When is it appropriate to give negative rep? Some seem to abuse the system

[sirwillow]

Quick disclaimer- I've only been hit with negative rep once, and it was quite a while ago. I can also count on both hands the number of times I'm aware of giving negative rep- and those were all to posts that were borderline being reportable- just outlandishly rude and inappropriate. I have NEVER given someone negative rep because I disagreed with them or disliked what they said.

That done, I see this pop up on the boards fairly often- people saying that they've been given negative rep on a post, and in looking over their post there wasn't anything worth giving negative rep for, other than someone apparently disagreeing with what they said. Here's what it says when you try to give negative rep:

Disapprove (e.g. Inflammatory, Derogatory, Disruptive, Trolling, or violates community guidelines)

Seems pretty clear to me- that's not just because you disagree or don't like what they say. You give negative rep because someone is essentially doing nothing but stirring up trouble, and not even being polite about it.

You shouldn't give it just because you disagree with someone. You don't give it because you don't want to accept what they say, even if they are right. You don't give it just because you don't like someone. You give it when they are crossing the lines of proper behavior.

At least that's how it's supposed to work. I find myself giving positive rep to people who have been hit with neg rep when they shouldn't, and it really bugs me when I see abuse like this. If anything, neg rep given for the wrong reasons is, itself, abuse of the system, the mods can (and do) review it if submitted to them, and you can get in trouble for improperly giving negative rep.

I'd love to see what others think and have to say about it.

[MilkPudding]

The rep system has made it pretty clear when to give negative rep but there will always be people abusing it, or any system. It's internet.

There's no need to fret about a few unjustified negative rep coz majority of the community knows how to use the system.

[Starrywisdom]

Thinking this may be in the wrong forum thread 'LOTRO News & Discussion » General Discussion' doesn't seem to be the right place to discuss the forum itself.

ontopic: Rep really doesn't matter[since it's not hard to boost or deboost]; so...does it really bother you?

[Armitas]

I totally agree with you. It should follow the guide lines.

Giving negative rep for a difference in opinion to me is similar to keying someones car because of a bumper sticker. You really have to be spiteful, bitter and generally messed up to attack someones person rather than engage in the civilized arena of discussing ideas.

[Vilost]

when someone's repeatedly trolling, I would. I would if I had enough rep :P I haven't tried recently but last time I did, apparently I didn't have enough rep to do so.

There are subtle trolls here, who I will not name, who I believe would deserve it.

But honestly if I have a problem with a post and it goes against the guidelines, I just report it. No point giving negative rep. Let the mods deal with it, that's what they're for.

I should note these forums have been among the most civilised I've ever seen - and I do mean ever. I've been an avid forum junky since UO through many many MMOs and it's quite a pleasant shock to actually see people willing to apologize for something they may have posted in haste (instead of inciting further flames by their defense).

As for negative rep - I'm not sure how you call someone on abuse? I dunno if I have ever had someone give me negative rep, maybe I have. I don't pay much attention to be frank. I suppose it would be useful if, when giving negative rep, instead of being anonymous someone had to leave their user name (though that would probably be a bad idea) or at least, a reason why they are giving it. Instead of just hitting the button and voila - neg rep.

Anyway just my thoughts

[Yula_the_Mighty]

It is reflection of real life. The standard for dealing with someone that does not agree with you is to destroy their reputation, integrity ... so that their voice is silenced.

Turbine can write rules saying no negative reputation unless it a forum TOS violation or close to it. Most people are not going to comply. Hence, you need a lot of positive reputation before you can start giving negative reputation. Once over that barrier, not a problem.

IMHO - The reason for lack of compliance is the over regulation in the modern world. We do not get any choice. Companies - Turbine is an excellent example - cram rules and regulations down our throats - that we do not like - do not want. The company says, you have to agree or do without the product or the service. In many cases, they do not tell you what the rules and regulations are. They are hidden in some non obvious place.

I find myself signing these agreements every month. I know when I am signing that I have no intention of complying. As a society, Americans have become numb to company, organization and government rules, regulations and laws. We have all become rule breakers.

When I was younger, my word or signature was my bond. I fully intended to comply. You can not live and survive in modern society this way. Ms. Yula and I have gotten over the unhappiness this situation causes. I use the following process:

1) Do I want to do it?
2) How likely am I to be caught?
3) What is the punishment?
4) What will my friends think?

A lot times I decide, to break the rules especially when the rule conflicts with my own standards. This is situation with negative reputation - Turbine's rule is in conflict with the customer position - You get disobedience.

I do not have any problems admitting that I broke the rule. Or accepting the punishment.

Bottom Line - It is easy to comply with a rule when the rule lines up with your own internal operating rules.

[Happyfish]

I don't understand negative rep. If you are giving it, the thread should be closed, or the post moderated. There's already a report post feature, so do you get points for giving neg rep? I'm only 100 pts away from this awesome feature, inquiring minds want to know!

[sirwillow]

ontopic: Rep really doesn't matter[since it's not hard to boost or deboost]; so...does it really bother you?

This was actually derived from a discussion on another thread, where it was off topic, so I started this to move that discussion to a more appropriate place. So it was an attempt to clean up a thread and not divert it.

I'm happy that you don't think rep matters. That's obviously not true for others who do care about their reputation. I've been more upset a couple of times when I was falsely accused of negative rep'ing people because I had disagreed with them (funny thing was that actually came once from a person I'd given positive rep to). I've got enough positive that a pop or two of negative isn't going to affect me at all, so no, in that regard it doesn't affect me.

If it doesn't matter to you, or you con't care, then just ignore the rep system then- as some do. But for those that it does matter to, it would be nice to clarify a bit- and hopefully curb a little bit of the abuse.

[Yula_the_Mighty]

I don't understand negative rep. If you are giving it, the thread should be closed, or the post moderated.

I do not give negative reputation any more.

There's already a report post feature,

I use this feature instead.

There is probably an explanation of the reputation of the how the system currently works somewhere. It has been tweaked a number of times. I have not kept up on negative reputation since I decided to stop using it.

[Vilost]

Ok so now I have a question -

what does it do?

Since you have to wait so long to give positive rep (I'm referring to the you need to spread rep around before you can rep this person message), is it the same with negative? where the heck are these rules written anyway? I've never seen anything either way, except when I clicked the rep button and there's the two options.

Normally I try to give + rep to people who come up with funny stuff, instructional stuff that sort of thing - I often find I'm giving rep to the same people! (go figure)

My thought is: if someone gives you negative rep - can't you give them negative rep back (if you were so inclined)? Then you have a negative rep war, so what stops that from happening?

Anyway just curious as I've (obviously) never thought about it before - except in very personal terms as I mentioned in my first post.

[Swabbie]

NOW ON SALE IN LOTRO STORE:

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*does not apply to anything anywhere ever

More seriously, what's a rep?

[Nymphonic]

You know my "Worst quest in 4 1/2 years thread I have going? http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...years-of-LOTRO.

I've been hit with negative rep twice on that first post. I would like someone to tell me where in that post I deserve negative rep.

I used to get mad but now, I just let it go.

[Crell_1]

I'm happy that you don't think rep matters. That's obviously not true for others who do care about their reputation. I've been more upset a couple of times when I was falsely accused of negative rep'ing people because I had disagreed with them (funny thing was that actually came once from a person I'd given positive rep to). I've got enough positive that a pop or two of negative isn't going to affect me at all, so no, in that regard it doesn't affect me.

And really, why shouldn't we care about our reputation in the community and how it reflects on us? Obviously the +rep indicator should not be something we care about more highly than holding to the standards we set for ourselves, but it is something that reflects on how the community is taking our interactions..

For example I was recently -repped 'Trolling in an informational thread'. Do I think I was trolling? No. But someone clearly did, so I need to reconsider what I go out of my way to post.

But do I pay any heed to the -rep comment 'Stop acting like you're a turbine PR employee' ? nope. None what-so-ever.

I'm an optimist, and someone willing to call out discrepancies where I see it, on both sides, that doesn't mean I'm going to let you 'attack the poster' or encourage you from using a 'straw man' argument when I feel I can attempt to disuade you from that.

I've got enough positive that a pop or two of negative isn't going to affect me at all, so no, in that regard it doesn't affect me.

I think what gets me is the -neg rep dings are so large, by virtue of the poster needing so much +rep to get the ability.

But you're right, I've got enough rep that it'd take something pretty major to go from appearing as an active participating productive community member, to someone who'd likely be taken for a troll anytime I post.

(Come on, who gave serious credit to raid skirmishes dropping worn symbols before there was a poster in that thread with at least a few green rep bars behind their name saying so?)-

[Nymphonic]

More seriously, what's a rep?

I dunno, but I just gave you one!

[Crell_1]

what does it do?

Makes the little green bar grow.

Since you have to wait so long to give positive rep (I'm referring to the you need to spread rep around before you can rep this person message), is it the same with negative?

No idea about negative. you need 1500 +Rep before you can -rep. The positive reputation requires you to give it to multiple people to make it more difficult to game the system.

Then you have a negative rep war, so what stops that from happening?

Absue of the reputation system can lead to Moderation and forum account infractions for all users involved. This would qualify.

[Amorey]

Hello,

I am a recent arrival from Europe on the forums and I must admit I know very little of how this reputation system works, I do however enjoy be part of my server forum community and do my best to be kind and welcoming and helpful when I can. So one day I noticed someone gave me a negative reputation for this post :

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...23#post5622123

I have no idea why I was given such bad reputation. To be honest it is a bit scary and intimidating for me to know I could be given a negative reputation just because someone disagree with me or do not understand what I am trying to say

[sirwillow]

Ok so now I have a question -

what does it do?

Since you have to wait so long to give positive rep (I'm referring to the you need to spread rep around before you can rep this person message), is it the same with negative? where the heck are these rules written anyway?

You can only give reputation out so many times within a day (8 I think?), and after you give reputation to someone you have to give reputation out to so many other people (I think 10) before you can give someone repuation again. Positive or negative doesn't matter in that regard. I don't know what happened to the reputation FAQ. Used to be one, but I don't know if it's even current anymore.

Negative reputation will actually drop the number of reputation points you have, so if you got into a rep war with someone, at some point one of you will go below the amount of reputation required to give negative rep (1500 rep points) You will probably both also get in trouble with the mods for abusing the rep system.

You know my "Worst quest in 4 1/2 years thread I have going? http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...years-of-LOTRO.

I've been hit with negative rep twice on that first post. I would like someone to tell me where in that post I deserve negative rep.

I used to get mad but now, I just let it go.

And this is a perfect example of negative rep being blatanty misused and abused. That's imbecillic to give you negative rep for that post and thread. And that's the politest word I can think of. Obviously you've got enough rep that it really doesn't matter, but still, it's the thought/ principle of the thing.

The only time I've negative rep'd posts is when I just couldn't quite justify reporting the posts, but it was strongly leaning in that direction. I don't understand how any of your posts could come close to that. I'd love to know who these people are who give negative rep to posts like yours, but doubt we ever will. those are the ones that hide in the internet.

[Khafar]

There isn't any reasonable way for this to be enforced (beyond watching for patterns of people farming rep or piling on a particular poster in some organized manner), so it comes down to etiquette. I've only given negative rep 3 times now in the past 20 months: 2 for what amounted to flagrant Forum Guideline vioations, and 1 to run an experiment recently. But if I wanted to, I could give out negative rep for atrocious spelling, and as long as I don't say why I'm doing so... it's not likely to get me in trouble. I don't do that kind of thing because I think that would violate the spirit and intended use of the system, not because I think I'd get infracted for it.

That's the bad news. The good news is that you cannot give rep (positive or negative) to the same poster all that often, and negative rep is only half as large as positive rep so it's biased in the "positive" direction.

I get negative rep too sometimes, both for reasonable reasons and for unreasonable ones (based on comments left). *shrug* Comes with the territory on a public forum.

(FYI: the results of that experiment showed that I can ding someone for -49 and bump someone for +99 with an overall positive rep of +8429).

Khafar

[Nymphonic]

(FYI: the results of that experiment showed that I can ding someone for -48 and bump someone for +99 with an overall positive rep of +8429).

Khafar

Ahhh, so it is half. Ok, I feel better now lol. Thanks!

[Laldail]

You know my "Worst quest in 4 1/2 years thread I have going? http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...years-of-LOTRO.

I've been hit with negative rep twice on that first post. I would like someone to tell me where in that post I deserve negative rep.

I used to get mad but now, I just let it go.

Probably the last line about Lalia, were I to guess. Did you deserve it? Not even remotely. But you never know what is going to push someone's buttons.

[Nymphonic]

Probably the last line about Lalia, were I to guess. Did you deserve it? Not even remotely. But you never know what is going to push someone's buttons.

You know, that is a good point.

[sirwillow]

H
I have no idea why I was given such bad reputation. To be honest it is a bit scary and intimidating for me to know I could be given a negative reputation just because someone disagree with me or do not understand what I am trying to say

Not a clue either as to why you got negative reputation on that one. I thought it was a fine post.

It's a perfect example of me wondering what the heck some people are giving negative repuation out for, if no other reason than because they can. There wasn't ANY reason to give you negative rep on that post.

[hucklebarry]

When is it appropriate to give negative rep?

The guidelines you quoted mention trolling. IMHO, that means lots and lots and lots of posts actually "deserve" negative rep. However, I typically save my negative dings for people that are being rude and abusive to others. Report the post as well, I will do both if possible.

I've never dinged over opinion but have received a couple. Doesn't bother me much. It just means someone is overly opinionated and can't comprehend views outside of their own. Not sure that should bother anyone when you realize the type of person you've offended. But I understand the clean slate mentality and there really isn't much you can do when tools like this exist.

Bottom line... Don't change what you want to say simply because a stranger from another part of the world might put a red flag that ONLY you will ever see on your post. (within the ToS of course )

[Fredelas]

Hello,

I am a recent arrival from Europe on the forums and I must admit I know very little of how this reputation system works, I do however enjoy be part of my server forum community and do my best to be kind and welcoming and helpful when I can. So one day I noticed someone gave me a negative reputation for this post :

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...23#post5622123

I have no idea why I was given such bad reputation. To be honest it is a bit scary and intimidating for me to know I could be given a negative reputation just because someone disagree with me or do not understand what I am trying to say

Someone may have given you negative reputation accidentally. While it's very difficult to do this accidentally, since reputation defaults to positive, I actually did it myself once and realized it immediately afterward. (I had written a grateful comment in the box but accidentally clicked the negative button.)

There's no way for players to retract or amend reputation they've granted, so I sent a private message to the poster with my sincere apologies.

[AlphaMan]

Given that your green bar has to be pretty high before you can actually give any rep, and that there are so few people with bars that high, it must be all of you giving each other negative rep! (I kid, I kid, don't give me - rep!)

In all honesty though, as much as it might affect how you view a post, how rampant of a problem can it be if so few people are capable of doing it in the first place? As far as I'm aware anyway.