Champion Blog #2

[Orion]

http://my.lotro.com/user-55/2011/05/...nd-trait-sets/

[Globalorn]

Wewt! Thanks Orion!

[Jamers]

I continue to like what I read.

Glory = new PvP 1v1 stance?

[Sylux14]

*bawls his eyes out from the beauty of what he has just read*



Orion, please take this delicious piece of bacon as a reward! *gives bacon*

[ANewMachine]

Cool...one-button spammable "warden analogs" with self-healing and defenses boostable by skill rotation as another main tank class for guards to compete with!

Glad to know that my (and others) posting of our concerns is indeed one of the intented results in your blogging, etc.

Can Feybobiam and others now please stop breaking community guidelines on forum and sending me pm's telling me to shut up and what a "donkey" I am (pm contained a different word starting with Jack..., with same technical definition).

Howsabout you just report them, rather than calling them out in an open forum?

Orion - I'm mostly reassured by this. You don't explain how Fervour is going to be less-optimal for holding aggro, though, which was one of your stated goals for the stance. Are there bigger combat changes that might make this more difficult for the Fervour Champion?

[Orion]

Glad to know that my (and others) posting of our concerns is indeed one of the intented results in your blogging, etc.

Yes, well-reasoned, legitimately discussed concerns are very welcome.

Can Feybobiam and others now please stop breaking community guidelines on forum and sending me pm's telling me to shut up and what a "donkey" I am (pm contained a different word starting with Jack..., with same technical definition).

If you are the subject of harassment you should report it through proper channels to the proper folks here at Turbine. That group is your OCR crew headed by Sapience.

Cool...one-button spammable "warden analogs" with self-healing and defenses boostable by skill rotation as another main tank class for guards to compete with!

However, passive-aggressive statements that look myopically upon two or three statements from a small amount of existing information do nothing to support legitimate concerns or well-reasoned debate. In fact, they pretty much discount your concerns as reactionary.

Here is another way that you could have phrased that comment:

"I am concerned that Champion's having the ability to use Bracing Attack and Hedge more often will allow them to replace Wardens and Guardians. Can you explain a little more about the cooldowns and alterations so that my fears that champions will become the only tank that players want in groups are minimized?"

Well-reasoned, personal, but also looking at the situation from a standpoint that you do not yet have all of the information available. I am all for discussion and debate on the changes. Teasers are meant to tease. Perhaps you missed the most important part of the post - EVERYTHING IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE - or the second most important piece - Enhancements are stance dependent, for the most part and the most transformational portions of the trait sets are deep in the trait set.

Bear with Zaestro, information is rolling out as we can roll it out to you.

[umrebel]

Fervour sounds even more amazing (get rid of the healing penalty and I'll REALLY be stoked). Glory sounds interesting and potentially really fun. Ardour sounds ... less painful, but don't think you've given it enough to warrant using it much.

Really like what I read so far. Hopefully there will be some needed adjustments to indidvidual skills forthcoming.

[Perelik]

Just have a simple question, why is it so hard to give us 4 morale per vitality point? in 3 or 4 expansion the bonus glory give to our morale will be too low compare to other tanking class, solve the problem now instead of having to fix this later.

[Zaestro]

You are quite correct as to my snippet here Orion...and I thank you for the direct response. I hope you have seen the other more explicitly explained statements of concern that I also have made, and can appreciate the historical perspective of the potential threat to guards in buffing up glory stance in a direction OTHER than simply aggro control (read: remove the dps reduction that was there for a reason, albeit the stance may not have otherwise been implemented properly or supported by traits/skills, etc.)

As some have said...as long as guards become main dps alongside champs, I am okay with champs becoming main tanks beside guards and wards.

Still waiting for an indication that both classes will be treated fairly in this way, even if I disagree with the whole blending of primary roles...it will need to be done equally, inclusive of wardens, who it sounds from your further blurb there may indeed be getting some dps love.

I posted somewhere as my first reaction: cool, now remove evade and power nerf from OP and apply more AoE attacks and increase crit multipier to OP guards...its not the best direction imo, but at least it evenly makes the secondary roles of each class roughly equivalent to the original primary roles respectively.

[Wilkens]

The Berserker - 4-Set Bonus
In Fervour:
Increases fervour pip generation
Increases Merciful Strike critical magnitude significantly
Reduces cooldown on Merciful Strike to Zero seconds

While I don't know (obviously since you didn't tell us ) what the altered mechanic for Merciful Strike is going to be the above 4-set could (COULD) turn it from a okay-ish skill in to a powerhouse of awesome sauce. I like the direction of the Ardour/Glory changes while seconding the please just go with 4 morale per vitality idea for morale bonus in Glory.

[MikeA]

While I don't know (obviously since you didn't tell us ) what the altered mechanic for Merciful Strike is going to be the above 4-set could (COULD) turn it from a okay-ish skill in to a powerhouse of awesome sauce. I like the direction of the Ardour/Glory changes while seconding the please just go with 4 morale per vitality idea for morale bonus in Glory.

You do realize that 4 morale per point of vitality would give us less morale than the current bonus (max 650 extra at 650 Vitality vs the +750 it now gives)?

[Perelik]

You do realize that 4 morale per point of vitality would give us less morale than the current bonus (max 650 extra at 650 Vitality vs the +750 it now gives)?

Yes but permanently, and it will scale better on the long run, a plain +750 moral wont cut it after many expansion.

It look like peoples dont get the idea

Remove the +750 moral bonus while slotted 4 into martial.
Give the champion 4 morale per vitality points for any stance.

Guardian and Warden gets 5 per vitality and other classes 3, i cant see why champs couldnt get 4 morale per vit point since we're supposed to be offtanks.

[Orion]

You are quite correct as to my snippet here Orion...and I thank you for the direct response. I hope you have seen the other more explicitly explained statements of concern that I also have made, and can appreciate the historical perspective of the potential threat to guards in buffing up glory stance in a direction OTHER than simply aggro control (read: remove the dps reduction that was there for a reason, albeit the stance may not have otherwise been implemented properly or supported by traits/skills, etc.)

As some have said...as long as guards become main dps alongside champs, I am okay with champs becoming main tanks beside guards and wards.

Still waiting for an indication that both classes will be treated fairly in this way, even if I disagree with the whole blending of primary roles...it will need to be done equally, inclusive of wardens, who it sounds from your further blurb there may indeed be getting some dps love.

I posted somewhere as my first reaction: cool, now remove evade and power nerf from OP and apply more AoE attacks and increase crit multipier to OP guards...its not the best direction imo, but at least it evenly makes the secondary roles of each class roughly equivalent to the original primary roles respectively.

I have read them all. I come home at night and read the responses. It's my job to remain informed.

To your other points:

Glory no longer has any damage reduction. It also lost the 60% Threat Increase that it had. Glory stance, on its own, only provides a small amount of Critical Defense - for a tank that has lower HP by default that spells doom. Now, what other information do you have. Hedge is altered: you do not know how. Cooldowns on BA and Hedge are reduced, again, you do not know how much. Testing will prove out the DPS/Survivability of the rotations.

Let us look at the Fervour information:

One minor change that has no other information about it: Merciful Strike is altered. Now, the bit about decreasing incoming health depends on other potential changes. If those happen, it might be okay to get rid of...MIGHT.

Others are already asking about Fervour Threat. The most important thing to note is this Fervour Champs will still get aggro...they will not have the survivability of Glory as the crit defense comes from the Glory stance. They will also have a harder time shedding aggro once they get it.

Graalx and I have been chatting a lot about the changes and we are making certain that these changes will all work and play together nicely. Tanking in Fervour, may become a thing of the past...I say may...because gear might be the great equalizer.

On your last point, careful what you wish for.

[Zaestro]

Yeah...he's looking longtern (the 4 morale per vit), and to level 75 when the stat cap will presumably be raised to 750. That will net an extra 400 morale at that point.

[MikeA]

Yes but permanently, and it will scale better on the long run, a plain +750 moral wont cut it after many expansion.

No the bonus scales with level, it should always be higher than the stat cap.

[klover307]

I like the new info but only thing i didnt see addressed

Ardours BPE

staying the same? cause if so i might as well just suck it up and use fervour as my aoes for the extra damage because ive never had power issues when aoeing and i can always be smart when it comes to aoeing as well to not pull aggro.

unless the BPE is changed then i really dont plan on using the stance still. Have under 1k BPE is useless.

[Perelik]

No the bonus scales with level, it should always be higher than the stat cap.

It should but doesnt, they'd have to change it themself, my solution would be a lot better than this plain +750 morale
We have the same problem with many traits/skills, they should all scale isntead of giving static bonus, man heal anyone?

[ANewMachine]

Others are already asking about Fervour Threat. The most important thing to note is this Fervour Champs will still get aggro...they will not have the survivability of Glory as the crit defense comes from the Glory stance. They will also have a harder time shedding aggro once they get it.

The thing, is, Champs already main-tank every non-raid encounter in the game in Fervour. To me, there needs to be some change to either the amount of damage that mobs put out, or healing, or the Champ's survivability in Fervour (which is a function of their 6Kish morale alone being enough to absorb most major hits in 6-mans long enough to let healing catch up). Has there been any such change to the combat system?

Second, presuming there's a reason that Fervour Champs care about having aggro, why will a Fervour champ have a harder time dumping aggro? There's no stated change to Ebbing Ire in your blog post, so wouldn't they just Ebb off onto someone else and go right back to shing-shing?

[MikeA]

It should but doesnt, they'd have to change it themself, my solution would be a lot better than this plain +750 morale
We have the same problem with many traits/skills, they should all scale isntead of giving static bonus, man heal anyone?

It does scale, I remember it was lower before I hit 65.

[Zaestro]

I have read them all. I come home at night and read the responses. It's my job to remain informed.

To your other points:

Glory no longer has any damage reduction. It also lost the 60% Threat Increase that it had. Glory stance, on its own, only provides a small amount of Critical Defense - for a tank that has lower HP by default that spells doom. Now, what other information do you have. Hedge is altered: you do not know how. Cooldowns on BA and Hedge are reduced, again, you do not know how much. Testing will prove out the DPS/Survivability of the rotations.

Let us look at the Fervour information:

One minor change that has no other information about it: Merciful Strike is altered. Now, the bit about decreasing incoming health depends on other potential changes. If those happen, it might be okay to get rid of...MIGHT.

Others are already asking about Fervour Threat. The most important thing to note is this Fervour Champs will still get aggro...they will not have the survivability of Glory as the crit defense comes from the Glory stance. They will also have a harder time shedding aggro once they get it.

Graalx and I have been chatting a lot about the changes and we are making certain that these changes will all work and play together nicely. Tanking in Fervour, may become a thing of the past...I say may...because gear might be the great equalizer.

On your last point, careful what you wish for.

OMG...so...champs that tank in fervour now will still be able to do later. Meanwhile, glory champs have no increased threat modifier...BUT will be expected to gain aggro by...DPS.

Okay, trying really hard not to react with sarcasm...but the stated goal was to encourage glory tanking...so you reduce the aggro and increase the dps?

Can you see why this is potentially devastating to guards and wards? It IS Moria all over again...undoing some of the good directions that were made since then, and taking glory in the exact opposite direction to be preferred over fervour tanking.

Fervour tanking will be preferred even above glory champs, which will still be preferred over guards or wardens.

You are making a secondary role the absolutely preferred tanking class in the game. Don't do it man...you really are gonna break some things here.

Make glory be a tremendous aggro generator, that will encourage and make viable glory tanks, but won't be as likely to crush tank traited guards...and then not as much need to make OP guards (secondary role) rise up to a champ's primary dps level.

[Orion]

I like the new info but only thing i didnt see addressed

Ardours BPE

staying the same? cause if so i might as well just suck it up and use fervour as my aoes for the extra damage because ive never had power issues when aoeing and i can always be smart when it comes to aoeing as well to not pull aggro.

unless the BPE is changed then i really dont plan on using the stance still. Have under 1k BPE is useless.

Guess I should have made the descriptions before and afters. Ardour, at this point, will no longe have a BPE penalty.

[MotoMorrashi]

Personally I still think there is great angst and an disposition to steer us away from Fervor, yet at the same time the champion as a whole is an aberration to the devs to fix yet not break. My proposition is simply do what should have been done long ago, give champs no heavy armor and superior aggro reduction skills, reinstate BPE and take away the necessity for them to be considered an off-tank or a tank because of a stance. Simply make us the melee dps class. Need I say this being done=fixed?

[Orion]

OMG...so...champs that tank in fervour now will still be able to do later. Meanwhile, glory champs have no increased threat modifier...BUT will be expected to gain aggro by...DPS.

Okay, trying really hard not to react with sarcasm...but the stated goal was to encourage glory tanking...so you reduce the aggro and increase the dps?

Can you see why this is potentially devastating to guards and wards? It IS Moria all over again...undoing some of the good directions that were made since then, and taking glory in the exact opposite direction to be preferred over fervour tanking.

Fervour tanking will be preferred even above glory champs, which will still be preferred over guards or wardens.

You are making a secondary role the absolutely preferred tanking class in the game. Don't do it man...you really are gonna break some things here.

Make glory be a tremendous aggro generator, that will encourage and make viable glory tanks, but won't be as likely to crush tank traited guards...and then not as much need to make OP guards (secondary role) rise up to a champ's primary dps level.

Zaestro,

It is clear from the few exchanges, the countless inciting posts and this post, that I am no going to convince you that we learned from the past and will not make the same mistakes. I hope that you can find a more constructive way to put forth your concerns in the future.

[Hakon_Stormbrow]

Very interesting. I like so many of the changes.

I really like the 4 set bonuses. Means you have to commit to AOE or ST. Looks like a hard choice..

Really stoked about you mentioning removing the healing penalty. For you to mention it I realize it must be pretty serious.

Glad we are getting a well thought out total revamp.. Looks really good.

[Zaestro]

Personally I still think there is great angst and an disposition to steer us away from Fervor, yet at the same time the champion as a whole is an aberration to the devs to fix yet not break. My proposition is simply do what should have been done long ago, give champs no heavy armor and superior aggro reduction skills, reinstate BPE and take away the necessity for them to be considered an off-tank or a tank because of a stance. Simply make us the melee dps class. Need I say this being done=fixed?

I actually agree with you...would be perfectly fine with champs getting even more buffed as a dps bomb, and think guards (and wardens also, since both are main tanks by design), should be left to be prime tanks and tweaked / corrected as they may need to be, independently of this new "make champs be main tanks too" emphasis.

Don't sugar coat it...cuz that IS what this is about...yet another main tank (that will also be a main dps class) in a game that already has two full classes in that tank capacity and frequently requires only one tank, and never more than two...and only until the content is fresh, later needing neither.