have more fun.

[chris10x]

The probleme with what you are saying is that since root and mez or on the same diminishing return as stun, your combination is not good cause your root will chop 5 seconde on your 10 seconde stun. So you will wait 15 seconde for a 5 seconde stunt instead of a 10 seconde stun.

What i usualy do if you dont get suprised, really important when your a spiders is to strike the first, i trow the +30% attack duration debuff, than tanted kiss, when in melee piercing attack and LP. That way, the freep will attack you less, you have 2 DOT on him + your auto attack, and afther 15 seconde if the stun proc, ( cause it can be resisted) You reply a fresh tainted kiss and a piercing attack, than get away, turn around, when the stun is over root, reapply entangling web, tainted kiss and wait for the root to break, try to stay in range if its a melee, more long the fight is, more adventage you are taking of it with your DOT.

If in trouble, use trapdoor sanctuary to recover some of your cooldown and a bit of moral ( if you have used food before the fight this will make more difference)

This is the way i do with only low ranked skill. Passive skill a veary important, get them as soon as possible. The weaver is not a classe that will finish and doing big hits, its a bit of CC, bit of range and bit of melee. The weaver is not the best in anny situation, but can work on anny kind of situation. It can range, CC, do some melee. They are hard to play before R5, when you get R5 and 6 you begin to have more fun.

If someone is on a horse, you're going to have to root or mez to hold them still/knock them off.

-Eightlegged

[thisisanewname]

the best advice i could give (besides get used to dying) is to watch the higher ranked weavers on your server. it seems to me (on brandywine at least) that all of the high ranked spiders have there own style. each seems to have at least 1 think that they excel at. so if u watch (or even ask questions) and learn u take bits and peices from other spiders and form your own style. at high ranks a spider is an amazing class with lots of tools at there disposal but its a matter of finding the best use of skills. (even skills that may appear useless have some good uses)

[Ezelohar]

I'd advise them to play another class as they are the most forgotten mp class when it comes to Turbine. They are fairly strong at higher ranks but early on you are basically fodder. First what should be your main weapon, your ranged webbed, it is mostly just a minor incovenience to a target as they are free almost immediately if damaged. Most of your attacks have to occur at range but at only 30m you are often the target of choice for the enemy and while the your attack can have an effect it takes a long time to be a bother to free persons running around with 5k plus in morale.

Up close where spiders should shine you are too slow to do much. Your stun which was a cj is too slow and short-ranged to use very often. Your close range attacks are weak with the exception of melee bite that can stun after several seconds but is easily cured. When you need to escape you are left with a quick burrow which is simply a 60 second delay in your death and a call to party so all the free persons in the area can congeal over your grave waiting to get a small piece of you. Your strongest weapon is web of the earth which is simply a slow and while it can be used to hinder freeps in battle it does nothing to help you against the plethora of ranged damage and holds the enemy has at their disposal.

So your long burrow is your only hope to have any chance at a fight. It gives you a chance to pick your fight but ties you to one spot for long periods and to get into position to burrow can mean several deaths since you are such an easy target.

So the moral of the story is you have to group or raid up and play follow the leader till your rank is high enough that you start to instill some fear in the free peoples hearts and once that happens you will be so unskilled in combat that you are just another cog in a wheel helpless to act on your own.

I'm sorry this is downbeat but I've been a weaver since I came to the moors over 2 years ago and have watched them be turned into a poor copy of a loremaster instead of an evil spider that haunts the nightmares of those evil free people.

Disregard all of the above. This player, simply put, is a purblind noob. He GOLDTAGS for 100% of his infamy, so has absolutely ZERO solo play experience. I also highly doubt he has any substantial PvP experience on anything except a Weaver, therefore everything he writes is dripping with bias. If he actually fought 1v1s he would realise that ranked Weavers are THE most diverse and potentially powerful solo Creep class. The end.

[Perfectlotus]

Disregard all of the above. This player, simply put, is a purblind noob. He GOLDTAGS for 100% of his infamy, so has absolutely ZERO solo play experience. I also highly doubt he has any substantial PvP experience on anything except a Weaver, therefore everything he writes is dripping with bias. If he actually fought 1v1s he would realise that ranked Weavers are THE most diverse and potentially powerful solo Creep class. The end.

Mummy might have his own little style, but hes definatly not a noob and I couldnt find anything in particular that was wrong with what he said. He basicly say the same as the rest of us. Its hard in the begining ranks.

/Silkdawn

[Ezelohar]

Mummy might have his own little style, but hes definatly not a noob and I couldnt find anything in particular that was wrong with what he said. He basicly say the same as the rest of us. Its hard in the begining ranks.

/Silkdawn

I wouldn't say its his own... goldtaggers probably make up half the Moors' population. His post was extreme. He exagurated and understated to make Weavers look **** - wrong. Also, all the descriptions/scenarios in the post were based on a goldtagging perspective (press 1 dot, wait, ~30 infamy), which could be easily manipulated to make any class look bad (and he took full advantage of this).

[NYSEguy1970]

I wouldn't say its his own... goldtaggers probably make up half the Moors' population. His post was extreme. He exagurated and understated to make Weavers look **** - wrong. Also, all the descriptions/scenarios in the post were based on a goldtagging perspective (press 1 dot, wait, ~30 infamy), which could be easily manipulated to make any class look bad (and he took full advantage of this).

mummy abhors raiding and is solo all the time...the reason being is that his system can't handle the large amount of data in large group on group fighting, so you are completely wrong.

he roams solo, and does what he can to avoid the large group on group fighting that is the bread and butter of typical goldtaggers.

[thisisanewname]

Disregard all of the above. This player, simply put, is a purblind noob. He GOLDTAGS for 100% of his infamy, so has absolutely ZERO solo play experience. I also highly doubt he has any substantial PvP experience on anything except a Weaver, therefore everything he writes is dripping with bias. If he actually fought 1v1s he would realise that ranked Weavers are THE most diverse and potentially powerful solo Creep class. The end.

mummy is probably if not the most 1 of the most experienced solo creeps on brandywine and probably any server. he has on multiple times gotten rank 6+ on a spider all solo.

and since when does if someone plays solo matter to u i thought any1 who plays solo is some form of "cheater" cuz this game isn't designed for solo play ?

everything mummy says is true. playing as a new spider is probably the roughest of all classes freep or creep yet later on they become 1 of the most powerful as well.

[Ezelohar]

I think not.

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...quot&highlight=

[MummyLord]

I think not.

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...uot&highlight=

Maybe you should read the thread you posted. Then maybe you can explain why you brought it up.

[dr_willis]

Disregard all of the above. This player, simply put, is a purblind noob. He GOLDTAGS for 100% of his infamy, so has absolutely ZERO solo play experience. I also highly doubt he has any substantial PvP experience on anything except a Weaver, therefore everything he writes is dripping with bias. If he actually fought 1v1s he would realise that ranked Weavers are THE most diverse and potentially powerful solo Creep class. The end.

Sorry but
"Weavers are THE most diverse and potentially powerful solo Creep class."
rather funny..
bet he is a freep that thinks they should bring back DF because hunters are under powered

[MummyLord]

Soloing is really what I do but that's the word that folks use since I don't group or raid. I never said I don't like to be in battles. I would just rather make my own decisions in a fight. And just so you know when you aren't grouped/raided you get no extra inf from others fights. If I help on a kill I only get credit for the small amount of damage I do so you can call it gold tagging but then you have to call anyone that damages something I'm fighting and takes most if not all the infamy the same. 3/4 of all I do does not earn infamy and I am not content to just hang back and pew pew for infamy. If you've seen my in a fight and pay attention you will see me debuffing, webbing alot more than I am damaging (other than autoattack) so quite often I will web a foe, debuff him in one of a few ways and then have another come back and slam him dead quickly. Net result: 0-7inf. I helped killed dozens of foes today for 58inf total over an hours time so if you really need to call it goldtagging there's nothing I can do about it.

Now about being a weaver. I know my post above was negative and I shouldn't of posted it but that's what happens when you play a class for 3 years and watch it sink in it's overall effect in fights with only higher ranked spiders making a dent. So most lotro folks just raid up and cruise to rank 6ish to save the pain of ranking slowly or having to play for 20 hours a day. So my play style is not recommended and it's the reason I have been rank 5 for months (1-2 hours a day of on and off play usually spent trying to guess where the fight is) getting small bits of inf unless I happen to run into a smaller fight and win (which I don't tend to do often).

Over all though I would not play any other class as most are too much work (I'm old so lots of keystrokes and mouse work wear me out) or too visible for easy ganking or just too easy to play carefully. I'm about 2650 approx. to r6 and I might make it in 26 more days if I play everyday. But when I am playing I am having fun and mostly dieing. That cant be all bad.

[Imadwarfdude]

Well. For those who havnt been run off by all the Hostility an long fight Messages.. This is my tips an experiences below..

Weavers are squishy overall. You dont wanna be at the head of a group in a raid or group when fighting. When solo you want to be smart an pick your targets smartly..

Hunters: Web them with your attack speed debuff then run up on them, use your Stun which you get at rank 3 i believe, it is Latent Poison, which stuns them after 10 seconds and removes a good chunk of their Power. After that, use your Bite dot. Follow it up with Tainted Kiss, an then run around them in melee distance so they cant use any of their good moves that are induction timers. Make sure to use all your moves when their up. If your high enough of a rank, you should also use your Haze's an Sprays. The hunter should die rather quickly.

Guardians: These are dangerous an if not handled smart will kill you when they get to you. You wanna Root them in place, use your Attack speed slower, an then start out with Tainted kiss. Wait for them to run at you. Use your ranged moves till they get to you, then apply your stun. Then your Melee bite dot. When they are stunned, IF it works, Back up a small bit, slightly out of melee distance an continue your attack. Keep all moves an debuffs on them. Make sure you also use your Agility debuff, Which is a Spray. Which is obtained i believe at rank 2 or rank 3.

Burglers: These guys will be your biggest problem ever. Your chances overall of winning are low off the bat, cause they more then likely stun locked you an got you dead by now almost. If you can, saftly, run. If not, use your Root if you can. More then likely not due to them running all around. If it works, back up. Put your attack speed debuff, then Your ranged dot, ranged attack move, when he gets close, if he doesnt stun you. Use your melee dot bite. DO NOT STUN THEM. They will get a heal that heals them. Theres very little overall you can do vs a Burgler. Sad fact.

Ministril: They have heavy damage despite them being good heals. When you get to rank 4, you will get Toxin, a move that drains their Power. If you are not that rank, more then likely you cant solo easily any how. But, use your Posion ranged dot, run up an use Latent posion stun, then melee dot, then if you are rank 2 or rank 3, use your Haze, which lowers their ranged skills by 10 yards. Then just use all moves possible an kill em.

I dont have a lot of info but this should be enough for now. Ill post more later. Enjoy.

[NYSEguy1970]

Burglers: These guys will be your biggest problem ever. Your chances overall of winning are low off the bat, cause they more then likely stun locked you an got you dead by now almost. If you can, saftly, run. If not, use your Root if you can. More then likely not due to them running all around. If it works, back up. Put your attack speed debuff, then Your ranged dot, ranged attack move, when he gets close, if he doesnt stun you. Use your melee dot bite. DO NOT STUN THEM. They will get a heal that heals them. Theres very little overall you can do vs a Burgler. Sad fact.

not necessarily.....

if you stun/mez a burg, imo do it very early in the fight. the hack burgs will burn FF before they can benefit from the heal (because they haven't taken enough damage) and most of our dps is dot based and bypasses a b/p/e check so the b/p/e boost from FF so that won't be an issue either.

I like fighting burgs, and if it's just one i'm confident of a win (even if they get the drop on me). The problem with burgs (like wargs) is there is seldom just one....usually I'm jumped by 2-3. 2 and I can probably get to safety...3+ and I'm probably dead before i emerge from the initial stun, and 1 I'll usually force to hips away and run as the fight turns against them. (occasionally a solo burg will stay to fight, but not often)

[dubsyubsy]

Vs. BUR is actually the only matchup I really like on my Weaver. With all those dots and debuffs, most of what a BUR does is seriously handicapped. Even HiPS doesn't help much, because with their run speed slowed, with a root possibly being in place for a second or two, and with all that damage over time ticking away after HiPS has worn off, this kind of battle is one of the only ones where I've reliably seen BURs get into real trouble.