A level 70 Legendary Skill

[JTollers]

Just at that moment all the lights in the cavern went out, and the great fire went off poof! into a tower of blue glowing smoke, right up to the roof, that scattered piercing white sparks all among the goblins.

The yells and yammering, croaking, jibbering and jabbering; howls, growls and curses; shrieking and skriking, that followed were beyond description. Several hundred wild cats and wolves being roasted slowly alive together would not have compared with it. The sparks were burning holes in the goblins, and the smoke that now fell from the roof made the air too thick for even their eyes to see through. Soon they were falling over one another and rolling in heaps on the floor, biting and kicking and fighting as if they had all gone mad.

We'll here's hoping and here's my thought.

Never Late
Trait Requirement: 2 traits from each line.
Trait Effects: +5s to Call to Valar effect, -20% All skills resist rating, +200 Power

Skill Effects:
Range: AoE: 360 degrees up to 6 targets - radius 10M from self
Induction: 0, Channeled - 5seconds - each 1s of channeling tiers up the duration (max 30s) to group effects and the effects to targets in increments to of 1s till 5s channel is done.
Cooldown: 10 Minutes
Effects to group: Cannot be stunned, rooted, dazed or feared, +10% Run speed - 30s

Damage to Targets: 1x-500 Lightning Attack + 3 pulses of 100 Fire DoT

Effects to Targets: 100% Miss Chance, +50% Incoming Damage, -50% Run speed - 15 Seconds
Target Immunity - Nemesis, Arch-Nemesis

[head0nfire]

Great idea! I love it, except for bosses being immune to it. Bosses should probably be immune to the 100% miss chance (and the slow of course), but the rest should be fair game. +rep for this

[seafoodbasket]

NO.

Apart from being ridiculous, u have a channel skill giving a 30s worth of buffs. what happens if u dont finish the channel?
secondly what happnes to all the debuffs if the channeling is interupted. doesi t just stop. i cant see why a skill thats channeled for 5 secs can have debuffs lasting 15s and buffs lasting 30s. Especially debuffs/buffs so powerful.

Aside form being insanly overpowered, whats the point if it cant be used in boss fights - i can really only see it useful in the moors, and if this were a skill there would be a creep outcry and rightly so - 30s immunity to cc including roots and fears (lm only weakness in the moors), whilst giving them no chance to hit you, or run away.

Im all for ideas and specualtion but please make it less on the crazy op godmode nonsense that this type of skill would fall under.

[JTollers]

NO.

Apart from being ridiculous, u have a channel skill giving a 30s worth of buffs. what happens if u dont finish the channel?
secondly what happnes to all the debuffs if the channeling is interupted. doesi t just stop. i cant see why a skill thats channeled for 5 secs can have debuffs lasting 15s and buffs lasting 30s. Especially debuffs/buffs so powerful.

Aside form being insanly overpowered, whats the point if it cant be used in boss fights - i can really only see it useful in the moors, and if this were a skill there would be a creep outcry and rightly so - 30s immunity to cc including roots and fears (lm only weakness in the moors), whilst giving them no chance to hit you, or run away.

Im all for ideas and specualtion but please make it less on the crazy op godmode nonsense that this type of skill would fall under.

It's not riduculous, it's actually a layered down version of what I quoted above. And throwing out trigger words like "godmode" is not constructive or grounded. Burglars can easily run a T6 debuff gamble that is akin to the above 15s debuff, except theirs is actually longer, it can be tiered up and reapplied and stacked with other more slows or -xx% damage. In addition, Burgs can keep a mob down for nearly 75s on a tier-up gamble. This isn't a counterargument for what burglars have that a LM should, it's a counterargument to show that similar things exist.

The skill is also a legendary with a long cooldown requiring a specific trait set-up. The channel if interrupted would prevent the entire skill and the skill would hit reset timer. Having a benefit out last a channel is not uncommon in game mechanics. Channel skills are rare in this game though. Inner Flame now gives an aggro benefit beyond channel duration and its strength is relative to what is even done prior to the channel by the LM.

Bosses are almost always immune to CC and often now even immune to FMs. This doesn't make them valueless.

I didn't mention anything about power cost because this is where I was considering one of the largest setbacks to the skill. It could be a high power cost skill or it can also have a 0ICPR penalty for x time. It also deserves a morale penalty.

The main intent of the post is not to perhaps see an exact duplicate of this skill in game. It is to deposit component ideas in hopes of sparking other creative options for our class or legendary skill mechanics that devs could consider.

Please try to dialog constructively. The forums are a place to share ideas and ask questions etc. There are better ways of asking questions or make statements that could create beneficial dialog.

[Darlgon]

Ok. I initially thought NO, too close to magic. Now, after a reread and rethink.. Yeah, would be cool. Make it the same graphic as fire boss who if you are not close together on his target will kill the stragglers. The one where the LM needs Proof vs All Ills to cure the wounds from the fire. Just it works FOR the fellow not against it. Sigh, sorry, I cant remember the instance or the boss. Hopefully someone can fill in the blanks.

[moebius92]

It's not riduculous, it's actually a layered down version of what I quoted above. And throwing out trigger words like "godmode" is not constructive or grounded. Burglars can easily run a T6 debuff gamble that is akin to the above 15s debuff, except theirs is actually longer, it can be tiered up and reapplied and stacked with other more slows or -xx% damage. In addition, Burgs can keep a mob down for nearly 75s on a tier-up gamble. This isn't a counterargument for what burglars have that a LM should, it's a counterargument to show that similar things exist.

Are you sure about the details of a burglar's debuffing gamble? As I recall, there are two ways to initiate a debuffing gamble: burgle and clever retort. Burgle isn't really an option for continuous use, since using it locks out clever retort, and it's only usable out of combat. Clever retort has a cooldown of 120 seconds, reducible to 90 seconds with the appropriate trait. It's the longest cooldown of the gamble initiating skills. All gambles last for at most 15 seconds (I believe this is to avoid chaining, as you've mentioned). Gamble duration can be recharged and tier maxed via the use of gambler's strike, a skill with a cooldown of 15 seconds, once all legacies and traits are applied. Since cooldown doesn't start ticking down until a skill's animation has finished playing, this means that if you attempt to keep a gamble up permanently by constantly using gambler's strike, you'll miss recharging the first gamble by about half a second.

[Thorvaldheimdal]

Never Late
Trait Requirement: 2 traits from each line.
Trait Effects: +5s to Call to Valar effect, -20% All skills resist rating, +200 Power

Skill Effects:
Range: AoE: 360 degrees up to 6 targets - radius 10M from self
Induction: 0, Channeled - 5seconds
Cooldown: 10 Minutes
Effects to group: Cannot be stunned, rooted, dazed or feared, +10% Run speed - 30s

Damage to Targets: 1x-500 Lightning Attack + 3 pulses of 100 Fire DoT

Effects to Targets: 100% Miss Chance, +50% Incoming Damage, -50% Run speed - 15 Seconds
Target Immunity - Nemesis, Arch-Nemesis

I like it. It does follow the aforementioned quote as well. I like everything about it besides the trait line requirement. In my opinion it should be a "blank-lore" skill affected by the trait.

As for the damage, I think it could even be a bit higher. Keep in mind this is a lvl 70 legendary skill we are talking about here, not a lvl 58 skill "upgrade"...

This would be very powerful in the moors, but if you read the description it is a skill that must be used within melee distance. Still this skill isn't as powerful as oh... say a heal that heals all members of a fellowship for 100% of their morale regardless of the amount. Now that would be OP.

[JTollers]

Are you sure about the details of a burglar's debuffing gamble? As I recall, there are two ways to initiate a debuffing gamble: burgle and clever retort. Burgle isn't really an option for continuous use, since using it locks out clever retort, and it's only usable out of combat. Clever retort has a cooldown of 120 seconds, reducible to 90 seconds with the appropriate trait. It's the longest cooldown of the gamble initiating skills. All gambles last for at most 15 seconds (I believe this is to avoid chaining, as you've mentioned). Gamble duration can be recharged and tier maxed via the use of gambler's strike, a skill with a cooldown of 15 seconds, once all legacies and traits are applied. Since cooldown doesn't start ticking down until a skill's animation has finished playing, this means that if you attempt to keep a gamble up permanently by constantly using gambler's strike, you'll miss recharging the first gamble by about half a second.

Hey Moebius, thanks for the post.

This is what I do on my burg.
1) Run honed wit- this makes CR available when not in MM.
2) I have tools with burg chance, i get off a debuff high end gamble from stealth
3) I throw DITE and CR. I let CR run for about 12s (during the run I get in my crit chain) - I then throw GS to tier it up and reset the timer.
4) Follow up with either another DITE or Disable to maximize the debuff - total around 45s of debuffs.

That together gets me a long debuff that is pretty unmatched today.

I also do something similar when I am looking for more CC. I stealth to run provoke to daze, MG daze a 2nd target, riddle a 3rd. MG I will also tier up during the 15s timer to get a near 75s mez

All to say, you can see akin skills presently in game that don't have 10 minute timers.

I'd also add that LM can already do -110% range damage debuff on one target and -60% on several. I don't like skills not based on the lore. I started with the above quote to see what could be pulled from it.

[seafoodbasket]

so if ur channelling gets interupted you dont get the benefit. - thats an induction not a channeling.

also, what are you going on about burgs being able to keep somthing mezzed for 75s. that has nothing to do with this skill at all. Show me where a burg can give 100% miss chance for 15s. that basically means you cannot be hit for 15s, the enemy is slowed 50%, so they arnt going to be able to get away from you or your group, and they take 50% more dmg. so basically anyone caught in that is going to get one shot by a large number of skills. with no means to counter it.

As for the lm doing -110% ranged dmg. it doesnt work like that. they dont stack toghter. it works out to be around -75-80% of inital dmg. and that is on one dmg type, not a blanket 100% chance to miss. Again i dont know what your going on about burg nonense. yes they have some pretty sweet skills and used together its hard to beat. - but this is one skill, that basically is a i win button for you and your fellowship against anyone caught in mellee range. Someone said about the uruk racial heal. yea its a strong skill, but it by no means grants victory. you can still dps them, still cc ppl, etc. this basically means anyone caught by this skill cannot make any attacks or run away. all they can do is heal each other. - but cus there taking 50% more dmg that aint gona work so well. and for those enemy not caught in the area of effect, they are still going to have a hard time as they can no longer use any form off cc on the ppl in the lms groups.

Also 10mins is not a long cd really.

There is no way you can spin this skill, with all those effects as being balanced or fair. And my lm is my main and i only have a rk as an alt. look at any other single skill in game. nothing even comes close.

[SteveTheMad]

This skill would have to have a debuff duration or magnitude that is relative to the channel length because of the possibility (likelihood, in fact) of the channel being set back and therefore not channelling for five seconds. So if you channel for a total of two seconds (which is about how long you'd channel for if a single NPC was auto-attacking you) it'd get 40% magnitude, that is to say, +40% miss chance, +20% incoming damage and -20% run speed for fifteen seconds, or +100% miss chance, +50% incoming damage and -50% run speed for six seconds.

In the Moors, this skill would obviously have half effect. The full channel (not that you'd ever accomplish that) would only apply +50% miss chance, +25% incoming damage and -25% run speed for seven and a half seconds, which is still nasty, but honestly this could only happen in 1v1. I am kind of apprehensive of this, because I am lead to believe this skill would take a skilled Lore-master from a very strong 1v1 PvP'er to an almost unbeatable one. Perhaps this skill would have to be banned from Monster Play.

I like the concept and even the idea that this skill requires two traits from each line. It is a potentially potent debuff (Ancient Master), powerful lightning and fire damage (Master of Nature's Fury) and CC immunity (Keeper of Animals). In addition, if you think this skill is too powerful, think of all the sacrifices you'd have to make to be able to use it. You'd get no four-trait line bonuses and this would be your only capstone.

Against Nemeses and Arch-nemeses I can understand the miss chance and run speed immunities, but I think the skill should be allowed to apply the damage vulnerability, allowing Lore-masters to bring their own "Oathies" into the mix.

This skill would have to have very high power and morale costs.

[moebius92]

Hey Moebius, thanks for the post.

This is what I do on my burg.
1) Run honed wit- this makes CR available when not in MM.
2) I have tools with burg chance, i get off a debuff high end gamble from stealth
3) I throw DITE and CR. I let CR run for about 12s (during the run I get in my crit chain) - I then throw GS to tier it up and reset the timer.
4) Follow up with either another DITE or Disable to maximize the debuff - total around 45s of debuffs.

That together gets me a long debuff that is pretty unmatched today.

I also do something similar when I am looking for more CC. I stealth to run provoke to daze, MG daze a 2nd target, riddle a 3rd. MG I will also tier up during the 15s timer to get a near 75s mez

All to say, you can see akin skills presently in game that don't have 10 minute timers.

I'd also add that LM can already do -110% range damage debuff on one target and -60% on several. I don't like skills not based on the lore. I started with the above quote to see what could be pulled from it.

Hmm. I usually just use disable, CR, disable, and then either wait for a crit to renew/tier up the debuffing gamble, or force it with aim. I'm not sure I'd consider throwing another DitE/disable to be a continuation of the debuff - you just get 30 seconds or so of the debuffing gamble being active. DitE/disable should always be on the target.

CC wise, I'd consider confound to probably be the nicest of the burglar's CC options. With disabling gambles and riddles, you can almost mimic the functionality that an LM gets out of blinding flash.


As for your legendary trait proposal...

First off, the -20% resistance is incredibly powerful. Typical resist rates are around 10%. I'd consider a 15% resist rate to be high and a 20% resist rate to be incredibly high (and probably fairly rare - although I'm not sure if this is the case in PvP). I'd consider that effect to mean that you're never going to see another resist, and would probably consider slotting the trait solely for that effect.

Second, the debuffing portion seems to be much more powerful compared to the other two portions. If I'm reading it right, you're drawing from three different trait lines, since it requires all three trait lines to be slotted to use. The buffing/blue portion is a better version of sign of righteousness along with a run speed buff. The damage/red portion is... actually reminds me of ISG a little. But it doesn't seem to be significantly stronger than a good AoE attack (ISG, EgtW, LS). The debuffing/yellow portion is significantly stronger than what we can typically do with debuffs - negate all incoming damage, and increase all outgoing damage by 50%. And a slow, to boot. It's a combination of four/five or so different skills, with their magnitude boosted by a factor of two or more.

[JTollers]

Thanks StM and Moeb for the contributions.

I like StM's idea of changing the channeling setback of no benefit and full penalty to a % of the effects. The biggest draw back to the skill I wrote initially is that you have to be within 10M of targets and not get interrupted from it to apply it - that's very hard to do on a channel because once you start a channel it cannot be restarted (the reason I didn't choose and induction). The second draw back is the power/morale cost, but I can also see a no skill use penalty for x seconds or +xx% incoming damage penalty after durations or 0 icpr for x min. I imagine the morale/power would have an initial penalty amount use and the channel would use more over time. StM's also makes more sense as I was initially thinking a mob would have to be in radius for the full 5s to get the effects. This contribution would mean instead that passing through the rising ask/smoke/etc. (or whatever the visual effect would be) would mean a tier of the effect - the longer in it, the longer the debuff/buff tiers on you.

The concept is really around looking at our current skills from our trait lines and requiring some from each to bring this together. I don't care so much what the numbers are. They are an initial pass at something in line with the above quote using all the trait resources to get it done, but if it's legendary, then it's gotta be good especially with the trait line requirement, the pow/mor penalty, the skill requirements, and it being channeled with a 10M cd.

I don't think anyone would trait this for the moors because I don't see that it could get to be used without interruption or range issues. It's fellowship buff radius applies as well.

I think grindelwald suggested the damage being increased, and it is lower than Ents and Lightning Storm right now, but a damage up would need to me a debuff down a little with that 50% increase in incoming damage.

Anyway thank you to those who contributed, I just had this idea in my head as I have played 2 classes at end game for 3 years that have 3 very nice trait lines and wanted to really see what could be done with a combination of trait spec. Thought having our next Leg trait being affiliated with mix trait set-up would be interesting.

[opurt]

For a level 70 legendary skill I wanna use a Halbred, a Bow, a Runestone, and a Shield. All at the same time, while doing wicked DPS, healing the group, buffing the group, debuffing the boss, tanking the boss, all while stealthed (so I don't take any damage) and on my horse. Oh, and I want all my combat pets out at the same time, even if they require a capstone trait.

Is that too OP?

Let me know. Thanks!