What is new in the store, armors?????

[Zed2]

First, define pay to win.

Second, what has been added to the store that could be seen as 'pay to win' in the general definition.

If you define pay to win as adding items that create a gap between what players can get in-game and what can be purchased, skewing that the purchased items are better, then no...Turbine hasn't done that.

Of course, I'm going to wait for those few people to chime in about how I'm defending Turbine and you should ignore what I say.

There are a number of things that you can only buy in the Turbine store... relic removal scrolls is one example, another is the stat tomes, and now they are starting to add armour with stats. Yes, it is definitely pay-to-win. Anyone who disagrees is either in denial and not very observant.

[DarkCntry]

There are a number of things that you can only buy in the Turbine store... relic removal scrolls is one example, another is the stat tomes, and now they are starting to add armour with stats. Yes, it is definitely pay-to-win. Anyone who disagrees is either in denial and not very observant.

Neither the relic removal scrolls or the stat tomes are required, if they are anything, they are gameplay aids and nothing more. Relic changes made the need for an in-game relic removal system rather obsolete, and honestly I bet that if Turbine didn't leave the legacy relics in-game they would've removed the system all-together. Stat tomes, and their benefits, are negligible at best. Further that, Tomes *can* be received in-game without a purchase in the store, albeit the drop rates are low.

I could easily say the same exact thing about anyone who disagrees with what I say, but I generally don't stifle someone's opinion even if it doesn't match mine.

[The_Legacy]

I have been defending Turbine in almost every thread I have wrote in... But this is enough.

Atleast in Sweden there is a saying 'Start with a needle end with a Silver spoon' ish.

It doesn't sound that bad with low level armors... But thinking behind those words and see what will happen in lower levels... And the constant fear that Turbine will do better armors for up to level 40, 50, 60, 70 OMG you can buy your armor and buy desiered Stats for them having an armor with +2000 Morale/Power and +200 in every attribute and more as long as you have $.

I mean, if Turbine is going against what we though there where never to do and sell Stat-gears in store, even if it's for low-levels. Then in a half a year Turbine will say 'Players demand that they wan't easier attanable epic loot, so we put them in store'.

NO! Please no! Turbine, I love this game! You have brought us a wonderfull game and we have a wonderfull community. We are true to Lotr and Lotro we wan't to stick around as long as this game is still kicking but that doesn't mean you should be doing Sepuku.

[BirdofHermes]

Is LOTRO turning into pay2win?

No.
It's already been pay2win for nearly a year now.

[Ardineck]

"We will absolutely never sell grades. You will always have to earn them."

"We hear from some students and parents that kindergarten and first and second grades are tough, so we'll let them buy Bs and Cs, but hey, we're not selling them As. That would be terrible."

Three months from now...

"We got great response from students and parents that grades are now higher. Since our grade incentive program is working, we got the go-ahead to expand it. A grades are now available and for a limited time, 20% off! Take advantage of this great sale!"

Three months later...

"Studies have shown that some students prefer grade incentives when available at an early age. The Warner Bros. School District is happy to announce that Turbine High School will offer the program for all students. Since it is an early stage, only B and C grades are available for purchase. WBSD wants to ensure alumni that there are NO plans to EVER offer A grades. We promise."

[JLG3247]

"We will absolutely never sell grades. You will always have to earn them."

"We hear from some students and parents that kindergarten and first and second grades are tough, so we'll let them buy Bs and Cs, but hey, we're not selling them As. That would be terrible."

Three months from now...

"We got great response from students and parents that grades are now higher. Since our grade incentive program is working, we got the go-ahead to expand it. A grades are now available and for a limited time, 20% off! Take advantage of this great sale!"

Three months later...

"Studies have shown that some students prefer grade incentives when available at an early age. The Warner Bros. School District is happy to announce that Turbine High School will offer the program for all students. Since it is an early stage, only B and C grades are available for purchase. WBSD wants to ensure alumni that there are NO plans to EVER offer A grades. We promise."

How long before your post (and this reply) gets removed for some terribly self-serving reason, I wonder?

+1! Very clever!

[DorianFalkenmond]

Will I get an email when the raid armor is in the shop, Turbine.. so I do not miss it?

Please..

[Zed2]

Neither the relic removal scrolls or the stat tomes are required, if they are anything, they are gameplay aids and nothing more. Relic changes made the need for an in-game relic removal system rather obsolete, and honestly I bet that if Turbine didn't leave the legacy relics in-game they would've removed the system all-together. Stat tomes, and their benefits, are negligible at best. Further that, Tomes *can* be received in-game without a purchase in the store, albeit the drop rates are low.

I could easily say the same exact thing about anyone who disagrees with what I say, but I generally don't stifle someone's opinion even if it doesn't match mine.

Really, relic removal scrolls are not required? All of the guys I game with spend the majority of their TP on relic removal scrolls... and these are people that are trying to avoid spending TP. I guess if you have relics galore you could afford to not do relic removals.

How can you say that stat tomes are negligible... now we have the option to get +70 to all stats using Turbine Store tomes... how is that negligible???

Tomes *can* be received in-game... ROFLMAO... how many tomes have you seen drop?

[Kammila]

Neither the relic removal scrolls or the stat tomes are required, if they are anything, they are gameplay aids and nothing more. Relic changes made the need for an in-game relic removal system rather obsolete, and honestly I bet that if Turbine didn't leave the legacy relics in-game they would've removed the system all-together. .

I don't see how it was made obsolete. They made the changes purely to make money. I bet if you ran a poll close on 90% would like relics to be returned when max level LI's are deconned as they used to be.

[Coyote503]

I don't mind the armor, but the second they sell armor that is as good or better than end game gear you can consider me gone...

If they put as much effort into the game a they did the store...

Cas

[DarkCntry]

Really, relic removal scrolls are not required? All of the guys I game with spend the majority of their TP on relic removal scrolls... and these are people that are trying to avoid spending TP. I guess if you have relics galore you could afford to not do relic removals.

The changes to the relic system makes obtaining relics easier than killing a caveclaw. I've purchased maybe one scroll and that was to unslot one of my legacy relics, to which I later deconned.

If people purchase relic removal scrolls they are doing so of their own volition, they aren't being forced to do it.

How can you say that stat tomes are negligible... now we have the option to get +70 to all stats using Turbine Store tomes... how is that negligible???

Because +70 to all stats amounts to absolutely jack at level cap.

Tomes *can* be received in-game... ROFLMAO... how many tomes have you seen drop?

How many have I personally seen drop? 4. How many can I attest to others having had dropped, a few dozen.

I don't see how it was made obsolete. They made the changes purely to make money. I bet if you ran a poll close on 90% would like relics to be returned when max level LI's are deconned as they used to be.

Of course people would like relics to be returned, it saves them time from having to get new ones. Again, the changes to how relics are obtained basically made the requirement of having to remove them at reforge pointless. You can get a relic that is the same one you had slotted in maybe 20min of slow work.

[RicardoFurriel]

Neither the relic removal scrolls or the stat tomes are required, if they are anything, they are gameplay aids and nothing more. Relic changes made the need for an in-game relic removal system rather obsolete, and honestly I bet that if Turbine didn't leave the legacy relics in-game they would've removed the system all-together. Stat tomes, and their benefits, are negligible at best. Further that, Tomes *can* be received in-game without a purchase in the store, albeit the drop rates are low.

I could easily say the same exact thing about anyone who disagrees with what I say, but I generally don't stifle someone's opinion even if it doesn't match mine.

Just a quick question: do you have any characters at level cap?

[DarkCntry]

Just a quick question: do you have any characters at level cap?

Not that I see why it matters, but yes, I do.

[Lythia]

I think it all depends on peoples' definition of "pay2win." I have only bought 1 relic removal scroll in my game time. Maybe I don't have the best of the best relics, but they seem easy enough to get and build back up.

Never bought a stat tome. I don't really see the point. My hunter's agility is already sky high without even trying. Some people may worry about those numbers and want stupidily high [insert stat here.]

As for the armour, I have 1 toon at level 10ish. I am not going to buy the armour because I level quickily and don't seen the point in buying the TP for it. Finding low level armour on the AH can be near impossible, but they have other options out there. Make your own tailor/metalsmith or the skirm camps. Plenty there. I wouldn't spend the TP on the armour, and I am not sure if I know anyone that will.

The items in the store isn't needed (this is my opinion of course.) I spent most of my TP I have obtained over the last new months on pretty mounts really. And the occasional map to X place. I got 2 toons to 75 without having to buy anything in the store to get me there. *shrug*

This is all my opinion. Feel free to bash it to pieces. I promise not to care.

[The_Legacy]

"We will absolutely never sell grades. You will always have to earn them."

"We hear from some students and parents that kindergarten and first and second grades are tough, so we'll let them buy Bs and Cs, but hey, we're not selling them As. That would be terrible."

Three months from now...

"We got great response from students and parents that grades are now higher. Since our grade incentive program is working, we got the go-ahead to expand it. A grades are now available and for a limited time, 20% off! Take advantage of this great sale!"

Three months later...

"Studies have shown that some students prefer grade incentives when available at an early age. The Warner Bros. School District is happy to announce that Turbine High School will offer the program for all students. Since it is an early stage, only B and C grades are available for purchase. WBSD wants to ensure alumni that there are NO plans to EVER offer A grades. We promise."

Exactly what I mean and a good and funny way to put it.

+1 Rep

[Gwanwyn]

Here's the ultimate irony, how this is a sad mirror from the moral of the original story... the Store is now like the One Ring. It offers the illusion of power with no effort or sacrifice; Boromir, Denethor, Isildur all thought the ring a quick path to victory. How appropriate that TPs are represented by a golden ring.

The wiser, those with more humility and honour - Elrond, Gandlaf, Galadriel, Farimir, Samwise - they all recognised the Ring's treachery as the greed and corruption it truly is and rejected it. Sadly, it seems even the makers of Lord of the Rings online don't believe in real heroes anymore...

Very well said!
+ 1 rep!

[Lainalagos]

Not that I see why it matters, but yes, I do.

Well, your profile shows a lvl 43 hunter...

My profile is open, all my characters, and their gear are visible. I supplemented grind with TP for my 75 Champ's deeds I admit it. It counteracts his humble teal crafted gear. You know, the stuff that used to be good enough for instances.

But that's not the point of the OP. The straw for me was I was looking at an evening of collecting T3 mats to make a set of armour with some nice stats for my lvl22 LM when I saw that someone richer than me doesn't need to bother, they can just burn some cash to get *superior* gear than crit crafted.

[rockmonkeybrand]

Much as I would to condem the said introduction of certain items to the store and a reversal of original policy I can't. the store does keep revenue strong for further game development and also help new players to lotro have options to help boost thier charaters. new that max level is 75 it is a bit of a grind and time investemnt to get up there with the 'big boys'.

We may not like it but it is the way forwards.

Has for 'paytowin' it is more like payandhopetowin

[DarkCntry]

Well, your profile shows a lvl 43 hunter...

It's also the same character I've had since launch. My original goal was to stop the leveling at 42, but after winning a lottery and logging in after Turbine adjusted XP rates, I gained a level.

I will NEVER publicly state to people I don't know what characters I play...there's far too many people who would love to annoy the hell out of me.

[RicardoFurriel]

I will NEVER publicly state to people I don't know what characters I play...there's far too many people who would love to annoy the hell out of me.

Any guess the reasons why? lol

[Macroscian]

I have read 5/11 pages here.

The stuff linked is truly poor stats.

The runspeed doesn't stack with skill like find the patch (I know I had same 21% after equipping some quest prize boot with run speed on my hunter).

The defense tier 1 looks worse than crit lv 7 (frankly I rarely look at this, it's gear you keep for a couple of hours at most, if not skipping it entirely).

[Ardineck]

I politely and humbly request that we be shown the evidence by which this decision was made. Where are these players that cannot get the crafted gear on the AH? If that was really a problem, would not a forum post by a moderator mentioning something like:

"LotRO has always been a wonderful community of players reaching out to other players. Right now, we are hearing that many of the new players coming into the game are having trouble early on acquiring better gear. I know this community is always willing to step up and fill those needs of others (like a clothing drive that many US cities put on EVERY holiday season). Be sure to check the forums for posts about low level characters needing gear and seek them out in game or simply post your unwanted crafting cast asides in greater number on the AH!"

Instead we go right to selling it in the store, breaking a promise. I don't think that what I suspect is truly the case here is hard to guess. I'm willing to allow for the possibility, though.

Check the fan sites WB. Bad move. Back off this like Netflix and FAST. Seriously, there are a great number of people who pay subscriptions that stuck with you SIMPLY because of the subscription. Your F2P model only works if some of the Fs become Ps.

It's okay to admit mistakes, too. "Wow...we were way off base and didn't realize you guys were so passionate, but we should have," would be a great start. I won't hold my breath, though. I have a VERY strong feeling that this decision is not sitting well with the moderators or game developers, either. This smacks of one of those wild hairs that a "suit" gets and forces it down e companies throat because "our customers are dumb and they'll take it" while the hard working people in the cubicles shake their heads in secret, frowns facing the monitors, because like us, they have paychecks they count on.

Turbine game devs and mods...I know you can't show us support and are doing what you're told, but reach out to us in secret on the fan sites. Save us months of torment if things are getting worse. Please...we beg you. The only way they will change is if their profits don't appear like they planned. "Help us...you're our only hope."

Yep, that last line is there on purpose.

[JLG3247]

I politely and humbly request that we be shown the evidence by which this decision was made. Where are these players that cannot get the crafted gear on the AH? If that was really a problem, would not a forum post by a moderator mentioning something like:

"LotRO has always been a wonderful community of players reaching out to other players. Right now, we are hearing that many of the new players coming into the game are having trouble early on acquiring better gear. I know this community is always willing to step up and fill those needs of others (like a clothing drive that many US cities put on EVERY holiday season). Be sure to check the forums for posts about low level characters needing gear and seek them out in game or simply post your unwanted crafting cast asides in greater number on the AH!"

Instead we go right to selling it in the store, breaking a promise. I don't think that what I suspect is truly the case here is hard to guess. I'm willing to allow for the possibility, though.

Check the fan sites WB. Bad move. Back off this like Netflix and FAST. Seriously, there are a great number of people who pay subscriptions that stuck with you SIMPLY because of the subscription. Your F2P model only works if some of the Fs become Ps.

It's okay to admit mistakes, too. "Wow...we were way off base and didn't realize you guys were so passionate, but we should have," would be a great start. I won't hold my breath, though. I have a VERY strong feeling that this decision is not sitting well with the moderators or game developers, either. This smacks of one of those wild hairs that a "suit" gets and forces it down e companies throat because "our customers are dumb and they'll take it" while the hard working people in the cubicles shake their heads in secret, frowns facing the monitors, because like us, they have paychecks they count on.

Turbine game devs and mods...I know you can't show us support and are doing what you're told, but reach out to us in secret on the fan sites. Save us months of torment if things are getting worse. Please...we beg you. The only way they will change is if their profits don't appear like they planned. "Help us...you're our only hope."

Yep, that last line is there on purpose.

Well put. Are you a politician (if so, STOP wasting taxpayer money by playing games and get back to work!)? Another post probably heading for deletion, but rep-tastic!

Edit: maybe they already DID leak us information! Ooh, intrigue! Worth sticking around for! I will not, however, purchase anymore Turbine Points (sorry honey!) until I see if this kind of thing leads us to a certain favorite movie franchise MMO...one that came before PJ's LotR.

[Hrodberht]

Actually, you are the one who stated the armor would likely be level 25. The only conclusion I'm jumping to is the one you already put forth as a possibility.

But as I said earlier, let's agree to disagree until it actually hits the store. If the gear is only equippable at level 21 or above, I will publicly apologize, so long as you agree to do the same if it's equippable at level 20 or below. Deal?

Fair enough. I would agree that selling gear in the store that is clearly superior to what a player could obtain in the game at a given level, if that in fact turns out to be the case, is rather out of line.

[Ardineck]

Well put. Are you a politician (if so, STOP wasting taxpayer money by playing games and get back to work!)? Another post probably heading for deletion, but rep-tastic!

Edit: maybe they already DID leak us information! Ooh, intrigue! Worth sticking around for! I will not, however, purchase anymore Turbine Points (sorry honey!) until I see if this kind of thing leads us to a certain favorite movie franchise MMO...one that came before PJ's LotR.

Nope, not an elected official, though at least my wife thinks I'd be better than any of them out there (shouldn't she, though?). Ha ha.

I just think the principle getting missed by some is that a promise was broken and we are expected to not only think that's not a big deal, but that it was a good idea and an act of benevolence and again, not going to lead to anything else. Put another way:

Your husband or wife recites vows on your wedding day. He or she then says years later, maybe after some kids and a house and car mortgage, "Look, I'm going to date this person because he seems lonely, but it is JUST a date! Don't get all upset or weird about it. Nothing physical. MAYBE a goodnight kiss, that's all."

Ummm, okay? Yeah, that's gonna work out fine, right? At the least, your partner stepped out and broke a promise. At worst, the marriage ends. The point being that the best scenario ends up being a situation with broken trust and you will NEVER know if the other shoe is going to drop. In that situation as well, I am sure there are people that are willing to let that happen and some that think it's perfectly fine and okay. I don't think most people would agree. In fact, many people are too invested in the relationship to just walk away. Time and money and emotions spent...good memories...bad ones that seem like good ones because you went through them together.

Do not go on this date, Turbine. We already feel hurt that you'd even bring this up. You already go out late and text strange numbers (selling the stuff you already sell isn't enough? You take away things in the game by changing mechanics and sell it in the store and now you want us to be happy about this, too?). Is it too late for us? Do you just want to see other people?