Proposed Weaver Revisions

[Kelsen]

Hey all,

Here's the proposed Weaver revision for Book 4.

Keep in mind, these are just ideas- nothing is set in stone.

http://my.lotro.com/user-1317796/201...eaver-updates/

[Eightleggedphreak]

Uh, ./drool. This. Looks. Amazing. And also quite OP.

[Patrickwg]

Its a good start

really like this one (see below) since we have so few attack skills to choose from it is good this skill will get its potential usability in battles raised.

Lethal Kiss


Current: Moderate damage ranged attack that cannot be used while moving.
Reason for Change:This skill does not suit their nature as harassers. The moment they are immobile they are in trouble.
-Usable while moving.


Thank you never like having to wait so long for the induction. Might want to lower the duration by a few minutes to compensate for the changes.


Lie In Wait
Current: Allows the Weaver to hit and set up ambushes. 10s Induction.
Reason for Change: Induction lasts about 7 seconds longer than the animation. Ambush effect is only useful for group fights.
-Reduce induction to 2.5s
-Add a -10% Induction buff to the Ambush effect


More pets is a nice addition to. This one is my favorite Scytode Brood.

[Moosildur]

Please don't forget to fix the hatchling's speed problems, and other bugs.

I wonder if this will make Lie In Wait a problem because weavers will be able to use it when they spot the zerg and realize they are about to be rolled. Not that I would mind avoiding being rolled, but no other class has a 100% untouchable skill.

I am *really* glad you are working on these ideas. I think this is wonderful!

[thisisanewname]

WOW where's the nerf? are u just posting the good and waiting to get every1 exited before announcing the nerfs or are freeps being buffed so much in those 10 levels that we will actually need all that help to compete?

[witchking782]

Problem with lie in wait:

The reason the induction was 10 sec was to prevent spiders from getting uninterpretable safety for a long amount of time.

With 2.5 sec I'm sure any spider that doesn't want to die will just use that and be safe for a long amount of time and there is nothing any other player can do to get them out of this. There needs to be a way that to remove them out of the burrow. Right now the minis faint death is annoying and its at 10 min cooldown but spider burrows both incombat and out of combat has short cooldown and very long durations.

[Ozthorn]

2.5 seconds is easy to interrupt, plus if they haven't made other changes to burrow any attack that had its induction started before the spider burrowed will land and pull the spider out of burrow. I've been blown out of my instant burrow plenty of times.

One thing I don't see addressed is so many freep skills seriously decrease the usefulness of our stuns. If nothing else conjunction starters/knockdowns should still take effect through stun immunity from SoP:R and Blood Rage. Then it would give that skill some usefulness (though they'd have to remove the knockdown from warg pounce).

Also, I'd like to see a safe fall skill like burgs. I know we can't run up and down walls, so that would be as close as we could get.

[witchking782]

Attacking pet does not get you out of your burrow. They already fixed that. Right now the only thing that may prevent you from burrowing is CC that interrupts animation of the burrow.

And if you're thinking that 2.5 sec induction is fine for a LONG duration burrow (isn't lie in wait 10-30 mins?) then you're seriously joking around and you know that as well as I do.

[Bortsy]

Hmm Not bad.

[magicman0149]

I would like if spiders got another power drain, losing the power drain from the hatchlings was terrible, and it would be a lot better to have another.

[Sezneg]

Attacking pet does not get you out of your burrow. They already fixed that. Right now the only thing that may prevent you from burrowing is CC that interrupts animation of the burrow.

And if you're thinking that 2.5 sec induction is fine for a LONG duration burrow (isn't lie in wait 10-30 mins?) then you're seriously joking around and you know that as well as I do.

Anything that puts me into combat during the induction/animation of lie in wait will interrupt the indcution/cancel the burrow.

This includes attacking the pet during the induction, throwing a noble mark on me, etc.

2.5 seconds may or may not be too short of an induction for group fights where we could potentially drop combat and use this to try to wait out what should be a sure death. I can see your point on that. That said, 10s has always been annoying.

How about we compromise at 5s? It's long enough that you should be able to do something to keep me in combat if i'm being lame and trying to get a free 15m godmode, but short enough to be less of a drag when all i want is to set up my ambush.

[Sezneg]

I have to say, that these are amazing changes overall. I like the added choices on the trait department.

Really well thought out stuff, Kelsan.

[waveslayer44]

Heres a a good idea why cant i use my shire reputation shovel to dig the spider out of the burrow? Seriously that shovel is worthless just give it an induction and show a digging animation and when it reaches end of induction up comes the spider.

Shire shovel

22-45 common damage
2.5 induction time (when digging)

[Patrickwg]

Heres a a good idea why can i use my shire reputation shovel to dig the spider out of the burrow? Seriously that shovel is worthless just give it an induction and show a digging animation and when it reaches end of induction up comes the spider.

Shire shovel

22-45 common damage
2.5 induction time (when digging)

lol + rep

/more words

[klompy]

You had gone a bit quiet Kelsen so we were beginning to wonder, but wow, you have been busy haven't you!

I understand the purpose of reducing the lie in wait induction time but I fear that you may have gone too far. If there are a number of spiders in a group, things are going bad for us, a "one for the gipper" kill is called for and all the spiders are found to be cowering in their long burrow then spiders as a whole will get a bad name. I don't like this change. Lie in wait is there to enable the spider to set up an ambush and as such should have a long induction. I often set up an ambush in a dangerous place. The long induction adds to that danger so as far as I'm concerned is appropriate.

I know some high ranked spiders slot the trait for feast, but most don't. I have never used the skill because I can't afford to give up another trait for a skill that will rarely be used. I like your proposed change but unless we get an extra trait slot I doubt your efforts will be appreciated by many.

Lethal Kiss on the move is brilliant. Well done! Currently we only have one on the run DPS skill. Adding Lethal Kiss to the mix is a great move as it isn't a DOT and has a cooldown so shouldn't be too OP.

I'm not sure about Venomous Haze. It's use has changed now with the new hatchling. It's used to apply the DPS buff which removes the ranged debuff effect and it has a cooldown so I find I'm not using it as a ranged debuff in solo fights much any more. Even in group fights i'm using it on focus targets to help bring them down. I guess it will be useful in group fights to force healers and hunters to move closer to the fight.

I like the Necrosis effect change, but lowering the duration will mean a nerf for this skill. I only get to use it once in a 1v1 because it has a long induction and I have to stand still to use it. Lowering the duration would make perfect sense if the induction were removed.

The Trait changes are awesome. Choice is good. Love it!

Can I suggest one more change? Born of Shadow is a toggle skill that is reset on death, but it has a one minute cooldown. The cooldown serves no purpose. A spider can run a long way from the rez after retreating before it is able to toggle Born of Shadow back on again. With the DP run buff I can run from TR rez to Bear Valley before I'm able to re apply the skill. Please remove the cooldown, or at least change it to 5 seconds.

Thanks for sharing your ideas with us and involving the community in the proposed changes. Great stuff Kelsan!

[witchking782]

Look if spiders want a truly ambush skill,

give them creepside version of hunter camo, that way they can be instant in stealth if they're out of combat and freeps can engage them if they find them in stealth

The problem right now is that if spiders are caught in burrow there is nothing anyone can do to get them out of it.

wtb spade, pst.

[Tarnsman]

Sounds okay. Still want my old hatchlings back and the ranged attack that came with them. Give us a third option for hatchlings: the old skill. Make the skill rank 6 like it was of old. Giving us the old skill back would make the ambush buff coming out of LiW have a real purpose/application. Pop out of burrow, attack with the ranged hatchling skill (did 200+ damage before crit) with an increased chance of a crit (bonus hatchling?) and then apply the CC and debuffs. Would make me a happy spider. Don't care if the swarm of three spiderlings are not controllable and last only thirty seconds. Fact is the old Hatchling skill was a decent ranged attack that was useable on the move with a 60 sec CD and in prolonged fights we might get the skill off two or three times. I want the old skill back. Pretty please.

Re: The single hatchling. It needs to share the burrow with momma spider when she is LiW. No sitting on top or nearby waiting to be discovered.

Re: Venomous Haze - it is suppose to blind according to the tooltip. I think if someone is blinded they would a) move a lot slower unable to see where they were going and b) they would miss their target a lot more. Keep it a melee skill and make it like the Burg's DIE skill: and AoE debuff skill with a 20% slow and a 20% increased chance of a missed attack. Forget the ranged debuff. Oh, and just like DIE, no POTs remove it.

Wish list:
1) Increased stealth detection in burrow. Ambush spiders in RL spring from their burrows due to their picking up vibrations from the ground of nearby prey. If a weaver is LiW she should be able to detect any and all stealth players within 10m of the burrow and increased chance out to 20m. Would bring some balance back to the Moors with all the buffs the Burgs recently got.
2) Burgs can jump from heights with no fall damage, then spiders should have the same skill. In RL spider use web lines to lower themselves down from heights. In the Moors we should have the same ability.

[waveslayer44]

lol its a valid idea it would make the reputation shovel worthwhile to get. I hope its put in but i seriously doubt it

lol + rep

/more words

[Sezneg]

Look if spiders want a truly ambush skill,

give them creepside version of hunter camo, that way they can be instant in stealth if they're out of combat and freeps can engage them if they find them in stealth

The problem right now is that if spiders are caught in burrow there is nothing anyone can do to get them out of it.

wtb spade, pst.

The interesting thing from this trade would be I gain the ability to induct my first skill from stealth (currently I have to break the channel...).

I'd really dislike being trackable though.

It would be cool if there were a way to allow a caught spider to be dragged out of the burrow without nerfing the trackability. You'd probably need to increase the +stealth level by a large number as well.

[ti-pere]

Nice change!

Thx a lot. I agree with the born of shadow cooldown.

I have one litle thing to ask, do our hatchling will have the same skin as we are using? I would really enjoy this cause they all look the same and i cant find mine some time in all the others green spiders.

Thx

[Sezneg]

Nice change!

Thx a lot. I agree with the born of shadow cooldown.

I have one litle thing to ask, do our hatchling will have the same skin as we are using? I would really enjoy this cause they all look the same and i cant find mine some time in all the others green spiders.

Thx

THIS.

Please let us tell our hatchlings apart. It's really difficult when you get 3 spiders in one area to know where your hatchling is.

[tomasbird]

Lethal Kiss

Current: Moderate damage ranged attack that cannot be used while moving.

Reason for Change:This skill does not suit their nature as harassers. The moment they are immobile they are in trouble.

-Usable while moving.

Great!!! Now pretty please with sugar on top, make it shadow damage, increase the damage and increase the cooldown - would be great if we could crit at least for 1k with one skill (on ~20s CD) )

[Eightleggedphreak]

Honestly, Kelsan puts HUGE buffs on the table and we start whining?

Lethal kiss on the run. Kiting just gained more damage.

Necrosis cooldown. With the extra use it will be gaining, and the synergy with the ranged pet, this will be nice. The lower duration sucks, I think 1 min/1 min would be better, but this will be a buff overall.

VH usable from range. We've asked for this since the skill came out. Huge buff.

The feast buff is quite nice for anyone who slots the skill. Keep in mind it also resets both our roots and our mez. I personally still won't go back to slotting it, but it is a decent trait slot now.

The change to lie in wait is amazing, and too powerful. Maybe a 5 second induction, but 2.5 is nothing. This will get changed sooner or later. The new portion of the ambush buff is a large buff to solo spiders.

The new hatchling trait is amazing, opening up more playstyle options, and giving us another powerful pet. The buff to the old trait is quite nice and keeps it valuable.

Honestly how can anyone complain and not see the big buffs we've been given-not a single nerf!

[jattdamac]

the nerfs are being shipped seperately and shud arrive soon. we encourage you to be patient.

[gakj3]

dislike the venomous haze change. there was a thread very recently on this.

1v1 its ok. but get too far past that and its ridiculous.

the CD is too short to make this a 30m range skill. especially seeing as this is an AOE. its just a r3 skill.

with multiple spiders its simply overpowered. this might not be a problem prevalent on smaller servers, but when you have full spider raids running around, its just ????????. it doesnt even require much coordination to use, being an AOE.

i honestly think the reason no one cries about it is because a lot of spiders are just too stupid to use it. either elongate the CD or lower the range.