Five New Instances in Update 5

[Fipiara]

Expansions have never been free to any group of players, VIP, Subscribers, or Lifetimes. They have always required some sort of purchase (Mirkwood required the Adventurer's pack purchase for VIPs to get it free). This has not changed.

Thank you very much for the update (especially before PAX instead of after).

For Mirkwood - I thought the adventure pack -> free Mirkwood was for Lifetime subscriptions and Mirkwood was free as long as you had the multi-month subscription.

[Lomeloth]

Expansions have never been free to any group of players, VIP, Subscribers, or Lifetimes. They have always required some sort of purchase (Mirkwood required the Adventurer's pack purchase for VIPs to get it free). This has not changed.

I understand this. However, there is now (theoretically) a different purchase option in play for expansions - buying via TP in the Store. It's murky how that intersects with the current practice of updates being free for VIPs. It's downright impossible to evaluate, as there is no information available with which to make a meaningful comparison. Hence my frustration.

[Eldrandir]

Expansions have never been free to any group of players, VIP, Subscribers, or Lifetimes. They have always required some sort of purchase (Mirkwood required the Adventurer's pack purchase for VIPs to get it free). This has not changed.

Not asking the cost, but will RoI also be in the LOTRO store for purchase with Turbine points like Moria expansion is and Mirkwood was? If so, will someone who purchases it through the store with tp receive Update 5 instances for free as well?

[AlphaMan]

Thank you very much for the update (especially before PAX instead of after).

For Mirkwood - I thought the adventure pack -> free Mirkwood was for Lifetime subscriptions and Mirkwood was free as long as you had the multi-month subscription.

Nope. Mirkwood is paid, even for Subs.
Of course, now it's just a quest-pack.

[Elderban]

That's not what I said at all. What I said was if you have already pre-ordered it (or are planning on doing so) then you will get it for free. If you buy it from the Turbine web store once it has launched you will also get the instances for free.

Might want to point out or change where it says Turbine webs store because people will confuse it with the in-game LOTRO store.

But, to everyone else, basically what they're saying is that if you pay cash for the game before OR after launch, you will get the instances for free. If you buy the expansion with TP after it's launched, you will (I am guessing, here) have to buy the instances seperately with TP.

One question, though, will the instances be free for VIP's either way, even if they buy the expansion with TP?

[AlphaMan]

I understand this. However, there is now (theoretically) a different purchase option in play for expansions - buying via TP in the Store. It's murky how that intersects with the current practice of updates being free for VIPs. It's downright impossible to evaluate, as there is no information available with which to make a meaningful comparison. Hence my frustration.

Easy: Moria is available in the TP store. It's not free for VIP. Yes, past update, but everything still applies.

[zathscorp]

Not asking the cost, but will RoI also be in the LOTRO store for purchase like Moria and Mirkwood currently are, and if it is and someone purchases it through the store will they receive Update 5 instances for free as well?

With this separate store discussion. That my friend is the million dollar question.

It can be interpreted that if you buy the expansion for cash from the web store you get update 5 free, but if you buy it from the in game store for TP that you will not get update 5 free. They have been very clever in their wording and with this brand new second store, Sapience's initial statement is still unclear. Sapience said:

"or who purchases after launch via the Turbine Web Store"

And Sapience later separated this store from the in game store.

[KingCogidubnus]

Brilliant news Turbine. A happy player here!

[PypeRings]

Expansions have never been free to any group of players, VIP, Subscribers, or Lifetimes. They have always required some sort of purchase (Mirkwood required the Adventurer's pack purchase for VIPs to get it free). This has not changed.

That is of coarse true. I should know, I have purchased them all.

The controversy seems to revolve around whether ROI is worthy of the designation 'Expansion. I understand the Turbine believes it is.

[Stephen1981]

Easy: Moria is available in the TP store. It's not free for VIP. Yes, past update, but everything still applies.

well technically if your VIP getting 500 TP monthly and maybe even grinding deeds you could get these for free if you think it about i know its not free in a sense but i think you understand what i mean

[RicardoFurriel]

Communication - thats what majority of us wanted.

I couldn't agree more. +rep

[Ayrolen]

Nope. Mirkwood is paid, even for Subs.
Of course, now it's just a quest-pack.

I paid for the Adventurer's Pack and got the Mirkwood xpac for free.

[Crell_1]

I paid for the Adventurer's Pack and got the Mirkwood xpac for free.

It was included as part of a $ purchase none the less, doesnt matter if it was part of a value added bundle for your account type .

[Stephen1981]

I paid for the Adventurer's Pack and got the Mirkwood xpac for free.

Ayrolen i thought it was the other way around buy mirkwood and we got adventurer pack for free maybe i can't remember to well i remember buying that when they took pre-orders though

[Fipiara]

Nope. Mirkwood is paid, even for Subs.
Of course, now it's just a quest-pack.

No, I meant when it was released. As long as you had a multi-month subscription at launch date you got Mirkwood for free - link

[PypeRings]

No, I meant when it was released. As long as you had a multi-month subscription at launch date you got Mirkwood for free - link

I stand corrected in my reply to Sapience. And I guess, he does as well.

Edited: Lifers had to pay.. for the Adventure Pack ($20). so.. you paid one way or the other.

[AlphaMan]

No, I meant when it was released. As long as you had a multi-month subscription at launch date you got Mirkwood for free - link

Do you realize it says that monthly subscribers still had to pay to upgrade to SOM in the link you posted? Yes, Multi-month's got it free, but f2p changed payment/how subscription worked.

What's the point anyway, expecting ROI for free as VIP? Or expecting the next update for free, without buying ROI? Because that's not how previous instance updates worked- HoN/IoF were paid, EoD was part of an Enedwaith purchase (if you had it already, "part" of the past purchase). How the new one fits with VIP is yet to be seen, but I would assume it would follow the pattern laid out. As it stands, if you buy ROI you get everything.

[Cuiv]

Thanks Sapience for the good news. Altought we will get the new instances cluster a little later than expected, it will be still on time. Great news for the players to confirme Turbine is still working hard on Lotro .

[Lilka]

THANKYOU for this announcement - I hope it means you feel you can trust us not to riot in future when you give us news like this - the sort of news that isn't 100% what the players or the devs expected, but is still full of win.

We promise to be good.

I am going to enjoy my stroll to 75!

[Ruintheliel]

I couldn't really make out any clear answer for this from the info provided but...
If you are VIP and purchase the expansion with TP, is this cluster included? (Just like with Moria)
Or are they rather not connected to a quest pack and not free for VIPs?

Thanks for the news, anyway, tho

[MorliX]

Wow, I'm impressed. The community outrage definitely prompted Turbine to make an official statement, so bravo to the community and to Turbine for listening.

Agreed...thank you to all participants that were able to keep to at least a fairly even keel, while asserting genuine consumer rights by communicating with our vendor.

Thank you Turbine for hearing us and for making the right decision.

I hope that some lessons are taken from this at-times overly-emotional episode, all around:

1) that Turbine does indeed have the capacity to listen and respond;

2) that some of the emotional turmoil and negative PR resulting could have been avoided by a quicker response and a better level of communication up front;

3) that important, negative viewpoints can be validly related by the community without personal attacks on players, devs or the company;

4) that dismissive, demeaning remarks and "blame" (as will likely ALWAYS be a part of forum bickering to some extent, I do realize), as between different camps of players, and/or even as on the very rare occasion sneak out in minor ways in comments by the devs as well -- we are all human after all -- do absolutely NOTHING to improve earnest communication when needed, and in so doing minimizes the chances for mutually positive resolution.

[Stephen1981]

i'm still try to figure out how they decided to cut instances from isengard instead of adding it you all are accepting this but still a chance it could get delayed tell jan. of next year

[Lomeloth]

Easy: Moria is available in the TP store. It's not free for VIP. Yes, past update, but everything still applies.

Just a note: I cannot see Moria in the Store, as I am a VIP who purchased it. So I cannot determine what might be in it. But that's not my point.

My point is not that I won't have to buy the expansion in some form. I have been crystal clear that I understand this, numerous times. What is unclear is how the promised avenue of purchasing with TP will work, and how it will intersect with the up-to-now practice of Updates (as opposed to expansions) being free for VIPs. I will break my frustration down for you into smaller bites, so you can see it better.

1. I have been told I will be able to purchase expansions in the Turbine Store (not the Web Store) for TP.
2. I have not been told when the expansion will be available for purchase in this manner.
3. I have not been told in what configuration the expansion will be available for purchase in that manner.
4. I have not been told the price of the expansion and/or its consituent parts in TP.
5. I do not know if, as a VIP, I will have to purchase the Update (or its parts)separately for additional cost(s) in TP (or when I might be able to do so if I must buy it separately).

In short, I am not able to make an informed comparison between the theoretically available purchase methods, because absolutely no information is available about any salient data point inherent in one of them.

[Yosoff]

1 Twelve player instance

Will this be a multi-boss raid or just another lair raid?

[brasswire]

well technically if your VIP getting 500 TP monthly and maybe even grinding deeds you could get these for free if you think it about i know its not free in a sense but i think you understand what i mean

Yep. At first I was little peeved that it sounds like if you use Turbine points to purchase Isengard, you will still have to also purchase the instances separately. But upon further review, I realized that as a VIP I get lots of points for free that just sit there waiting to be spent on stuff like this anyway. So, I guess I can't really complain too loudly. Of course some official confirmation of how this purchase method will work would certainly be nice.