Concerning Rollbacks

[BrotherBab]

Rampant they are, and pain they bring. Rollbacks and freezes are annoying us all. While the patch addressed the skill lag upon crossing server lines, rollbacks still exist. I have mainly seen them occur when fighting around TR HS/TR/Dragon Rock and around LC (especially just north of it).

I henceforth put it to leaders, both creep and freep to AVOID fighting in those spots. Now is the time to move the fight around the map to lesser used locations. Around HH. the SW corner of the map (Open field near the OP). Recently a blue lug has resulted in almost no rollbacks when fighting behind lug, in lug, on lug hill, or at the rez. When fighting at lug crossroads, rollbacks can and do occur. Let's keep them away from there. Death valley is okay, as long as you are far enough in to avoid the Coldfells/Hithlad line. Near the old LC Hotspot (SOP/GG), the waterfall.

Please, leaders on both sides, find new locations, let's use them and enjoy fighting at them. The more we can fight without having lag and rollbacks, the smoother PvP will flow and the happier everyone will be. See you all in Grothum!!!!

-Evilspinnre

[ldonney]

I got a better one...it involves Turbine just fixing the problem =P

[Skullflayer]

+2k inf roll back last night at GTA. Biggest rb ive had yet ever.

[Beastnas]

Rollbacks happen anywhere and everywhere with sufficient people, even a long way from the nearest server line in random places like outside GV/Grams and Lug Hill. Server lines just make the issue more pronounced.

While I appreciate your positive ideas Evil, I find it very silly we players would have to resort to these kinds of measures to have fun in the Moors. Here is a small map out of all of LotRO to cater to the PvP fans, but only playable in certain parts of this map because Turbine is too fail to fix it.

It's quite sad really, I used to enjoy the game.

[Kateraid]

I beg to differ about the skill lag. I encountered exactly that when running from LC toward EC... and ultimately ended up in a rollback. Saddest part was that we weren't even fighting. I was using an SOP skill on the run. 600 renown lost. THE MOORS ARE NOT FIXED. Whatever they did to the moors with the F2P launch needs to be reversed or fixed ASAP or this game stands to lose a large population of its veteran community. We already lost two since yesterday's "update" and I'm already looking for other games. SWTOR can't happen fast enough. How many more do they have to lose before they do something about this?

Wake up, Turbine.

*edit* In response to your post, Evil... I'd like to add the AE outpost to the list of possible places to fight. Arrik likes OP's in general, but I never seem to have any problems there.

[Kateraid]

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...13#post5100613

Can you please add the lag/rollbacks in the moors to your list of known issues? I mean, you do know about them right? If not, please check the Brandywine PvP forums. Turbine is losing veteran players over this. It's been happening since September's F2P launch.

[Bronglas]

I know this is completely off topic, and I apologize for that. I have to say, however, that the @somename shorthand drives me absolutely bonkers. It's especially horrifying when it's used outside of Twitter. I actually received an email yesterday, addressed only to me, with the salutation being simply:

@Mike-

I almost blew a gasket.

[Kateraid]

I know this is completely off topic, and I apologize for that. I have to say, however, that the @somename shorthand drives me absolutely bonkers. It's especially horrifying when it's used outside of Twitter. I actually received an email yesterday, addressed only to me, with the salutation being simply:

@Mike-

I almost blew a gasket.

@Bronglas -- *giggles* I couldn't resist.

[Kateraid]

I just noticed that the lag/rollbacks aren't even listed as part of the known issues thread. *sigh*

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...e-Known-issues

[Celestrata]

Merged the General Discussion @sapience thread with the thread here on the subject.

Can you guys provide any more information on what exactly is happening with these rollbacks? Is it just your infamy and renown, or is any other stat or item being rolled back on your character? Does it only occur when you perceive crossing a server line, or does it happen out of the blue?

The more information we have on what's going on, the more we can lock things down. Plus, if you haven't done it yet, please open a bug report either in-game with /bug or by following this link: http://forums.lotro.com/new_bug.php?

We've passed the information along though, so the team is looking into it.

~Celestrata

[Drauglorn]

Merged the General Discussion @sapience thread with the thread here on the subject.

Can you guys provide any more information on what exactly is happening with these rollbacks? Is it just your infamy and renown, or is any other stat or item being rolled back on your character? Does it only occur when you perceive crossing a server line, or does it happen out of the blue?

The more information we have on what's going on, the more we can lock things down. Plus, if you haven't done it yet, please open a bug report either in-game with /bug or by following this link: http://forums.lotro.com/new_bug.php?

We've passed the information along though, so the team is looking into it.

~Celestrata

The creep quest trackers are now working, nice work !

[TheMinstrel]

We should fight in the J-spot, maybe there will be no issues there.

[IceTeaMan]

Merged the General Discussion @sapience thread with the thread here on the subject.

Can you guys provide any more information on what exactly is happening with these rollbacks? Is it just your infamy and renown, or is any other stat or item being rolled back on your character? Does it only occur when you perceive crossing a server line, or does it happen out of the blue?

The more information we have on what's going on, the more we can lock things down. Plus, if you haven't done it yet, please open a bug report either in-game with /bug or by following this link: http://forums.lotro.com/new_bug.php?

We've passed the information along though, so the team is looking into it.

~Celestrata

I have not had this problem yet.
it would appear that some players are being droped by the server, when they log back in they log into an older saved game.
ether the server is not saving when it drops these players or the save game is corruped
& the last good save game is loaded.

maybe you should host an event in the moors & watch what is happening as it happens to resolve this isuse q;

[Draugrim]

Merged the General Discussion @sapience thread with the thread here on the subject.

Can you guys provide any more information on what exactly is happening with these rollbacks? Is it just your infamy and renown, or is any other stat or item being rolled back on your character? Does it only occur when you perceive crossing a server line, or does it happen out of the blue?

The more information we have on what's going on, the more we can lock things down. Plus, if you haven't done it yet, please open a bug report either in-game with /bug or by following this link: http://forums.lotro.com/new_bug.php?

We've passed the information along though, so the team is looking into it.

~Celestrata

The rollbacks affect EVERYTHING on your character.

If you used Stun/Root pots, power pots, whatever, you will be rolled back to where you have them again (anywhere from 5 - 15 minutes back in time) to whatever state you were at then. AFK on South Bridge, in the middle of a field, whatever.

You lose ALL Infamy/Renown/Rating acquired during this time, and your Total Deaths and KD Ratio also reverse respectively.

Any long-cooldown skills that you used will be off-cooldown if you were rollback prior to their use.

It's as if you hadn't even been logged in for those 15 minutes.

The symptoms of an impending rollback are:

• Unable to move
• Dotted lines surrounding your skills as you try to use them, and not disappearing
• You can see everyone else moving and talking in Raid
• About 15 seconds after being rooted in place you are immediately sent to the Character Selection Screen.
• Upon re-entry into the game, you are no longer in your Raid or Group, However, you can still hear the Voice Chat Streams from the Gamespy VoIP engine, so you can hear your raid, even though you are not in it.
• Upon rejoining the raid, everything appears normal to you, except your fellow raiders observe you sliding around in whatever animation you were in when you got rolled back

It always happens on lag lines (server lines, i.e. Hoardale-Coldfells).
The server line near River OP, next to the Old Hotspot location, hit us really hard last night -- approx. 9 people on each side had treadmillers-rollbacks. Terrible.
However, it is possible that rollbacks happen at locations unaffiliated with server lines. I was rolled back in the middle of the Auroch Herd just the other day (Buffalo Beach), and I'm not aware of too many server lines near where I was rolled back, unless it was the longitudinal line of Hoardale-Hithlad.

I have been rolled back over twenty times in the past couple weeks, so send me a Forum message if you want more info, Celestrata.

And THANK YOU for taking interest in this and trying to fix it.

Meregash, out.

Edit: Beastwise is correct -- rollbacks have happened just down from Gramsfoot, which is nowhere near a server line.
That being said, however, the probability of having a rollback on a serverline is dramatically increased.

[Kateraid]

Hello Celestrata - Thanks for replying. I'd like to urge everyone to respond to your questions with real answers. Frustrations are at an all-time high, and the urge to lash out is imminent, but PLEASE take this OPPORTUNITY to explain what's going on to you while we have a GM's attention. Be as cynical as you wish outside of this thread.

Every time I think I'm getting rolled back, I take a screenshot of my wartab. All stats get rolled back, including deaths, KB's, rating, etc etc. As an aside, any items in bags that were looted between point A and point B are removed. It seems like a full-blown rollback.

The amount of rollback seems to vary. Sometimes I don't lose any renown, but I'm pretty sure it's because the raid was sitting around waiting for action. It's almost like it rolls back to XX amount of time prior. So the amount of renown/infamy/stats lost depends on the amount gained during that time period. However, I've heard of one instance where someone got rolled back to Rivendell after being in the moors for a while.

Here are some threads on this Brandywine PVP forum, each of which have posts re: the lag/rollbacks, etc. Some already have details of exactly what happened to individuals.


http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...ght-rediculous

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...stop-rollbacks

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...-State-of-PvMP


There are several issues, each of which happen in different areas. Here's a bullet point list of what happens to ME, hopefully more will reply with corrections, additions, personal experiences of their own:

Rollbacks - more often in large Raid-vs-Raid fights, but my last rollback occured AFTER the update, with zero fighting happening. I was using an SOP skill while headed toward Elf Camp from Lumber Camp.

Skill Lag - most often in longer fights that move into a zone line area. ie. Good TA map-in spot near the cows, moving toward Hoarhallow. Also on the opposite side of the river, moving in the same direction. I've also experienced this on the hill down from TR, just north of TR's old hot spot.

Invalid Target - When victims run across certain server lines, they become "invalid targets" which renders my skills useless unless I follow them over said server line. In some cases, combat stance is lost along with attunement, focus, etc etc. (Yes I play other toons aside from my LM, people! haha) In other cases, victims exploit these lines to escape death. The areas that come to mind immediately are... Orc Camp inside and out, down the hill from TR from the old TR hotspot all the way to the road, and Elf Camp inside and out.


I will do my best to spread the word about this thread and have folks post details. At this point, we just want it to work. Of course we'd like some attention and love prior to next fall, but ultimately, the PvP portion of this game is just unplayable as is. I'll thank you in advance for anything you can do to facilitate improvement in a zone we love so dearly!

Thanks again, Celestrata.

[Sapience]

Thus far the only reports we're seeing on this issue are on Brandywine. When you report this please be sure you include exactly what you were doing, where (a /loc would be best) and specify what you lost (list infamy, items, etc). Also be sure to let us know whether you just stuttered, lagged or actually crashed to the desktop completely and had to relaunch the game. All of these things are needed to help us isolate the issue.

Specific information helps us track down the issue. General comments like "it happened again" or "it's still not fixed" just create background noise we have to wade through, delaying any potential resolution. We have the team looking at this.

[Kateraid]

Thus far the only reports we're seeing on this issue are on Brandywine. When you report this please be sure you include exactly what you were doing, where (a /loc would be best) and specify what you lost (list infamy, items, etc). Also be sure to let us know whether you just stuttered, lagged or actually crashed to the desktop completely and had to relaunch the game. All of these things are needed to help us isolate the issue.

I have screenshots of past rollbacks (just prior to actually being kicked to character selection). I will try to revisit each location for an exact /loc and recall what I was doing. Some screenies are obvious, others aren't so much so I'll recall best I can. I will also keep track of when stuttering happens vs. flat out lagging and locations of each. Sometimes I get some of the rollback symptoms that Meregash listed, but am able to "avoid" it if I run far away from the area. And when I say run, I mean slide away in permanent leechcraft animation. lol Other times, there's no escaping it.

It's good to know exactly what you're looking for. I will keep a close eye on this and make a list of notes. I'll also make notes if OTHERS rollback but I don't, etc.

Thanks again for your attention to this.
~Kate

[Draugrim]

Thus far the only reports we're seeing on this issue are on Brandywine. When you report this please be sure you include exactly what you were doing, where (a /loc would be best)

Here are two locations that I got rolled back at recently.
Right click the images and click '"View Image'' (if you are using Firefox) to view at full resolution (1680x1050).
Both of these instances of rollbacks occurred at LEAST 20m away from server lines, which I had NOT recently crossed.


You are at: r1 lx1304 ly1062 ox8.42 oy123.44 oz358.44 h246.1



You are at: r1 lx1261 ly1113 ox114.57 oy37.23 oz459.98 h333.3

and specify what you lost (list infamy, items, etc). Also be sure to let us know whether you just stuttered, lagged or actually crashed to the desktop completely and had to relaunch the game. All of these things are needed to help us isolate the issue.

Here's what I observed:

• I was in a group both times (see the screenshots).
• I was using a healing skill with an induction both times. The heal induction reached fruition but failed to fire -- the 'dancing ants' or 'dotted line' still surrounds the skill. However, I HAVE been rolled back before without any skills in queue.
• I can see other people moving about freely, but I am rooted in place. In the first screenshot, I was immobilized in mid air.
• I sat there, freely able to talk in chat channels and move my camera, for about 15+ seconds.
• Suddenly I was bounced back to the Character Selection Screen, without a warning message, error, or any other reason code.
• I was able to log back in without having to 'Clean Up the Old Connection'
• Upon logging back into the same Toon, I found my location to be anywhere from 5 - 15 minutes old. One time I was rolled back to Gramsfoot after having been playing for about 10 minutes around Tol Ascarnen.
• I had lost all infamy, rating, killing blows, vendor trash, etc. gained during this time.
• A 'ghost' of my toon (targetable by and visible to only a few people) was found at the location at which I was initially rolled back.
• This 'ghost' remained in place, even after I had logged back in, and my real toon was walking around on the other side of the map.
• When I returned to the spot of the Rollback, the 'Ghost' disappeared for all third-party observers, and I was unable to see it.
• I was reported to be sliding around in the healing animation in which I was at the time of the rollback.

These symptoms are almost identical for all my cases of being rolled back, and all other cases that i have witnessed and heard about.

My hypothesis is that every so often, the server creates a backup file of my Toon's current Location, Inventory, Current Infamy, Current Rating, Deed Progress (Killing Blow Deeds), Cooldown timers, quest completions, etc. etc. etc., and one of these backup operations seems to have resulted in a corrupt backup file, thus forcing the server to boot me, and fall back to the last known uncorrupted backup file.

I don't know how you handle Toon data, so that's just from my observations.

Specific information helps us track down the issue. General comments like "it happened again" or "it's still not fixed" just create background noise we have to wade through, delaying any potential resolution. We have the team looking at this.

I wouldn't dream of creating useless background noise. Let me know how I can help more.

[jmez]

Well... this is a start I suppose.

As someone who has lead countless numbers of raids over the past 3+ years I can attest to everyone's frustrations wit the recent developments. Id hate to see this be the boiling point for alot of ppl who have delt wit the lag, server crashes, limited pvp updates, lack of perceived attention to the PvMP in this game, etc etc etc. I'm afraid if this continues w/o a solution there won't be anyone left to see the next xpac next year.

The "rollbacks" are a recently new development to the moors but seem to just be a maturation of the same persistant and ongoing problem of the lag. At first it was just your basic small lag spikes here and there which can be delt wit. Then later it was skill lag and entire server crashes. Then it moved onto players being booted from raid (yes this happened to me several times before F2P launched, players would be kicked to the loading screen but not necc. rolled back anything). Then came the server line lag (which seems to have been fixed, somewhat) You still get invalid target messages to something thats standing on or near a server line (ie hoardale/hithlad etc etc).

Now we not only have all of the above we also have these "rollbacks" They start out as regular lag spikes seemingly. But a big key in the indication that a rollback is coming is that any pots you have equiped on a hotbar become grey'd out. No skills fire off and you cannot move along wit the hearing the ingame chat before and after you have come back....as mere and kate have mentioned. The pot grey bar is the tipper for me however. And yes when this does happen you get booted to the log-in screen and placed back in the world at a point prior to when you left. Anywhere from 5 mins to 1/2 hour at some extreme cases. You loose any renown/infamy you've gained, any kbs or kills you've gained. Basically, as mere said, you weren't even there for that time period and anything you did got deleted.

There have also been issues where a "copy" of players chars remain in the world stuck in whatever animation they were in when they got rolled back. As Kate said often if the player is able to return they will be show preceived by the rest of their raid as... for example being stuck in leachcraft...when on their screen they r fine. The "copy" remains visible by other players but cannot be attacked. Last night I was forced to relog due to a spiders web the earth being perma-stuck on me. I was unable to get back into the game and after about 20 mins of looking at "cleaning up old connection" I went off to work. When I came on today, however, I was told that I was shown as being online all night when I clearly wasnt.

There doesnt seem to be, not to me anyways, any specific reason why these occur and to why it effects some ppl more then others. Beastwise gets rolled back at least 2x an hour. I've only gotten it maybe 6x in the past 3 months. Some players say they never have gotten it. Same classes, same raid, same fight... some get it some dont.

I'll post more details later on but this is a very serious issue and needs to be addressed asap. If not, I honestly dont think theres going to be anyone left to see the new map (if it ever comes) Right now you simply are rolling the dice if your going to have a playable RvR fight or not. No one is going to play this game if they have a 50/50 shot of loosing what they're worked hard to get not because of the nature of the game but b/c of the ability of the game to run and function correctly.

Also, this is not just a BW issue. Maybe it just hasnt been reported as much (or at all) on other servers. But in talking wit ppl I know who do play the majority of the time on other servers it has happened on all of the high pop. servers (Landy, E, Nim to name a few)

[Berso]

[PiggyManHero]

So I had decided to use a couple of vitality stat tomes on my hunter because of the half off deal and I had just gotten my 500 for being VIP.

10 minutes later I got rolled back.

When I logged back in I was missing the +20 vitality and the TP I spent on them. I bugged it, was redirected to website support. Submitted a ticket and haven't received a response in 9 days....awesome.

Actually I just got a response, with regurgitated information that I already told them.

[jmez]

Ill have to start taking SSs of them as they occur but for now here are some pics that show the problem or the results of the problem.



This was after a fight near grams. At the start of the fight we had a full 24 man raid. This is what was left after ppl got booted and rolled back.



Here is after another fight NE of lugs. Again we started wit a 24 man raid and this is what was left after the fight along wit the "standing corpses" of 5 of my raid members and 1 WL. All stuck in the animations they were in when they were booted n rolled back.



This was before the lag line updates. We we're flipping the OP when, as you can see by my mini map, everything disapeared from my screen, including my own raid! Everyone was right there ontop of me but yet, they aren't. They only became visible when we crossed back over the server line.



Again, after another 24 man raid fight at the ec xroads. Started wit 24 ppl. This is after a few invs from ppl coming back. The ppl in the SS are all stuck/lagged out/ got booted from the game n rolled back. All stuck in their animations, both sides.

[Kateraid]

LOLz Jmez... I just noticed your mini map on that OP screenie... they're everywhere! But they're not! hahaha

[Draugrim]

**UPDATE**

**ATTN: SAPIENCE**

I just got rolled back today after playing for only 10 minutes. It happened at the Crossroads south of Elf Camp.

My inventory was emptied at the time of the bug, and all my quickslots that held my maps and potions disappeared.

ALL my skills had the 'dancing ants' or 'dotted line' around them, as I tried to use them all before realizing I was stuck in place and couldn't use skills. The rollback happened About 15 seconds after I realized I was immobalized.




I logged right back in from the Character Selection Screen, got a reinvite to the raid, took 5 steps and got hit with the War Leader bug (I couldn't toggle my Auras, Run Buff, or Stances, and now I'm waiting about 15 minutes at the Cleaning Up Old Connection screen) <--- This Warleader bug is unaffiliated with rollback though, I believe.

[YesMaam]

I don't know what I'm saying by this, but I'll simply say that I play for many hours everyday as everyone knows, in the raids, out of the raids, in the largest fights in the smallest fights, away and in lag lines using skills and I have never, not once been rolled back nor has a few hunters that play with me regularily. Maybe its luck? My comp is getting slightly slower its not top of the line and I have regular connection so thats not the issue. It could be A) Skills while moving B) Certain skills mashed too soon before the last one went off C) Auto used skills that go off fast D) Class related (doubt it). All I know if there are a few people and classes I know that never get rolled back, watch me get it tonight lol, but really its too random to not be something, there has to be something there.