What is new in the store, armors?????

[Garreth_MacLeod]

This is not good in my opinion.

I've bought my fair share of items from the store, mostly cosmetic items. But with the store moving in this direction maybe I'll just hang on to my money because I'm not sure I want to support this p2w store anymore.

[Himodhur]

Meh, not really concerned. While it has the potential to take the game in a bad direction, there is NO way I would pay TP for kind of ###### gear that I'd outlevel in an hour.

[Moondog548]

I don't disagree with that, Stavro, but I think this is the worst example so far. Or rather, the best example that things are heading in the wrong direction.

Nobody really gives a #### about low level gear. You blow through those levels so fast that it's pointless. If morons want to spend real money on it, go for it. The problem is that this is directly going against something Turbine said would not happen, and can easily snowball into something that will drastically affect further parts of the game.

Stat tomes, legacies, store morale pots, etc...that's all grey area stuff, at least to me. I don't give a #### if the character you run in a raid does or doesn't have stat tomes, store morale pots, or whatever. They have minimal impact in the best of situations, and absolutely no impact in most situations.

Armor, though, can be different if this ever reaches the late stages of the game. And that's the problem...Turbine has been having a number of self-control issues lately, and coupled with their previous track record on these types of things, it's a very bad sign.

I have given out too much rep in the past 24 hrs.

[tenineteen]

I would strongly encourage everyone to give Turbine one chance here, let them see what the reaction has been, and let them gracefully back away, no harm done. I think the work they have done on one of the better MMOs in recent memory deserves that.

Please back away, Turbine.

[Bicyclerepairman]

Turbine has always lied about the store and it not being p2w so this should not come as any surprise. Remember that they said it would only be fluff at the beginning, nothing gamealtering? Well, they lied. And they saw ppl paying for stuff and continue playing regardless so they upped the stuff more and more.

Within a year you will be able to buy top-tier weapons and classitems that trumphs the ones available ingame, mark my words.

[StavroMuellerBeta]

OMG, a vague reference to "lower 20s", when I said its roughly level 25 gear, yeah, huge difference (if any) there. Yeesh.

I think you need to stop acting like Sapience said "It's useable at 20!"

Just wanted to bring this post over from the other thread, in case that one gets deleted.

Let's just agree to disagree until it actually hits the store. If the gear is only equippable at level 21 or above, I will publicly apologize, so long as you agree to do the same if it's equippable at level 20 or below. Deal?

[Firemane0]

Until I can see something that sets a level to the tiers I am going to reserve comments about how unbalancing it is.
I can however say, after starting on new servers, gearing strictly from quest items and drops can suck for a new player and auction house pricing for lowbie gear (sub 15) is very over priced compared to what a player in that level range can possibly afford.

In short, player greed is partially responsible for this. I base that on 300-500+ silver for level 7 items in the ah most of the time.

[Vellem]

Haven't seen this mentioned yet though I thought I would bring it up. You know what else there is a distinct lack of at lower levels? Gold. I mean, at lower levels there is just never enough gold to get what I want. I remember at level 15 I was so excited that I was going to be able to buy a house. Imagine my disappointment when I got to the housing guy and saw that a deluxe house cost over 7 gold! I didn't have that kinda coin on me but I really really really wanted a house. If only I had more options to get that gold at that low of a level. I could buy all those neat things I wanted but just couldn't afford. More options is always a good thing I think so I think it's only natural that gold be added to the store as well.






(Not so much of a stretch of the imagination anymore, is it?)

[Brinswith]

Former CM LOTRO EU customer, but you can add me to the cancelled list, have paid and played for this game every month since pre-launch early access. Bought every expansion. No longer, armour in the store is and was one of the last promises Turbine made that remained unbroken with regards to the store. They have lost my custom.

I filled out the exit survey but was met with dismay when asked what would bring me back and one of the option was to make it microtransaction only and no subscription. that they think something like that is what the majority of the people leaving want goes against everything i have ever read or heard on both the forums and in game.

N.B, There was no option at all to suggest a decrease in store activity would bring me back to the game and so i had to select that nothing would bring me back. It seems that even the exit questionnaire is biased in favour of the store.

thankyou all and good luck. Elle

[Lestache]

Amazingly, Thomas Nast drew a cartoon about this very issue 140 years ago.



The tiger is the Store.

The mauled corpses are the people who protested the lines that the Store previously crossed, and their demises may or may not have bothered you.

Guess what the tiger is looking at? He's looking at you, and the line that you don't think will be crossed is next.

(The fat guy is WB, and I guess all the Romans looking on are shareholders. This game isn't for your entertainment, folks - it's for theirs.)

[dadiro95]

thats crazy..........
Wow... turbine focus on content not store for rich kids

[WickedWitch99]

Please note for below numbers that characters leave intro zone at level 6/7 and first level crafted armour is level 7.
First column only pertains to gear between level 7 and 10.

LANDROVAL AH POSTINGS JANUARY 13, 2012, 7.45/8PM EST

Light armor
Level: 0/10 11/20 21/30 31/40 41/50 51/60 61/70 >70
Chest 0 10 4 13 13 4 0 5
Cloak 0 2 3 4 11 6 1 13
Feet 0 0 4 1 2 3 2 0
Hands 1 1 0 3 3 6 1 1
Head 2 0 0 2 5 3 0 15
Legs 2 1 0 1 4 2 0 2
Should 0 1 0 1 4 2 0 2

Medium armor
Level: 0/10 11/20 21/30 31/40 41/50 51/60 61/70 >70
Chest 1 3 7 14 16 0 0 9
Feet 0 6 4 4 1 1 0 0
Hands 0 9 2 1 0 1 1 6
Head 0 8 8 0 2 1 0 9
Legs 0 3 3 0 2 7 1 6
Should 0 4 6 2 4 4 0 3

Heavy armor
Level: 0/10 11/20 21/30 31/40 41/50 51/60 61/70 >70
Chest 0 14 9 6 12 4 6 7
Feet 0 3 3 2 3 7 0 6
Hands 0 3 1 2 4 5 14 3
Head 0 6 1 0 2 6 1 2
Legs 0 2 0 1 3 5 2 7
Should 0 0 2 2 1 4 7 2




And it's very convenient that in the stat window of each class in the game, two out of MIGHT, WILL, and VITALITY are mentioned as very important/important to increasee through armour stats, when the now to be introduced armor in the TP store gives all of those. No low-level gear in game does that.


spaces don't show, hope tables still bring across the data.

[Abiyah]

The bottom of this slippery slope, folks, is that everything will be available in the store. Doesn't matter the level or stats, whether quest reward, raid-gear, guild teals, jewellery or consummables, it'll be sold in the store. Subscriptions will soon be a thing of the past, so no more free TP for VIPs (how they'll handle that for lifers, well, all in all, the number isn't really that big). And TP will be the quest/raid rewards, but it will never, ever be enough to cover the complete sets of armor, weapons and jewellery needed for every 2-5 levels, plus all the consummables (and let's not forget the mounts-- how can we when there's eleventy-hundred different skins to buy).

As soon as this player base is gone (and yeah, it just may well be a concerted effort to get the "old-timers" out of the way), there will be a player base whose only knowledge of the game is that there's a store where you go to spend your rewards to get the gear you need-- and oh yeah, it'll cost out of the pocket, too. "Dad, I need your credit card!!"

This is what microtransaction looks like, and we're being introduced to it one small step at a time-- and the steps are getting bigger.

[DarkCntry]

So, no one has any concrete information over what Sapience has said, yet somehow these items will be the doom of the game...

I'd go read other games' forums, but they read exactly the same way as this one.

[Brinswith]

So, no one has any concrete information over what Sapience has said, yet somehow these items will be the doom of the game...

I'd go read other games' forums, but they read exactly the same way as this one.

you clearly have missed the point as to why people are annoyed. This is statted armour, armour WITH stats. Something that was expressly stated would never be put in the store. The level and how high the stats are is irrelevant to be honest it's the fact that you can now buy armour for cash. Which is pay to win anyway you look at it.

[Thorsvin]

So, no one has any concrete information over what Sapience has said, yet somehow these items will be the doom of the game...

I'd go read other games' forums, but they read exactly the same way as this one.

And it's really a shame because this forum/game used to be better and more mature than the alternatives.

[cossieuk]

So, no one has any concrete information over what Sapience has said, yet somehow these items will be the doom of the game...

I'd go read other games' forums, but they read exactly the same way as this one.

Turbine have made numerous promises over the past few years, including

LOTRO will not go F2P
No stats on gear in the store.
Convenience on advantage
The next expac will have a new PvMP map
Nothing will change for VIP's you will still have everything you have now. (Relic removal is now gone)
You wont need to use the store as it will be fluff or stuff you can get in-game. (I am looking at you stat tomes)
Content releases will be on a similar schedule as DDO.

There are more but I think I have made my point. This is the straw that is breaking the camels back. The last in a list of too many broken promises and some have had enough.

[DarkCntry]

you clearly have missed the point as to why people are annoyed. This is statted armour, armour WITH stats. Something that was expressly stated would never be put in the store. The level and how high the stats are is irrelevant to be honest it's the fact that you can now buy armour for cash. Which is pay to win anyway you look at it.

I don't remember them saying that armor with stats would never be in the store, only that armor from raiding and/or other major items would not.

And it's really a shame because this forum/game used to be better and more mature than the alternatives.

It was, and parts still are...the problem is when people start lining up to leap off buildings because things aren't what they want.

[Dokomo33]

And it's really a shame because this forum/game used to be better and more mature than the alternatives.

Are you affiliated with Turbine in anyway? Because the picture you submitted to the Cosmetics thread (http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...05#post5927805) is the same one that is in promotional pics for the new statted cash-shop armor (http://www.lotro.com/lotrostorenew).

Is Turbine really sinking this low, or do you just have a great sense of humor? If so, well played.

[CroutonCabbage]

Are you affiliated with Turbine in anyway? Because the picture you submitted to the Cosmetics thread (http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...05#post5927805) is the same one that is in promotional pics for the new statted cash-shop armor (http://www.lotro.com/lotrostorenew).

Is Turbine really sinking this low, or do you just have a great sense of humor?

Nah he'll be joking.

[DarkCntry]

Turbine have made numerous promises over the past few years, including

Ah yes, 'promises'...

LOTRO will not go F2P

As I remember it, the statement was more akin to "currently there are no plans for F2P", not that "Hey, there will never be F2P, we promise"

No stats on gear in the store.

I do not recall that ever being stated.

Convenience on advantage

Shown again and again that this is ultimately a subjective viewpoint. Nothing in the store is required to play (outside the actual quest packs/expansions)

The next expac will have a new PvMP map

A small PR release is hardly what I call a promise, if it were then we'd really be in some serious issues with a lot of companies out there doing this. Things do end up changing.

Nothing will change for VIP's you will still have everything you have now. (Relic removal is now gone)

Relic removal isn't just a VIP thing, and using that information, nothing has changed for me.

You wont need to use the store as it will be fluff or stuff you can get in-game. (I am looking at you stat tomes)

Stat tomes aren't required to play the game, and they are obtainable in-game. Even if their drop rate is tiny.

Content releases will be on a similar schedule as DDO.

Well, with the amount of whinging and complaining, as well as the migration of the EU side of things, I'll gladly cut them slack. I'm happy with the content released and the rate at which it is. Of course, that's my opinion.

There are more but I think I have made my point. This is the straw that is breaking the camels back. The last in a list of too many broken promises and some have had enough.

The only point you made is that people have such a massive complex that if Turbine says something, it's an immediate promise and if it doesn't happen they've lied. And consequently, if Turbine adds something to the store they are automatically money-grubbing and greedy.

[Brinswith]

I don't remember them saying that armor with stats would never be in the store, only that armor from raiding and/or other major items would not.



It was, and parts still are...the problem is when people start lining up to leap off buildings because things aren't what they want.

i refer you to the following article, posted on Massively, Jul 9th 2010 10:30AM by Justin Olivetti

http://massively.joystiq.com/2010/07...-with-turbine/

specifically the paragraph, "I expressed the general player concern over whether the store will give the moneybags-player too much of a leg up over others. I was told that they're being careful not to offer any unbalancing buffs or items -- for example, Turbine decided from the start that the store would not sell gear with any stats attached."

[Link64]

That's the intention. As others have mentioned, it's not top tier gear, there is better available through game play.

I remember when we were told the store items were not advantage, just convenience. Do you really expect us to believe you (Turbine) aren't going to move on to higher and higher level gear, leading ultimately to the selling of raid gear in the store? After all, it's just so gosh-darned convenient to buy your raid gear than earn it. We're complaining about it now and we're going to keep complaining about until it is removed from the store. This is the kind of #### that kills MMO's.

It's lower level gear. Many players have given us feedback that there is a scarcity of gear on the AH at these levels and they wanted an alternative. We're trying to accomodate that.
So, I applaud your decision to kick start the gear market on your server. Options are what it's all about.

First off, I don't buy the premise of feedback on scarcity of gear. There are plenty of issues that have gotten more attention, had more feedback, and have been completely ignored (some I agree with and some I don't). I guarantee there are going to be more people posting against this action by an order of magnitude then all the posts about gear scarcity (we're likely already there with just this thread). You can tell us it's only low level all day long. We don't believe you. We know that you (Turbine) have flat out lied to us with many of your descriptions about what would and wouldn't be in the store. I normally side with Turbine against the nay-sayers on various issues but this is indefensible. You have no credibility to tell us that this will only apply to low level gear.

Oh yes, options are what it's all about. Kinda like the options we have with stat tomes right? We either buy the ones we want in the store or else spend a lifetime trying to find one that will drop in game and hope like hell we win the roll for it. Yeah that's a great option. But the option to circumvent crafters and game content to get gear? That's full of fail. The whole point of gear is to provide rewards and upgrades to your character for doing the in game content. It's supposed to keep us busy collecting shiny things until the next batch of new content comes. You say it's not gonna go that far, that it's only low level but again, we don't believe you. Why should we believe anything Turbine says about their intentions for the store?

[Vellem]

I don't remember them saying that armor with stats would never be in the store, only that armor from raiding and/or other major items would not.



It was, and parts still are...the problem is when people start lining up to leap off buildings because things aren't what they want.

I know I shouldn't respond to you because I know your game is to come into certain threads and stir the pot up by starting arguments and ultimately getting the thread closed so new threads with the same topic cannot be started but proving you wrong was just too much to resist (now I know a little how Frodo felt trying to resist the power of the ring.)

I expressed the general player concern over whether the store will give the moneybags-player too much of a leg up over others. I was told that they're being careful not to offer any unbalancing buffs or items -- for example, Turbine decided from the start that the store would not sell gear with any stats attached. There will, however, be purchasable tomes that give your character a one-time bump in a particular stat (such as vitality), but these bonuses are more designed to aid a low-level character than a level-capped one.

From:http://massively.joystiq.com/2010/07...-with-turbine/

[DarkCntry]

i refer you to the following article, posted on Massively, Jul 9th 2010 10:30AM by Justin Olivetti

http://massively.joystiq.com/2010/07...-with-turbine/

specifically the paragraph, "I expressed the general player concern over whether the store will give the moneybags-player too much of a leg up over others. I was told that they're being careful not to offer any unbalancing buffs or items -- for example, Turbine decided from the start that the store would not sell gear with any stats attached."

Yes, and as I said, things change. Priorities change that require changes in the view of how the game is to be run....much like the whole "no F2P" for LOTRO.

However, there's still the fact that there's no promise that that gear would never come to the store.