How is finesse diffrent from Radiance?

[vtravi]

It seems that you will need a certain number to raid with. This sounds like radiance to me. I don't really care but I think it is funny that Turbine was happy to kill radiance but added finesse. Oh well

[CWood]

Well, it's spelled differently...

[stubing]

Wow, where have i been. Can someone tell me what finesse is?

[trancejeremy]

Finesse is explained here

http://www.lotro.com/gameinfo/devdia...w-stat-updates

It's not like Radiance, which basically didn't do much besides gate you

Finesse seems to be a product of the B/P/E system being broken at high levels. It's a way to ignore it in enemies (and vice-versa). But I guess in raids, it will be even higher, so you can't hit anything without having a lot of it. So yeah, a way of gating just like radiance. But at least you won't cower, you just won't be able to land a blow without it.

[Kryptik13]

*shakes head and sighs*

And so history repeats itself.

[stubing]

How Doesn't Turbine see this as radiance with a different name that doesn't affect healers? Turbine...You disappoint me.

[Jeronan]

The Finesse system is much better than Radiance ever was.

With the Radiance system people were just plain locked out of instances if they didn't meet the required amount of Radiance (which was basically a full set of sertain armor you had to grind together first).

With the Finesse system you are not locked out and you can already attempt the encounter with low Finesse.
Just that the encounter will be harder the lower Finesse you have. But you can still attempt it.

It's a big difference!

They have to somewhat gate sertain content to promote character progression. If everyone can just go straight to the new RAID with minimal gear and start farming the best gear right away. Then people will be bored again in notime with nothing to do.

Every serious MMO that has RAIDING has Instance progression via gear, chopped up in different Tiers.
Radiance was exactly like that! Finesse is not.

[DuroNL]

Well, atleast Radiance gave you hope eq. a bit more morale and dps %
especially outside the Radiance instances it was great...

Finesse seems to be giving more into the B/P/E line so we get a % in that?
not sure what to think of it, but you can't blame Turbine for not trying to re-invent the wheel of Radiance and Finesse :P

[Tainted_Black]

It seems that you will need a certain number to raid with. This sounds like radiance to me. I don't really care but I think it is funny that Turbine was happy to kill radiance but added finesse. Oh well

1. Finesse is not a gating mechanic. It is NOT required to do any content. If however, you do have some, it will make things slightly easier for you. There is, however, nothing to stop you doing the content without it. there is no cower mechanic which makes it impossible to do anything.

2. Finesse is NOT required by non dps or tanking characters. It lowers your opponents BPE rating. If you are in the back, healing ... why would you need to lower your opponents BPE ratings?

People really need to read up on Finesse before throwing the dummy out of the pram.

Oh and as of note, This is coming to you from someone who has tested Finesse and it's effects.

[Vikingen]

Finesse comes on almost everything.

If your on laurelin i will fill the ah with finesse crafted gear come and buy..

And it's not required for all classes, you can raid without it.

You will find crafted gear in this thread
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...t-2nd-age-LI-s

(armours and such a couple of pages in)

[DuroNL]

Finesse comes on almost everything.

If your on laurelin i will fill the ah with finesse crafted gear come and buy..

And it's not required for all classes, you can raid without it.

Cheap yes? you know how the Economics of Laurelin works... all cheap!!!

just rmember that ^^

[Leonide]

Finesse is just another combat stats added IMO for two reasons:

1) Add another stat to care at end-game after the stats consolidation
2) Fix the broken BPE system

It will be useful for DPS/tanks. Thats pretty much it.

But between Melee/Range/Tactical Offense and finesse, whats the difference? Finesse is available in many pieces of gear and does NOT gate ppl. At least, it ''gates'' like any other stat does.

[Lilka]

You don't NEED it to raid. It's recommended. Like potions and scrolls and gear you didn't find on the floor is recommended.

You can find it everywhere. Even on the floor. Crafted stuff, quest stuff. No difficulty in obtaining it.

[MoonwalkIntoMordor]

Finesse is available in many pieces of gear and does NOT gate ppl. At least, it ''gates'' like any other stat does.

Absolutely true, but a lot of people will not (want to) understand this.

When they see a new stat being introduced, they immediately think it is another form of gating because the radiance experience scarred them for life. At first I understood the concerns. Finesse could have been available on only certain rare drops. It could have been available on all gear but crafted items and quest rewards could have given very little of it compared to raid drops. Having low finesse could have crippled you as much as having 8 dread. All of these were very unpleasant possibilities.

After the NDA lift, the info showed that those were wrong. Finesse is indeed just another stat. The way it is obtained and utilized is so different to radiance. It is more similar to our derived stats; like offence and critical ratings. But there are still those who have concerns regarding finesse. Based on what? I don't know. No rational explanation. All I see is "Radiance 2.0, Radiance 2.0"! This isn't scepticism. It is irrational pessimism.

The only explanation that I can come up with is that some people think raid bosses will start with extremely high B/P/E (like 80% each) and only those with high finesse will be able to hit at all. Not correct, but somewhat understandable. It will better after RoI launches and you experience it for yourself.

[BelegShy]

I have to say im really impressed by all the people that complains every time something "new" happens. Finesse is so far from radiance as it could be. What is wrong with that you actually "need" something to complete or even try to complete and instance or encounter!?? It seems like some people just want to log in and get all for "free". Fully equipped character with all the best on it so they don`t need to grind or farm or do anything. Well i for myself kinda liked the radiance. And i like this. It makes me feel better when i equip my char with the "best" possible gear to get victory in an encounter.

Well.... My opinions...

[CWood]

The Finesse system is much better than Radiance ever was.

With the Radiance system people were just plain locked out of instances if they didn't meet the required amount of Radiance (which was basically a full set of sertain armor you had to grind together first).

With the Finesse system you are not locked out and you can already attempt the encounter with low Finesse.
Just that the encounter will be harder the lower Finesse you have. But you can still attempt it.

It's a big difference!

It is. With Finesse, Turbine has plausible deniability:

"Oh, we didn't make it so you can't participate. Your friends made that decision. It's not our fault."

===

Thankfully, it does indeed look like Finesse will be readily available, so even though it is a gear gate, it's at least a nonrestrictive and easy-to-pass one.

[grinko.at]

Also, don't forget that Finesse only reduces Block/Parry/Evade and resistances.

Resistance penetration is readily available (Legacies, Minstrel Piercing Finale) and Block/Parry can be bypassed completely just by standing behind the mob you are attacking.

[Mark_J]

<snip>

They have to somewhat gate sertain content to promote character progression. If everyone can just go straight to the new RAID with minimal gear and start farming the best gear right away. Then people will be bored again in notime with nothing to do.

Every serious MMO that has RAIDING has Instance progression via gear, chopped up in different Tiers.
Radiance was exactly like that! Finesse is not.

They didn't have to gate the Rift, Helegrod or any of the SoA Instances and they have been the most popular Instances the game ever had...


Finesse IS a gate, just not as unforgiving as Radiance...

[cossieuk]

They didn't have to gate the Rift, Helegrod or any of the SoA Instances and they have been the most popular Instances the game ever had...


Finesse IS a gate, just not as unforgiving as Radiance...

Could you run the Rift with Fem armour, and a level 40 weapon, and your virtues at 4-5, maybe but with a lot of difficultly. If will be the same with Finesse. You can try without and maybe succeed but it will be easier with Finesse and since it appears to be on many pieces of armour, and according to the dev diary you can cap the rating with 3-4 pieces, it will be like getting your virtues to a high level before raiding

[Mark_J]

Could you run the Rift with Fem armour, and a level 40 weapon, and your virtues at 4-5, maybe but with a lot of difficultly. If will be the same with Finesse. You can try without and maybe succeed but it will be easier with Finesse and since it appears to be on many pieces of armour, and according to the dev diary you can cap the rating with 3-4 pieces, it will be like getting your virtues to a high level before raiding

Ok that's a pretty silly analogy, running an Instance with gear 10 levels lower is not the same comparison as looking at an Instance that had NO gate and was widely popular. My point is simply that the most popular Instances in this game didn't have ANY gate and to suggest one is needed is in direct conflict with proven game history in LOTRO...

[cossieuk]

Ok that's a pretty silly analogy, running an Instance with gear 10 levels lower is not the same comparison as looking at an Instance that had NO gate and was widely popular. My point is simply that the most popular Instances in this game didn't have ANY gate and to suggest one is needed is in direct conflict with proven game history in LOTRO...

There is no gate to any of the instances in ROI. Finesse just makes to content a little bit easier, just like having your virtues at max level or getting a 1st age LI. My point is the Finesse is just like other optional extras that make things a little bit easier but not needed

[Mark_J]

There is no gate to any of the instances in ROI. Finesse just makes to content a little bit easier, just like having your virtues at max level or getting a 1st age LI. My point is the Finesse is just like other optional extras that make things a little bit easier but not needed

Finesse is not an optional extra for the Raids and Instances.

You honestly believe that 12 players will be taking down the dragon without loading up on Finesse?

[cossieuk]

Finesse is not an optional extra for the Raids and Instances.

You honestly believe that 12 players will be taking down the dragon without loading up on Finesse?

Not sure if 12 will do it but no doubt some will try, but I would bet that 24 will do it just for the challenge at some point, just like people did the Watcher 6 man and also did the LT 6 man. Most people will use it as it makes things easier

Also if Finesse is essential why is there none on the Minstrel raid set. Would this mean that a Minstrel could only heal in instances from now on and cant offer any DPS

[BelegShy]

Or its like running NCF without a healer. Its difficult but its duoable

[DelgonTheWise]

Finesse is not an optional extra for the Raids and Instances.

You honestly believe that 12 players will be taking down the dragon without loading up on Finesse?

12 people on dragon is challenge mode.

Challenge modes that are DPS races will no doubt need some finesse. e.g. if the OD races (trees, wound challenge mode) were made in the Finesse era, I doubt that folks would be doing them in tank/DPS roles without some finesse, and would require it for anyone going on the raid.

Finesse is a vastly softer gate than radiance. Nobody without the minimum radiance (including from a token or destiny) was allowed on the radiance runs in my experience. Difficult runs (or races) will probably put a premium on finesse for tanks/DPS. But the fact that finesse is on such a huge number of items -- and some class traits too -- makes it a really better thing than radiance -- itemization much more flexible, no armor lock-in, etc. Radiance you had enough or you didn't go. Finesse you can have none as a healer. DPS/tanks can have modest amounts for non-challenge mode runs, or runs that aren't difficult for the group. Only at the extreme case, doing challenge runs that are at the edge of group ability does it seem like high finesse will be demanded...