Interview with the Turbine Staff

[Hudson7]

LOL seriously? I didn't listen to it yet, but is this really what they said? That makes it even worse. Just because people stopped complaining when you promised them a 2 part change? Did they think they could get away with no part 2 because we stopped complaining? I've seen this LI question asked quite a few times about RoI and what's to follow, we always get an answer that said not with RoI, but that doesn't mean not after RoI, which a lot of us assumed. Oh well, looks like I'll have to go back on my LI crusade.

One other tidbit on this, not that it will totally change your mind, they did mention there is one thing for LIs they're implementing "soon" that they're not talking about yet.

[brunnhilda]

Don't scale raids.
Just move them to the level cap, duh?

What good is being able to do a raid at level 58 when I'm level 58 for a day?

The way this game is built and the amount of time they put into landscape quests and pushing you (literally) to the end game as fast as they can (without actually selling levels in The Store)....scalable raids is a waste. Hele was a joke, sorry.

Push them to 75. It will be easier and probably more worthwhile and they probably wouldn't have to be fragmented into wings.

Next level cap? Push it to the new level cap.

Sad thing is Wooties right. Changing rift into a soloable expierience is a slap in the face to the devs who TOILED to make it. As of now, Helegrod and Great Barrows (probably 2 of the funnest OLD instances)have been destroyed into bit piece encounters. I understand where the devs want to see life in Hele, Rift, GB, and other older instances...but am saddend to see that the f2pers will never expierience the old FUN instances. In my book, after Rift, the fun computation went out the door. I can only PRAY that the same folks designing the new 24 man dragon instance aren't the same folks who gave us the Turtle raid....

[lwk1138]

One other tidbit on this, not that it will totally change your mind, they did mention there is one thing for LIs they're implementing "soon" that they're not talking about yet.

Thanks for the info. I'm going to listen for sure. I'll wait and see what "soon" brings but I'm not holding much hope for the changes that are truly needed in the system. In the meantime I'm going to edit and update my LI proposal from 2009 (that's right - 3 years ago) since all the sudden it's relevant again.

[hucklebarry]

One other tidbit on this, not that it will totally change your mind, they did mention there is one thing for LIs they're implementing "soon" that they're not talking about yet.

Very true, but the wording was "1 more tweak in mind coming up that we aren't talking about yet". So I took "tweak" to mean not really major. But I'm sure more details will come later.

LI talk is around the 43 minute mark if you downloaded the .MP3.

[Hudson7]

Very true, but the wording was "1 more tweak in mind coming up that we aren't talking about yet". So I took "tweak" to mean not really major. But I'm sure more details will come later.

LI talk is around the 43 minute mark if you downloaded the .MP3.

Thanks for clarifying, I was doing it from memory.

[hucklebarry]

Thanks for clarifying, I was doing it from memory.

well... it was from the audio... so I can't be sure if he said "1" or "one"... but we'll see

[zhem]

Don't scale raids.
Just move them to the level cap, duh?

What good is being able to do a raid at level 58 when I'm level 58 for a day?

The way this game is built and the amount of time they put into landscape quests and pushing you (literally) to the end game as fast as they can (without actually selling levels in The Store)....scalable raids is a waste. Hele was a joke, sorry.

Push them to 75. It will be easier and probably more worthwhile and they probably wouldn't have to be fragmented into wings.

Next level cap? Push it to the new level cap.

That would be the smart and efficient thing to do. Thus, most likely won't happen.

[WinterStar]

I cant believe Turbine, they are wasting time just like that by re doing old stuff that there is no need to do so in the first place
Why the heck want to break the Rift? As it is its awsome
I really think you are weird and strange sometimes devs, because you literally destroy some of the awsome parts of LOTRO
Now i see why new content in LOTRO comes so slowly, its because Turbine works on old stuff, instead of new ,wow sounds like a fail

[hucklebarry]

I cant believe Turbine, they are wasting time just like that by re doing old stuff that there is no need to do so in the first place
Why the heck want to break the Rift?

One of the things they talked about was how one person hates a change and someone else loves the very same change. Apparently people are begging for Rift to be broken up. The only time this really becomes a problem is if EVERYONE hates EVERY change. Then they didn't listen well. But when they get conflicting notions... they have to try and pick and choose what makes the most sense based on their own direction and player feedback. I think I'd rather see it stay whole myself, but I have seen the requests for the instance splitting, so they aren't making that up.

[Southpa]

One of the things they talked about was how one person hates a change and someone else loves the very same change. Apparently people are begging for Rift to be broken up. The only time this really becomes a problem is if EVERYONE hates EVERY change. Then they didn't listen well. But when they get conflicting notions... they have to try and pick and choose what makes the most sense based on their own direction and player feedback. I think I'd rather see it stay whole myself, but I have seen the requests for the instance splitting, so they aren't making that up.

Yes, but what's wrong with the lock system? They have locks for a reason... unless they don't want a revamped raid to offer legit loot... cause that would be the only reason to implement a multi-level no-lock thing like Hele. Funny that Hele still offered legit armor, but it's not like many people ran it for more than the 5 minute daily very often anyway...d'oh.

If they revamped several old raids to give us more than one or two level-relevant raids to run per week....golly that would seem like a whole lot of end-game content. And people would do it. Skirmishes already exist for those who want a quick 12-man... Hele didn't have to be that way. It shouldn't have been that way.

[Lohi]

So there won't be an armor set at RoI launch except for... the armor set that will be there at RoI launch? Did I read that right?

I mean that "raid" armor is armor for raiders. That means there will not necessarily be armor for non-raiders. If there's an armor option from the 3 and 6 person instances then that's something more accessible to players. Maybe not as good as the raid gear but that's ok with me.

In other words at the start the only instance will be the raid (and scalable stuff but those will only give the same old grind for marks). If you don't raid then there's nothing but quests to do and you won't get special gear that way I assume. At least with Moria you do have 6 person instances to get some gear, you don't have to do Watcher or DN to get the upgrade from quest rewards.

Or maybe they're planning everything to be done with superior 4th marks. Ugh, that thought just frightened me...

[Crell_1]

Or maybe they're planning everything to be done with superior 4th marks. Ugh, that thought just frightened me...

Superior 4ths are how you acquire 4/6 pieces of the raid set.

[WinterStar]

One of the things they talked about was how one person hates a change and someone else loves the very same change. Apparently people are begging for Rift to be broken up. The only time this really becomes a problem is if EVERYONE hates EVERY change. Then they didn't listen well. But when they get conflicting notions... they have to try and pick and choose what makes the most sense based on their own direction and player feedback. I think I'd rather see it stay whole myself, but I have seen the requests for the instance splitting, so they aren't making that up.

So in that case Turbine should just leave the instances as they are
Afterall thats the way Turbine itself wanted to be played,otherwise they wouldnt have made it like that when they first starting creating it
And besides, is it really that much important for them to re do and break up old instances? really? ok so it worths more to have the same old content than new one, well done Turbine

[Fin.]

Can someone point me to the thread where players are BEGGING turbine to split Rift like they did with Helegrod?

In my book revamped Helegrod is failed design of a end game raid. 5 minute runs in under leveled content that gets you through 20% of one wing and you are eligible to get some of best end game rewards.

I don't believe the person responsible is able to do same mistake again. If so, one has to start question their intelligence.

[WinterStar]

Can someone point me to the thread where players are BEGGING turbine to split Rift like they did with Helegrod?

In my book revamped Helegrod is failed design of a end game raid. 5 minute runs in under leveled content that gets you through 20% of one wing and you are eligible to get some of best end game rewards.

I don't believe the person responsible is able to do same mistake again. If so, one has to start question their intelligence.

Indeed, i have never seen a single thread/post asking for the Rift to be broken up

[Lohi]

Right, it's something they've long wanted to do, but are understandably hesitant about. The Rift is a much, much beloved piece of content, probably moreso than anything else. So the question becomes how do you improve it or modernize it without destroying what was so beloved?

This is my concern, because I feel they did ruin Great Barrows to a very large degree. But Great Barrows had a lot more back story to it, a lot more outside quests, and a lot more players who had run it. Yanking out the lore and quests hurts a lot. Replacing them with one-liner objective quests hurt even more. Replacing the gentle introduction to learning instances with end game oriented tactics has scared away a lot of new players from running instances (and yes some have said just that). Splitting into wings has ripped out the "great" from Great Barrows. There's no clue how these wings fit together with each other, they may as well be three Lesser Barrows. No rewards except those stupid barter tokens, no housing item. What is left feels tremendously like a skirmish (and I hate skirmishes).

The Rift might scale more easily perhaps. It was so much longer than Great Barrows that splitting into wings makes much more sense. But only if done right, not with the random feel of GB. Most of the quests are locally obtained or obtained inside so they may fit the "auto grant simplistic quests" design style better, or at least hurt the psyche less than it did with Great Barrows. But real quests would be nice.

I'd like to see it more like Garth Agarwen where you have a real and honest hub connecting the wings and quest givers. Ie, if you still had to go to the camp of the Rift to get quests, you went down into the hole in the ground and had to fight past some elites to get to each wing entrance (lazy players could always use instance join if they absolutely must). Turn ins of barter items would be at the Rift not in the skirmish camp slums.

[WinterStar]

This is my concern, because I feel they did ruin Great Barrows to a very large degree. But Grand Stairs had a lot more back story to it, a lot more outside quests, and a lot more players who had run it. Yanking out the lore and quests hurts a lot. Replacing them with one-liner objective quests hurt even more. Replacing the gentle introduction to learning instances with end game oriented tactics has scared away a lot of new players from running instances (and yes some have said just that). Splitting into wings has ripped out the "great" from Great Barrows. There's no clue how these wings fit together with each other, they may as well be three Lesser Barrows. No rewards except those stupid barter tokens, no housing item. What is left feels tremendously like a skirmish (and I hate skirmishes).

Exacly, well said
And all these in the name of making the game even more easy than it is already
Seriously its this trend that has ruined many aspects of LOTRO, the trend of people asking for easier content(break up instances for expample)and now see what the game has become

[Lohi]

What good is being able to do a raid at level 58 when I'm level 58 for a day?

Because some players want to be able to outlevel them to make them easier. Sure chop out all the rewards if you must. But doing the original Helegrod with a mix of casual players from 50-60 was a lot of fun and you get a lot more interesting players that way. Doing it today was not so fun even with it scaled up. Making it super challenging makes it fun for some players but ruins the fun for other players (especially if they're not good enough to pass the gear checks).

I know there are people who are interested in finally getting the level 50 Rift done with the new expansion raising the levels.

[Lohi]

Superior 4ths are how you acquire 4/6 pieces of the raid set.

Ok, this is bad news. I hate the superior third marks stuff. I hate everyone saying "please anyone want to do school/library again?" and the followup "you don't have all your gear so how come you don't want to come and be a mindless grinding robot with us?"

[WinterStar]

I know there are people who are interested in finally getting the level 50 Rift done with the new expansion raising the levels.

And thats because those people simply didnt try enough

I dont believe people (and none should) who say that they havent get done some quests/instances because they require a group
Its because they dont try, what do you expect from soloers?soloers hate group content, so they just skip it and then they cry that they havent done it because they cant get a group...
yea,right.. So far i had no prob getting a group for all the fellowship quests, yes some times there was noone around but that doesnt mean its over, i was trying again later or next day and always was getting a fellowship

[revoked]

In other words at the start the only instance will be the raid (and scalable stuff but those will only give the same old grind for marks). If you don't raid then there's nothing but quests to do and you won't get special gear that way I assume.

Actually, you will get a fair amount of special gear from questing. There are many yellow rewards with stats more in line with the new stat system, items with finesse, etc.. That doesn't include items from the epic quest line (which I have not done because I am saving it for live). Also, it seems many of the scaled instances are dropping pretty good items as well. People were posting links to some pretty sweet instance drops in glff on beta.

[Southpa]

Because some players want to be able to outlevel them to make them easier. Sure chop out all the rewards if you must. But doing the original Helegrod with a mix of casual players from 50-60 was a lot of fun and you get a lot more interesting players that way. Doing it today was not so fun even with it scaled up. Making it super challenging makes it fun for some players but ruins the fun for other players (especially if they're not good enough to pass the gear checks).

I know there are people who are interested in finally getting the level 50 Rift done with the new expansion raising the levels.

They could make easier raids then I guess. I personally don't see the point in spending 2 or 3 hours beating something 10 levels or more below you, but I'm sure that appeals to a certain segment of the player base. I don't know why, but I suppose it does...

Make it Tier I and II then. Certainly most people would agree that OD on T1 is more than doable by less raid-hardened types - and it still offers some level-relevant reward. Unlike the current state of the Rift, which offers noting other than saying you did it - and as Hele would be if it hadn't become a skirmish.

Build the T1 version at level cap, but make the mobs function 5-10 levels below cap. Then make T2 as a real level-cap raid with additional mechanics. All of it could drop gear like OD does. OD is a good model to follow IMO (save the difference between T2 and a couple of the Challenges). I don't want to raid for skirmish marks, thanks.

[Lohi]

They could make easier raids then I guess.

But they could just let you keep doing the Rift at level 50 if you want, and scale it to 75 for those who want that.

I've never finished the Rift. Mostly because it's just soooo long that by the time you get to the end you have one or two tries to beat the fight before everyone calls it quits (including one memorable raid where a kid kept shouting during the instructions "let's get going, mom says it's a school night and I only have 5 minutes left!"). Usually the groups I am with are not raiders anyway, and as a PUG of non-raiders the coordination is just not there for this complex fight, and being a PUG we're not going to be coming back the next day with the same players to do it again must less practice a couple times a week until we figure it out.

So getting a few more levels reduces the penalty for making mistakes and increases chances of getting it done.

I personally don't see the point in spending 2 or 3 hours beating something 10 levels or more below you, but I'm sure that appeals to a certain segment of the player base. I don't know why, but I suppose it does...

Because we're not there for the rewards, and we're not there to prove how good we are. We just want to see the Balrog, cross the quest off our bucket list, etc.

The problem is that many people who do know the fights well are like you, they have zero interest in going back to help other people get it done. So when you do get a group probably only two or three have ever done it enough to really remember the strategies and fights.

[hucklebarry]

Can someone point me to the thread where players are BEGGING turbine to split Rift like they did with Helegrod?

You will need to utilize your forums search feature. There have been many.

[jayspeed]

Ok so the update 5 cluster will have an "In their Absence" type quest line. That's cool. It's also nice we're getting another epic book so soon after RoI. Keep the story going!

I do agree that the LI system is pretty decent right now. Removing the randomness made it a worth while system. HOWEVER, it's still too grindy. Scrolls of empowerment need to be revamped and I'm hoping that's the minor change they have planned. The grind for greater scrolls of empowerment is INSANE! It's better to buy them off the store since they're kinda cheap. They should offer 5 packs of GSoE for a discount. SoE are used by everyone with an LI at some point so they are really the most sought after item in the game. They need to be loot drops from raids/instances and quest rewards too.