Lothrandir is my favorite Ranger now...

[little_stone]

Though we are big fans of him.

MoL

Yeah, I could tell.

I noted at least 4 or 5 things (like sending messages by ravens) that were very GoT'ish in the Isen expansion.

I chuckled every time.

[stargazer2009]

Other than Aragorn, of course. I mean, first he leisurely one-shots two men who try to backstab him. Just turns around and swipes them, saying "You're a fool if you think to best a Ranger so easily!". Then he endures whips while struggling all the way to Isengard, but still manages to be manly enough to stand up on his feet and walk into Isengard without fear, even giving a proud little speech while he's at it. And on top of it, he seems to be one of the more worldly Rangers, becoming good friends with the Lossoth and being chummy with the men of Dunland.

Turbine, please don't kill him off in Saruman's dungeons, he's too awesome

my favorite rangers are, halbarad, golodir, and calenglad

[Thane9]

The only thing I didn't like, in the caverns below after freeing the rangers....Lheu Brennin would not have left that cavern alive if I was that close to him. They may have killed my character for doing it, but he would have died right there and then if I was that close....No second thought about it...

First off I want to say what LotRO does with the story line and how it's woven into LotR is nothing short of a masterwork.

Now having said that. This is a theme I felt being repeated this expansion.

There were multiple occasions in which I felt that my heroic arc was being hindered a LOT.

For the record I would've gone down fighting too. And I wouldn't have left that town under evil control. And I wouldn't have stood by and let Saruman bully that town and take that kids father away. And I wouldnt have left the riders to die at the mustering tree. Etc etc

This expansion has felt like one big series of Kobiashi Marus for me.

[Thoronthor]

So far confirmed survivors besides Elrohir, Elladan and Halbarad are Golodir, Radanir, Saeradan, Amlan, Dagoras and Daervunn. Two more Rangers are confirmed KIA: Andreg and Braigiar. (Oddly enough Dagoras says that Braigiar was killed by Orc ambush in Grawenwood when you first talk to him in Nan Curunir. And yet he most clearly died before that in Tur Morva. Any comments, Berephon?) The fate of three more is uncertain: Amarion failed to report from patrol, Calenglad was among those ambushed by Falcons and not heard of since and Lothrandir was last seen before out imprisonment in dungeons.

Judging from Brenin's taunts it would appear that from original 55 named Rangers only 30+ something remained alive, so I would estimate at least 20 deaths from the hands on the Falcon. What greatly disappointed me though, was that both Rangers we rescue in Chapter 30 and Grey Company Suppliers/Healers throughout Ranger camps are left unnamed. Previously every NPC with function had a name, but in RoI everyone not involved in a quest is apparently named Forge-Master, Expert Scholar, Provisioner etc. (One of the letdowns of RoI as a whole btw. Did your random name generator broke?), so we have no way to know who else made it out. Personally, I am very concerned about Areneth, Langlas, Corunir, Culang, Nethraw, Mincham, Orthonn, Prestadir, Himerion and Idhrenfair - those are the ones we communicated with most in the past.

I agree as well, I was a bit put off when all the rangers in the cells were unnamed, would have been nice to seen some familiar names. It would be nice to know all 30 rangers by the time we reach Aragorn, not be left with Halbarad, the twins and 30 unknown rangers we have no attachment to.

If I am not mistaken Prestadir is still standing in the courtyard at Llanuch in Enedwaith, I remember because I went back there and thought to myself "what is he still doing here". But I can't check now cus the servers are down.
Since they phased out rangers in other area's as well when they moved on I am thinking he is supposed to be there, he doesn't give me any more quests so there must be a reason, maybe Berephon can enlighten us.

About Nar, I thought it was exceptionally well done and I am glad he is still alive, I actually felt a bit sick to my stomach when Saruman told me he had him killed, could feel the despair so kudos to the writers, I completely fell for it.

[SungXe]

Nar the old dwarf...well no matter how i look at it, the plot is not satisfying.
Nar specifically plays a role in the lvl75 Quest for the Raid, on the other hand this quest appears not be necessary happen when we actually advance to "75" breaching with Quickbeam's aid into CN. So this could very well "happen" before we get captured in Isengard. But then again why would we spend weeks chasing a treasure myth between helping the Boar clan and Falcon Clan.

If i conclude this Raid Quest happens after the imprisonment of me, this would mark Saruman way to petty. Disguising the truth and twisting it, yes that bears the mark of the many colors, but outright lie and make things up? *shrug* Saruman always appeared to me like when you take a half full / empty glass he would convince me of whichever i prefer if it serves his needs. But he wouldn't toss in an empty glass and state it's full when i'm thirsty. He would at least trick me into believing how i can quickly fill it up. Anyway you get the point.


As for the angmarin woman without name. Twice i bested her, twice i was forced to show mercy. Incapable of finding decent food or even kill a Ranger (hint) , she manages to not only track me, no.., she even manages to get around in dunland, thought the texture models are recycled Angmar is not even remotely Dunland. She is just as much an outsider as me.

Let's just hope it does not end up in another dead story thing. I think i can spare a third time of mercy. Beside if a NAME is what she is after, i heard there will be soon a vacant spot for the "old witch of the mountain" thing. I think she would love that .



As for Rangers, well the thing is i had a good time watching THEM doing mundane Task for the Falcon clan along me. But i think the overall issue is it's been such a long time (over a year?) since i did those "gather them in Eriador" part, i barely remember my decision especially with many alts. Would have been a more convincing way to somehow reintroduce them outside of quick Videos (The guy dieing at Weathertop). To actually remember our decisions.

Despite turbine's efforts all the Rangers seem like helpless pawns. And the ones barely make an effort worth remembering (like fighting lesser evils and dieing like a Captains Herold) well ...er, just die on the spot, they sure seem like a helpless lot.

So in the grand scheme of things, i liked Andreg. He was the only one actually at least really fighting and talking with us, not treating us like some errand boy (at least in dunland) ..and guess what, yep he died. ARGH!

[Thoronthor]

There sure is. I didn't catch his name but he shows up in the 'Moors a lot

well until very recently that moors Ranger was every bit as useless as the others, if not more so.

[Brya]

While talking about the Epics, I was really heartbroken when Saruman revealed that he had Nár killed. Poor Nár

I took that as a lie, or at least what saruman perceived to be the truth. If you remember from book 3, Saruman had sent a force of Uruks to kill Nar - but you and the rangers saved him.

We therefore know that Nar is alive - From our character's perspectives there is no confusion.

What about Halros?

Didn't he die before book 4? Might be talking rubbish, but something makes me think he's dead...

Looking forward to Book V and hopefully seeing some more familiar faces, you'll just need to add a graveyard somewhere to post Mincham!

Brainflash! Freshly buried grave housing item to commermerate your fallen Ranger brethen and give them a nice final resting place (Unless you have a dwarven house :P)

[Macfeast]

I took that as a lie, or at least what saruman perceived to be the truth. If you remember from book 3, Saruman had sent a force of Uruks to kill Nar - but you and the rangers saved him.

We therefore know that Nar is alive - From our character's perspectives there is no confusion.

The point is moot now that it was revealed that Saruman was lying, but still; At that point, our characters had no way of knowing if Saruman was lying or not. How would they know that Saruman was not referring to a second force, rather than the one we defeated? That we were there to defeat the first force doesn't stop him from sending a second force, that likely would succeed without us being present. It would seem awfully sloppy of Saruman to lie about an attack that we might have been able to stop (seeing as we were in the area at the time), rather than lie about a second attack taking place that we would not have been able to stop due to having moved on from the area; It would be like the Mouth of Sauron lying to the hosts of the West, not about the fate of Frodo and Sam, that they would not know about, but rather the outcome of the Battle of the Pelennor Fields.

[keewa]

Nar the old dwarf...well no matter how i look at it, the plot is not satisfying.
Nar specifically plays a role in the lvl75 Quest for the Raid, on the other hand this quest appears not be necessary happen when we actually advance to "75" breaching with Quickbeam's aid into CN. So this could very well "happen" before we get captured in Isengard. But then again why would we spend weeks chasing a treasure myth between helping the Boar clan and Falcon Clan.

If i conclude this Raid Quest happens after the imprisonment of me, this would mark Saruman way to petty. Disguising the truth and twisting it, yes that bears the mark of the many colors, but outright lie and make things up? *shrug* Saruman always appeared to me like when you take a half full / empty glass he would convince me of whichever i prefer if it serves his needs. But he wouldn't toss in an empty glass and state it's full when i'm thirsty. He would at least trick me into believing how i can quickly fill it up. Anyway you get the point.

Saruman was trying to upset you.
"Give up hope! All is lost! Join me and be spared!" etc. Not petty, just devious.

[Elendric]

Brainflash! Freshly buried grave housing item to commermerate your fallen Ranger brethen and give them a nice final resting place (Unless you have a dwarven house :P)

If I could have Mincham stand vigil outside my house, I'd love it! Though I'd have to pass on the freshly buried grave part, I've seen Poltergeist and no doubt some idiot would build a pool there in the future

[Svalgrim]

The point is moot now that it was revealed that Saruman was lying, but still; At that point, our characters had no way of knowing if Saruman was lying or not. How would they know that Saruman was not referring to a second force, rather than the one we defeated? That we were there to defeat the first force doesn't stop him from sending a second force, that likely would succeed without us being present. It would seem awfully sloppy of Saruman to lie about an attack that we might have been able to stop (seeing as we were in the area at the time), rather than lie about a second attack taking place that we would not have been able to stop due to having moved on from the area; It would be like the Mouth of Sauron lying to the hosts of the West, not about the fate of Frodo and Sam, that they would not know about, but rather the outcome of the Battle of the Pelennor Fields.

I would argue here that would be making Nar awfully important to Saruman. Like sending two elimination squads and personally overseeing the operation (otherwise he might not even know that the first attempt has failed)... I'd rather imagine him sending a craban to an Uruk-commander in Enedwaith with an order "to take care of a dwarf in a cave". Lack of positive report back is alarming but not too much. Uruk might be slacking, craban could have had fatal accident on the road. Nothing worthy to look into immediately. Remember, all this is about an expired source-of-information completely mad dwarf and a Wizard, who is trying to challenge Sauron. And Nar existence as inportant as Pellenor Battle outcome? Far-fetched, isn't it?

I'd say from character perspective there is a possibility of a second attempt, but it seems that such out-of-ordinary movements of Orc forces tend to be noticed and become known. I'd assume since we hadn't heard of such there was none... And catching Saruman on outright lies ought to help to resist his charms if not negating them completely.

[Macfeast]

I would argue here that would be making Nar awfully important to Saruman. Like sending two elimination squads and personally overseeing the operation (otherwise he might not even know that the first attempt has failed)... I'd rather imagine him sending a craban to an Uruk-commander in Enedwaith with an order "to take care of a dwarf in a cave". Lack of positive report back is alarming but not too much. Uruk might be slacking, craban could have had fatal accident on the road. Nothing worthy to look into immediately. Remember, all this is about an expired source-of-information completely mad dwarf and a Wizard, who is trying to challenge Sauron. And Nar existence as inportant as Pellenor Battle outcome? Far-fetched, isn't it?

I'd say from character perspective there is a possibility of a second attempt, but it seems that such out-of-ordinary movements of Orc forces tend to be noticed and become known. I'd assume since we hadn't heard of such there was none... And catching Saruman on outright lies ought to help to resist his charms if not negating them completely.

I'm not saying that Nar was as important to Saruman as the outcome of the battle of the Pelennor Fields, not even remotely. What I'm saying, is that Saruman lying to us about the attack, would be lying about the outcome of an event, to the very characters that were present for the event. In that sense, it is comparable to the Mouth of Sauron example; They would both be lying to the very persons who would instantly recognise it as such.

Remember, Saruman planned for us to meet with Nar, so he should at least have taken into account that we might have still been in the area at the time of the attack. True, that we were able to stop it was thanks to the words of Ergothorn, but were still in the area; I find it unlikely that he wouldn't at least have considered the possibility of us thwarting the attempt. Therefore, I think it would be wiser off him to lie about a second attack taking place (and it really doesn't have to take place at all, all he needs to do is fool us into thinking it did) than to lie about an attack that he would have realized we might have been present for.
As for Nar's importance to Saruman; If he was off no importance, why bother sending a first attack at all?

As for why we wouldn't hear about a second attempt; We had left the area. Who would bring word back to us of the attack? There were only the two lone dwarves there, and there would be no second Ergothorn.

All I'm saying is, if Saruman was lying about the first attack, then that would have been very sloppy of him. If he was lying about a second attack taking place, I don't think our characters had any means of knowing that he was lying at that point. They could guess, sure, but there would have been no definitive proof available.

Still, I think my biggest doubts comes when looking at it from a storytelling point-of-view; It would be a bit of a letdown to be brought before Saruman and have him try to get into our heads by...telling a really obvious lie, that we would instantly know to be false. Makes it seem like we have the advantage from the very start. That's why my first impression was that he was referring to a second attack.
To give another example with the Mouth of Sauron; Him revealing the fate of Frodo. At that point in the books, a first-time reader would not know if he was lying or not. Thats what gives the scene such an impact; It wouldn't be nearly as effective if the order of the chapters were reversed, so that it would be known at that point that Frodo got out. That's what makes me doubt Saruman would be lying about the first attack, the one we stopped; What is supposed to be a really important and powerful scene would lose a lot of it's impact if we instantly knew that he was lying.

---

On another note...has anyone tried not resisting Saruman's sweet-talk?

[dadiro95]

Ya i know he is a cool ranger!!
He is brave and all!
Loved the story line. Thanks everyone!
Take care, safe travels.

[dadiro95]

Though we are big fans of him.

MoL

Lol uhoh,
But please dont let him die He's so cool.

/signed for Lothrandir living

[Ellyllon]

Oh, mine too - though I have to say, my heart is now with the Rohirrim. Theodred actually held threat from my fiery rk, and they're just so amazing. When I was in beta (which was only once because I didn't want to ruin the story), I went immediately to their camp, saw the still had the same 'man of bree' type models & despaired. Seeing these guys in game made me so happy.

The story quests are amazing - I stumbled into The Book Surprise part by accident, and it was just the best thing, like a great single player game. I loved it. The Rangers actually make sense in this part (I questioned their 'fake ring' idea before) It's absolutely wonderful. Well done! I find myself hoping to save Theodred at the Ford, despite fore-knowledge & fate. Can't wait for the rest!

[Chrysoprase]

I just want to say that Dagoras has usurped Lorthrandir as my favorite ranger now that I am questing around Isengard. Apparently Dagoras has decided that the Grey Company is full of losers, and that he should instead try to single-handedly conquer Isengard, because he's DAGORAS, and that is what Dagoras does. He's a total nutter. It's awesome.

[HekilYang]

/signed OMG plz don't kill him, i'll buy a lot of TP and be good, but let Lothrandir live!!! Losing Laerdan in vol 1 and Candaith more recently really sucked, i was left without a favourite npc till now that i have Lothrandir.
So we rescued Bori from the dungeons of Dol Guldur and now we WILL rescue Lothrandir from the dungeons of Isengard!!!
Other rangers that i like are Corunir and Daervunn, i hope nothing happens to them cuz Corunir scared me at Nar's peak lol...

[Lilka]

I just want to say that Dagoras has usurped Lorthrandir as my favorite ranger now that I am questing around Isengard. Apparently Dagoras has decided that the Grey Company is full of losers, and that he should instead try to single-handedly conquer Isengard, because he's DAGORAS, and that is what Dagoras does. He's a total nutter. It's awesome.

Dagoras is my favourite too, after we arrived at Fordirith and promptly had to go and rescue him from a cage. A lot of his dialogue was light-hearted and fun, and he did give me the impression of being a slightly mad uncle, reinforced by his request for Dunlending uniforms "that haven't got blood and bits of brain all over them".

From a roleplaying perspective, Lothrandir always had a special place in my heart as I have this little backstory in my head that Lothrandir was the reason Lilka left Forochel; he taught her about the wider world and from there she went to Annuminas and got mixed up in all this story.

I'm getting very attached to the Rangers, though, and numerous points of this epic were handled extremely well. Extra bonus points for the Braigiar and Théodred scenario, the execution of which made the quest so much more touching.

[Gilean-EU]

I'm getting very attached to the Rangers, though, and numerous points of this epic were handled extremely well. Extra bonus points for the Braigiar and Théodred scenario, the execution of which made the quest so much more touching.

Agreed 100%! Before first book of Volume 3 was actually out and we learned from dev diaries that the new Volume is called "Allies of King", how it's about gathering the rangers and following the Grey Company, I was sure I am going to love this Epic volume. And I have to say I haven't got disappointed yet! In my opinion, Volume 3 books beat all other books story-wise hands down!

I also feel I am getting more attached to the Rangers, maybe it's because we are dealing with them much more than before, and they are starting to show more character than before.

And I loved how Théodred picked up Braigiar's body and carried it on his shoulder away, from the middle of enemy-infested camp. And how Halbarad said afterwards that now they are in debt to those rohirrim, especially Théodred, and they see that debt paid.

You know, Epic Books are starting to feel more and more like Epic BOOK and I can't wait to "read" the next chapter and see how the story continues!

[Laerien]

/signed

"I am Lothrandir of the Dúnedain."
"I have walked among the frozen wastes and the fiery south-lands."
"I do not fear this place."

Epic!!!

[Alex_Knight]

I liked Lothrandir and was also sad that I could not save him from Isengard. I will say, I hope they do kill him. Look at this thread. It's full of people who have grown attached to the character. What better way to make us want to succeed and see this enemy crushed than to kill someone so beloved, or twist him against us?

That said, I like this part of the epic story/ quest line. I actually stopped to consider how many people have died to help us. Rangers, Dunlendings, Rohirrim even Uruk! (I actually felt bad that I had to betray the Uruk - whose name currently escapes me - that was your handler after meeting with Saruman. I know that if the opportunity arose, he'd turn on me in a second. Guess that's why we're the good guys.)

[Zetsubousensei]

Rescuing Lothrandir should be easy pie, seeing we've already retrieved a dward from under the noses of three ringwraiths. It is a problem though that he is up in the tower and not in the dungeons. The whole thing will probably involve Gun Ain somehow. Incidentally, it was clear she was the woman skulking in Falcon clan lands, not Nona, as Nona is elsewhere at that time, and there's no other women around who would be following the Rangers. Still a surprise that she was in Saruman's service.

I'll also need to give some props to Candaith due to his action in Amon Sul skirmish. Especially pre-nerf when he was able to single-handedly defend the summit.

[Reniannen]

Rescuing Lothrandir should be easy pie, seeing we've already retrieved a dward from under the noses of three ringwraiths. It is a problem though that he is up in the tower and not in the dungeons. The whole thing will probably involve Gun Ain somehow. Incidentally, it was clear she was the woman skulking in Falcon clan lands, not Nona, as Nona is elsewhere at that time, and there's no other women around who would be following the Rangers. Still a surprise that she was in Saruman's service.

I'll also need to give some props to Candaith due to his action in Amon Sul skirmish. Especially pre-nerf when he was able to single-handedly defend the summit.

By the time you were looking for the footprints you didn't even know Nona (and Gun Ain) was in Dunland (For the record I thought it was Gwyllion)

[Lemarex]

/signed

Please don't kill Lothrandir :-( Please let me go rescue him right now!! If it had been up to me I wouldn't have left Isengard without getting him out in the first place, but whatever...dumb epic quests! He's the coolest ranger. Let him live!!!!

[djheydt]

Simply and well said my friend.

I am a real geek...truly and completely. My characters seem to get caught up with NPCs and terrible things happen. My hunter was in love with Laerdan...and you know how that went. I am also angry at the devs for making Laerdan a carbon copy of Elladan/Elrohir. He is a major character, PLEASE give him a unique template (give him his old look back he was gorgeous).

My champ now has it bad for Lothrandir. I love the epic story and am crushed that he got left behind in Isengard. I notice many other folks also feel its rediculous that we left without him, or without planning to go back.

PLEASE dont be so fail Turbine as to kill him off. Let him live. Something good has to come of all the horror vested on middle earth by Saruman. Let us feel like real heroes for once (this game sadly never gives me that heroic feeling, things always spiral out of control or are left hanging) and let us rescue sweet Lothrandir. Have pity on my poor Rhyleigh!

Have you guys done III.6.1 yet? The dream sequence?

In case you haven't and dislike spoilers ..... SPOILERS ENSUE.









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In that dream, parts of which prophesy what will happen in the rest of III.6, the spirit of Candaith tells you, "The only one who can save Lothrandir is Lothrandir."

Maybe that's what will happen. Maybe we'll get to see it.

Edit: Drat, I got top-posted again.

Another thing that has occurred to me:

We have just finished the day of the Battle of the Isen, February 25. We are perhaps one or two days past it by the end of III.6

According to Appendix B of The Return of the King, the Tale of Years, on March 3 "Ents complete the desctruction of Isengard."

And, as you recall, they destroy it not only by tearing down many of its walls, but by diverting the Isen into it and flooding all its subterranean chambers.

If Lothrandir is going to save himself, as we all hope, he must do it within the next week, internal time.