Tracking an Old Goat

[RicardoFurriel]

Agreed, this is great if they now allow you to grab it from another Andreg. Also making it shareable would be awesome.

AFAIC, u can only grab the quests from another Andreg if you haven't finished the chain.

[Lurkerinthemist]

On Bullroarer currently Saeradan reissues the quest "Seeking a Solution." This was a quest with a serious issue and not being able to continue it prevented players from continuing with a LOT of quests in the region, a much worse issue than Tracking an Old Goat. I am very glad that the people who were impacted by this now have a solution.

But is there any reason why Saeradan can't reissue these quests as well? I ran all over the area hopinghopinghoping there was a solution some where on Bullroarer for our friend the Old Goat. But there isn't.

./sadface

[Hurin]

On Bullroarer currently Saeradan reissues the quest "Seeking a Solution." This was a quest with a serious issue and not being able to continue it prevented players from continuing with a LOT of quests in the region, a much worse issue than Tracking an Old Goat. I am very glad that the people who were impacted by this now have a solution.

But is there any reason why Saeradan can't reissue these quests as well? I ran all over the area hopinghopinghoping there was a solution some where on Bullroarer for our friend the Old Goat. But there isn't.

./sadface

It would make more sense to put the missing quests on the Andreg that is still standing outside the Slade of Shadows even after he's. . . well, I'll leave that out since it's a spoiler.

While I understand why Turbine generally keeps silent most of the time (while we aren't "five year-olds," the vast majority of the community behaves as though we are), and I don't expect a public response, and I don't want Berephon to appear to appease those who have been. . . er, less than charitable in this thread. . .

I do hope that Berephon by now sees that his initial impression of the root cause here was incorrect. Rather than inattentive players, the root cause is a deed that was put into the game with only the target audience of beta testers already aware of this chain's mechanics in mind. Unfortunately the red warning text at the point of no return only makes sense and conveys a proper warning to those who actually would not need it. To everyone else, it merely says: "If you have any quests from me currently underway, finish them first." It does not explain that there might be other quests from Andreg out there (which are listed on the deed) that you will not be able to obtain, thus locking you out of completing the deed forever.

I realize it's just a deed. But as time passes and I complete this on my alts, it becomes more and more annoying that I will never have this deed completed on my main which I hoped one day to be my "deed completionist" toon. And, to be blunt, the dismissive response from Berephon makes the "burn" here somewhat worse. It should be clear by now that the problem was not with people not reading, but with the quest line's design and the fact that Andreg's "red text warning," in context and with no prior knowledge, does not actually convey critical information to those not already familiar with this quest line's mechanics and potential pitfalls (via beta testing or being the designer!).

I really hope that Turbine/Berephon reverse course here, see how this quest line operates from the perspective of an average player without prior knowledge, and implement a fix for all the people who did read the quests, did see the deed, did heed Andreg's warning and finish all "underway" quests, and still fell into a broken deed state. . . because at no point is it made clear that the deed contains quests that Andreg never even offered to us. We finish all the quests he gave us (as directed), and naturally (per long-established precedent) assume the deed will be finished/completable at a later time via quests bestowed by others.

--H

[whheydt]

It would make more sense to put the missing quests on the Andreg that is still standing outside the Slade of Shadows even after he's. . . well, I'll leave that out since it's a spoiler.

Yes...except that after what you're referring to, he isn't there any more.

There is, on Bullroarer, a reflecting pool at the Scout Camp. I haven't checked, but I wonder if you can call up Andreg and complete the quests through that....

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

[Hurin]

Yes...except that after what you're referring to, he isn't there any more.

Sorry, but you are incorrect. He is still there. Both on live and on Bullroarer. Standing where he gives you the slade quests. I wish you would confirm things for yourself before telling people they are wrong. I would not have made such a suggestion had I not noticed that he is still there long after. . . er. . . what happens to him in the instanced content.

He's still there on two of my toons, on both live and on Bullroarer.

[Trilwych]

If this is true it is a recent change, the change that many have been asking for.

Thankfully I did not miss out on any of the quests. But I did try and let a kinnie do as you are saying when I went through with my second toon. He could not get the quests at that time.

No. Don't quote out of context. It doesn't help.

Sorry, but it's not true.

A few days ago, I hooked up with two individuals who had not yet done any part of the quest. I was in the fellowship, and with them from the very beginning, when they got their whistles, summoned their two Andregs, and started the series. I followed them all the way through all 7 quests for the deed. At the proper points, they were able to get the quests, but I was not. Their Andregs totally ignored me. They tried to share the quests, but were told I was ineligible.

Disappointing. If anyone claims to be able to do this, then please be very, very specific about how you were able to do so, what your level was, what the state of your own quest line is, etc. If this works, I suspect it is limited to those who have hit continue, but did not turn in the final item.

There was no change--you guys missed the point of my post by quoting out of context and not reading the whole thing. The point is not turning in that "continue" quest. So my post and all the previous ones it cites are correct; don't confuse the issue.



As for a design fix on Bullroarer... I just assume it will be impossible to complete this deed on Andreg even after a certain point due to (spoiler) as Hurin and whheydt mentioned. Now the reflecting pool is a very interesting idea, but doesn't that require an instance? Shifting to another NPC seems like a logical choice...

[LadyDena]

So, no mention of a fix for this at all in the new patch notes.

It's pretty safe to say that Turbine absolutely does not care what players think.

Keep fighting the good fight, Turbine. Maybe one day these pesky customer people will leave you alone, to make all the horrible decisions you want, and stop spending their money on your games.

No, and after that developer's flippant response days ago I wouldn't expect a fix.

They tried to make a 'statement' with this Gotcha quest, except that statement is lost behind horrible implementation and even worse quest text descriptioni. In order to fix a problem one must first admit that there IS a problem, and if they are even willing to do that there can be no fix. Be sure take stuff like this into consideration come december twentieth.

[Apparently]

Hey, Berephon:

How am I supposed to maintain a "bee-line to Saeradan" as you mentioned, to get all the quests, when Andreg keeps running off and aggroing things I'm trying to avoid?

Please let me know. Thanks.


Amended: I think I have all the quests now. Maybe. Even after reading all these pages and more besides, I'm not entirely sure I'm not in the process of screwing this up.

So fine, okay, leave the quest line the way it is.

JUST LET ME KILL ANDREG WHEN IT'S DONE.

And take off that "Ally of" title, 'cause he ain't no friend of mine. K?


Amended again: Apparently, when Andreg kills the things he aggroes against my will, the count goes toward my quests... and when he dies in the process, I can feign death until the mob goes away and then resummon him, no harm done.

So effectively, I can let Andreg do his own freakin' quests.

I'm fairly sure it goes against the spirit of the game to let the Ranger I'm supposedly "helping" die... but hey, whatever works, right?

Still. Until I can kill him myself, I will not be satisfied. The rest of y'all can go after Saruman; Andreg's head is MINE.


--Apparently, milestoning to Galtrev because I don't dare go repair armor in Gravenwood lest I screw up The One Quest Of Power.

[shadow317]

+1 to the unhappy customers list

Same issue, wasnt giving anymore quests, didn't notice deed, turned it it. At least make it so you can pick up the extra's from someone else!

[Blaize_EU]

AFAIC, u can only grab the quests from another Andreg if you haven't finished the chain.

Tried this with a kinnie yesterday: you definitely cannot pick up the quests from someone else's Andreg if you've handed in the end quest yourself, which is a damn nuisance.

Please do something about this devs, I really hate having a deed I know I'll never be able to finish...

[FuzFuz]

It would make more sense to put the missing quests on the Andreg that is still standing outside the Slade of Shadows even after he's. . . well, I'll leave that out since it's a spoiler.

While I understand why Turbine generally keeps silent most of the time (while we aren't "five year-olds," the vast majority of the community behaves as though we are), and I don't expect a public response, and I don't want Berephon to appear to appease those who have been. . . er, less than charitable in this thread. . .

I do hope that Berephon by now sees that his initial impression of the root cause here was incorrect. Rather than inattentive players, the root cause is a deed that was put into the game with only the target audience of beta testers already aware of this chain's mechanics in mind. Unfortunately the red warning text at the point of no return only makes sense and conveys a proper warning to those who actually would not need it. To everyone else, it merely says: "If you have any quests from me currently underway, finish them first." It does not explain that there might be other quests from Andreg out there (which are listed on the deed) that you will not be able to obtain, thus locking you out of completing the deed forever.

I realize it's just a deed. But as time passes and I complete this on my alts, it becomes more and more annoying that I will never have this deed completed on my main which I hoped one day to be my "deed completionist" toon. And, to be blunt, the dismissive response from Berephon makes the "burn" here somewhat worse. It should be clear by now that the problem was not with people not reading, but with the quest line's design and the fact that Andreg's "red text warning," in context and with no prior knowledge, does not actually convey critical information to those not already familiar with this quest line's mechanics and potential pitfalls (via beta testing or being the designer!).

I really hope that Turbine/Berephon reverse course here, see how this quest line operates from the perspective of an average player without prior knowledge, and implement a fix for all the people who did read the quests, did see the deed, did heed Andreg's warning and finish all "underway" quests, and still fell into a broken deed state. . . because at no point is it made clear that the deed contains quests that Andreg never even offered to us. We finish all the quests he gave us (as directed), and naturally (per long-established precedent) assume the deed will be finished/completable at a later time via quests bestowed by others.

--H

This.
I have the same problem and it's very, very annoying.
It's a poorly designed mechanic.

[GodzillaX8]

I wish a dev would respond to this beyond "READ THE QUESTS, LOL"

Even if they just came in and confirmed that they absolutely do not care about the players or their concerns, and that they will never change this horribly designed quest chain to allow us to complete it.

[CGDrakken]

There is, on Bullroarer, a reflecting pool at the Scout Camp. I haven't checked, but I wonder if you can call up Andreg and complete the quests through that....

That pool only offers the instances again I just looked today. It's a real shame they don't fix that. They tried something new and it was poorly implemented, plain and simple. As many have stated it goes far beyond carefully reading the quest, they read it had no open quests at the time and went on. They talk about other new features they will be adding why not talk of this new way to get quests?

[.44]

Andreg had no open quests, had no quest ring on his head. How was I supposed to know there were hidden quests out there? Now had the red text been coded to tell you that you had not done his quests and should look for more I'd be less ticked, but since it said nothing of the kind I feel gypped.

[Lord_Gort]

This is something that Turbine needs to fix. Allow Andreg to offer missing quests at a later time. Must be fixed.

[Arachnella]

Having done this deed recently I also can say that the wording in the original starting quest is anything but clear. Not being a native English speaker I realize that I may at times misread things, so I usually take care to read and re-read quest texts, and still, hadn't I spotted this thread before and hadn't I known about the possible pitfalls with this deed, I would certainly think that my MAIN goal would be to get to the Rohirrim camp. The necessity of summoning Andreg, and more importantly, of doing quests for him on the way, was not something that I would pick up from the bestower quest text.

On the other hand, I do realize also that the developers cannot (and should not) oversimplify things, nor should they make their quest texts, which I generally enjoy, bland and blatant. Still, I would say that for this particular starting quest, some clarifying is in order.

Another problem lies with the quest/deed design. I was lucky, i.e. I was able to complete the deed without looking up the coordinates, just from having a general idea about how this deed works, but as many others pointed earlier, the expectation of the developers that the player would go in a straight line from point A to point B is poorly founded. Especially this concerns killing quests: in order to kill 10 critters of one kind and 10 critters of another kind, one has to wander, look around, move to a completely different direction, kill other mobs on the way.

Another gripe: the sequence of some of Andreg's quests was... bewildering. So, I move with him to the spot where I should collect some corrupted remains (that was third or fourth quest on the way, I don't remember now), and only after *that* he tells me that he wants me to kill some dark wolves? Excuse me? I've already killed at least half a dozen of them before we got here, and you decided to ask me to kill them only here? That was plain silly.

So yes, I add my voice to the general chorus asking to revise this deed yet again.
The purpose of this quest and deed is not clearly worded, the sequence of quests might be thought out better, as well as their particular trigger spots. It's easy to see how other people had problems with it.

The mere existence of this deed is not something that people would normally spot straight away. Upon entering a new area, a player is usually literally showered with new deeds, only the last of which is shown when one clicks that little torch icon.
The lack of "Continue later" button on the infamous warning panel with red text is also a HUGE oversight: the player is not offered any choice.

I would like to see more of such "mobile quest hubs" in the future, and hopefully the quest designers will take into account this collective feedback on design of this pilot deed.

[RicardoFurriel]

Wait... Is there anything wrong with the deed? I thought the problem was the reading/comprehension skills (or lack of) of the players.

Wasn't this a reward for those who read the quests?

[Siegfriedpf]

I must say, though-that I did read the quest descriptions and did not rush to the end. I took some side trips when I saw something of interest and picked up the quests as they came available. However, I still managed to miss two--not by not completing them, but apparently by not having the NPC traverse the right spot to activate the quest ring. That, I think is more of an issue--if you are going to use this mechanic, have him path in such a way that either he hits all his activations, or put items of interest that would induce you to walk over to it and then activate the quest.

[Arachnella]

...or put items of interest that would induce you to walk over to it and then activate the quest.

Now that's an excellent idea.

[Harlinator]

I must say, though-that I did read the quest descriptions and did not rush to the end. I took some side trips when I saw something of interest and picked up the quests as they came available. However, I still managed to miss two--not by not completing them, but apparently by not having the NPC traverse the right spot to activate the quest ring. That, I think is more of an issue--if you are going to use this mechanic, have him path in such a way that either he hits all his activations, or put items of interest that would induce you to walk over to it and then activate the quest.

I really liked this new mechanic. However, adding something in game to let players know where to go would be helpful. The NPC could even start saying "colder" or "warmer".....ehem. Sieg's idea here of using 'items of interest' is a good one and is an existing mechanic....

[Erlessa]

Wait... Is there anything wrong with the deed? I thought the problem was the reading/comprehension skills (or lack of) of the players.

Wasn't this a reward for those who read the quests?

The quest warns you about unfinished quests, not about quests you didn't even pick up. I got 4 or 5 of the lot and finished them and didn't get any more. I assumed the deed might be continued somehow else, with perhaps some other NPC. Nothing warned me about the fact that there might be quests I didn't even get.

[Hurin]

The quest warns you about unfinished quests, not about quests you didn't even pick up. I got 4 or 5 of the lot and finished them and didn't get any more. I assumed the deed might be continued somehow else, with perhaps some other NPC. Nothing warned me about the fact that there might be quests I didn't even get.

I think Ricardo was being facetious/sarcastic. But you're exactly right (and I think he agrees with you).

[RicardoFurriel]

I think Ricardo was being facetious/sarcastic. But you're exactly right (and I think he agrees with you).

You're right and I agree with you Erlessa.

PS: Thanks for the negative rep lol. Some people who initially replied to this thread (like they do to almost every thread) never expected it to go this long. And when proved wrong they just can't let it go).

Lol. Keep it up. And you're welcome.

[MarkoftheRealm]

The deed is specifically there to list the quests needed to complete it. It was added because people in Beta were complaining about not knowing whether they found all the discoverables (which are completely optional and do not affect the division quest deed) or not. I am beginning to regret adding it.

There are only three discoverables, and the quest clearly indicates you cannot complete the discoverables after completing the main quest. This is no different than Annuminas. It also clearly indicates what route to follow (basically bee-line to the quest guide, which crosses the discoverable hotspots for all quests).

I cannot emphasize more to READ THE QUESTS. If you don't, then you miss what the game is all about and miss any guidance and instruction. That's not going to change.

Wow! From this response, a customer could almost get the impression this was put in the game intentionally in such a way that people would mess up. Then a dev could come on and be all condescending and shout about how players who don't "READ THE QUESTS" deserve being punished. This, despite the fact that the way it's set up is somewhat misleading and could certainly be mis-read. I've always had the highest respect for Berephon and am just going to put this down to him/her having a bad day and taking it out on the customers.

I did it just fine on my main, but when I was bringing my primary alt through, I accidentally clicked on the wrong button even though I had read and knew about the problems. Luckily I knew not to turn it in, but I found a player with an Andreg and so was able to use his npc to complete.

Not sure why so many people in this thread are really getting such joy out of other people getting locked out of quests, but some of the posts show nothing but pure schadenfreude at other player's misfortunes.

[Marswarlord]

I posted this in another thread.

Re: Tracking an Old Goat deed

After I got the warning message (which I did read, so I "passed" that part, I was dragging Andreg around trying to get the other 2 quests I didn't have yet, beofre completing a Dark and Lonely Forest. I right clicked to see if he had any other quests to give me and lagged, briefly. After this was over, Andreg was gone and the whistle was gone. The quest panel showed me as complete needing to talk to Saeradan, which I have not done yet. Can I find someone that still has Andreg to get the other 2 quests or I am just screwed?

This is broken because accidents can screw you. And the GM that I got was rude, 3 times. Told me it works as designed and file a bug report.